The act of infidelity

[Summer Breeze]

this is going to sound so silly, but I never thought much about it...I think that if I had been asked what i would do, I would have said that I would leave ( immediate response) but if I had really thought about it, i may well have aid that I'd try and work things out if the affair ended, but would only stay if things changed drastically

 

i wonder how many people who are newly married really seriously consider their spouse cheating on them? maybe it's seen as something hypothetical that will never happen?

 

Thanks FS. I finished writing my last post as you were posting this. I'm sure you'll read that I don't know anyone who has not discussed it and set it as a boundary. I won't repeat myself thought. I know when I did discuss it with my xH I never in my life thought it would happen. I also remember us having this wonderful talk about how our lives would be. That same time we talked about having kids, his mother who was disabled, life insurances, and all sorts of things. It was natural as we were looking ahead and talking about hopes, dreams and boundaries.

 

Thanks again for your input FS

[Summer Breeze]

I think a person can be in a phase of their life where they may feel uplifted and excited, while in an adventure, as an A.

 

A few years later they may feel deep regret or shame when reflecting back to the period.

 

IMO, this is what can keep the M together. The fact that the WS has repented and shows they wish to proceed w their spouse and M, anew .. and forgiven.

 

 

That is actually an excellent post UF. Thank you. I have always said that I never thought my xH would have cheated on me again. I still sincerely believe that but I knew at the time I could never live with the betrayal and also the lack of trust, even though in my heart I didn't think he'd do it again. The betrayal was such a hurt and issue to me that I couldn't get to the point of considering waiting for his regret.

 

Thank you again.

[Summer Breeze]

Maybe I'm a pessimist... I always consider that a possibility in any relationship and have always had that discussion with anyone I've ever been involved with. I think that not thinking about it, wow, that's like sticking your head in the sand.

I think that there are 10 things that every couple should talk about early on in the relationship. Particularly if you are looking to commit to them on a permanent basis.

1. Communication, are your styles compatible? Do you effectively communicate together, if not, is it fixable (probably not) and are you willing to do the work to fix it if it can be.

2. Time and effort- what do each of you expect from each other

3. Finances- you need to be on the same page here. Even if the other person has made a mess of their finances, and you are excellent at it, it can work as long as you know in advance how you are going to treat finances.

4. Children- this is an issue. Do you want them? Do they? Do you agree? If you don't, someone has to give in... and this is a horrible thing to compromise on.

5. Fidelity- what are your lines? What do you think is cheating? What do they think is cheating? Are there gray areas, what is acceptable to each of you, is there a need or room for compromise and where and how?

6. Family- to what degree do extended families become part of your relationship

7. Life plans and goals- these should mesh at least somewhat.

8. Sexual compatibility. It's more important than some think. An unfullfilling sex life leads to less intimacy, less intimacy leads to a breakdown in communication. Sex isn't just sex, it's what turns friendship into more.

9. Respect. What do you find respectful or disrespectful of your relationship and one another. Where are the lines?

10. Road Trip vacation. You don't really know someone until you have road tripped with them. Try it. You'll know if you can live with them afterwards.

 

Said so much more eloquently than I was able to!

[underwater2010]

If you have been faced infidelity and chosen to stay do you think you compromised your principles?

 

No I have not compromised my principles. I vowed for better or worse. So far (one time only) he has been at his worst. With three kids that adore him and the fact that I love him, I have given him that second chance. Which I believe most people deserve. Would I allow him to stay after a second affair? NO way in hell.

 

Was it a matter of circumstance and/or time softening your thoughts?

 

While time helps, it is more his actions. The times of hurt and sadness get fewer and further between. I do realize there is a chance of a second time, but I know that this time he will not be able to say it has anything to do with me. I have done my work.

 

Is my black or white stance on infidelity the crux of my not blaming the OW in my case and for not shouldering the blame in my A?

 

It circumstance is different. In my case, she was a married mother of three. I guess that I hold her to a higher standard because of this. But I guess it just boils down to the fact that they both were selfish people willing to destroy the lives of 6 great kids. I am lucky in the fact that my FWH is remorseful and shamed by his actions. I feel sorry for the other BS because she is a serial cheater.

[underwater2010]

If a H has just one OW and it lasts a year or he has a couple of ONS with different women over the year, is the act looked at any differently?

 

Yep. With one OW there is an emotional connect (usually). With multiple OW it is just sex.

 

Is one any more forgiveable than the other?

