To go NC or not to go NC?

[Got it]

The S/D period is really a case by case basis.

 

I did not stay NC once he moved out. BUT I was then heavily in the loop about every twist and turn, emotional up and down, etc. I am trying to reflect back and see if I would do it differently . . . . I am not sure.

 

It would have been easier definitely. But there were a number of experiences, memories, etc. that would not have happened if we were NC.

 

S/D was by far MUCH more stressful than the EMR was. But I am not sure if I would have wished it away.

[2sunny]

I think he should be seeing a counselor. He's using YOU as his counselor - but you are allowing that.

 

He has so much of his confusion to sort through. I would encourage him to seek help...then I'd step away for a good long time.

 

Go have fun with your SG.

[AnotherRound]

I think he should be seeing a counselor. He's using YOU as his counselor - but you are allowing that.

 

He has so much of his confusion to sort through. I would encourage him to seek help...then I'd step away for a good long time.

 

Go have fun with your SG.

 

ExMM is seeing a Psychologist, regularly, now. And has been since about March or April. So, it's not just me, but yes, it is me sometimes. I think I said this before, but I think he bounces things off me bc he knows that I know him on an intimate level, and so my feedback is important to him, and he does take it to heart. Well, now he does... he didn't all those years ago when I tried to help him see the light, so to say, lol.

 

And, I still plan on dating SGs. Had a date set tonight, but SG got called into work on an emergency, so... night home. But, he said he would call me tomorrow to reschedule.

[AnotherRound]

From what you've posted, he sounds like a man who has a lot of stuff to work out before he is ready for a relationship. It seems to me that he wasn't all in on the divorce, it wasn't his choice. Even if he gets this divorce, it doesn't mean he is ready to go. From what you've posted......you would be wise to protect yourself first and step back, he has work to do on himself. It's not a dig but you have work to do too. You've been off and on with him for 7 years, that is a long time and it should be addressed why.

 

Good point. I don't think he was all in the divorce initially, and says that he isn't sure why that was as all he had wanted for 10 years prior was to get his child raised so that he COULD get divorced.

 

But yes, he has some confusion still, just less of it than I was seeing before. I agree about protecting myself, and that's what I'm trying to do, even if it seems I'm doing badly at it, lol. And yes, I ALWAYS have work to do on myself, that's a given.

 

I agree, it is something that needs to be looked at. I do think it makes it a bit different that his stbxw was aware, in that we were never lying to her. I'm glad about that now, even though her lack of inaction frustrated me (for my own reasons, but not bc I wanted him to D her and come to me) as did his. I'm glad that I am not having to figure out why I would participate in something deceptive, as I think what I did participate in is easier to process.

 

At this point, the only thing I can come up with as to why is because I loved him and we connected so well. I'm not sure that there is much more to it than that? We weren't deceiving his stbxw, so, now that I think about it, it was just a relationship - not really an A. And I was in it for the same reasons that I am ever in any relationship, bc it added to my life and didn't take away from my life. I think my walking away was more just frustration at both of them for living a life neither wanted bc nobody wanted to make the first move, or take the responsibility, of ending it (and a lot of that for both of them seems to be due to their child and their belief that a child needs married parents to turn out well).

[AnotherRound]

The S/D period is really a case by case basis.

 

Is S/D separation Divorce?

 

I did not stay NC once he moved out. BUT I was then heavily in the loop about every twist and turn, emotional up and down, etc. I am trying to reflect back and see if I would do it differently . . . . I am not sure.

 

ExMM is moved out, and has been since February. And that's how I feel, that I'm watching him work it all out in his head and his heart. It's hard for me bc I honestly did become frustrated with him for not just knowing what he needed to do. That's my issue in that I tend to expect people to make their decisions and take it as it comes - projecting MY way of dealing with things onto him. But, honestly, I'm no different than him in that we both just churn things over and over, trying to know as much as possible to make a decision. That's what I've seen him doing over the past 8 months or so in the brief contact we have had.

 

It would have been easier definitely. But there were a number of experiences, memories, etc. that would not have happened if we were NC.

 

That's where I am now. Yes, it would probably be easier to step out and let him handle it on his own, as I wouldn't have to be aware of all of the ups and downs. But, then I think, if I do that, I won't get to see his process, which may be important to any decisions that I have to make down the road. And, I am eager for him to land where he is going to land, even if that isn't with me, simply bc I hate seeing anyone flailing about, it's exhausting for me to watch, lol. Especially when the "answer" looks pretty clear from where I'm standing (I know that's easy to say bc I'm not him and not in it).

