A few questions for my fellow non-believers: Religious people ignore this.

September 21, 2012

A few quick questions for the non-believers:

- If god created everything in heaven and on earth, and evil is a part of everything, doesn't that mean god created evil too?

- If, as some Christians say, "something cannot come from nothing" (usually when the are trying to attack science) then who made god? Clearly god is something and something cannot come from nothing?

- If god is almighty, then by definition, she should be able to do anything she wants. Since she created evil, lucifer/satan and hell (which is clearly spelled out in the bible), and allowed satan to come to earth to tempt/torture us (genesis and throughout) but does nothing to stop satan (many places in the bible - satan tempts eve, tortured Job and even tempts Jesus in the desert), then she is either unwilling or unable to stop satan. Since she is all powerful, then she must be unwilling. So why would a loving god be unwilling to stop the evil that she created?

And, if she is unable to stop satan, then doesn't that make satan at least as powerful as god? If so, then who the hell is really in charge?

- If a belief system uses an ancient book to make a whole host of moral and scientific claims, and those claims are one by one soundly debunked by advancing science (flat earth, geocentrism, evolution, etc), and the scientists themselves are tortured, murdered and silenced by church leaders for milennia - then what can be said of those moral and scientific claims found in the book if neither have been valid, operational or followed by church leaders pretty much from the beginning?

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:

- No child rape/abuse

- No lying

- No stealing (it says "covet" which is a thought crime)

- No cheating

- No genocide (actually this is condoned in the bible)

- No mass murder (god commands Moses to set brother on brother, etc)

Just curious.

Edited September 21, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

September 21, 2012

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:
- No child rape/abuse
- No lying
- No stealing (it says "covet" which is a thought crime)
- No cheating
- No genocide (actually this is condoned in the bible)
- No mass murder (god commands Moses to set brother on brother, etc)

Just curious.

oops

8.

Thou shalt not steal.

September 21, 2012

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:
- No child rape/abuse
- No lying
- No stealing (it says "covet" which is a thought crime)
- No cheating
- No genocide (actually this is condoned in the bible)
- No mass murder (god commands Moses to set brother on brother, etc)

Just curious.

another oops....

7.

You shall not commit adultery.

September 21, 2012

Why would you ask "non-believers" about something they don't believe in?

(Be careful...answer requires critical thinking and reason).

September 21, 2012

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:
- No child rape/abuse
- No lying
- No stealing (it says "covet" which is a thought crime)
- No cheating
- No genocide (actually this is condoned in the bible)
- No mass murder (god commands Moses to set brother on brother, etc)

Just curious.

Breaking the rules, too, but we need to be certain we have this straight...and I am not answering the question although even a non-believer should be able to answer them without the Bible (as I could):

Cheating is stealing from someone else's work, or it is stealing someone's wife, or it is committing adultery.

Lying is bearing false witness.

Not sure how you can get a good discussion without those who differ from your opinion. But that is okay...all "believers" SHOULD just sit back and read. I suspect this will be a shorter thread.

Another human who thinks Moses should be capitalized but not God. I guess somehow this is a passive aggressive way of pretending that God is smaller or less significant. In correct grammar, all proper names are capitalized no matter of your beliefs. No offense intended.

Edited September 21, 2012 by JamesM

September 21, 2012

oops

8.
Thou shalt not steal.

Aha! Yes, I missed that one. Oops indeed.

I guess that means all the rest of my post is invalidated. Is that how that works?

September 21, 2012

another oops....

7.
You shall not commit adultery.

I meant cheating in the general sense. There is scant mention in the bible of lying, cheating, swindling, etc.

September 21, 2012

Ok, fellow non believers. I have been set straight by my faithful brethren. In my zeal and haste I have included a few errant pet peeves and was inaccurate and stand corrected and embarrassed. So with your kind indulgence I submit this revised questionnaire (just that last commandments part).

(To the believers, this is what it looks like when someone admits they were wrong. And since you are here anyway, feel free to respond to any of the other items as well)

Humbly submitted for your further scrutiny.

SNR

A few quick questions for the non-believers:

- If god created everything in heaven and on earth, and evil is a part of everything, doesn't that mean god created evil too?

- If, as some Christians say, "something cannot come from nothing" (usually when the are trying to attack science) then who made god? Clearly god is something and something cannot come from nothing?

- If god is almighty, then by definition, she should be able to do anything she wants. Since she created evil, lucifer/satan and hell (which is clearly spelled out in the bible), and allowed satan to come to earth to tempt/torture us (genesis and throughout) but does nothing to stop satan (many places in the bible - satan tempts eve, tortured Job and even tempts Jesus in the desert), then she is either unwilling or unable to stop satan. Since she is all powerful, then she must be unwilling. So why would a loving god be unwilling to stop the evil that she created?

And, if she is unable to stop satan, then doesn't that make satan at least as powerful as god? If so, then who the hell is really in charge?

