taiko Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 It seems like Catholics have the strictest area of Christianity. No divorce, no masturbating no sex before marriage no abortion. It just seems like so much I was just watching Walk The Line were a women in the store gets on June Carter about her getting a divorce. It reminds me that most Christian churches, including most Baptist ones hold to those core values, with the lust versus masturbation argument. About the only difference are that a local pastor may decide to remarry you without an official tribunal declaring the first marriage null and void for some specific reason, they may not say anything about many methods of birth control and they would not spell out rules for sexual contact between a husband and wife.
TaraMaiden Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 It's not that they don't enjoy it as much as when you are older you probably can't get wet or as wet, and you aren't as flexible (I am 21 and not flexible lol but in normal cases lol) and I just feel like its such a late start. Sweetheart, I'm sorry but - I really just can't believe how ignorant you are about some things.... Really, you need to ask before popping your mouth off like that. here I am at gone 50, and trust me - the best is 'a happening thing' -!! 1
mercy Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE=ImperfectionisBeauty;4277359]It's not that they don't enjoy it as much as when you are older you probably can't get wet or as wet, and you aren't as flexible (I am 21 and not flexible lol but in normal cases lol) and I just feel like its such a late start. ahhh lass, you make me belly laugh with your posts! Thank you! If a woman waited 50 years to have sex she may just injure the poor man! Try yoga for flexibility. 2
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Sweetheart, I'm sorry but - I really just can't believe how ignorant you are about some things.... Really, you need to ask before popping your mouth off like that. here I am at gone 50, and trust me - the best is 'a happening thing' -!! Ok you're 50 but was your first sexual experience at 50? That is what I'm saying. I don't care about people who lost their virginity at 15 and were in sexual relationships or having fairly regular sex. I am talking about people who listened to the bible and waited until marriage for sex and I said what if you don't get married until you are 50, then you're older and haven't had sex ever and you probably aren't as good as you would have been at 20. I didn't say that you can't have good sex at 50 but I'm saying to just start having sex at 50 is a pretty late start.
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Yeah, you are misinformed. Do some reading it will help a great deal. I don't really need to read about 50 year olds having sex.. I'm 21 I didn't wait. Maybe when I'm 50 I will really care a ton but right now I'm in my sexual prime hahaha. I only say that 50 is old to start because I lost my virginity this past February at 21 and I still feel behind so lord knows what it would be like to be 50 having sex for the first time.
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I always wondered about this too, and what about people who never get married? Are you supposed to just never masturbate or have sex ever in your whole life?? That just seems unrealistic. I mean I am not a virgin and I am Christian but I don't think that God will necessarily punish me because I have premarital sex. I don't want to wait for marriage, that seems so far away to me and I have needs haha. But you don't believe that God will extend the same … leniency? to gay people that you expect to be extended to you? 3
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 But you don't believe that God will extend the same … leniency? to gay people that you expect to be extended to you? I never said a thing about what happens to gay people. I suggest you go back and reread, I said it is a sin that doesn't mean that it will send a person straight to hell. If you repent then God forgives you and no sin is any bigger than any other sin so I don't think that gay people go to hell for their lifestyle choice as long as they repent. I don't think I'll go to hell for the stuff I've done if I repent. So again HA and goodbye...
mercy Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I never said a thing about what happens to gay people. I suggest you go back and reread, I said it is a sin that doesn't mean that it will send a person straight to hell. If you repent then God forgives you and no sin is any bigger than any other sin so I don't think that gay people go to hell for their lifestyle choice as long as they repent. I don't think I'll go to hell for the stuff I've done if I repent. So again HA and goodbye... What time is church? I'm going now. 1
I'm nuts Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Saying you can't have sex before marriage neither can you masturbate is recipe for disaster because the feelings are so strong, it is a natural feeling, lust, love sex, all natural, and if God created us it was God who put those emotions in us. Anyway, if it is a sin what is the punishment and where is the proof of the punishment? Can someone show me a master baiter that has been punished because they sinned? 1
taiko Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Christians believe that if have faith the Christ has taken the punishment for you. Catholics add in that you must confess the specific event and a priest will tell you what to do to absolve yourself from the sin you committed. and unresolved sin eventually leads to a seperation from God. Some say eternity in hell.
taiko Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 It would be the priest responsibility after he hears your confession. I doubt a Bishop whould ever get envovled to tell his priest that he is too kind hearted, because the Bishop would never know what was confessed. Now super devout might go to their bishop and report a priest as too lax in general.
loveunlimited Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Tax evasion was declared a cardinal sin some time ago - too many italian businessmen were withholding millions from the italian revenue system and seeking absolution...i think that's funny. now we know who decides, but i still don't know what the religious penalty is or what penance they have to carry out. probably a sizeable donation to the church knowing them. 1
taiko Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 No there is no standard, otherwise Catholics may be tempted to read it for themselves and bypass the church at which point they are not Catholics but Protestants or refomationist.
