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The act of infidelity


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Posted

From reading LS, I get the impression that the majority of people involved in affairs think they are wrong. Of course, some don't, but the majority do seem to. Clearly, just thinking some behavior wrong is not sufficient to stop everyone from behaving that way. It stops some people, but not everyone.

Posted

Whether it works or not...if I see someone hurting themselves, I'm going to try to stop them.

  • Like 2
Posted
It wouldn't matter to me whether or not it was a judgment.

 

I don't know what your morality codes are neither do you mine.

 

There are only specific activties you've identified as not wanting to participate in...that doesn't delineate your moral code. That is an example of one thing you wouldn't participate in but I have no idea which of your personal morals it trangresses. Likewise, I could have simply said, "well hazing doens't go against any of my morals"....then it would beg the question to the curious, what are my morals exactly? You wouldn't know what they are simply because I said hazing isn't against it. I hope you're understanding what I'm saying. Not participating in a certain activity doesn't automatically explain your morals, it just explains that you didn't want to participate in that activity. Some people don't eat meat...some it's because they feel killing living things is wrong and their moral system is against killing, for some, they simply don't like meat and it is not some moral dilemma. Likewise some folks have come to the OW/OM board to ask about As and say they don't think affairs are wrong, they just wouldn't do it because of xyz reason. Them not wanting to have an affair was not because of any moral code against it, but it didn't seem pragmatic to them.

 

 

In any case, to bring it back to the larger discussion of As and morality. Having a moral code and always abiding by it are not one and the same. A moral code is about what you ought and ought not to do and what people try as best to do or not do...failure to do an ought or ought not doesn't make it no longer your morals, it just means you've violated said morals.Human experience is complex and people violate codes they believe in sometimes, hence conflict and guilt (which some OW/MP experience) are as a result of having a certain moral code that deems lying or infidelity as wrong, yet, they still participate in it, so that's why they feel badly about it. There is a difference between saying As are not against your moral code versus them being against your moral code, but you participate for XYZ reason. For me, such was the case. I never thought As were okay or acceptable and in line with my values, yet I still participated for reasons I deemed okay or frankly, I didn't care. That would be different from if I had no concept or value system attached to As and felt they were neutral...in such a case no justification to myself, any forum, any person or deity would even cross my mind.

 

From my time on LS I can say that for most people it goes against their morals, yet they participate for reasons they deem justifiable. Only a few claim it is not against their morals and again, that doesn't mean anything, as the question is, okay what are your morals? Simply pointing out an activity you would or wouldn't do doesn't really explain what your morals are.

 

No, I see what you are saying, I just disagree, respectfully. I don't have a mantra of my morals, I take each situation on a case by case basis. Mostly, I think murder is wrong - but, I can think of several situations where it might be "less wrong" or even "not wrong at all".

 

My morality code is basically to mind my own business, and let others make their own choices. The only time I would insert myself is if someone was being abused or in danger. I would never hurt someone intentionally. And in my A, I didn't - the stbxw wasn't intentionally or unintentionally hurt by me. So, it didn't need to be justified according to my moral code. I minded my business, and wasn't hurting anyone.

 

Now, if you want to say that exMM hurt her - perhaps. I would beg to differ, but that gets into the fact that his stbxw was aware and was not being deceived. Which is an entirely different sub-category I understand from people here. But I did not lie to her, did not withhold information from her, and never took any type of role in deceiving her. She could have known all about my relationship with him - if she had just asked. That's me minding my own business - and letting her choose how she lived her life. I didn't force her to "face the facts", I didn't place myself into her life, I let her make her own decisions about what she wanted to know and what she wanted to face and what she wanted to "handle".

 

I do not take responsibility for another's actions. That is my morality. I do not take the blame that she knew and didn't do anything. That she knew and refused to confront it. That is her issue, her business, not mine.

 

I don't see how I could describe my morality code to you, other than to tell you things I would not participate in, or would, and then the varying situations that might affect that participation. Again, it isn't black and white to me, there is a lot of gray. I think hazing (aka bullying) is wrong, and would NEVER participate in it. But, I think it's not wrong when a bully is bullied back by someone that they have harmed. I would never do that, but I can see the justice in that, and therefore, it's not "as wrong" or "wrong" entirely.

