frozensprouts Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 from what I understand, many states ( and provinces or other jurisdictions) do not allow infidelity to be included as a factor in divorce proceedings ( no fault state?)... do you think this is fair?should infidelity matter? in my own situation, I would think that it would...( don't know the legalities though...from what I understand, each province is different) because my husband had an affair with a coworker, and he's military, his affair could have had pretty serious consequences. he knew this ( all soldiers learn about the ethics of this type of thing in basic) but took that risk anyway. I feel that, had we gotten divorced, his actions would have been relevant... anyone else have an opinion on this type of thing? should infidelity matter? ( please note...this is more of an opinion thread...not so much one about the actual legalities...they are what they are)
eleanorrigby Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 I don't know what the rules are in my state but if I filed for divorce because of infidelity, I would like to have that on the paperwork. I look at it like Cause of Death on a death certificate. So, I'd be a little irritated if I could not list that, but legally, it wouldn't make a difference in my case. (I think.. never really got that far down the divorce road) 1
underwater2010 Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Yes infidelity should count. Mostly for the women/men that make less than or no money due to being home with the children. I have never understood the nobody is at fault for a marriage failing. It is a rare case when one or the other just up and say we never should have married without hurt feelings. Also, does no fault count when a spouse is abused physically? 2
Soul_Lost Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I wholeheartedly agree that it should count. There are too many cases of divorce where it just gets tossed to the wayside. If it weren't for the cheating, most people might of stayed married. But then again, maybe the wouldn't of. Infidelity is a HUGE factor in those decisions. It should be another in the list of repercussions that one faces when they decide to cheat. 1
Balzac Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Divorce is ending a business contract. If and when courts allocate a greater sum of money to a "harmed" party, it's generally not a vast sum. I understand the need to shame or put guilt out there but the courts have tried to cut out the gaming that had been taking place.
mercy Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Damn right it would matter! That really annoys me because it is an out and out lie. If it's about infidelity then that's what it should be about. Though there are ways around it. Misappropriation, inter-spousal tort and supported spouse. And then there's always the big signs on billboards....
BetrayedH Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Speaking as someone that lives in a no fault state and was just divorced by a wayward after she cheated for a year, spent about $3k of marital funds on hotels and slept with the OM on our couch while the kids were asleep just a few yards away, yeah, I think it should matter. She left me committed to my end of a legal agreement (my end being a lifetime commitment) that was witnessed by God, our closest family, and our best friends. I have definitive proof of the breach of contract and it has severe implications on the children we agreed to raise together. And I had to spend several thousand dollars to dissolve the contract that she breached. How is this not out-and-out fraud? And I had to fight vigorously to get 50/50 custody of the kids and assets (which by most accounts was a big victory for me). Freakin' ridiculous. Edited September 20, 2012 by BetrayedH 2
mercy Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Speaking as someone that lives in a no fault state and was just divorced by a wayward after she cheated for a year, spent about $3k of marital funds on hotels and slept with the OM on our couch while the kids were asleep just a few yards away, yeah, I think it should matter. She left me committed to my end of a legal agreement (my end being a lifetime commitment) that was witnessed by God, our closest family, and our best friends. I have definitive proof of the breach of contract and it has severe implications on the children we agreed to raise together. And I had to spend several thousand dollars to dissolve the contract that she breached. How is this not out-and-out fraud? And I had to fight vigorously to get 50/50 custody of the kids and assets (which by most accounts was a big victory for me). Freakin' ridiculous. What about misappropriation of marital funds?
BetrayedH Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 What about misappropriation of marital funds? The problem is the attorney fees. Mine ran $265 an hour. Going thru divorce court is a good ten grand. Going to court over relatively small amounts of money costs more than you get with a win. Just a day of mediation cost me about $3k (probably $3500 considering the whopping two hours of work my atty did to prep for it). The mediator made $250 an hour. I had to cough up $1050 to him right there.
mercy Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 The problem is the attorney fees. Mine ran $265 an hour. Going thru divorce court is a good ten grand. Going to court over relatively small amounts of money costs more than you get with a win. Just a day of mediation cost me about $3k (probably $3500 considering the whopping two hours of work my atty did to prep for it). The mediator made $250 an hour. I had to cough up $1050 to him right there. RIDICULOUS!!!!! I'm sorry.