 

And his thing is, time is wasting. He feels the constant need to live fully bc of his age - which is a lot of why the marriage situation was driving him crazy, he felt like he was just wasting time. Also, the reason he entered into an A too. I honestly think that if he was younger and his child was to be out of the house when exMM was in his 30s or 40s, he may have held out and NOT had the As, but just suffered through it until he could cut himself away cleanly. But, in his 50s, he is hyper aware that he is on the downhill slope now, and that factors into his rushing things a lot I think.

S/D was by far MUCH more stressful than the EMR was. But I am not sure if I would have wished it away.

 

Interesting. Why was it more stressful? Just the ups and downs? I do find it hard to hear exMM having so much turmoil. As a person on the outside looking in, I know that he has made mistakes, but I also know he has goodness in him too. And he seems to not be seeing that now, and that saddens me. I'm all about him taking his part of the issues prior to the A, and his part about having the A - but I hate to see him not allow his stbxw to carry her own bag of crap that she added to the problem too. I think he's past that somewhat now, and is balancing out, seeing the situation more clearly - in that it was BOTH of them that created the problems and didn't fix them.

 

And, I don't want to not be supportive if that is what he needs. I know that is something that he has really appreciated about our relationship since his main complaint about the marriage was the lack of communication and emotional intimacy. So, maybe he is trying to see if that is still there? As in, if it is, then he would feel confident about trying a relationship with me again, but if it's not, he wouldn't? That's just a guess on my part. But, I don't want him to think that I am now like his stbxw, that I don't want to communicate about anything - as I KNOW that is so important to him. I maybe just need to make clear to him that I am still that same communicative person, just that we need to set some clear boundaries until his divorce is completely final and he is truly "ready" to move on?

[AnotherRound]

My interpretation is you are back in the affair - this time it is an emotional one but would become a physical one if he showed up at your door.

 

With help from people here, I have concluded that it was never an Affair in the first place, so I can't be "back in it". I am talking to him, yes, so I am re-involved with him. And as for physical, I can say that I won't have sex with him unless I want to, lol.

 

You have no desire to have no contact. You feel as if you are THE only one who knows him, you are THE one who can help him and if you were to NOT have contact, he may find another OW and you don't want that to happen.

 

No, I don't have desire to have NC, I never have. I don't think any of the rest of what you wrote, and if he finds a girlfriend (it won't be an OW as he is divorcing and has been moved out for 8 months), then I'm perfectly okay with that. Hence me telling him that he should take some time to be be single again, and see what he wants to do.

 

He is swinging wildly between working on the marriage and now, POOF, being ready to be done. You want him so badly to be DONE you will do whatever you can to nudge him in the direction of you.

 

Um, no, lol. He spent 7 months trying to reconcile, then decided that he doesn't want to try anymore, and then called me. I wouldn't call 7 months trying "swinging wildly"... there has not been back and forth like some are wanting to portray it. 7 months of attempts at trying to try to reconcile (not reconciliation, as no discussions), then 2 weeks of deciding he is done trying (but still trying to figure out why he ever considered reconciliation to begin with), and now signing the divorce paper work. I am not nudging him in any direction - and certainly not towards me. I could probably be with him right this second if I wanted to (I'm guessing, but he might say no), and I'm not. And I could have been with him throughout the time that he was with the new OW, but I wasn't. You're way off on this one, sorry, lol.

 

My interpretation is you want us to know how much HE needs you and how HE wants to start the new life with you RIGHT NOW.

 

Again, no. This is odd to me, where did you get this? I don't need him to need me, or want him to. In fact, I've said how much easier my life would be if he didn't! And as for "right now"... if that was the case, I don't think I would be not seeing him and not trying to have a relationship with him RIGHT NOW.

 

He has no business being in ANY relationship right now because he is just looking for a soft place to land.

 

Maybe.

 

Let him figure it out. Tell him WHEN he is divorced and has had a minimum of 6 months of living alone then you will be willing to start dating him (not living with him and not having sex with him right off the bat).

 

I don't plan on living with anyone any time soon (I've lived on my own for the past 11 years, and I like it a lot!). As far as giving him a time frame, I'm not really keen on that, as it seems pretty arbitrary.

 

This is what I get from reading your posts. I know you believe your situation is different and unique. It isn't that different from the many, many other OW posts.