 

I am willing to forgive the one OW only because it is ended and he is working on us. Also he had the option to leave without recourse. With multiple women I would have ended us. It would have put him in the serial cheater spectrum and I would not be able to deal with that.

[underwater2010]

It's my opinion that if you accept a cheating husband back, you are in a sense agreeing to being an other woman.

 

Not at all. It becomes a secondary contract which states in bold that I am willing to work on me, forgive a one time affair as long as you DO NOT have another affair of any kind. There is absolutely no way I am willing to share my man with another woman. It is me or no marriage at all. Please do not even put me in the same class as the OW.

 

Especially since it was behind your back. Why go through the pain of trying to mend that when you can pick yourself up, put yourself back together, and meet another man who you can start fresh with. That's the way I see it.

 

I can see your perspective on leaving to find someone else. That is a valid option for any BS. I am just not willing to destroy my kids life for a one time affair.

 

And you are so right not to blame the other woman. I believe doing that deceives oneself because it distracts the BS from the genuine issue, that their husband betrayed them. Blaming the OW would make it easier to stay, but isn't that in a sense being dishonest with yourself?

 

No it does not make dishonest with myself. In my case she was well aware of my kids and the fact that we were married. She was also married with kids herself. She participated in the deception and therefore deserve part of the blame. That does not make my husband blameless.

[Owl]

To me it is the actual act of infidelity that is unforgivable. And to me it is completely unforgiveable. When people say you never know your reaction till you're faced with it -- that wasn't me. If you have been faced infidelity and chosen to stay do you think you compromised your principles? Was it a matter of circumstance and/or time softening your thoughts?

 

Is my black or white stance on infidelity the crux of my not blaming the OW in my case and for not shouldering the blame in my A?

 

Interesting questions, Summer. I want to point out...I've not read any of the intervening pages of posts, but read your opening post and decided to respond directly to this, so I apologize if things were discussed and I missed.

 

From MY perspective, infidelity is very likely to be unforgiveable.

 

As many have tried to point out in an effort to claim that my viewpoint is invalid, my wife's EA wasn't given the opportunity to become PA.

 

There's a simple reason for that.

 

Once d-day hit, she was all set to fly away to be with him. I drew a line in the sand. I told her point blank that if she left, if she went to him...in effect, if she escalated this from EA to PA especially with the knowledge of how I'd feel about this...it would be OVER between us, irrevokably and irrefutably.

 

I would have filed for divorce and removed her from my life.

 

Since it DIDN'T get to that point, I didn't have the same "mind movies" that many BS's have to deal with. But...I DID have to deal with the fact that she had mentally/emotionally replaced me in her heart with him. Tough enough, let me assure you.

 

But the bottom line is this...I didn't have to compromise my standards, I didn't have to bend my own stance on things...I was able to reconcile without reaching that kind of point.

 

I want to ask a counter-question...but I want to ensure you understand I'm not "calling you out" or attacking first.

 

You note that you feel VERY "black and white" about infidelity...which I can understand as I feel that way too.

 

What I don't get is how you can feel that way...and yet remain in a relationship with someone who was willing to perpetrate that on someone else? What's "different" about your situation that makes his actions acceptable?

 

Again...honest question.

[Spark1111]

Not so for me -- to be 'a victor' ... I decided to act on my right to give my H a taste of his own medicine (after telling him I didn't assure him of fidelity any longer, and reserved the right to have an affair anytime I chose in the future, after H repeatedly had affairs) and after finding OMM, and getting all the signals from him that he was interested in me, I decided his being married was him being the same as me -- a level playing field, as I thought it would have been worse to find a single OM to 'fall in love with' and have a full blown affair with me being a MW. My OM being a married man made him the same as me in my situation.

 

I did not pick a MM to hurt his BS, that was secondary to the fallout of our decision. I DO feel what I did was wrong. She did not deserve to have anyone stealing what was rightfully hers.

 

So you had a revenge affair. Revenge is definitely about seeking empowerment over someone you percieve has stolen your personal power.

 

As for SummerBreeze not tolerating infidelity (I had, several times tolerated it from my H) and then purposefully being with a MM, that to me is as bad as being highly intolerant of a physically abusive man, and then hooking up with one who you knew physically abused family members... it's not good enough to simply say, well as long as he doesn't beat ME, it's all good, I'll turn a blind eye to what wrongdoings he is up to.

 

If being betrayed isn't a form of abuse, I do not know what is.

 

And as often happens in a victim/abuser situation, the victim then goes onto to abuse others if the cycle is not broken.