 

See what I mean? It's flexible - not static. It depends - on a lot of things. My goal is always to put good into the world and not bad. And I honestly feel like I was in line with that throughout my A bc none of my beliefs were compromised. So, no need for justification. And, if exMM had been deceitful to his stbxw, I wouldn't have participated. I wouldn't have run to her to spill, I would have just excused myself from the situation - minding my own business and letting others handle their own issues. It's not my job to save other people from themselves, nor do I feel badly about not doing so for them. I'm not god, I'm not their judge, I'm here to live my life, not theirs.

 

Is that any clearer? Or clear as mud? lol

  • Like 1
Posted
THAT is a question I have been asking myself! And I'm not surprise you ask , because you know me.

 

I am right now at the same place emotionally that I was when I was OW. I am emotionally unavailable. I have lost the vision of myself with a permanent partner. I have little respect for most men. I have not much hope in the idea of fidelity. I have a general mistrust of the world.

 

I like men and enjoy their company. I enjoy my own company. I have desire for sex , but none for intimacy. I want affection without conversation. I'd like some fun without obligation.

 

A man that otherwise had his hands full would fit the bill nicely. A man that could not play games or demand more than I offer, like FWB often do.

 

A MM.

 

No, I could never do that and remain repulsed by the idea.

I will not make another woman more vulnerable so that I could be more fulfilled.

I will not give so much as a piece of myself to someone so willing to give to a stranger what he must take from his family.

I know now that my integrity cannot be taken from me.

I will not ever interact under the radar in someone elses life.

Oh geez...and a man doing that to his wife? Please. I can get so so much better.

 

I won't do anything I would advise my daughter not to.

 

Thank you for this.

 

I too am the mother of daughters and recognized very early how I am the role model for them of a strong, resourceful woman who shows through my actions what a strong woman will or will not accept in any relationship.

 

After dday, they sat their father down and told him that he was EXACTLY the type of man he had always warned them against.

 

OUCH.

 

They wanted to give the OW a piece of their minds. I talked them out of it, telling them we had too much class for a gutter brawl and she wouldn't get it anyhow.

 

They then begged me to give their father a second chance.

 

Why, I asked?

 

Because YOU have always been the stronger of the two.

 

I did my job well.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
As I said before I'd never been involved, or even close to it, with a MM before him so it's nothing I subconsciously was looking for.
Subconscious means that you are not aware of your true motivations. A person that is prompted to act by subconscious motivations is not capable of viewing their own intentions objectively.

 

I have not been an OW or a BS, but I think a person that would not tolerate cheating in their own relationship, and then chooses to be with a cheater, has some cognitive dissonance going on. What else could explain why a person that requires honesty and loyalty in their relationship chooses to be with a person proven to be lacking in integrity? (The justification for this will be "But he's only dishonest to her! He has no reason to lie to me!"). And to that I would say he has no reason to lie to her yet. What do you think his default action will be when a conflict arises? Will MM go against his natural tendency to lie? Doubtful, IMO.

 

If your emotions for MM cause you to justify him cheating on his wife, then it's possible that your emotions will also cloud your logic when he cheats on you. You just don't know.

 

Most OW probably said at one point in their lives, "I won't ever be a mistress." And yet the attention and connection with MM led them to revise their own rule. Because of this, it should be easy for OW to understand how a BW's emotional connection to MM may lead her to revise her previous stance of never reconciling with a cheater. Oh, I forgot. MM & BW don't have an "emotional connection".

 

Both OW and BS should see MM as selfish and character flawed, and they both probably would if their emotions and the history between them didn't color their view of the situation.

 

I think when a BS chooses to reconcile, she often understands that her husband has character issues and knows he has a lot of work to do on himself. She rightfully will not trust him for a long time, until he has proven trustworthy (if ever).

 

When an OW chooses to be with a cheater, I think she often believes that this was just a good guy in a bad situation, and this will lead her to naively trust a person that has proven to be dishonest and selfish. Because of this faith in him, MM will not be held accountable or inspired to look inward. They will bask in their togetherness, while MM's issues are still there lying dormant under the bliss. There will be no pressure to identify and repair those character flaws and his poor coping skills. MM gets to move on to the next relationship, where his conflict avoidance and propensity for dishonesty is not an issue. Yet.