BetheButterfly Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 It is confusing. After I accepted Christ, I made a vow to never have premarital sex again. I don't necessarily know if there's any point-or if I'm already too impure for it all, but I'm trying to get right with God. That's aweome! I think one thing that people don't understand is that God has reasons for what He commands. Many people get hurt in various ways through having premarital sex. Controlling oneself till marriage and then only having sex with one's life-partner is a means of protection against sexual diseases, broken hearts, and unwanted pregnancy. Now, there are some man-made protections as well (condoms and birth control) but it is so healthy and worthy of trust to be committed to and truly love the person you enjoy sex with! That is the allure of many people for marriage, because that is the ideeal... and it's a means of protection, or should be!!! All sin is equal, too. Some churches and people would have you believe that one sin is worse than another sin, but that is not so. Well, I have to disagree with this, because Jesus states that there are some sins that are worse than others... one place is John 19:8-11. However, God forgives, and Jesus forgave all those responsible for killing him (Luke 23:34) That's a part that's always confused me when people focus on homosexuality like it is somehow worse than the other sins. Yeah, I understand that. I don't get that either. Heterosexual relations outside of God's plan is "sin" too. By the way, I LOVE Sy Rogers!!! Here are 2 of his messages. Why Christians Have Sexual Struggles: Sy Rogers So if all sins are equal, and we're all sinners, we're all going to Hell in a hand basket unless someone forgives. Jesus made a point of healing and forgiving those that had faith in Him, no matter the sin. I know I keep laboring the story about the prostitute, (but it's relevant to this thread) but He forgave her. He saw her faith in Him, and that was all it took. For the simple fact that she believed, and had faith that He was the one who could forgive her, He did it. I'm not saying people should just allow themselves to fall at their nature's whim, and do the wrong thing whenever the fancy takes them. I'm just saying that if we didn't need saving, we wouldn't have been given a savior Very good points!!! We're all humans, saved by grace. 3
taiko Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 And if so, was this something written in any scripture? One thing to keep in mind when debating or discussing with Catholics is that they do not hold to scripture alone. The institution of the church and those in apostolic succession, as they see it, also has a role. And ultimately they believe because God has supernaturally made it so, that the Pope and the Magisterium interprets the scripture is correct and true and what you think you understand from the same reading is false. I think part of the reason ex-Catholics is the largest denomination is not only a belief in God is necessary but a belief that the Pope has also been supernaturally bestowed is also necessary if you are to follow the church completely and not just stay because the rituals are what you are used to and to avoid family conflict.
I'm nuts Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 No one has clearly answered the question, so I will pose it again. If it is sin, what is the punishment, forget Jesus forgives, that's a cop out, what exactly is the consequence of the sin, and where is some proof?
taiko Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 You may not accept the theology by faith in Christ is what Christians believe is neccessary for the cost of sins to be paid. As I said before the cost of the sins not being paid from that perspective is eternal seperation from God, better known as hell. Now the Catholic Church has a formal process where you go to the church and ask forgiveness for that specific event,what they call a sacrement and should you die before accomplishing that the soul is thought to be in peril. Christians who believe once saved always saved believe they are covered since God will kow there are no perfect people. Most Christians outside of Catholic dominated coutries are in the middle between running to the priest after every single sinful event and not believing they are covered for everything as long as they still believe in Christ as they will try to do the right thing by God. In any case most of those will not believe masturbation is a sin all by itself nor lust an unforgivable sin (losing faith is the only unforgiveable sin) as the Catholic Church teaches her adherants. Even on the base issue of fornication they may disagree with the state or the Council of Trent on what it means to be married. Sort of like Iran considers men caught with prostitutes to have married them in order to avoid stonning them to death. In a sense if you make a public pronouncement that you are a couple and live together are you married, as you once where. Or are you only married when a state clerk says so or a circuit riding priest finally comes to town, takes your confession, says you are married and records the sacrement for the church.