[Owl]

You won't like my honest answer.

It's because he's not doing it TO me.

It really is that simple. My happiness matters more to me than hers and I love him. Selfish, yes I know.

His actions are acceptable to me because it's not me he's lying to. Do I particularly like the part of him that can lie to her, not as much as I like the rest of him, but I've yet to meet a perfect person without flaws.

 

That's the beauty...doesn't matter whether I like your answer. It was honest, and it's your viewpoint.

 

Fair enough.

 

Doesn't matter whether or not I like it or agree with it. It is what it is. I didn't post the question to dispute any answers...was simply curious how OM/OW manage something that seems incongruous to me. Thanks for responding...curious if others feel the same way you do on this too.

[truthbetold]

I think that for some people, there would always be another woman, it doesn't make them "interchangeable" but the way their life is has set them up to be open to an affair.

In other cases, it's simply the person.

You'll disagree with me, and that's ok, but I really do believe that given the exact right set of circumstances everyone does have it in them to cheat, just as I'm sure in the exact right set of circumstances everyone could do just about anything. The thing is that for many people that exact right set of circumstances never plays out.

I'm not justifying anything or saying it's right, but if a person is honest with themselves, there is some circumstance in which they would. I'm not asking anyone to share, but just to think about that.

 

Very few people in life deserve to be hurt. But not every betrayed spouse is a beautiful person either. Some are pretty vicious and some are manipulative and slimey and downright awful people. People are just people. They aren't all awesome and amazing and get granted a halo simply because they wear the title of wife or husband. Just like the OP isn't necessarily a liar, or cheating on anyone themselves, or hiding anything or a bad person simply because they find themselves in love with someone.

I try really hard not to paint any "role" with a broad brush, because people are so unique and individual that I'd be bound to be wrong at least a good portion of the time.

 

I think saying that you won't stay with someone who cheats on you before it happesn is a hard call to make. I don't think I would, but I don't know what I'd do in that moment if it happened. Him being involved with someone besides me, and of course his wife, on paper, is a dealbreaker for me.

 

I always find it interesting when people INSIST there are those of us in denial that adamantly state it's not going touch our marriage. The "only" way it could happen in your saying a "perfect storm of circumstances" is exactly that. In other words my husband would not be the man he is nor would I be the woman that I am. We wouldn't hold our beliefs that we do and we would have completely different character traits conflict avoiding among them. For us it would mean our faith and relationship with God was not at the center. And it would mean I guess he still couldn't turn me on all these years later. So basically we would have to be different people.

 

But we're not we are who we are. We are well aware that infidelity is out there. We are well aware for us it takes strength of character and our faith. But I also understand since you don't pray or believe in that you would never understand and get this as I do. Even if it weren't for our values and faith we don't want to screw up the best thing that has ever happened to us. We're well aware an affair is nothing more than a series of choices. An attraction only grows if you feed it. If you have boundaries and they're in place, then no the person will not cheat.

 

I don't say all this to start a war. As I said I understand you don't have that belief so if you do not have that higher power being your life rock, and guiding force. If I try to explain in facing temptation a window is ALWAYS left open, it's our human choice in what we do. It's not your belief so it would be foreign to you. I just want to say that you're wrong to say ALL would with the perfect circumstances. You can certainly say "some" or even "most" from YOUR point of view, but you absolutely cannot say ALL without being wrong.

[mercy]

You won't like my honest answer.

It's because he's not doing it TO me.

It really is that simple. My happiness matters more to me than hers and I love him. Selfish, yes I know.

His actions are acceptable to me because it's not me he's lying to. Do I particularly like the part of him that can lie to her, not as much as I like the rest of him, but I've yet to meet a perfect person without flaws.

 

My dad use to say on the first day of school, look around at how a kid treats another, that's how they're going to treat you. So pick your friends carefully.

[Summer Breeze]

If you have been faced infidelity and chosen to stay do you think you compromised your principles?

 

No I have not compromised my principles. I vowed for better or worse. So far (one time only) he has been at his worst. With three kids that adore him and the fact that I love him, I have given him that second chance. Which I believe most people deserve. Would I allow him to stay after a second affair? NO way in hell.

 

Was it a matter of circumstance and/or time softening your thoughts?

 

While time helps, it is more his actions. The times of hurt and sadness get fewer and further between. I do realize there is a chance of a second time, but I know that this time he will not be able to say it has anything to do with me. I have done my work.

