suladas Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Honestly, that is not the impression I get from most men. Most men go for the chick who has loads of make-up on, as well as mini-skirt and high heels. Chicks who, if I saw on the street, I would think were whores. I go light on the make-up, but I do wear it every day, especially when I'm going out in the evening. I find that it *does* make me look nicer, and I feel a boost in confidence when I do wear it. But it's so light that it might not even be noticeable. I'd wear it even if I weren't looking for a guy, btw. Some guys like that i'm sure but not me. It shows they are high maintenance, and who wants that? Plus I like a girl who isn't afraid to get dirty, so one really dolled up in high heels etc unless it's a fancy event is not for me. I mean a bit of make up is fine obviously, but going crazy doesn't have any benefit in my opinion.
ScreamingTrees Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Verz, what exactly would a guy have to do to be on equal footing with a girl in terms of effort? I feel like these same points have been brought up in these sorts of discussions so many times before, and I'm not trying to discredit the average girl's efforts in keeping herself looking presentable to the rest of the world, but it's up to every individual to decide if they want to look clean and presentable or not.. No one else is required to do anything just because I or you or he or she got their nails done.. I'm not attracted to your nails, I'm attracted to you, when it comes down to the nitty gritty.. What would a guy have to do? Spend 100$ on some special style in a male model hairstyle Salon catalogue? A hairstyle that the girl that WILL possibly approach him would have found him attractive with or without the hairstyle? Uncomfortable clothes? Why would ANYONE wear uncomfortable clothes? There aren't any comfortable clothes that look good? I doubt it, or my tastes are just odd because I don't care if a girl's wearing a thong.. She can wear a a T-shirt and sweat pants for all I care, if I'm attracted to her.. I wouldn't want her to feel like she constantly has to prove herself or something, if I already care about her, she should feel comfortable. If a girl dyes her hair, I won't be attracted to her. I prefer natural blondes/brunettes/red heads. I've actually grown a preference for blondes, and it might not hurt that I have blonde hair myself.. What is a guy going to get waxed, if he has no hair in odd places? I could shave my crotch/leg/chest hair, but for a man it'd be rather odd shaving their leg/chest hair, they'd either be considered effeminate / queer.. If guys had to, I'm sure they would do it as well. Shaving one's crotch/facial hair is easy enough, takes all of 5-15 minutes.. Things like thongs, heels don't really change how you look physically and don't impress me. I wouldn't find it necessary. If you have to wear an uncomfortable dress everywhere you go, that'd be rather odd.. The only things I can agree with would be the hair/make up products, but even then, I don't see how guys can really spend an equal amount of money considering guys are generally "supposed" to have short hair and if they wore make-up, they'd likely be considered effeminate / queer.. If a guy doesn't look like a wolf, what can he really do to put more effort into his appearance, apart from having plastic surgery? Gym-time?
Mrlonelyone Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Go read my post about all the different things girls do to be attractive. Obviously I can't back this up with scientific data, but I know that if I didn't care about being attractive to men, I'd ditch a whole lot of it. (When I'm single, I rarely shave my legs and absolutely never wax my bikini line, for example.) Men also have an AWFUL time identifying what is natural and what is make-up. So when you say you don't really care if a girl stops doing all that stuff.... well, ya might if she actually did. You just don't think it'd be a big deal because you don't realize how much it encompasses now. I.e. They see a woman wearing well applied well chosen foundation and think she isn't wearing makeup. When in truth that is the most important makeup. Then they see a woman without foundation and think they are gross. Foundation is to womens grooming as shaving is to mens.
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 There's a reason Cinderella's such a time-honored fairy tale. A good portion of the appeal is about leap frogging women with greater means, taking the guy and then spiking the football right in their faces. It's a wish fulfillment fantasy about burying "those bitches" in a single, brutal, fell swoop. Sincerely, you have some pretty misguided notions about women and why we do what we do. Yes, there are some highly competitive women when it comes to "getting" men. I don't think that the majority of us are. Cinderella? I think the true underlying meaning of that story, beneath the magical princess / prince stuff, is that "goodness" will prevail, even when it appears that the unrighteous are prospering from evil. 1
GirlontheLam Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 :laugh::laugh: My experiences beg to differ. I also have had WAY stronger signals than that turn into rejection. Let's be honest. As people, we ALWAYS think those we find attractive are giving us signals. Every cute girl I pass on the street, if our eyes meet, "was she was checking me out?" If you are a rando on the street you'll get extra glances. I am pretty smiley so a single smile is meaningless. Smile, glance, smile, longer eye contact....you are in! You can always just say hi, and see if we say hi back
GirlontheLam Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I think that a woman in a blood red dress will get more attention than a woman in grey, lightly stained, sweats. But they do it to impress other women. Possibly. I was wearing a fuchsia dress today.
insertnamehere Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Approaching doesn't have to actually involve going up to them and saying hi. Nope. Do the math. At some point someone has to nut up and posit the actual "Hello". Otherwise, it's just ships passing in the night. Cinderella? I think the true underlying meaning of that story, beneath the magical princess / prince stuff, is that "goodness" will prevail, even when it appears that the unrighteous are prospering from evil. There's actually nothing in the Cinderella tale that offers up that Cindy is in fact a good human being. She's just beset by other women who perceive themselves as her betters.