 

Again, I'm apparently not an OW by definition? And the only thing I think is different and/or unique is that we were not deceiving the stbxw.

 

Doesn't matter to me whether you jump into bed with him tomorrow or you end the communication and move on with your life (really move on and not 'pretend' to be interested in dating other guys). I am just giving MY viewpoint and I am pretty sure you won't agree

 

 

 

Agree, agree agree!

 

I'm not pretending to be interested in other guys... did you read my posts? I am dating one guy that I really like, but our religious beliefs are a big enough issue for him (not really me) that he has not wanted to get more serious with me - that's not my choice. I'd be his gf in a second!

 

Thank you for your viewpoint. It's not that I don't agree, I just think that you are maybe not understanding the situation (as I've found happens sometimes here). I think your advice would be great if he and I's situation was different ( as in he had been going back and forth for the past 8 months of trying to see me, but trying to reconcile, which never happened).

[eleanorrigby]

AnotherRound if your conclusion is that your relationship was never an affair, it may be more helpful for your posts to be in another area of the forum.

 

Much of the advice you will get in these areas is most likely going to be coming from an OW or BS viewpoint, which may IMO clutter your threads with things not related to what you are actually going through.

[AnotherRound]

AnotherRound if your conclusion is that your relationship was never an affair, it may be more helpful for your posts to be in another area of the forum.

 

Much of the advice you will get in these areas is most likely going to be coming from an OW or BS viewpoint, which may IMO clutter your threads with things not related to what you are actually going through.

 

I'm thinking that too. I posted here originally simply bc I have always considered it an affair. I'm not really sure how to label it. I do think that is my conclusion though, that it wasn't a "deceptive" affair, so it's a bit different in that way.

 

I'm afraid that posting it on another forum though will lead to me having to explain it all over again to reassure others that it was NOT an affair. And that sounds exhausting, lol. In that, I don't want to spend so much time explaining that stbxw knew, and then having to counter all those who don't believe that she did know. Ya know?

[eleanorrigby]

I'm thinking that too. I posted here originally simply bc I have always considered it an affair. I'm not really sure how to label it. I do think that is my conclusion though, that it wasn't a "deceptive" affair, so it's a bit different in that way.

 

I'm afraid that posting it on another forum though will lead to me having to explain it all over again to reassure others that it was NOT an affair. And that sounds exhausting, lol. In that, I don't want to spend so much time explaining that stbxw knew, and then having to counter all those who don't believe that she did know. Ya know?

 

You may be surprised. I read all over the forum but don't really chime in anywhere but infidelity, OW/OM, and general.

[Tenacity]

Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you have had a bad experience. I'm not sure you understand my situation. There isn't any going back and forth with me, I've not been in a relationship with him for over a year and a half. And, I know the divorce is happening bc it is online and in the newspaper. I don't think I convinced him he needs more time, just he agrred to take some time bc I asked him to re me.

 

It almost sounds to me that you would deem anyone divorced to be not dateable bc they might go back to their spouse? At my age, that would certainly limit my dating pool, lol. If you read my posts, you will see, I haven't been on any sidelines... just living my life and haven't happened to meet anyone I want to commit to yet. I'm confused as to how you came tto some of your conclusions here... did you read my story?

 

Yes, I read your story (no offense meant, but you seem to say that to people whose responses you don't care for). I think I understand it fairly well. However, if I was presumptuous in my reply to you, I apologize.

 

I certainly never said that "anyone divorced is not dateable because they might go back to their spouse". I'm not sure where you arrived at that from my post. I don't date men who are very newly divorced because it takes time to arrive at a healthy place after a divorce so that a new relationship can flourish. Finalizing a divorce makes it legal, but emotional issues don't necessarily end on the day that the paperwork is final. In some cases maybe it might, but your MM's back-and-forth and his thoughts about reconciliation mean that he is not there yet. It takes time.

 

My point was that you said that this man is back and forth regarding his commitment to actually getting a divorce. He has thoughts about 'reconciliation' and then states to you that he 'doesn't know why he ever thought that'. The point is, he DID think it. And it's not unusual in a long-term marriage, even one that wasn't great.

 

I did also understand that you are technically not "in a relationship" with him. But you clearly are emotionally invested in him, and thinking about a future with him, and asking about whether you should have NC or not. I didn't understand the point of the NC in this situation - it seemed to me that you were using it not as a healing process from being in a relationship that's bad for you, but as a tool to get him to change his behavior. It does not take much reading between the lines in your posts to see that you want to end up with him. So, you ARE emotionally in a relationship with him.