 

Is my black or white stance on infidelity the crux of my not blaming the OW in my case and for not shouldering the blame in my A?

 

It circumstance is different. In my case, she was a married mother of three. I guess that I hold her to a higher standard because of this. But I guess it just boils down to the fact that they both were selfish people willing to destroy the lives of 6 great kids. I am lucky in the fact that my FWH is remorseful and shamed by his actions. I feel sorry for the other BS because she is a serial cheater.

 

 

UW had you any thoughts about how you would react before the A happened? Did you think you'd forgive and move forward or did you think that might have been a dealbreaker.

 

Thanks very much for your answers.

[Summer Breeze]

Interesting questions, Summer. I want to point out...I've not read any of the intervening pages of posts, but read your opening post and decided to respond directly to this, so I apologize if things were discussed and I missed.

 

From MY perspective, infidelity is very likely to be unforgiveable.

 

As many have tried to point out in an effort to claim that my viewpoint is invalid, my wife's EA wasn't given the opportunity to become PA.

 

There's a simple reason for that.

 

Once d-day hit, she was all set to fly away to be with him. I drew a line in the sand. I told her point blank that if she left, if she went to him...in effect, if she escalated this from EA to PA especially with the knowledge of how I'd feel about this...it would be OVER between us, irrevokably and irrefutably.

 

I would have filed for divorce and removed her from my life.

 

Since it DIDN'T get to that point, I didn't have the same "mind movies" that many BS's have to deal with. But...I DID have to deal with the fact that she had mentally/emotionally replaced me in her heart with him. Tough enough, let me assure you.

 

But the bottom line is this...I didn't have to compromise my standards, I didn't have to bend my own stance on things...I was able to reconcile without reaching that kind of point.

 

I want to ask a counter-question...but I want to ensure you understand I'm not "calling you out" or attacking first.

 

You note that you feel VERY "black and white" about infidelity...which I can understand as I feel that way too.

 

What I don't get is how you can feel that way...and yet remain in a relationship with someone who was willing to perpetrate that on someone else? What's "different" about your situation that makes his actions acceptable?

 

Again...honest question.

 

Do you think there is any part of you that would have forgiven if it had been a PA? That going along the lines that we often state it's a dealbreaker until we're faced with it?

 

I am not in an R with him. I ended it several years ago. He is now almost divorced and we're talking again. With the good advice of so many on here I'm taking it very slowly and so is he.

 

Neither of us were spring chickens and we didn't react like teenagers. Did I think about his W. In a way yes but I wasn't going to make my decision based on her. When he approached the subject of an A I told him about my M and xHs A. I told him if carried on he would hurt her and that he could lose everything. We talked at length about the impact on a lot of aspects of his life and I told him not to take any of it lightly. Then I set out my boundaries. Never meeting at either of our homes, no hour long trysts in a cheap hotel, if we went anywhere I'd pay my way but it would be for at least a few nights. He would have to leave the room if he spoke to her or SMS'ed her. I wouldn't turn my phone off or remain quiet if he picked a call up while I was there. I would never ever dodge her if she contacted me. I would have access to call at any time day or night. I would be able to call his home phone number. I wouldn't hide him from my friends and I wouldn't duck and dive if we went out for dinner or met up with people. Those were my boundaries and he agreed to them. I never thought he would agree but he did. I probably made them so ridiculous and warned him about what he could lose and the hurt he would inflict because I figured he would say thanks but no thanks. I was a wildcard OW.

 

So no. I didn't think of her specifically but I gave numerous and real warnings for what would happen. I knew my feelings for him and I knew he was never leaving. I had a choice. I either engaged in the A or had nothing with him. He had a choice. He engaged in the A and risked hurting his family and losing everything or he had nothing with me. We were past the point of being friends so it was all or nothing. I had every opportunity to walk away and I chose to explore the feelings and what we could have. He had every opportunity and reason to walk away and he chose not to. He made a very clear decision and it wasn't spontaneous. It wasn't over drinks at the bar one night. He had his big boy pants on and he did what he wanted.

 

I do see infidelity as black or white. I also see it as the choice of the WS. I had an R with someone I loved and he could have ended it at any point. I would have walked away as I did in all of the ddays.

 

I don't know how to say it any differently. I do not put the blame of the A on the AP. If a WS didn't cheat there would be no A. If my xH hadn't cheated there would have been no A.

 

I don't want to make this about my situation only so I'm not going to respond to any more posts but I'm more than happy to answer any PMs with any valid questions I haven't already answered. I won't respond to baiting or something that's irrelevant.