Edited by Quiet Storm
  • Like 9
Posted

Idk Another Round.....

 

I, and many like me, and others I know IRL who had affairs, when confronting the OW found a defensive, blaming, justifying person on the other end of the line.....

 

If they didn't run for the hills and dodge our calls.

 

Had she told me she loved him, wanted to marry him, I could have respected that.

 

I loved him and married him. I could get that.

 

But that is NOT what I found, and so many others did not find that either.

 

I know an OW who kept saying, I think she (the wife) was slurring her words...MM said she drank too much, OR, if she calls again, I'm not here, OR, why is she calling me? She should be talking to her H.....blah, blah, blah....

 

So, if you TRULY believe you wouldn't dodge, weave or hide...why not call her?

 

Why must the onus be on her to call you?

 

Is it because you, like the OW in my sitch, are convinced she knows about you and does not care?

 

Surely, you realize all MM try to convince their OW of this as it prevents you from feeling guilty and therefore, continuing the affair, and also not trying to contact HER.

 

It IS part of the triangle script and is designed to keep you from caring about the BS too much or trying to confront her.

 

It IS a deceptive and manipulating stroke of genius for the MM to do this.

 

I believe, Until you hear these words from the horse's mouth, (THE BS) you are taking a lot at face value.

 

Potentially, a grave mistake, IMHO.

  • Like 5
Posted

All things being equal, both BS and the OW thinking they know whats going on...

The BS usually has no problem calling the OW if they really think they know the truth.

Yet, the OW who think it is they that know the real truth rarely call the wives.

What's to be afraid of?

  • Like 4
Posted
Subconscious means that you are not aware of your true motivations. A person that is prompted to act by subconscious motivations is not capable of viewing their own intentions objectively.

 

I have not been an OW or a BS, but I think a person that would not tolerate cheating in their own relationship, and then chooses to be with a cheater, has some cognitive dissonance going on. What else could explain why a person that requires honesty and loyalty in their relationship chooses to be with a person proven to be lacking in integrity? (The justification for this will be "But he's only dishonest to her! He has no reason to lie to me!"). And to that I would say he has no reason to lie to her yet. What do you think his default action will be when a conflict arises? Will MM go against his natural tendency to lie? Doubtful, IMO.

 

If your emotions for MM cause you to justify him cheating on his wife, then it's possible that your emotions will also cloud your logic when he cheats on you. You just don't know.

 

Most OW probably said at one point in their lives, "I won't ever be a mistress." And yet the attention and connection with MM led them to revise their own rule. Because of this, it should be easy for OW to understand how a BW's emotional connection to MM may lead her to revise her previous stance of never reconciling with a cheater. Oh, I forgot. MM & BW don't have an "emotional connection".

 

Both OW and BS should see MM as selfish and character flawed, and they both probably would if their emotions and the history between them didn't color their view of the situation.

 

I think when a BS chooses to reconcile, she often understands that her husband has character issues and knows he has a lot of work to do on himself. She rightfully will not trust him for a long time, until he has proven trustworthy (if ever).

 

When an OW chooses to be with a cheater, I think she often believes that this was just a good guy in a bad situation, and this will lead her to naively trust a person that has proven to be dishonest and selfish. Because of this faith in him, MM will not be held accountable or inspired to look inward. They will bask in their togetherness, while MM's issues are still there lying dormant under the bliss. There will be no pressure to identify and repair those character flaws and his poor coping skills. MM gets to move on to the next relationship, where his conflict avoidance and propensity for dishonesty is not an issue. Yet.

 

Yes, this is brilliant!

 

And, it seems to me, that it is either extremely naive, or extremely narcissistic, to believe your love is SO SPECIAL tha t it will change the leopard's spots for life should he wind being your SO or spouse.

  • Like 3
Posted
Whether it works or not...if I see someone hurting themselves, I'm going to try to stop them.