 

I understand the feelings - I really do. And the pain.

 

My situation was not the same and I do understand that every situation is different. But I heard much of the same "back and forth" from my MM (who indeed did file for divorce - which I saw online too) and he had "committed" to me that we were discussing being married after his D was final and even rented an apartment together.

 

After all the wishy-washy back and forth, he went back to his W - even though they had both "checked out" of the marriage emotionally years ago. He is still miserable in his marriage, but I make no mistake about it - he is where he wants to be.

 

And you know what? Even if he had gone through with it, I know now it would never have worked between us. Maybe in large part because I would have been a reminder to him about what ended the M. I think once he healed from it, he would have chosen to start over, not go back in past.

 

I see the same thing in this man too. He has a lot of emotional stuff to work through, and it's clear that he is having second thoughts whether this is the right decision. He is still concerned about his stbxw to the point that he worries about her feelings if you are presented to her "too soon". He is emotionally invested and it takes time to heal from that.

 

Until he gets past that, your relationship with him isn't going to work. It's just my opinion, so please take it in that context. It doesn't mean he won't get divorced. He very well may. But he needs to get through the divorce and have time on his own afterwards to heal from it and be in an emotionally strong place. He isn't there. I agree with hockeyfan's words... right now he is just looking for a soft place to land.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Tenacity

[veryhappy]

He wasn't in an open marriage, and he was having an involvement with someone outside the marriage. It was an affair. Just because the spouse was aware, it doesn't mean she actively agreed to it.

[AnotherRound]

Yes, I read your story (no offense meant, but you seem to say that to people whose responses you don't care for). I think I understand it fairly well. However, if I was presumptuous in my reply to you, I apologize.

 

I certainly never said that "anyone divorced is not dateable because they might go back to their spouse". I'm not sure where you arrived at that from my post. I don't date men who are very newly divorced because it takes time to arrive at a healthy place after a divorce so that a new relationship can flourish. Finalizing a divorce makes it legal, but emotional issues don't necessarily end on the day that the paperwork is final. In some cases maybe it might, but your MM's back-and-forth and his thoughts about reconciliation mean that he is not there yet. It takes time.

 

My point was that you said that this man is back and forth regarding his commitment to actually getting a divorce. He has thoughts about 'reconciliation' and then states to you that he 'doesn't know why he ever thought that'. The point is, he DID think it. And it's not unusual in a long-term marriage, even one that wasn't great.

 

I did also understand that you are technically not "in a relationship" with him. But you clearly are emotionally invested in him, and thinking about a future with him, and asking about whether you should have NC or not. I didn't understand the point of the NC in this situation - it seemed to me that you were using it not as a healing process from being in a relationship that's bad for you, but as a tool to get him to change his behavior. It does not take much reading between the lines in your posts to see that you want to end up with him. So, you ARE emotionally in a relationship with him.

 

I understand the feelings - I really do. And the pain.

 

My situation was not the same and I do understand that every situation is different. But I heard much of the same "back and forth" from my MM (who indeed did file for divorce - which I saw online too) and he had "committed" to me that we were discussing being married after his D was final and even rented an apartment together.

 

After all the wishy-washy back and forth, he went back to his W - even though they had both "checked out" of the marriage emotionally years ago. He is still miserable in his marriage, but I make no mistake about it - he is where he wants to be.

 

And you know what? Even if he had gone through with it, I know now it would never have worked between us. Maybe in large part because I would have been a reminder to him about what ended the M. I think once he healed from it, he would have chosen to start over, not go back in past.

 

I see the same thing in this man too. He has a lot of emotional stuff to work through, and it's clear that he is having second thoughts whether this is the right decision. He is still concerned about his stbxw to the point that he worries about her feelings if you are presented to her "too soon". He is emotionally invested and it takes time to heal from that.

 

Until he gets past that, your relationship with him isn't going to work. It's just my opinion, so please take it in that context. It doesn't mean he won't get divorced. He very well may. But he needs to get through the divorce and have time on his own afterwards to heal from it and be in an emotionally strong place. He isn't there. I agree with hockeyfan's words... right now he is just looking for a soft place to land.

 

Thanks. I think I've asked twice (out of a few hundred posts) if someone read my posts - both times I asked, it was sincere as it appeared that they were not understanding the situation. I do agree with your points, IF he had been back and forth more.

