Being the OW

[Bailey14]

On another thread we started to talk about how an OW justifies her relationship with a MM. How do you justify it?

[woinlove]

I can't say I justified it when I was an OW. I was selfish and didn't feel I had to prove my actions to be right or just. There were certain conditions I had - I would not lie or hide our relationship. So to continue, he had to separate from his W pretty quickly as I wasn't one to avoid calling him at home or do any sneaking around. But I didn't really justify being with a MM, I just did it because I wanted to and I was selfish.

 

Do you feel you need to justify your A, Bailey?

[Bailey14]

I can't say I justified it when I was an OW. I was selfish and didn't feel I had to prove my actions to be right or just. There were certain conditions I had - I would not lie or hide our relationship. So to continue, he had to separate from his W pretty quickly as I wasn't one to avoid calling him at home or do any sneaking around. But I didn't really justify being with a MM, I just did it because I wanted to and I was selfish.

 

Do you feel you need to justify your A, Bailey?

 

 

I was asked, very respectfully, on another thread, to explain my A but, I was concerned that I would be reprimanded for hyjacking the original thread. I decided to start another thread in order to continue the discussion. To answer your question.....I don't try to justify my A. I know it is wrong but, I choose to continue the relationship.

[Summer Breeze]

I didn't justify it. I fell in love with him and when he approached the subject of an A I did much like woinlove did. I refused to lie or sneak around. I called him at any time and he always took my calls. I didn't know his W personally but we had some common acquaintances and I didn't hide anything from them either. There were quite a few ddays and 1 was actually from his mother after he took me to meet her. I fell in love and we had a R. His R with his W and what they did with it was up to them. I never stopped dating SGs and I never allowed myself to be consumed by the A. When I was done I walked away.

[woinlove]

I was asked, very respectfully, on another thread, to explain my A but, I was concerned that I would be reprimanded for hyjacking the original thread. I decided to start another thread in order to continue the discussion. To answer your question.....I don't try to justify my A. I know it is wrong but, I choose to continue the relationship.

 

Thanks, I hadn't followed the other thread. I didn't feel it was wrong when I was an OW, because I really didn't care about the BW. I just wasn't that connected to others, except for my close friends, and, as I said, I was selfish. I've changed and now would care not only about the BW (even without knowing anything about her, I just like to try to be kind and respectful to others who have done me no harm) but I now would also care about MM and would not want our R to bring out dishonesty in him.

 

I do find it difficult to imagine continuing to be the OW when you know it is wrong. I imagine that causes some internal damage, whether noticed at the time or not. While there may be no justification, no reason that will turn what you see as a wrong into a right and just action, but there usually are rationalizations that make it more palatable for a while. I had some of those at the time, but they were more the way I felt than rationalizations. For example, I felt his lying was on him and nothing to do with me - but the reason I felt that way is because I really didn't feel that connected to others and have to admit I didn't really love him enough to care that he had to lie about our R. At the time I thought I loved him though.

[frozensprouts]

Bailey,

in the other thread, you stated that you don't want to be the reason their marriage ends...

but the paradox of what you are saying is that your relationship with him could very well end up being the reason that it ends...

 

bailey...you know i think the world of you and want you to be happy, but are you really able to divest yourself from the possible negative effects of being with a married guy?

[Bailey14]

Bailey,

in the other thread, you stated that you don't want to be the reason their marriage ends...

but the paradox of what you are saying is that your relationship with him could very well end up being the reason that it ends...

 

bailey...you know i think the world of you and want you to be happy, but are you really able to divest yourself from the possible negative effects of being with a married guy?

 

How wonderful to read your post, FS. You know how much I adore you! Perhaps I am naive but, the most recent phase of our relationship is now over two years old. We are extremely discreet. I do not believe she will ever find out about us.....she knows we are "friends"........she will never discover the true nature of our relationship. He is very good to her and gives her no reason to suspect anything untoward.