 

I think this is a sign of feeling connected to others. When you care about others, even strangers, then you don't want to see them hurt. Same thing that stops some from being an AP/WS, so as not to hurt others or participate in hurting others, as well as not to hurt themselves, makes one want to help others both not hurt themselves and not hurt others.

 

Some might call it not minding your own business, particularly if they are set on doing what they want even if people are likely to be hurt, but it also is a sign of caring about others.

Posted
All things being equal, both BS and the OW thinking they know whats going on...

The BS usually has no problem calling the OW if they really think they know the truth.

Yet, the OW who think it is they that know the real truth rarely call the wives.

What's to be afraid of?

 

I learned a few unexpected truths when I talked to the BS.

Posted

Im not afraid of much, at all. Having been a BS, I must admit I would be terrified to call anyone like myself if I were OW.

Seriously.

  • Like 1
Posted
Im not afraid of much, at all. Having been a BS, I must admit I would be terrified to call anyone like myself if I were OW.

Seriously.

 

Yup.

 

When I blew up their affair- I sent screenshots of conversations and texts I had with my spouse to the OW.

 

She was shocked, to say the least. Full picture? Never lie to her?

 

Yeah. Notsomuch.

Posted (edited)
Thanks for that Deb. I do realize that we all come to our own conclusions as to when enough is enough. Your comments about the kids and how you wouldn't keep them from their father struck me. I felt exactly the same with my xH and my daughter. He ruined our R, not me. I wasn't going to be the one to ruin the R he had with her. Sadly he did that as well for a few years.

 

I knew the woman who was the OW in my case but we weren't close or friends. I will honestly say that would be the time I would be concerned with the OW--if she was betraying me as well but even that would be a separate issue I think.

 

Thank you again. You sound like quite a strong gal.

 

 

I am not that strong i am like every other woman i struggle I have good days where i am strong others when i am weak.......im female and i accept it.....i have to be a trojan....but it is nice to be feminine too and being feminine is allowing yourself to feel whatever it is you feel...i love being a woman.......and we all have strength

ask th emother who lifted a car off her daughter.....that is a strong gal.....where did she get that strength from i wonder.....i know already..from god...god has my strength....he gives it to me when i really need it so i can be who i am ....a mother....a daughter.....and ....a woman......smilin atcha....deb

Edited by todreaminblue
Posted
Idk Another Round.....

 

I, and many like me, and others I know IRL who had affairs, when confronting the OW found a defensive, blaming, justifying person on the other end of the line.....

 

If they didn't run for the hills and dodge our calls.

 

Had she told me she loved him, wanted to marry him, I could have respected that.

 

I loved him and married him. I could get that.

 

But that is NOT what I found, and so many others did not find that either.

 

I know an OW who kept saying, I think she (the wife) was slurring her words...MM said she drank too much, OR, if she calls again, I'm not here, OR, why is she calling me? She should be talking to her H.....blah, blah, blah....

 

So, if you TRULY believe you wouldn't dodge, weave or hide...why not call her?

 

Why must the onus be on her to call you?

 

Is it because you, like the OW in my sitch, are convinced she knows about you and does not care?

 

Surely, you realize all MM try to convince their OW of this as it prevents you from feeling guilty and therefore, continuing the affair, and also not trying to contact HER.

 

It IS part of the triangle script and is designed to keep you from caring about the BS too much or trying to confront her.

 

It IS a deceptive and manipulating stroke of genius for the MM to do this.

 

I believe, Until you hear these words from the horse's mouth, (THE BS) you are taking a lot at face value.

 

Potentially, a grave mistake, IMHO.

 

This makes sense. I would NOT have dodged her, and didn't. She often dodged me. That told me that she didn't want to confront it, and I respected her space in that way. I wasn't just going on what exMM said - it was what he said, plus what I observed, plus what she and I's mutual friends observed. She KNEW, she actually told a friend of hers that she knew when the friend tried to bring it up - a mutual friend that did NOT know that I was the OW. She called me - and said nothing, despite the fact that I said (non defensively), "I will answer anything you ask honestly". She hung the phone up (she did this twice).

 

I know that many think that this is the script that MM follow. I don't believe that. Sometimes, it might just be true. I have known women who "look the other way" personally, it's not as uncommon as some apparently think it is.