- If a belief system uses an ancient book to make a whole host of moral and scientific claims, and those claims are one by one soundly debunked by advancing science (flat earth, geocentrism, evolution, etc), and the scientists themselves are tortured, murdered and silenced by church leaders for milennia - then what can be said of those moral and scientific claims found in the book if neither have been valid, operational or followed by church leaders pretty much from the beginning?

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:

- Thou shalt not commit child rape/abuse
- Thou shalt not commit genocide
- Thou shalt not commit mass murder

Just curious.

September 21, 2012

Breaking the rules, too, but we need to be certain we have this straight...and I am not answering the question although even a non-believer should be able to answer them without the Bible (as I could):

Cheating is stealing from someone else's work, or it is stealing someone's wife, or it is committing adultery.
Lying is bearing false witness.

Not sure how you can get a good discussion without those who differ from your opinion. But that is okay...all "believers" SHOULD just sit back and read. I suspect this will be a shorter thread.

Another human who thinks Moses should be capitalized but not God. I guess somehow this is a passive aggressive way of pretending that God is smaller or less significant. In correct grammar, all proper names are capitalized no matter of your beliefs. No offense intended.

I do not capitalize god because she is one of many gods. That is allowable in the English language or so I have been told.

September 21, 2012

I think this thread needs to be reported because so many of you disrespectful and delusional "believers" have blatantly ignored the rules set forth by the OP and posted here.

All your posts should be deleted.

And the OP can just … preach to himself, on his own little thread.

September 21, 2012

I think this thread needs to be reported because so many of you disrespectful and delusional "believers" have blatantly ignored the rules set forth by the OP and posted here.

All your posts should be deleted.

And the OP can just … preach to himself, on his own little thread.

Amen sister!

I am not sure if you are all catching onto my approach here - even though I have said it explicitly before. My posts are almost irrelevant. Aside from a growing understanding of science, what really made me emerge from my childhood beliefs in spirits and gods and ghosts was the hypocrisy, nastiness, arrogance and downright evil of the believers around me.

Wow, they were and remain quite vile people.

I watched as many kind and decent scientists, atheists and educators begged, literally begged their fellow human beings to stop with the myths and legends and just be good human beings and stop being bad to each other. I read about how scientist made great advances only to be tortured, excommunicated and demonized for their discoveries. History is replete with these stories. This was all at the hands of believers in god. Undeniable facts. Not my opinion.

The responses to these pleas for human decency is usually nastiness, arrogance, hypocrisy, and downright evil responses. When theists claim that up is really down, evil is actually good, and the bible is simultaneously true and symbolic, and they claim that scientific proof is merely "theory" yet, wild speculations found in the bible are the "truth" it is exactly what young people need to read as they make their way to understanding the world around them.

You do great work in this regard.

Someone has to call out such things, but it is not enough to be rational. Humans are not readily equipped to deal with science and rational though. But emotion works quite well. And what works better than just about anything else is the bizarre and nasty responses - or even the subtle little exclusionary and mocking ones - posted in response to my simple questions.

It is all good in my book because it exposes the posters for the people they really are - Not in my words, but in their own words.

I attack myths and they attack me, and everyone who reads these things can clearly see it. And when the ugliness is out there for all to see, the next desperate step is censorship. Just like any dictator might command.

This is more perfect than I could have hoped for. Thanks MME C! Once again you have been a great help. We make a great team!

September 21, 2012

Strong, I apologize of my post offended you. The intention was not so. My comment regarding the capitalization of God was unnecessary despite it being a reference to correct grammar. And why I corrected your list of non-commandments...I didn't need to.

I know of other threads here that were questions for only theists and yet they were overtaken by atheists. It is frustrating for the OP. I don't know if your actual intention was to see if theists would respond, but either way, we all should have simply read and not posted as you requested.

Having been on the side where I was thoroughly ridiculed by atheists for my beliefs in a "mythical and unseen Being," I understand why you might feel this way if you do not. Reading the many threads of atheists against theists one can see the attacks against character by both. The nastiness flows from both sometimes more from one said than the other. Neither side probably intends it that way, but the receiving party often perceives it that way.

However, I wouldn't have taken these posts this way if I were you. Yet if that was your perception than by all means for my part, I apologize.

All of this and more would have been PMed to you if I could.

September 21, 2012

A few quick questions for the non-believers:

- If god created everything in heaven and on earth, and evil is a part of everything, doesn't that mean god created evil too?

there is no god

- If, as some Christians say, "something cannot come from nothing" (usually when the are trying to attack science) then who made god? Clearly god is something and something cannot come from nothing?

there is no god

- If god is almighty, then by definition, she should be able to do anything she wants. Since she created evil, lucifer/satan and hell (which is clearly spelled out in the bible), and allowed satan to come to earth to tempt/torture us (genesis and throughout) but does nothing to stop satan (many places in the bible - satan tempts eve, tortured Job and even tempts Jesus in the desert), then she is either unwilling or unable to stop satan. Since she is all powerful, then she must be unwilling. So why would a loving god be unwilling to stop the evil that she created?

there is no god

And, if she is unable to stop satan, then doesn't that make satan at least as powerful as god? If so, then who the hell is really in charge?

there is no god

Last one...