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 There's actually nothing in the Cinderella tale that offers up that Cindy is in fact a good human being. She's just beset by other women who perceive themselves as her betters. Here are the first sentences of "Cinderella" just as the Brothers Grimm wrote it (except translated into English): A rich man's wife became sick, and when she felt that her end was drawing near, she called her only daughter to her bedside and said, "Dear child, remain pious and good, and then our dear God will always protect you, and I will look down on you from heaven and be near you." With this she closed her eyes and died. The girl went out to her mother's grave every day and wept, and she remained pious and good. I just read the whole thing, and there are many references to her kindness, goodness and humility. The whole point was that she was "good" and the stepsisters were "wicked."
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Cinderella is just a classic rags to riches story.
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Cinderella is just a classic rags to riches story. No, not really. Cinderella was the daughter of the rich widower. He remarried and his hateful new wife and her hellish daughters usurped all of the wealth and bullied Cinderella, and made her live as a pauper. Ultimately, justice prevailed and all was restored to its rightful order. And the mean women got their comeuppance, too.
denise_xo Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 then they see a woman without foundation and think they are gross. Foundation is to womens grooming as shaving is to mens. I have to say that a man who wasn't capable of dealing with the natural skin on my face would be disregarded in a second. They seriously need to grow a pair if they can't deal with the natural complexion of female skin. 1
joystickd Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 You guys really need to decide what you want; you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be desired, then you have to be desireABLE. A lot of women, even the non-princess ones, go to enormous lengths to maintain their good looks and be "desirable." Uncomfortable underwear (thongs), uncomfortable shoes (heels), uncomfortable clothes (can't breath in that dress, can't bend over in that one), expensive make-up (foundation, eye-liner, blush, lip gloss, and mascara are the bare minimums), expensive hair products (blow dryers, hair styling products, specific shampoos).... Tell me this: when's the last time you got your hair dyed? When is the last time you got anything waxed? Would you shave your leg hair, chest hair and crotch hair every week? How often do you go tanning? I could go on. This is why I find the argument of "women don't do any work" ridiculous. Women do work.... it's called "being attractive." If you aren't attractive, you aren't getting approached. You aren't being desired. So if men want to be desired, then they need to put just as much work into their physical appearance as women do. As to why women don't approach men.... as I've explained before, it's the one-two hit of having to deal with rejection as well, AND breaking social norms. Think of going out into public in a dress. A really fluffy pink dress. And you don't get to act goofy while wearing it-it is totally serious. Feels uncomfortable, doesn't it? That's what breaking gender norms feels like. It's pretty self explanatory why girls do it.... because society tells them for the most part, NOT to. I'm into taking care of my face. I exfoliate and all the other things. I actually have more facial products than my sisters. I shave my pubic area. I make sure my mustache and beard neatly trimmed and shaped. I spent lots of money on clothes and accessories (yes guys spend some money on accessories. why wear 80 to 100 plus dolllar pants with a 10 dollar belt.). When I go out I look good, smell good and more than likely taste good lol The bold statement I get the point made, but many guys don't because work is different. They see that as the normal rituals women do. The work they are talking about is getting out here campaigning for that member of the opposite sex. The most I see on here that complain about it are just lazy. I do say women need to approach more but not because I'm lazy. It's because I like to mess with the women that like to talk about gender roles and how they hate them which to me is a little hypocritical if you hate gender roles but refuse to approach. I approach and get women that approach me. I actually like the act of women approaching me. I will say though in order for me to get to the point of getting approached I had to approach for a while. Women had to see me interact with other women. They got to look and notice you are normal and not creepy. Guys worry about getting rejected. I remember back when I was in college and I went to clubs I approached 20-30 times a night and got rejected everyone or got fake phone numbers. These were hoodrat black women so the rejections you guys would probably get would be much nicer. Now I just go out and approach and rejection doesn't bother me much now. The things is to a guy with a lack of understanding about women/men interactions things women do like eye contact, smiling and body language they do not know about. There are even instances where sometimes those cues are the norm in everyday interaction so it is confusing for a guy a lot of times. I'm direct and I know it's different for some women to deal with a guy like me. If I want to have sex with you I say it, but in a nice way lol. I have a preference for making my desires and intentions known. I am not into being subtle. Subtle to me is for game players. I will say women need to be more direct because it can get crazy when you stick to being subtle 1
denise_xo Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I have to say that a man who wasn't capable of dealing with the natural skin on my face would be disregarded in a second. They seriously need to grow a pair if they can't deal with the natural complexion of female skin. I was going to add to this post (but was too late), to the assertion that 'foundation is to women's grooming as shaving is to men': as far as I am concerned, the correct analogy is that the condition of the skin on a woman's face is comparable to the condition of the skin on a man's face. Both genders have skin on their faces. Men have, in addition, more facial hair than women, and that is a separate issue that is completely unrelated to foundation.