[ThatJustHappened]

On another thread we started to talk about how an OW justifies her relationship with a MM. How do you justify it?

 

If something is just plain right then it doesn't need justification. If you feel the need to justify your affair, then you already know that you're doing something wrong.

[Ladydrib]

Love is more respected than marriage.

 

I like this thought process. If there is not love, is there really a marriage? How long is the appropriate amount of time to try to find love with your spouse before walking away? Or is it appropriate to live the rest of your life without love, just to honor the commitment of marriage? In my opinion, affairs are not a good thing for anyone and I would never view an affair as an appropriate solution to a loveless marriage. I also do not have the mindset that many people seem to have, regarding staying married just because you made a commitment. I believe the commitment of marriage is to maintain it and work on it to make it better if it goes bad. But we also have a commitment to ourselves to leave if all efforts have been exhausted, unsuccessfully, to improve a marriage. So I agree, love is a higher priority than marriage.

[TaraMaiden]

I will state what I have openly stated many times, on forum:

I do not for one single moment believe any person can remain completely faithful to one person, and one person alone, for a lifetime.

I sincerely believe humans are not naturally monogamous, we're not programmed, or wired that way.

if we were, we'd all still be with our 'first loves' and the term "til death do us part" would actually mean something.

 

My parents were married for 57 years.

but I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that they were both unfaithful.

What made them work and stay together, I do not have insight to. But they did, until my father's death in 2010, three months off his 90th birthday.

That was their choice and decision.

 

Monogamy is a socially-imposed dictum. We're conditioned by many numerous factors to remain faithful to one (current) partner, and as such, in marriage, we commit to a legally-binding contract to that end.

Even if we marry in church, once divorce is decided upon, It's a matter for the legal courts to dissolve that union.

 

My point is simple:

Don't marry.

 

if you cannot uphold the sanctity of a promise made in the eyes of the law (or even the church, though that concerns me less, not being Theistically religious) then don't make that promise.

If you find yourself greatly tempted to break it - then take action to either prevent that from happening, or severing the ties that bind.

 

I see nothing wrong with having multiple partners, or even just one, and enjoying that union for as long as you both happily want.

I'm just against broken promises and the deceit.

That's all.

[frozensprouts]

I like this thought process. If there is not love, is there really a marriage? How long is the appropriate amount of time to try to find love with your spouse before walking away? Or is it appropriate to live the rest of your life without love, just to honor the commitment of marriage? In my opinion, affairs are not a good thing for anyone and I would never view an affair as an appropriate solution to a loveless marriage. I also do not have the mindset that many people seem to have, regarding staying married just because you made a commitment. I believe the commitment of marriage is to maintain it and work on it to make it better if it goes bad. But we also have a commitment to ourselves to leave if all efforts have been exhausted, unsuccessfully, to improve a marriage. So I agree, love is a higher priority than marriage.

 

I agree wholeheartedly...

I don't think many would think that it's a great and wonderful thing for two people to stay in a marriage where there is no love...if that is the case, then divorce, don't cheat.

[j'adore]

I justify my relationship because WE fell in love, before we had an affair. Yeah simples. If he was in love with his BS or I was in love with my BS I would NOT have fallen in love.

[2sure]

He had an affair with his partners teenage daughter while they were living together? On my planet that's called pedophilia or at least rape ..but I understand why you're ok with it.

[j'adore]

I agree wholeheartedly...

I don't think many would think that it's a great and wonderful thing for two people to stay in a marriage where there is no love...if that is the case, then divorce, don't cheat.

In an ideal world, that is great, but then, what happens is that you meet someone and fall in love and then life becomes very complicated. It is not like you just always want sex, it can be the most powerful force like nothing you ever felt before. I am sorry, maybe you have never felt this, but I swear, that is what we felt. And we still feel this. It makes me so sad and makes me so happy that I experienced it. I don't expect you to understand but I love MM more than I have ever loved anyone in my life (cry) and I can't let that go.... and neither can he. Now what? We make a shed load of other people miserable? I am talking to you from the heart.