mercy Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 No one has clearly answered the question, so I will pose it again. If it is sin, what is the punishment, forget Jesus forgives, that's a cop out, what exactly is the consequence of the sin, and where is some proof? Jesus is my soft place to land. A good hand smacking is what I get. It's called shame. The proof? I feel sorrow. Want to see it? It's written all over my face. When I sin I separate myself from God. Not a good place for me to be. I desire to be in His presence to feel Him within me, guiding me, directing me and most of all loving me. When I sin I move away from those things in shame. But God in His loving mercy always leads me back to Him. Such a precious gift is salvation and forgiveness. 2
Author Titanwolf Posted September 24, 2012 Author Posted September 24, 2012 When I sin I separate myself from God. That reminds me. I read during my research, that "hell" is simply a separation from God, not the fiery inferno that it's portrayed to be. If that is indeed correct, why would it need to be transformed into something that can only, ultimately, bring fear amongst "believers"?. At least here I get educated answers though. When I come across someone preaching to me in real life, no one seems to know the answers to my questions.
taiko Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Because if you have never known a relationship with God why would you fear not having one in the future?
Author Titanwolf Posted September 24, 2012 Author Posted September 24, 2012 Because if you have never known a relationship with God why would you fear not having one in the future? Exactly. That doesn't generate any fear. Perhaps if Christianity was created during a more civilized time, there wouldn't be so much misinformation.
loveunlimited Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 There is one very effective way to control the masses; that is to use fear. Governments use it by generating fear by ploughing countless millions into the armed forces and banging on about terrorism and national threats, and the church uses it by generating fear and making all manner of threats about what happens to you AFTER you die. So if the government doesn't scare you out of your wits while you're alive, then the church makes sure god will after you're dead. Me? I don't scare easy. 1
Author Titanwolf Posted September 24, 2012 Author Posted September 24, 2012 There is one very effective way to control the masses; that is to use fear. Governments use it by generating fear by ploughing countless millions into the armed forces and banging on about terrorism and national threats, and the church uses it by generating fear and making all manner of threats about what happens to you AFTER you die. So if the government doesn't scare you out of your wits while you're alive, then the church makes sure god will after you're dead. Me? I don't scare easy. I agree. I find it strange how, if I'm so troublesome to God, why doesn't he destroy me after I die? I mean he did create me after all. Why does one have to suffer, when they could just be eradicated?. God isn't a sadist "apparently".
BetheButterfly Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I agree. I find it strange how, if I'm so troublesome to God, why doesn't he destroy me after I die? I mean he did create me after all. Why does one have to suffer, when they could just be eradicated?. God isn't a sadist "apparently". Hell is an interesting subject. To me, it mystifies me as well. First of all, I'm a pacifist, so the idea of any type of torture or pain inflicted on another being really bothers me. My personal opinion goes against mainstream Christian thought in that I personally believe that when God sends people to hell, that the time is temporary, and then they are no more. Now, I understand why most Christians consider hell to be forever, but if you think about it, if one's last memory of existence is hell, then that would basically be forever, right? For example, in Matthew 25 when Jesus basically said that those who don't help others would go to eternal punishment, I personally think that those last moments of existence in punishment would be eternal for them. If, after their "eternity" of punishment, God merely took them out of existence (and there is no awareness of existence when one does not exist), then that would be "eternal." Anyways, I don't obey God because I'm afraid of hell. I don't even understand the concept enough to be afraid of it. I obey God because I love Him!!! I also believe His guidelines are for helping people. Just like my parents telling me not to touch a hot stove, I believe God's commands are to protect people from getting hurt. 2
I'm nuts Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Jesus is my soft place to land. A good hand smacking is what I get. It's called shame. The proof? I feel sorrow. Want to see it? It's written all over my face. When I sin I separate myself from God. Not a good place for me to be. I desire to be in His presence to feel Him within me, guiding me, directing me and most of all loving me. When I sin I move away from those things in shame. But God in His loving mercy always leads me back to Him. Such a precious gift is salvation and forgiveness. But we all sin and make mistakes, every single one of us, so are the different levels of sin? A little kid 'sins' when he does naughty things, is a childs punishment the same as an adults who should know better? If one thinks that Jesus forgives all the time then they don't have much to worry about because they will know their sin will be forgiven, that doesn't seem like much a deterrent to me. How do you know your sin has been forgiven?
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