LittlePrince Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Don't Understand the Obsession with Being Approached I don't understand a woman's obsession with being approached either.
oaks Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I was going to add to this post (but was too late), to the assertion that 'foundation is to women's grooming as shaving is to men': as far as I am concerned, the correct analogy is that the condition of the skin on a woman's face is comparable to the condition of the skin on a man's face. Both genders have skin on their faces. Men have, in addition, more facial hair than women, and that is a separate issue that is completely unrelated to foundation. I thought it was a reasonable analogy (and I think you're being pedantic) but, OMG, men and women are different! :eek:
denise_xo Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) I thought it was a reasonable analogy (and I think you're being pedantic) but, OMG, men and women are different! :eek: Yes, of course they are. I explicitly stated that in my post when I said men have facial hair and women don't. But I just don't see how that original analogy holds. Maybe we live in very different cultural contexts, but where I live, I don't think it would be common at all to compare women wearing foundation to a man shaving. Edited September 20, 2012 by denise_xo
oaks Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Yes, of course they are. I explicitly stated that in my post when I said men have facial hair and women don't. But I just don't see how that original analogy holds. Maybe we live in very different cultural contexts, but where I live, I don't think it would be common at all to compare woman wearing foundation to a man shaving. I think you're focussing too much on the detail (which is usually what breaks analogies). I saw it just as "thing men need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable" and "thing women need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable", and that made it a reasonable analogy. The "thing" isn't exactly the same, but I don't think that's the point.
denise_xo Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I think you're focussing too much on the detail (which is usually what breaks analogies). I saw it just as "thing men need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable" and "thing women need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable", and that made it a reasonable analogy. The "thing" isn't exactly the same, but I don't think that's the point. I understand your point, and I understood it the first time around. I only used the detail to argue that I don't agree with the overall premise or the conclusion. I DON'T think it is reasonable to put 'wearing foundation' in the category of 'things women need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable'. Again, maybe things are different where you live, but where I have lived and worked, I have just never encountered this idea that women HAVE to wear foundation to be 'presentable'. Professionally, I have worked in international organisations and facilitated high level political meetings. I have never had any indications that my lack of foundation (I never wear any) has prevented me from coming across as 'representable' and professional (and I've had very blunt bosses). I also have never been told by any of my previous partners that they found me 'gross' because I don't wear foundation. I just don't understand where these ideas come from. Is a woman's skin seriously much more off putting than a man's?
oaks Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I understand your point, and I understood it the first time around. Oh ok. I DON'T think it is reasonable to put 'wearing foundation' in the category of 'things women need to do, or are expected to do, to their faces in order to appear presentable'. Again, maybe things are different where you live, but where I have lived and worked, I have just never encountered this idea that women HAVE to wear foundation to be 'presentable'. Not especially, but I thought the larger context, within this thread, was about the amount of effort being put in by people of each sex (in some aspect of approaching or being approachable or being attractive). Perhaps we're agreeing. I like that better.
LittlePrince Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Most men have no problem approaching women. If that weren't true, the human species would have died out long ago. The posters here are a self-selecting group and contains mostly people who have problems dating. Never make the mistake of thinking that the men who post here are representative of men in general. No, most men do have difficulty with approaching women otherwise most of a man's life wouldn't be sexless or romance less. The men here are just a portion of the worst cases.
denise_xo Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Oh ok. :)Not especially, but I thought the larger context, within this thread, was about the amount of effort being put in by people of each sex (in some aspect of approaching or being approachable or being attractive). Yes, probably. Just to clarify, I was only responding to that single post I originally quoted and I might very well have taken it out of context, because I haven't really read this thread - I just quickly scanned the last couple of pages when I logged in this morning. Perhaps we're agreeing. I like that better. I usually agree with you. You have your head screwed on well 2
counterman Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I don't mind approaching and I don't care that not many girls approach guys. Approaching a girl allows me to demonstrate some of my more attractive qualities and it's what makes me stand out from a lot of the guys, being a pretty average looking guy myself. With the understanding and acceptance that I won't always end up with a date, I am pretty comfortable with the way things are.
Emilia Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Women are horrible at being told no. If she is not so attractive, than it is " what, think you're too good for me..", if she is attractive, than you must be gay. It is even worse when their friends are involved and knew she had a crush on you and you had the audacity to gently tell her no or kindly ignore her passive advances. Those friends hold grudges for a long time and I didn't do **** to them lol Men are the same. The number of times I've been told I must be a lesbian because I wasn't interested in the guy A lot of people are sore losers, hardly headline news.
Els Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 I like that the majority of posts in the past few pages was about analogies and Cinderella. 3
somedude81 Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Have any of you ladies wished a guy you knew asked you out but he never did? With that guy, did you do anything to let him know you were interested?
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