 

And, I do NOT want him to end up with me. I am being sincere when I say that I want him to end up where he wants to be - even if it is NOT with me. Trust me, I am not chasing this relationship, as I do realize it is going to be a lot of work, and I'm not sure I have the strength or the energy to put into it (and sometimes not even sure that I want to).

 

I'm just trying to get a good idea of what I'm dealing with, and where he is and where I am, so that I can make good decisions. My decision may be to not have a relationship with him - that is a very real possibility right now, and my decision is much dependent on what he does next, how he handles things, etc.

 

I do want him to consider his stbxw's feelings re me. I think that shows progress in that prior, he did NOT care how she felt bc they were so resentful of one another. I respect that he isn't wanting to hurt her or make her feel more insecure right now. They have a child together, and that is true whether they are together or not, so respecting each other (finally!) isn't a bad thing in my mind.

 

So, thanks for the response. I don't disagree with you, I just think that you are missing some key things in my story that I would consider important factors in determining an "outcome". No big deal, I appreciate your response, and will take your points into consideration.

 

And again, I am sorry that you had a bad situation. That is part of my fear, reinvesting to the level that if we didn't work out, that I would be heartbroken again - whether he left me to be with the stbxw or someone else, wouldn't really matter my feelings.

[Summer Breeze]

It happened so fast I was surprised when it happened. Things were so good between us we could only go backwards from there unless our relationship stopped being an EMR.

 

That's it Trinity. I felt like we were at the top of the proverbial mountain and the only way forward was down. I couldn't bear it being less than it was at that exact 'moment' so it was better to end it then. We'd actually been away for a few days and had a wonderful time. He was looking at his camera and talking about the places we'd gone and people we'd met. He dropped me off at my door and I knew that was it. I thought about it overnight and ended it the next day. He was shocked and I wasn't ready for the reaction. It hurt like he## but I knew it was the right thing to do. It just suddenly wasn't enough and I didn't want to lose myself in what I thought it might become.

 

Sorry girls. I went on a little ramble then!

[AnotherRound]

I agree completely.

 

AR, did you call him up at home? If the wife answered, did you ask for him?

 

The wife avoided talking to you, doesn't sound like an open marriage at all to me. You said she sort of stalked you, again, no open marriage there.

 

 

A person can NOT be in a open marriage unless BOTH parties agree to it.

 

Actually, I did call him at home once and the wife answered, and I asked for him, and he was busy, and she asked if she could take a message. I told her to have him call me, and she did. But only once though, and I didn't call him very often, as we were trying not to throw it in her face. He would also often talk to me from his office at the house, and she often overheard him, and did make some comments to him about the convos he had with me (is that he was "nicer" to me than he was to her when talking).

 

Like I said, I'm not sure what to call it. She was aware, wouldn't agree or disagree (when he suggested an open marriage after years of her refusing to discuss the issues of the marriage at all, she said she didn't think that would work but he should do what he wanted to do). I think she stalked me just to see me? As, she didn't know me, despite our mutual friends. I avoided being in the same places as her (sometimes impossible) bc she did know who I was and that I was seeing him, and we didn't want to flaunt to her that we were seeing each other. Also, we did keep it somewhat on the low down bc he has a child that was old enough to understand and we didn't want his child to hear about it at school, or wherever (as is common in small-small towns).

 

I have always identified it as an affair, but just without the secrecy from the stbxw. No, he didn't give her details, tell her when he was seeing me, but he did tell her that he was seeing someone when she asked after he had told her he would be dating outside the marriage since she seemed happy with the level of communication and intimacy and he was miserable with it and she didn't want to address it. So, she knew he was going to date, she then knew it was me, and she knew the entire 7 years that it was me that it was me. She also knew when we took trips together. We would rent a house in a popular destination, and there were times that she wanted to go to the location and he let her know that he would have "company", so she wouldn't bring their child and show up.

 

So, again, I'm not sure what it would be called. They both wanted to stay married for their child, but she refused to do anything to help make it an enjoyable marriage, and in response to that, he refused to be miserable relationship wise simply bc they were "married".

 

So, I'm willing to consider labels, as I have no idea what it was. And just so some of you know, we literally live only a few blocks from each other, and he has spent a LOT of time at my house. In an effort to not "show it off" to the whole town, we took some precautions to be discreet, but nothing major. And when she called me (a few different times), I DID offer to answer any of her questions honestly. She hung up immediately. If she wasn't in agreement, she could have said so then - and believe it or not, I would have ended it. Had she been deceived, I would have felt bad, but bc she wasn't deceived, and appeared to not care (almost seemed happy that she wasn't having to engage with him emotionally, and they stopped fighting about it bc he didn't want or need it from her anymore), I didn't feel bad. She had the power to change that with one sentence, and chose not to.