 

Thanks Owl.

[Owl]

Do you think there is any part of you that would have forgiven if it had been a PA? That going along the lines that we often state it's a dealbreaker until we're faced with it?

 

I MAY have forgiven years later perhaps. But I wouldn't have done so in any time frame conducive to resuming a marriage with her. And realize...in some fashion, I WAS faced with it. Had she gone...it would have gone PA, without any doubt in my mind. I was forced to think quite a bit about what I would do or wouldn't do during that week.

 

I drew a line in the sand with a boundary that I knew I could not/would not tolerate to be violated.

 

I am not in an R with him. I ended it several years ago. He is now almost divorced and we're talking again. With the good advice of so many on here I'm taking it very slowly and so is he.

 

Neither of us were spring chickens and we didn't react like teenagers. Did I think about his W. In a way yes but I wasn't going to make my decision based on her. When he approached the subject of an A I told him about my M and xHs A. I told him if carried on he would hurt her and that he could lose everything. We talked at length about the impact on a lot of aspects of his life and I told him not to take any of it lightly. Then I set out my boundaries. Never meeting at either of our homes, no hour long trysts in a cheap hotel, if we went anywhere I'd pay my way but it would be for at least a few nights. He would have to leave the room if he spoke to her or SMS'ed her. I wouldn't turn my phone off or remain quiet if he picked a call up while I was there. I would never ever dodge her if she contacted me. I would have access to call at any time day or night. I would be able to call his home phone number. I wouldn't hide him from my friends and I wouldn't duck and dive if we went out for dinner or met up with people. Those were my boundaries and he agreed to them. I never thought he would agree but he did. I probably made them so ridiculous and warned him about what he could lose and the hurt he would inflict because I figured he would say thanks but no thanks. I was a wildcard OW.

 

So no. I didn't think of her specifically but I gave numerous and real warnings for what would happen. I knew my feelings for him and I knew he was never leaving. I had a choice. I either engaged in the A or had nothing with him. He had a choice. He engaged in the A and risked hurting his family and losing everything or he had nothing with me. We were past the point of being friends so it was all or nothing. I had every opportunity to walk away and I chose to explore the feelings and what we could have. He had every opportunity and reason to walk away and he chose not to. He made a very clear decision and it wasn't spontaneous. It wasn't over drinks at the bar one night. He had his big boy pants on and he did what he wanted.

 

Fair enough...sounds like a decent understanding of things.

 

I do see infidelity as black or white. I also see it as the choice of the WS. I had an R with someone I loved and he could have ended it at any point. I would have walked away as I did in all of the ddays.

 

I don't know how to say it any differently. I do not put the blame of the A on the AP. If a WS didn't cheat there would be no A. If my xH hadn't cheated there would have been no A.

 

Here is where we view things differently I think. We all are responsible for our own actions, and their impacts on others. I get that the MM/MW bears the lion's share of 'blame'...but by the same token, if someone knowingly engages in an affair...aware of what the potential damage and outcome is likely to be to the BS and/or any children involved...they are complicit.

 

If you know what you're doing will hurt someone...even if it's someone else's "fault" you're involved in the situation...and you continue...you're responsible for that hurt caused.

 

No, you didn't make the vows. But you still proceeded with the knowledge that someone would get hurt.

 

(BTW...this is all the "generic" you. Not calling SB out personally here.)

 

I don't want to make this about my situation only so I'm not going to respond to any more posts but I'm more than happy to answer any PMs with any valid questions I haven't already answered. I won't respond to baiting or something that's irrelevant.

 

Thanks Owl.

 

Thanks for responding and answering honestly. I've posted my thoughts as well...don't know that there's anything left to discuss...LOL!

[Summer Breeze]

I MAY have forgiven years later perhaps. But I wouldn't have done so in any time frame conducive to resuming a marriage with her. And realize...in some fashion, I WAS faced with it. Had she gone...it would have gone PA, without any doubt in my mind. I was forced to think quite a bit about what I would do or wouldn't do during that week.

 

I drew a line in the sand with a boundary that I knew I could not/would not tolerate to be violated.

 

 

 

Fair enough...sounds like a decent understanding of things.

 

 

 

Here is where we view things differently I think. We all are responsible for our own actions, and their impacts on others. I get that the MM/MW bears the lion's share of 'blame'...but by the same token, if someone knowingly engages in an affair...aware of what the potential damage and outcome is likely to be to the BS and/or any children involved...they are complicit.