[scatterd]

I beleive two people get married because of love or they would not do it. If you do not plan on keeping your vows then you should not marry to begin with. Their is plenty of single men in the world. I never had a problem meeting a single man when I was not married. But in my neck of the woods people really judge cheating. I guess you can say religion and morals are exspected here.

Edited September 22, 2012 by scatterd

[woinlove]

I like this thought process. If there is not love, is there really a marriage? How long is the appropriate amount of time to try to find love with your spouse before walking away? Or is it appropriate to live the rest of your life without love, just to honor the commitment of marriage? In my opinion, affairs are not a good thing for anyone and I would never view an affair as an appropriate solution to a loveless marriage. I also do not have the mindset that many people seem to have, regarding staying married just because you made a commitment. I believe the commitment of marriage is to maintain it and work on it to make it better if it goes bad. But we also have a commitment to ourselves to leave if all efforts have been exhausted, unsuccessfully, to improve a marriage. So I agree, love is a higher priority than marriage.

 

I don't think many have the mindset of staying married just because you made a commitment. In fact, it would seem that cheaters have more of this mindset than many, as they chose to stay married and have an A, rather than end the M.

 

Many people feel if the M is not fulfilling, then one should seriously consider divorce. What people who value honesty can't understand is why insist on staying married and making your spouse believe you still have a monogamous marriage while carrying on a secret affair? The question is what is so important that one would rather behave in a dishonest and deceitful way than end the marriage. I know some answer money is more important - but personally, I think one should put a higher priority on one's integrity and honesty.

[TaraMaiden]

Many OW take the position that they are not lying despite helping a lying cheating MM. It is similar to driving the get away car in a bank robbery. Technically they did not rob the bank.

 

That doesn't apply in this case, though.

 

 

 

:laugh:

 

back atcha.

[Ladydrib]

I don't think many have the mindset of staying married just because you made a commitment. In fact, it would seem that cheaters have more of this mindset than many, as they chose to stay married and have an A, rather than end the M.

 

Many people feel if the M is not fulfilling, then one should seriously consider divorce. What people who value honesty can't understand is why insist on staying married and making your spouse believe you still have a monogamous marriage while carrying on a secret affair? The question is what is so important that one would rather behave in a dishonest and deceitful way than end the marriage. I know some answer money is more important - but personally, I think one should put a higher priority on one's integrity and honesty.

 

I agree with this. Money should not be a factor. Divorce should happen before getting involved with someone else. I agree 100%. Although it's not as cut and dry as that. What about when one spouse is in love and the other is not? The one who is not loved does not understand how love is not there when they feel it. The one who is no longer in love feels guilty and obligated to stay and continue to work on the marriage in hopes of sharing the feeling. When vulnerability and opportunity collide, raw human nature factors in, and all of a sudden you have the foundation for an affair. Doesn't mean you're not communicating with your spouse that there are big problems. It also does not mean you are not getting the process of divorce rolling. But it is still an affair. It is not appropriate. It does not make someone a bad person. It is not ideal. And it is toxic.

[woinlove]

In an ideal world' date=' that is great, but then, what happens is that you meet someone and fall in love and then life becomes very complicated. It is not like you just always want sex, it can be the most powerful force like nothing you ever felt before. I am sorry, maybe you have never felt this, but I swear, that is what we felt. And we still feel this. It makes me so sad and makes me so happy that I experienced it. I don't expect you to understand but I love MM more than I have ever loved anyone in my life (cry) and I can't let that go.... and neither can he. Now what? We make a shed load of other people miserable? I am talking to you from the heart.[/quote']

 

Actually, I have felt like that a number of times, including with my H, but also with others. It can start with a spark, an attraction, a glance, and if one chooses to pursue it, it may or may not proceed to be madly in love and obsessed even, and then, it may or may not proceed to being truly in love.