 

And no, this isn't justification (as I can hear it coming already), it is simply the truth. And you don't have to believe me, but I know what I felt and what I was comfortable with, and lying to her was not something I would have felt good about OR done. And besides, it's all moot now, bc she had her chances and didn't take them, so now, nobody else will really know what I would have done, bc I didn't get the chance to do that bc she agreed with the arrangement for 7 years with her silence and avoidance. Not to mention, exMM knew that I wouldn't lie to her, we talked about it, and when she called, I told him, and he simply asked her not to call me if she was just going to hang up. So, he wasn't worried about us talking, bc to anyone observing, she just didn't care about the marriage, other than to stay so that they could raise their child.

 

In fact, she recently told him, that had the other OW not gone all bunny boiler on them, that she wouldn't have filed for divorce, even though she knew he was seeing her. Stbxw knew prior that exMM and his new OW/gf (whatever the label is) were taking an extended trip together, and didn't do anything to stop it - but when other people found out in town and were talking about it, and after the other gf showed up and caused some scenes, stbxw decided to file for divorce bc others knew about it. She didn't mind, if it was discreet - but when it wasn't discreet, she was embarrassed and then felt compelled to end the marriage. Not work on the marriage, and of course not discuss anything, and states that she wishes that the other gf wouldn't have freaked out bc they could have remained married.

 

So, you guys label it. I have no idea. I don't even need to know really, except for posting here, I guess. Like I said, that whole marriage was a train wreck, and honestly, dysfunctional. I have never understood it, and probably never will. Stbxw is a very different person than I am, and she and her behaviors are hard for me to understand at all. So, I've pretty much given up on even trying, bc again, it's all pretty moot now. Other than I totally understand why exMM was frustrated - as that type of person (I liken it to PollyAnna syndrome, but epic) would frustrate me too if I was in an intimate relationship with them.

 

So, I don't know the label. I'm willing to stay on this forum, bc It has my story, and I like most of the people here, and they get it. I'm not sure it belongs in a more general forum as it is definitely outside the "traditional" relationship model. I'm open to suggestions...

[AnotherRound]

That's it Trinity. I felt like we were at the top of the proverbial mountain and the only way forward was down. I couldn't bear it being less than it was at that exact 'moment' so it was better to end it then. We'd actually been away for a few days and had a wonderful time. He was looking at his camera and talking about the places we'd gone and people we'd met. He dropped me off at my door and I knew that was it. I thought about it overnight and ended it the next day. He was shocked and I wasn't ready for the reaction. It hurt like he## but I knew it was the right thing to do. It just suddenly wasn't enough and I didn't want to lose myself in what I thought it might become.

 

Sorry girls. I went on a little ramble then!

 

No ramble, I know exactly what you mean. It's funny, all this time I just couldn't explain it (and my exMM didn't get it at all either, he was shocked and tried so hard to fix whatever it was that was "wrong" all of a sudden), until I read these posts from you guys.

 

That was exactly it. It was too good. And I wanted it in a greater capacity, or none at all. I wanted him to take responsibility for his happiness, and free himself to be happy - instead of the charade of a marriage he was continuing. He was asking me advice regarding his child's age and divorce prior to me ending it, wondering if his child was old enough to "handle" a divorce at that time, so he was definitely feeling it too.

 

I can't even imagine being the MMs in this situation, ya know? You're so happy one place, with one person - and then you have to trudge back to such an unhappy situation after that. That would be torture for me. I get it now, and like I said, maybe now I can explain it to exMM better, as he still brings that up bc he still doesn't understand it. He just couldn't understand leaving something bc you were too happy. *sigh*

[veryhappy]

I see it as a non issue. Your story fits here. If you poll your small town, 95% would say you were having an affair.

[Summer Breeze]

No ramble, I know exactly what you mean. It's funny, all this time I just couldn't explain it (and my exMM didn't get it at all either, he was shocked and tried so hard to fix whatever it was that was "wrong" all of a sudden), until I read these posts from you guys.

 

That was exactly it. It was too good. And I wanted it in a greater capacity, or none at all. I wanted him to take responsibility for his happiness, and free himself to be happy - instead of the charade of a marriage he was continuing. He was asking me advice regarding his child's age and divorce prior to me ending it, wondering if his child was old enough to "handle" a divorce at that time, so he was definitely feeling it too.