 

If you know what you're doing will hurt someone...even if it's someone else's "fault" you're involved in the situation...and you continue...you're responsible for that hurt caused.

 

No, you didn't make the vows. But you still proceeded with the knowledge that someone would get hurt.

 

(BTW...this is all the "generic" you. Not calling SB out personally here.)

 

 

 

Thanks for responding and answering honestly. I've posted my thoughts as well...don't know that there's anything left to discuss...LOL!

 

Thanks for that Owl. I did proceed with the knowledge it would hurt her but it was his decision to go on and it is the married persons responsibility to protect the M. My xH should have protected ours. It wasn't her fault it was his. That is my black and white. If the M person hads no A there is no hurt. Sorry I did what I said I wouldn't.

 

Thanks again Owl.

[MissBee]

Very similar to watching how a man treats his mother.

 

Funnily, I also listen to how a man I'm seeing talks about his ex.

 

I think that is a difference of perspective. In that, some people are very insular when it comes on to their relationship and really only care about that person's interaction with them and don't really care about anything else. I've never been that way. If a man is badmouthing his exes...I don't care how much he dotes on me today...I always figure that this is YOUR personality. it is not the fault of your exes and I can just imagine if and when we end you'll be doing it to me too. I have to say that with my exAP, yes while he was in an A, in his mind he was having two separate relationships and he never spoke badly about her and he even told me that he would never discuss their issues likewise he would never discuss our issues. As odd as it sounds, I got what he meant. If we were to get together (of course working through the issues of why an A) I'd trust him more as I've observed that he at least took ownership of what he was doing and left her name and any personal details out of it and made it solely about his decision. So I could probably expect that he'd give me that much as well.

 

For me, I want a man I'm proud to be with, who I can observe how he treats kids, a stranger, his family etc. I like to know I have a good man whose goodness isn't because he likes me or is attempting to woo me. I would feel a lot safer knowing that that's his character whether or not I'm in the picture. But that's just me and the kinds of things important to me. The romantic/dating environment is very tricky and I simply find it flawed or easier to be led astray if I'm just focused on me and him in the privacy of pillow talk versus who he is publicly and w/ other people....my man's public reputation, character and rapport with others (worse yet those related to him or one he once claimed to love) is also important to me.

[underwater2010]

UW had you any thoughts about how you would react before the A happened? Did you think you'd forgive and move forward or did you think that might have been a dealbreaker.

 

Thanks very much for your answers.

Yes. We had even talked about affairs prior to marriage. We both agreed that the person should leave the marriage if that became an option. I had alway thought I would leave on the spot. But my situation is 3 kids (the youngest being 1) and 13 yrs marriage. My kids adore their father and he is great at being a dad. He was a good husband too, short of the affair. So I gave him my ring and said make a choice. If the marriage is that bad then leave. If not, then work with me on it.

 

We are together and only 4 months out. He is very aware that I will not give him another chance if it happens again.

[Summer Breeze]

Yes. We had even talked about affairs prior to marriage. We both agreed that the person should leave the marriage if that became an option. I had alway thought I would leave on the spot. But my situation is 3 kids (the youngest being 1) and 13 yrs marriage. My kids adore their father and he is great at being a dad. He was a good husband too, short of the affair. So I gave him my ring and said make a choice. If the marriage is that bad then leave. If not, then work with me on it.

 

We are together and only 4 months out. He is very aware that I will not give him another chance if it happens again.

 

Thanks for sharing that underwater. I wish you continued success in your reconciliation.

[Summer Breeze]

There was a little going back and forth on the issue of whether or not everyone has it in them to cheat.

 

I am not of the opinion that everyone would. I think probably more of us would than would like to admit but not that everyone would.

 

Being the devils advocate here. Almost every person here and that I know IRL say that before they were faced with infidelity they would not tolerate it and would end the R if their partner had cheated. If people do not react as they were sure they would when faced with a cheating spouse, would they also be wrong about what their choice might be if faced with the 'perfect storm' and cheating themselves?

[AnotherRound]

You won't like my honest answer.

It's because he's not doing it TO me.

It really is that simple. My happiness matters more to me than hers and I love him. Selfish, yes I know.

His actions are acceptable to me because it's not me he's lying to. Do I particularly like the part of him that can lie to her, not as much as I like the rest of him, but I've yet to meet a perfect person without flaws.