 

The onus is on her, bc I was NOT the one with the cheating husband. If she did not like the arrangement, or didn't want her H to have a relationship, she could have ended it with one sentence, "leave my husband alone". That would have told me that she DID care, and was NOT okay with it - and I would have left it. But she didn't tell me that. She followed me around, and drove past my house and stared at me - but never once stopped to confront me. I didn't run and hide, I stood outside, looked back at her, and waited for what I thought was going to be the confrontation. But - nothing.

 

It's not on me, imo, to help her run her life, or tell her how to do so, or be her marriage counselor. That was between them. From everything I witnessed, she did NOT want to confront it, didn't want it out in the open, and was okay with it. It's not my job to help her be assertive if she doesn't like something, I can only go by what I witness - and that was her dodging me when she had PLENTY of chances to confront me. I was open to that, and would NOT have lied to her (which I'm 99.99% sure he wasn't lying to her either, or she wouldn't have had my number, known where I lived, etc.). And in fact, after the other OW made several scenes, the stbxw stated to exMM AND others that she would have just stayed married if the other OW wouldn't have "made a scene".

 

I know it's hard to believe - trust me, I don't get it either. But when I say she was/is avoidant, I am NOT exaggerating - she is epic avoidant, beyond anything I have ever witnessed in my life (and I work with some pretty avoidant people!). But that isn't my problem. I can't assume that she cares about something when everything she does shows that she does not. I can't read her mind, only go by how she acts.

 

When I was the BW, I confronted the OW, told her that I knew she was the OW, and since I was ready to be out of the marriage, didn't ask her to leave him alone, just stated that he WAS married, and she knew that already, and that I knew. Had exMMs stbxw said anything to me at all about not being okay with it, I would have been DONE. Whether anyone believes it or not, it's the truth - but she did not express anything other than avoidance. And to me, that's passive aggressive, not a clue that she wasn't "okay" with it. If I read the situation wrong, she could have cleared it up very quickly with one little tiny sentence. That's her issue, and I won't carry it for her or take responsibility for it.

Posted
All things being equal, both BS and the OW thinking they know whats going on...

The BS usually has no problem calling the OW if they really think they know the truth.

Yet, the OW who think it is they that know the real truth rarely call the wives.

What's to be afraid of?

 

Eh, for me, it wasn't fear at all. It was a feeling that she did NOT want to hear it or confront it or deal with me, so I left her alone. I had no reason to contact her, I was fine with the arrangement while I was fine with it. She seemed to be also, so what would I call her about?

 

And, once when I called the house, she answered, I asked for him, she said he was busy and asked if she could take a message (she knew my number, she had already called me), I told her sure, please have exMM call me then provided my name. He said that she gave him the message and said, "Your girlfriend called and wants you to call her back." She wasn't real nice about it I guess, but she didn't confront it even then. I didn't call him ever, except to return his calls - so that only happened once. But if it had been me, I would have asked her straight out, or told her I wanted her to leave my H alone - I certainly wouldn't have passed on the message without discussing THAT issue!

 

I'm not sure why it's my job, or my responsibility, or my "good human" marker to live her life for her, or make her decisions for her, or force her to face something she is obviously trying/wanting to avoid. That doesn't make sense to me. I respected her space, bc that seemed like what she wanted. That she didn't mind me seeing him, as long as I wasn't showing up on her stoop, or forcing myself into HER life at any time. So, I didn't. We were often at the same places together, she could have said something to me on hundreds of occasions, and didn't.

 

Sorry guys, but I'm not taking responsibility for that. Their marriage was their issue, and theirs to work out. And if she wanted to discuss things with him, and have me not in the picture, she could have said so. She now has no idea if I would have respected that, bc she didn't have the guts to do it, or she truly didn't care (I tend to believe the latter) - but I know that I would have been done with it. If I didn't see a marriage that both people were unhappy in, that looked beyond fixable, that looked like both were staying in it for the child, I would have gotten myself out of it, somehow (even though he wouldn't have given up easily, I know). She had the power to end it, but didn't. So, I'm going to have to assume that she didn't care, or didn't care enough to do anything, or was okay with the situation and WAS staying for the child. I don't see how I can get anything else from her actions and behaviors.