 

I can't even imagine being the MMs in this situation, ya know? You're so happy one place, with one person - and then you have to trudge back to such an unhappy situation after that. That would be torture for me. I get it now, and like I said, maybe now I can explain it to exMM better, as he still brings that up bc he still doesn't understand it. He just couldn't understand leaving something bc you were too happy. *sigh*

 

MM was never unhappy at home. They, and she confirmed in conversations I had with her after ddays, had a comfortable existence that revolved around an ill child. That had become their core and they couldn't seem to find their way back to what made them 'them'. He always spoke very highly of her and had a happy life until we met and he evidently felt a spark and wanted more. I got the impression from them both that they were settling for what it was--but not that it was bad.

 

I'm glad you, Trinity and I had this little discussion within a discussion. It's helped me too. I have an idea when MM and I meet after his D is final he'll be doing some heavy asking as to why I ended it when I did. He always knew it was me who would end it but I think he expected it to end in some blazing fight rather than when things were at their best.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry AR, I'm slightly confused.. He has another OW?

[2sunny]

I don't know how I could respect a man that was miserable being married - but did nothing to be sure he got the happiness he deserved.

 

Bottom line is - he took no action to be in charge of his happiness... Except to cheat. So he back slapped her instead of doing what an honorable man would choose.

 

He looks avoidant... Is he?

 

It may be easier for him to blame everyone else for what THEY do because HE doesn't do anything... Is that his style?

 

Just asking - trying to figure out what his pattern is - he doesn't divorce because he should - his solution is to just stay, complain and keep cheating. None of it looks like a partner I would respect - he actually seems like a wussy.

[2sunny]

MM was never unhappy at home. They, and she confirmed in conversations I had with her after ddays, had a comfortable existence that revolved around an ill child. That had become their core and they couldn't seem to find their way back to what made them 'them'. He always spoke very highly of her and had a happy life until we met and he evidently felt a spark and wanted more. I got the impression from them both that they were settling for what it was--but not that it was bad.

 

I'm glad you, Trinity and I had this little discussion within a discussion. It's helped me too. I have an idea when MM and I meet after his D is final he'll be doing some heavy asking as to why I ended it when I did. He always knew it was me who would end it but I think he expected it to end in some blazing fight rather than when things were at their best.

 

Of course he knew you would be the only one to end it - that's the way he operates.

[AnotherRound]

Sorry AR, I'm slightly confused.. He has another OW?

 

He did have. After I ended it with him, he tried to work it out with me, but I continued to say no. He told me that he was going to move on, and I said that if that is what he wanted to do, then he should do that, and he did. The new OW knew from the get go that he was married, as she had known them back in the day, so knew his stbxw too, though not friends with her.

 

But within a few months of seeing him, the new OW went weird on them. She started stalking him, and the stbxw, and even their child. She was showing up everywhere, making scenes. And calling the stbxw on the phone, whilst she was drunk (often, apparently), and just spilling gory details to the stbxw - in what seemed to be an attempt to hurt the stbxw and possibly cause a divorce.

 

So yes, he did have. I was fully aware that when I continued to refuse to work things out with him that he was going to move on, and I was okay with that. I wasn't ready to date myself for about six months after I ended it with him, he was ready at about 4 or 5 months. He and the wife now have restraining orders on the other OW and have her number blocked and such (well, as they can, since she keeps changing her number in an attempt to contact him).

[2sunny]

And in all that unhappiness HE never INITIATED a divorce... ?

[whichwayisup]

There obviously are reasons why he is having trouble actually leaving and divorcing. Whatever is going on behind closed doors (you can only hear and believe so much..Only two who really know what is going on is him and his wife) is still having an effect on him..He wants to keep trying to reconnect with his wife and make the marriage work, yet keep you on some level in his life.

 

This guy has issues and is passive. He is broken on so many levels..Sorry AR, he isn't ready to pop out of his marriage and start a new life..With anybody. He needs to be alone (that is, if he does divorce) for a while to get counselling and learn how to be alone without relying or having a woman in his life.

[AnotherRound]

I don't know how I could respect a man that was miserable being married - but did nothing to be sure he got the happiness he deserved.

 

Bottom line is - he took no action to be in charge of his happiness... Except to cheat. So he back slapped her instead of doing what an honorable man would choose.

 

He looks avoidant... Is he?