 

I appreciate your honesty here LFH. This is not the reason that I was okay with being involved in my affair, but I'm not going to lie, I'm glad that I wasn't the one being "lied" to. In my case, exMM wasn't lying to his stbxw, but he was not sharing everything with her, as we were trying to be discreet. She seemed okay with that, whereas I don't think I could have ever been okay with that. But, she and I obviously require different things in a relationship - hers seems to be security of the marriage type, and mine is love and emotional connection.

 

The bolded part above really makes sense to me. With my exMM, I didn't necessarily like the part of him that felt that the best way was to have an affair - as I would have just ended the marriage and left. But, I accepted it as him doing what he thought was best for him and his child at the time, and didn't judge it. I just accepted it as his decision, and it didn't negate all of the positives about him in my mind, so, I did it for as long as it was comfortable and fulfilling for me. When it wasn't either of those any longer (my tolerance for his inability to leave a bad situation was thoroughly tested for 7 years) I simply walked away.

 

And, I don't know if what you feel is selfish per se. I mean, we are biological creatures on so many levels, and it is kind of a survival of the fittest world at times. The circle of life can be cruel, and everyone can't "win" all the time, even when it comes to mates. We have all been passed over by potential mates at times, that's just part of life. I don't know if I would call it "selfish" to want the mate that is best for you, that's kind of how nature works.

[woinlove]

There was a little going back and forth on the issue of whether or not everyone has it in them to cheat.

 

I am not of the opinion that everyone would. I think probably more of us would than would like to admit but not that everyone would.

 

Being the devils advocate here. Almost every person here and that I know IRL say that before they were faced with infidelity they would not tolerate it and would end the R if their partner had cheated. If people do not react as they were sure they would when faced with a cheating spouse, would they also be wrong about what their choice might be if faced with the 'perfect storm' and cheating themselves?

 

I do think there is a huge difference between these two - reaction to a cheating spouse and deciding to cheat. In the latter, one may have faced the initial seeds many times and repeatedly decided not to. That is certainly my case, when I reflect back over my life and all my relationships. There are times when I was in an R and noticed a potential interest and in each case decided full honesty and openness with who I was with was the first priority and pursuing anything else could either wait or simply not be pursued at all. Having done that for decades, I know myself very well in that department and, barring a brain injury or such, see no reason why I would flip and decide to choose secrecy and deception.

 

On the other hand, if you haven't been cheated on before by someone you felt very committed to, you have not prepared for that situation over and over again, and it is no surprise that it may be difficult to predict how you might react. I just don't see that comparable at all to the decision to cheat, unless one has spent one's life in a monastery, one is still a teenager, or some such thing.

Edited September 26, 2012 by woinlove

[AnotherRound]

There was a little going back and forth on the issue of whether or not everyone has it in them to cheat.

 

I am not of the opinion that everyone would. I think probably more of us would than would like to admit but not that everyone would.

 

Being the devils advocate here. Almost every person here and that I know IRL say that before they were faced with infidelity they would not tolerate it and would end the R if their partner had cheated. If people do not react as they were sure they would when faced with a cheating spouse, would they also be wrong about what their choice might be if faced with the 'perfect storm' and cheating themselves?

 

I tend to agree with this. I think that as we go through life, we become desensitized to different things. Especially something that we greatly feared, and when it happens, we realize that it isn't the end of the world like we thought it might be. So, it becomes far less scary. This is why I would even consider giving exMM a chance with me. Because I think, what's the worst that can happen? That he would cheat? That he would leave me? That we wouldn't work out? Eh, none of that scares me at all. Not that I expect it, or would accept it (the cheating), just that it isn't a boogeyman anymore. I KNOW that I can handle it and it won't kill me, so it's just not scary enough to make me not take the chance.

 

Before I was the BS, I was adamant about not having affairs. I had this kind of fairy tale belief about marriage, that it was forever, no matter what - and I've since learned, that just isn't the case. It isn't always possible for it to be "forever", and I'm perfectly okay with that. I was NOT okay with that before my exH cheated on me bc I wanted, needed, that security. That no matter what, we would be together.

 

But then something weird started happening. I was the one that didn't want to be married. I began to think that I had made a mistake in my choice of a husband. Not that he was a bad person, he just wasn't a person that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, for many reasons. When I married him, I truly believed I did want to spend the rest of my life with him, but that changed for me. As I learned more about him (and we had lived together prior to marriage) and more about myself, I realized that he and I just were not a good match. So, I started to think about marriage in a much more realistic way, in that it wasn't this happily ever after fairy tale anymore - but just two humans trying to co-exist in a situation where they were required to be a good match. And we weren't. We just weren't. I look back now and wonder why we ever thought we were, bc by the end of the marriage, our colossal differences were SO evident!