Posted
Eh, for me, it wasn't fear at all. It was a feeling that she did NOT want to hear it or confront it or deal with me, so I left her alone. I had no reason to contact her, I was fine with the arrangement while I was fine with it. She seemed to be also, so what would I call her about?

 

And, once when I called the house, she answered, I asked for him, she said he was busy and asked if she could take a message (she knew my number, she had already called me), I told her sure, please have exMM call me then provided my name. He said that she gave him the message and said, "Your girlfriend called and wants you to call her back." She wasn't real nice about it I guess, but she didn't confront it even then. I didn't call him ever, except to return his calls - so that only happened once. But if it had been me, I would have asked her straight out, or told her I wanted her to leave my H alone - I certainly wouldn't have passed on the message without discussing THAT issue!

 

I'm not sure why it's my job, or my responsibility, or my "good human" marker to live her life for her, or make her decisions for her, or force her to face something she is obviously trying/wanting to avoid. That doesn't make sense to me. I respected her space, bc that seemed like what she wanted. That she didn't mind me seeing him, as long as I wasn't showing up on her stoop, or forcing myself into HER life at any time. So, I didn't. We were often at the same places together, she could have said something to me on hundreds of occasions, and didn't.

 

Sorry guys, but I'm not taking responsibility for that. Their marriage was their issue, and theirs to work out. And if she wanted to discuss things with him, and have me not in the picture, she could have said so. She now has no idea if I would have respected that, bc she didn't have the guts to do it, or she truly didn't care (I tend to believe the latter) - but I know that I would have been done with it. If I didn't see a marriage that both people were unhappy in, that looked beyond fixable, that looked like both were staying in it for the child, I would have gotten myself out of it, somehow (even though he wouldn't have given up easily, I know). She had the power to end it, but didn't. So, I'm going to have to assume that she didn't care, or didn't care enough to do anything, or was okay with the situation and WAS staying for the child. I don't see how I can get anything else from her actions and behaviors.

 

This sounds like you are jumping to conclusions on so little information which could have multiple meanings, and filling in the cracks with assumptions which don't mean much. Maybe her H told her you were a friend which is why she passed on the message you called. When MM separated, it was completely in the open that we were a couple, including in front of his W, not hiding from anyone. When the 3 of us stayed in the same house, it was her H and I who shared a bedroom. I'd call that an R where the W knows, even though she didn't give it her consent (as is typically the case in an open M). Taking a message from a phone call could mean any number of things.

 

It is up to you what you want to know and don't know. But assumptions are just that, assumptions.

  • Like 2
Posted
It's a great question, but no. As a hypothetical situation I could not look past it. I know how long it has taken me to undo some bad but unavoidable habits learned by living with a liar/cheater. I cannot and will not be that person again. It is as much about what it would do to my psyche and behaviour as it is to do with his actions. I would destroy the relationship only it would happen far more slowly and painfully that way. This relationship is fantastic, but to me it ceases to be as soon as there's infidelity, because it could not be fantastic from that point, as far as I am concerned. The whole make-up of the relationship changes and can't be reinstated.

What 'bad and unavoidable habits learned by living with a liar/cheater' have you managed to undo?

 

Great point about ceasing to be a fantastic R once infidelity occurs...

Posted
You seem so sure you have it all figured out about what your mm's wife thinks and feels and why she did what she did that you don't even consider that you might have it all wrong or why you might be wrong.

 

For instance when you talk about her following you around and never confronting you, for all you know, your mm lied to her and had her afraid of you.

 

It's very presumptuous of you to assume that because she never confronted you or asked you to leave her husband alone that she was giving you the green light for her husband. Silence is implied consent in your view. :laugh:

 

The last thing in the world that a mm wants is his ow talking to his wife or his wife talking to the ow. A lot of mm tell some outrageous lies to keep this from happening. For example, my xmm told her outrageous lies to keep her from confronting me. He told her that I had a crazy husband who would kill him if she contacted me. I'm not even married. lol He told me, she was a crazy woman with a gun and he had me afraid that she would harm me. You may think that is extreme......maybe it is a little bit, but again, the LAST thing in the world the mm wants is.........for the two women to talk. It's very much to his disadvantage if the two women do.