 

I learned decades ago that I could either pursue the spark, attraction, glance or let it go. I definitely let it go with husband's of my friends, relatives, coworkers, and now, with husband's of anyone. That's the beauty of being an adult, one can make choices. I honestly never have to worry about ending up f-ing my daughter's H because I am so worked up I can't control myself, because I have confidence in my ability to make loving choices where my family is concerned. Feels great to know that about oneself.

 

It is rather sad to know that some adults feel they just can't control themselves and that things simply happen to them and they end up f-ing their daughter's husband behind her back. Yes, it happens. People who it happens to are immature, selfish, and incapable of real love. Fortunately most people are not quite that selfish, but may still be selfish enough to end up f-ing their friend's H, and certainly a not insignificant number are selfish enough to end up f-ing a stranger's H. I know because I was one of them. It is a choice - except for those who have a mental impairment. For example, with Alzheimer's one can betray one's spouse without fully comprehending what one is doing. I'm not talking about those with such an impairment. Just people who knowingly make selfish choices.

[scatterd]

I was taught that if it does not work you are to divorce

and then move on. I do not see that being hard but that is the way I was raised. If was to do it and got caught it most likely would be rubbed in my face and I probably would be viewed as not a good person. My whole family does not believe in it. It does not mean no body does it

or has never done it before. Put it this way at one time polygamy was practiced. Kind of funny how that was OK at one time though. I bet everybody knows where I am LOL. I

[woinlove]

I agree with this. Money should not be a factor. Divorce should happen before getting involved with someone else. I agree 100%. Although it's not as cut and dry as that. What about when one spouse is in love and the other is not? The one who is not loved does not understand how love is not there when they feel it. The one who is no longer in love feels guilty and obligated to stay and continue to work on the marriage in hopes of sharing the feeling. When vulnerability and opportunity collide, raw human nature factors in, and all of a sudden you have the foundation for an affair. Doesn't mean you're not communicating with your spouse that there are big problems. It also does not mean you are not getting the process of divorce rolling. But it is still an affair. It is not appropriate. It does not make someone a bad person. It is not ideal. And it is toxic.

 

I don't think in terms of bad people, good people. I think in terms of bad choices, good choices. Some people make bad choices and end up hurting a lot of people. Some people make better choices. Some people make bad choices but learn to make better choices. Some people never learn and continue to make bad choices. I don't know what you mean about cut and dried? Some choices are better than others. Not cheating is a better choice than cheating.

[scatterd]

Soorry My post would not let me correct it.

[woinlove]

Love can not be promised. Really, the vows of marriage are nothing but a statement of intention. Such things can not be promised. To hold someone to such a vow is quite ridiculous IMO. To expect someone to keep such a vow merely because they once made it is too.

 

My H and I promised honesty and openness with each other, where we discussed in great detail what we meant by that, and we have continued to discuss it periodically throughout our M. So being dishonest and deceitful would definitely be breaking our promise to each other and, yes, we would each hold the other responsible if they did that. I don't see what the problem is. Are you saying we are doing the impossible? That you would be incapable of keeping such a promise yourself?

[woinlove]

Many OW take the position that they are not lying despite helping a lying cheating MM. It is similar to driving the get away car in a bank robbery. Technically they did not rob the bank.:laugh:

 

Yes, I know that, but to care about helping a lying MM, one has to be able to really care. I think I explained that my caring was limited at the time.

[j'adore]

I beleive two people get married because of love or they would not do it. If you do not plan on keeping your vows then you should not marry to begin with. Their is plenty of single men in the world. I never had a problem meeting a single man when I was not married. But in my neck of the woods people really judge cheating. I guess you can say religion and morals are exspected here.

 

Sorry you are very simple in your thinking. In the most superficially RELIGIOUS of society things just go underground. Just because you hear of something more often only means that people are less scared of repercussions. NOT THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.