 

I used to say a lot of the things that I hear many BS saying here - that if there were no OP, then there would be no affairs, etc. And I truly believed that back then, when I was young and impressionable, and the real world hadn't kicked me in the teeth yet. But now, I have a MUCH better grasp about what a marriage would take (I won't ever be married again, but I would be in a LT relationship, monogamously) to make it work. And I believe that I'm in a much better position to pick a partner that is a good match for me, whereas back then, I obviously wasn't bc I chose really badly when it came to that (as did he, I guess).

 

So, I think it's a matter for some people of letting go of their ideal image of marriage and looking at it from a much more pragmatic kind of view. Not saying that they are "behind" or "stupid" (as I'm sure some will think I'm saying, I'm NOT), just that they haven't had that illusion punctured yet. Which may very well be the reason that many reconciled couples report so much more happiness and such a better marriage AFTER infidelity has touched their marriage. Maybe at that point, they let that illusion go and approach their marriage in a much more realistic way????

[underwater2010]

There was a little going back and forth on the issue of whether or not everyone has it in them to cheat.

 

I am not of the opinion that everyone would. I think probably more of us would than would like to admit but not that everyone would.

 

Being the devils advocate here. Almost every person here and that I know IRL say that before they were faced with infidelity they would not tolerate it and would end the R if their partner had cheated. If people do not react as they were sure they would when faced with a cheating spouse, would they also be wrong about what their choice might be if faced with the 'perfect storm' and cheating themselves?

Not a chance. I have had many chances and have never acted upon them. I never would. My heart and body belongs to one man and one man alone. If ever I wanted someone else, I would leave. I would never bestow the pain on someone that was delivered unto me.

[AnotherRound]

Not a chance. I have had many chances and have never acted upon them. I never would. My heart and body belongs to one man and one man alone. If ever I wanted someone else, I would leave. I would never bestow the pain on someone that was delivered unto me.

 

I am the same. I have never cheated on anyone that I've been with, and with almost 100% certainty can say that I never would (that never could be wrong, but I think it would take some crazy circumstances to get me to do so). However, for me, just bc I wouldn't, I don't judge those that do. I think we all have to make our own decisions in this life, and live with ourselves. I could never lie to someone, it's just not in my nature. I don't feel good when I'm anything but 100% honest with people (sometimes gets me into trouble, but I'm okay with that, I prefer that over lying).

 

Now, if I was in my ExMMs position, I could see myself agreeing to have an open relationship (maybe?) with my spouse if I thought that divorce would be too traumatic for our children or something. But then again, I don't believe that divorce is "too traumatic" for children, so it wouldn't hinder me from getting a divorce. So, maybe not even in that situation. But again, I can see exMMs reasoning, and that's his choice at the end of the day, and his consequences to live with, not mine.

 

Interesting.

[Summer Breeze]

I do think there is a huge difference between these two - reaction to a cheating spouse and deciding to cheat. In the latter, one may have faced the initial seeds many times and repeatedly decided not to. That is certainly my case, when I reflect back over my life and all my relationships. There are times when I was in an R and noticed a potential interest and in each case decided full honesty and openness with who I was with was the first priority and pursuing anything else could either wait or simply not be pursued at all. Having done that for decades, I know myself very well in that department and, barring a brain injury or such, see no reason why I would flip and decide to choose secrecy and deception.

 

On the other hand, if you haven't been cheated on before by someone you felt very committed to, you have not prepared for that situation over and over again, and it is no surprise that it may be difficult to predict how you might react. I just don't see that comparable at all to the decision to cheat, unless one has spent one's life in a monastery, one is still a teenager, or some such thing.

 

So by what you've said there may be people who have been M 30 years and not had a lick of interest from anyone else. When they do finally get the attention they could be susceptible? They haven't had any experience to help them build to a certain point. So if there's a perfect storm they may be susceptible even though they've claimed 'no I wouldn't' right straight through their lives?

 

The two are very different but it's the issue of being completely sure of your reaction to a situation that I'm tossing around more than anything. If you don't act the way you KNOW you will in one situation then can you be absolutely sure how you'd react in other situations?

 

Again I don't say you can't be 100% sure you wouldn't cheat. You can be absolutely sure and that's all that matters. I just thought this was an interesting turn.