 

The point is.......your assumptions are just assumptions because you never spoke with her yourself.

 

Your MM and my ExMM are two different people (as far as I know! ;)), so what happened in your case is not necessarily what happened in my case. Nope, I never heard her say that she was okay with it - but I never heard her say she wasn't either. So, why should I assume one way and not the other? And, why isn't she responsible to let me know that? It was their marriage, not mine. That falls under their responsibility, not mine.

 

Your MM was obviously lying to everyone. My exMM never kept us apart - we often were in the same places, all 3 of us. He didn't stop seeing me when she knew my number and was calling me. If he didn't want any "suspicion" bc he was lying to her, then he really sucked at it, bc we never had a lull in our relationship due to him cutting it off or trying to cut it back.

 

And, she might have been afraid of me. But, if it were me, I wouldn't be afraid of anyone that was in a relationship with MY H. She's the one that had the "right" to be angry, she didn't use it, that's on her. I highly doubt that exMM was telling her to be afraid of me - just the thought of that makes me laugh. If I was "crazy" or "dangerous", she maybe would have seen some of that behavior within the 7 years, I would think. If after years of not having me do anything crazy or dangerous, if she didn't figure it out (and he was telling her I was either of those), well, I can't be responsible for that either.

 

I think she followed me around and looked at me just out of curiosity - to see what I looked like, what I acted like, etc. I was never hostile to her, or defensive, or anything other than 100% neutral. I just ignored her - but didn't go out of my way to not be near her, or at the same place as she was. I just went, visited with my friends, and lived my live. And I wasn't doing anything crazy or dangerous then either - so again, if she couldn't figure out that I wasn't either of those, after all those years, and all those times seeing me and being in the same place as me - well, then that would make her pretty slow on the uptake. And, that's not my problem either. I can't be her balls, and her brains - it's her life. She has to live it the way she sees fit. Just bc she is different from me doesn't make her wrong, and I'm certainly not going to tell her that she is, or force her to live her life the way that I would live mine in her shoes.

 

Anyway, I've explained all I can about this. It's obvious some do not see the situation how it was, and I can't help that. I've offered a LOT of information to show the situation the way it was, and if that's not good enough, well, that's all I got. lol

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure at this point we are well OT, or at least veering that way. So, in order not to TJ any further (if I have), I'm leaving this topic. I'm not spending any more time on it as I know what I know, and that just has to be good enough here bc it is an internet forum, and I can't condense 7 years of history and behaviors into these long posts of mine, no matter how hard I try. lol :)

Posted

 

So yes...today I believe some affairs are about love, some sex, and some are replaying a subconcious need for empowerment, where the former victim (BS) gets to try on the role of victor (OW).

Not so for me -- to be 'a victor' ... I decided to act on my right to give my H a taste of his own medicine (after telling him I didn't assure him of fidelity any longer, and reserved the right to have an affair anytime I chose in the future, after H repeatedly had affairs) and after finding OMM, and getting all the signals from him that he was interested in me, I decided his being married was him being the same as me -- a level playing field, as I thought it would have been worse to find a single OM to 'fall in love with' and have a full blown affair with me being a MW. My OM being a married man made him the same as me in my situation.

 

I did not pick a MM to hurt his BS, that was secondary to the fallout of our decision. I DO feel what I did was wrong. She did not deserve to have anyone stealing what was rightfully hers.

 

As for SummerBreeze not tolerating infidelity (I had, several times tolerated it from my H) and then purposefully being with a MM, that to me is as bad as being highly intolerant of a physically abusive man, and then hooking up with one who you knew physically abused family members... it's not good enough to simply say, well as long as he doesn't beat ME, it's all good, I'll turn a blind eye to what wrongdoings he is up to.

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Posted
What 'bad and unavoidable habits learned by living with a liar/cheater' have you managed to undo?

 

Great point about ceasing to be a fantastic R once infidelity occurs...