BetrayedH Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 RIDICULOUS!!!!! I'm sorry. It's ok. Really pales in comparison to the rest of it. I sure didn't care about money at all through this whole thing. Never really did before either. Made enough to have a new home, two new cars and the comforts of home with a couple modest vacations each year while putting away money for the kids' education. Didn't have a lot of luxuries or extravagent fun but felt pretty good about how we were doing. But yeah, furnishing a new apartment and all the other expenses that came with my situation had me hemoraging money. I borrowed about $25k altogether over the last 9 months to keep my head above water. But my kids are good and I'm ok. It's just a joke to somehow have no one care whose fault all this is. I was a good husband and father and no one could care less. Never even spoke to a judge once. Couldn't even tell you what my wife's attorney looks like. 3
Author frozensprouts Posted September 20, 2012 Author Posted September 20, 2012 i do think that infidelity should be considered in certain cases, especially where it concerns parenting... in my situation, due to circumstances we can't control, my husband is our sole source of income. His affair really put his job at risk. ( he got off lucky...he could have been demoted, fined , been involuntarily released or at worst, sent to prison- rare, but it can happen...the military is really strict about affairs between coworkers...as it was, because he ended his affair, admitted to what he had done to his chain of command, and took responsibility for it, he got a reprimand on his ethics in his yearly evaluation and permanent record, and lost out n a promotion that he was due). By putting his job and income at risk, he risked causing harm to his children. Does this sound like the actions of a good parent? Funny thing is that before he had an affair, and again now that it's over, he was a great dad...weird how an affair can cause such a change in a person
ComingInHot Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I figure if I am ONLY looking at the act as cause for dissolution of a legal contract, then all supported documentation needs to be considered when distributing assets accrued during legal binding contract (marriage in this case). I figure if someone took money and that is reason for ending contract then it tends to be looked at that the thief should pay that money back and that it is cause in breaking the partnership. If a partner sold secrets to competition, then that would be used and considered as breach of no compete therefore considered in assigning assets during the division. For me, when divorce is proceeding, the states consider that a legal binding agreement/partnership, so why change the rules of the division of assets? I think that if there there is evidence of breach of contract, then call a spade a spade and not a club. It is disconcerting that the law of marriage is still the same but the rules for divorce have changed. I HOPE I never have to find out though!! The division of a family (My Family) terrifies me and the thought breaks my heart** 1
beenburned Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 CIH, I completely agree! A marriage is a LEGAL joint partnership, the same as a business. (retired accountant here) When fraud/stealing money/assets is involved in the business world, it is against the law, and they pay the consequences! As many know here, I happen to live in one of the 13 states here in the US, that is still a fault state. I cringe when I read stories here of so many BS that are taken to the cleaners by their FWS! I am so happy that my D will get back all that was stolen from her by her STBXH and the OW! She also received alimony that was based on harm/hurt/emotional abuse from his long term affairs.(half of their marriage) 1
96nole Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 It's ok. Really pales in comparison to the rest of it. I sure didn't care about money at all through this whole thing. Never really did before either. Made enough to have a new home, two new cars and the comforts of home with a couple modest vacations each year while putting away money for the kids' education. Didn't have a lot of luxuries or extravagent fun but felt pretty good about how we were doing. But yeah, furnishing a new apartment and all the other expenses that came with my situation had me hemoraging money. I borrowed about $25k altogether over the last 9 months to keep my head above water. But my kids are good and I'm ok. It's just a joke to somehow have no one care whose fault all this is. I was a good husband and father and no one could care less. Never even spoke to a judge once. Couldn't even tell you what my wife's attorney looks like. Take out the kids and having to borrow 25k, and the story isn't much different than mine. It still burns my ass thinking about how much I did for that woman, for all the times I was there for her when she was at her worst, and this is how I'm paid back. -Going from a nice house to an apartment. I barely would have been able to afford the house by myself. -After all lawyer and court fees, walking away with less than half -knowing some dirtbag that wasn't man enough to support himself is now living in what I helped create. His useless butt is probably floating in the pool right now since he barely works. It doesn't matter if you're a good spouse or a bad spouse. I guess the legal system is tired of the he said, she said and just wants to get it over with as well.
Ninja'sHusband Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I think it should matter, but the implementation details could be scary from the courts' POV.
drifter777 Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I'm not sure the law could adequately define "infidelity". If the definition is too broad then both parties in a divorce would accuse the other of cheating and let the court try to sort it out. It could probably only be adequately defined as "a penis entering an orifice of some kind" because anything less would be impossible to prove. I mean, a kiss or text or pat or email or whatever can always be twisted 18 ways from Sunday be any lawyer. Yes, it "should" be considered as a factor. The reality is that most things in life simply aren't as they "should" be, and this is just another one.
ComingInHot Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Driffter: I agree and it's one of those things where I would love to begin every sentence with, " In a perfect world..." But perfect is probably arguable because for each individual there would be a different idea of what "a perfect world" would be. **
nofool4u Posted September 21, 2012 Posted September 21, 2012 from what I understand, many states ( and provinces or other jurisdictions) do not allow infidelity to be included as a factor in divorce proceedings ( no fault state?)... do you think this is fair?should infidelity matter? Absolutely it should. Why shouldn't it be, at the very least, a reason to cite someone wants a divorce? As far as being a factor DURING the divorce proceedings, I think, for example, a wayward wife should give damn good reason why her selfish ass should get to basically mentally abuse a husband by having an affair, get to divorce him take his children away from him AND make him pay her for the privilege. I also think it calls into the question of character, whether the husband or the wife, if that is the kind of character fitting to be the better parent to set an example for the kids. because my husband had an affair with a coworker, and he's military, his affair could have had pretty serious consequences. he knew this ( all soldiers learn about the ethics of this type of thing in basic) but took that risk anyway. Kind of makes a mockery out of the whole "honor" thing doesn't it? Again, yes, I think infidelity should matter with regards to divorce.
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