Why did god not include any of the following in the ten commandments:
- No child rape/abuse
- No lying
- No stealing (it says "covet" which is a thought crime)
- No cheating
- No genocide (actually this is condoned in the bible)
- No mass murder (god commands Moses to set brother on brother, etc)

Just curious.

there is no god

- If a belief system uses an ancient book to make a whole host of moral and scientific claims, and those claims are one by one soundly debunked by advancing science (flat earth, geocentrism, evolution, etc), and the scientists themselves are tortured, murdered and silenced by church leaders for milennia - then what can be said of those moral and scientific claims found in the book if neither have been valid, operational or followed by church leaders pretty much from the beginning?

that claiming to follow the book is wrong, following the principles isn't.

but we've established the dubious nature of the book because....there is no god.

related side note: some random ratings agency sent me 3 bucks to participate in radio ratings, where should i send your invoice?

Edited September 21, 2012 by thatone

September 21, 2012

I think that the OP is to atheism what the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity.

September 21, 2012

Strong, I apologize of my post offended you. The intention was not so. My comment regarding the capitalization of God was unnecessary despite it being a reference to correct grammar. And why I corrected your list of non-commandments...I didn't need to.

I know of other threads here that were questions for only theists and yet they were overtaken by atheists. It is frustrating for the OP. I don't know if your actual intention was to see if theists would respond, but either way, we all should have simply read and not posted as you requested.

Having been on the side where I was thoroughly ridiculed by atheists for my beliefs in a "mythical and unseen Being," I understand why you might feel this way if you do not. Reading the many threads of atheists against theists one can see the attacks against character by both. The nastiness flows from both sometimes more from one said than the other. Neither side probably intends it that way, but the receiving party often perceives it that way.

However, I wouldn't have taken these posts this way if I were you. Yet if that was your perception than by all means for my part, I apologize.

All of this and more would have been PMed to you if I could.

James, you are a credit to your religion. Calm rationale reasonable discussion is what it is all about.

I am not so kind when I discuss atrocities though. And somehow people get defensive when I attack the atrocities found in their religion. I understand this.

I hope at some point we can all acknowledge our shortcomings and be humble and recognize that we do not have the answers we wish we had. That would be a good starting point. I just can't start from the same place as a believer, but we can get to a better place together.

Thanks for the elegant response.

September 21, 2012

Gonna point this out: Just a little snippet.

6-Do not murder.

Oh, that is what it says in one part, but the rest of the bible is rife with death, murder, genocide etc.

Thou shalt not kill seems to mean that a man cannot kill another single man. But just about everywhere else where there are insults and historical inequities to be found, it is like open season on all mankind.

So my post stands. Why all the blood and gore?

September 21, 2012

Are we still banned from responding?

LOL. Of course not.

I really did want to ask non-believers, but I knew that others would chime in anyway. That is the way preaching is done.

Blast away.

September 21, 2012

That wasn't your point. Your point was that no mass murder should be in the commandments-I pointed out it is.

It does not say that mass murder is prohibited - if we are being literal. If not, then the bible says anything you want it to say.

Which is your preference?

Edited September 21, 2012 by strongnrelaxed
Typo

September 21, 2012

Do unforgivable logical gaffes qualify as "atrocities"?

September 21, 2012

Aha! Yes, I missed that one. Oops indeed.

I guess that means all the rest of my post is invalidated. Is that how that works?

Yes. That is how it works. Sorry. It is what it is. Moving on.

September 21, 2012

It does not say that mass murder is prohibited - if we are being literal. If not, then the bible says anything you want it to say.

Which is your preference?

Bold ^^ Yes that is exactly what I do, I open it and make it say anything I want it to. I do the same with regular books, of course it makes book reports interesting.

September 21, 2012

Yes. That is how it works. Sorry. It is what it is. Moving on.

It's a whole new concept; starting a "controversial" (heh, heh) thread based upon the failings of the Ten Commandments, while at the same time failing to be aware of the content of the Ten Commandments.

Is this some type of performance art?

September 21, 2012

Bold ^^ Yes that is exactly what I do, I open it and make it say anything I want it to. I do the same with regular books, of course it makes book reports interesting.

Well, Mercy, that just goes to show you what a mindless sheep all you believers are. Now move on, this thread is supposed to only be for the OP.

September 21, 2012

Well, Mercy, that just goes to show you what a mindless sheep all you believers are. Now move on, this thread is supposed to only be for the OP.

:laugh:

I'm a rebel, don't you know? Tell me no and I regress.

And anyway it's cracking me up!

September 21, 2012

It's a whole new concept; starting a "controversial" (heh, heh) thread based upon the failings of the Ten Commandments, while at the same time failing to be aware of the content of the Ten Commandments.

Is this some type of performance art?

But he hasn't even read the bible! I'm going to post a debate thread on a book I've never read.

This is just the best thread!

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