 

It may be easier for him to blame everyone else for what THEY do because HE doesn't do anything... Is that his style?

 

Just asking - trying to figure out what his pattern is - he doesn't divorce because he should - his solution is to just stay, complain and keep cheating. None of it looks like a partner I would respect - he actually seems like a wussy.

 

Lol at the word "wussy"... I haven't heard that since junior high!

 

He was miserable, but his misery came second to his child's happiness. He was truly convinced (prob still is) that a child needs to have intact parents to be "normal". He was always afraid that a divorce would "mess up" his child, he's old fashioned in that sense. He also believed that his child was happy in the situation and had no idea what was going on. I tried to explain to him that was most likely not true, but he was bound and determined to not do anything that would negatively affect his child. And I think he is now realizing that his child was much more aware than he ever realized. Plus, nobody in his family has ever gotten divorced, they just don't do it. So all he had were these horror stories, esp concerning parenting time and he was convinced that he would "NEVER" see his child like he wanted to if they got divorced.

 

I wouldn't say he is avoidant. I would say he avoided a divorce at all costs, but he was telling his stbxw his feelings and concerns and trying to get her to take part in the marriage. He said he had been unhappy since before their child was born (and that's a whole other story, in other threads, that she purposely got pregnant against his wishes), but had thought that maybe it would work itself out. Then their child came (against his will), and he was in it for the long haul. He also said that after the child came, that the stbxw completely checked out of the marriage at that point and began to use the child as her only emotional connection. So it just sort of went downhill fast from there.

 

The blaming everyone else... not sure. I think that he takes his part in it, but he felt like he was up against a brick wall with her. She refused to communicate at all. He said she was like that from the get go, but he thought that she would "warm up" and share at some point... she didn't. Apparently, that is just who she is, and according to exMM, her entire family is that way. So, he realized at some point early on that it probably wasn't going to work, but then she purposely got pregnant even though they had agreed to a childless marriage, and from that point on - he felt stuck between not wanting to be with her but wanting to be with his child every day.

 

I'm not saying he handled it "right". I would have left. But then again, I'm a woman, and we often get the children for the majority of the time, so, any children would most likely come with me. That was his biggest fear, that he wouldn't see his child every day. Thankfully, they are getting along pretty well and he is seeing his child practically every day, even though they aren't living together. Men aren't treated very fairly in the courts when it comes to divorces, and that was what he was trying to avoid at least until his child was out of the house so that it could be a more fair split and he wouldn't miss watching his child grow up.

 

So, maybe he would be a "wussy" to you. I don't see him that way, but others are certainly entitled to their opinions. I think he tried to do it the right way, met a brick wall, and then made the best out of the situation that he could. It's not the way I would have handled it, but I'm not him, and I wasn't living his life, so, I try not to make judgments from the outside looking in like that - as I know it's often easy to stand on the outside looking in and say what we THINK we would have done, or that the solution looks easy to us.

[AnotherRound]

There obviously are reasons why he is having trouble actually leaving and divorcing. Whatever is going on behind closed doors (you can only hear and believe so much..Only two who really know what is going on is him and his wife) is still having an effect on him..He wants to keep trying to reconnect with his wife and make the marriage work, yet keep you on some level in his life.

 

This guy has issues and is passive. He is broken on so many levels..Sorry AR, he isn't ready to pop out of his marriage and start a new life..With anybody. He needs to be alone (that is, if he does divorce) for a while to get counselling and learn how to be alone without relying or having a woman in his life.

 

Where are you guys getting that he keeps trying to reconcile???? He has tried to get her to try to reconcile (they couldn't even get as far as discussing it bc she won't communicate) for the past 7 months since the divorce, then he was done. He then called me and told me he was done trying to reconcile, and that is where he has been with it for the past few weeks. He was processing it and saying he hoped he was making the right decisions, but he was done.

 

He has been in counseling since March or April. And when he stated that he wanted to try to have a relationship with me, just the other night, I told him that I thought he should be alone for a while - or date around, or whatever, to figure out what he really wants instead of just rushing into another relationship. Why is everyone thinking that I'm trying to marry him? I'm never going to marry him, or anyone, lol. I'm not saying he is ready for a relationship - I'm just wondering if I should be there to be supportive or not. ?????

 

PS the NC wasn't to change him, or manipulate, it was to protect myself. That was all. I was trying to do what was best for me, and thinking that maybe supporting him right now was unhealthy. That was the whole point of this thread, lol.