 

Paranoia, in a word! Jumping to conclusions based on suspicion. My hunches were 99% right previously, but it became a natural instinct to read too much in to every thing. Also, viewing every woman as potential 'competition'. Hard to explain this one but he left me so insecure (deliberately) that every female was potentially a threat to my equilibrium.

 

I was scared of a small disagreement turning in to something enormous, my ex used to enjoy punishing me by pursuing more worthy females...

 

There are so many, it became ingrained in to everyday life, sadly. There is no way I could entertain going back to that and would definitely rather be alone.

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Posted

I stayed with my husband because i wanted to.

 

he left so soon after his affair ended that we didn't really have time to reconcile in any meaningful way...there were other things that were more important hat we had to deal with first. While he was away, I realized ow much I did want to stay with him and how much he meant to me ( due to a miscommunication, I thought he'd been injured/killed)...kind of makes you reevaluate thins when that happens...

 

as for blaming the other woman...

each situation is different...some married men/women lie, some tell the truth, and for some it's a moot point because the other man/woman knows anyway...

 

but something that I have always found to be kind of odd is the way some other women ( or other men too) will say " it's not my fault...if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else" but then will go on to say " we didn't set out t have an affair, but we loved each other and couldn't help it"...which is it?

ah well...in the end, perhaps it doesn't matter all that much anyway

Posted
That's another thing that many mm encourage........fear of the BS. Mine sure did. The stories he told me to make me fear her........were lies. Yes he even told me a story about a gun, there was no gun.

 

 

seems some even try to make the betrayed spouse out to be some kind of evil person who deserves to get hurt...

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Posted
I stayed with my husband because i wanted to.

 

he left so soon after his affair ended that we didn't really have time to reconcile in any meaningful way...there were other things that were more important hat we had to deal with first. While he was away, I realized ow much I did want to stay with him and how much he meant to me ( due to a miscommunication, I thought he'd been injured/killed)...kind of makes you reevaluate thins when that happens...

 

as for blaming the other woman...

each situation is different...some married men/women lie, some tell the truth, and for some it's a moot point because the other man/woman knows anyway...

 

but something that I have always found to be kind of odd is the way some other women ( or other men too) will say " it's not my fault...if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else" but then will go on to say " we didn't set out t have an affair, but we loved each other and couldn't help it"...which is it?

ah well...in the end, perhaps it doesn't matter all that much anyway

 

 

Just out of curiosity FS, what your thoughts on how you'd react if it did happen to you? Did you think you'd definitely go or did you give consideration to the fact it might be something you could get over?

 

That would certainly make you re evaluate things, thinking he'd been injured. That must have been beyond horrible thinking there was so much unresolved.

Posted
Just out of curiosity FS, what your thoughts on how you'd react if it did happen to you? Did you think you'd definitely go or did you give consideration to the fact it might be something you could get over?

 

That would certainly make you re evaluate things, thinking he'd been injured. That must have been beyond horrible thinking there was so much unresolved.

 

 

this is going to sound so silly, but I never thought much about it...I think that if I had been asked what i would do, I would have said that I would leave ( immediate response) but if I had really thought about it, i may well have aid that I'd try and work things out if the affair ended, but would only stay if things changed drastically

 

i wonder how many people who are newly married really seriously consider their spouse cheating on them? maybe it's seen as something hypothetical that will never happen?

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Posted

I read the last few posts and then figured I'd better go back to where I left off yesterday. I have not read everything but I've read enough that it appears to have gone a bit OT.

 

I'm probably not going to be able to respond to every post so one thing I'm not going to do it reiterate what I've written about my own situation again. It's been written and it's how I feel. Anyone's welcome to disagree but me writing it again isn't going to change your mind and you asking me again isn't going to change my mind.

 

Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

Someone said they thought infidelity wasn't something most couples talk about before getting M. I disagree with that through my own experience. It's actually something that comes up in forums and conversations with friends fairly often and I have never met anyone who hasn't approached the subject with their intended before they got M. I figure it's as important as talking about kids, health and a million other things that set boundaries and put a guide out for the future. To me, and just about anyone else I've come across, it would be unusual not to talk about it.

 

Again thanks to all for their input.

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