Author verhrzn Posted September 19, 2012 Author Posted September 19, 2012 But you claim to not be a looker yourself so youre saying in this approaching game men have to prove themselves to attract even women on their level looks wise which is what i think angers some of these average looking dudes AS a guy who ddint have to approach much at all but didnt have a problem with approaching it never bothered me but i can see why some regular guys would be angry since they seem to have to work extra harder to get a even average looking women near their level And women have to prove themselves. I am not a looker, and I have never been approached even by guys "on my level," because they aren't attracted to me. We ALL have to prove ourselves. I am asking if guys want to prove themselves with their personalities, or their looks. Because if they are insistent on women doing the approaching, they will have to depend entirely on their looks. Do they think that is going to somehow be easier? Let me put it another way... the only way I've gotten into relationships was by being the pursuer. Even though none of my bfs were conventionally "hot." By social standards, they were average-to-below-average looking guys. 1
EasyHeart Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Most men have no problem approaching women. If that weren't true, the human species would have died out long ago. The posters here are a self-selecting group and contains mostly people who have problems dating. Never make the mistake of thinking that the men who post here are representative of men in general. 6
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Something I've noticed guys here (and elsewhere) complaining about venomously is how they have to approach women. How they put in all the work, how women are entitled because men approach them, etc. While they're busy complaining venomously, more positive guys are out there taking the risk of asking women out and sometimes being accepted, and sometimes getting approached themselves. 4
Author verhrzn Posted September 19, 2012 Author Posted September 19, 2012 Because if you aren't approaching, you have no fear of rejection. Approaching is harder then being approached. Guys think and agonize on how to best approach women all the time, instead if you aren't the one doing it you have no worries. Yes if you wait and no one approaches you that would suck, but most guys don't look at it that way. But maybe they would think of it that way, if being approached was the norm. I have never been approached, and since it is the norm for women to be approached, I am VERY aware of it. I pretty much walk away "rejected" any time I am in a public place, because I didn't meet the standard for being approached. I see these same guys complain about how women judge them on their looks/height, and how women have these unrealistic physical expectations of men. If these same guys saw tall/hot men getting routinely approached, do you really want to say they wouldn't start to feel rejected everywhere they went? Trust me: being approached does NOT take away the sting of rejection. It just means you're being rejected by EVERYbody, not just the specific people you approached. 1
suladas Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 And women have to prove themselves. I am not a looker, and I have never been approached even by guys "on my level," because they aren't attracted to me. We ALL have to prove ourselves. I am asking if guys want to prove themselves with their personalities, or their looks. Because if they are insistent on women doing the approaching, they will have to depend entirely on their looks. Do they think that is going to somehow be easier? Let me put it another way... the only way I've gotten into relationships was by being the pursuer. Even though none of my bfs were conventionally "hot." By social standards, they were average-to-below-average looking guys. What's attractive to one person isn't to another. I know i'm like average looking. My ex who asked me out, the second she seen me though I was really hot, and better looking then her actually, but I though she was better looking then me. I mean for example I have red hair, I know for some women they hate it, others love it. So just because some guys you like don't approach you don't mean you aren't good looking, everyone likes different things.
AD1980 Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 I see these same guys complain about how women judge them on their looks/height, and how women have these unrealistic physical expectations of men. If these same guys saw tall/hot men getting routinely approached, do you really want to say they wouldn't start to feel rejected everywhere they went? You dont think guys dont go through this in diferent ways?hell when im at a club or bar my good looking friend gets approached and groped when im standing right next to him Or when there were single women either in my social circle or if a friends wife brought them out and they all asked about my friends and not me is that not rejection? Most women get bold with good looking guys..the fact ive never been approached at 32 tells me all i need to know about how unattractive iam..I dont need to approach women to prove it i have the evidence already. 1
Author verhrzn Posted September 19, 2012 Author Posted September 19, 2012 What's attractive to one person isn't to another. I know i'm like average looking. My ex who asked me out, the second she seen me though I was really hot, and better looking then her actually, but I though she was better looking then me. I mean for example I have red hair, I know for some women they hate it, others love it. So just because some guys you like don't approach you don't mean you aren't good looking, everyone likes different things. Yeeeeah let's not go down that road... The point was just the whole "anger" that average men have to "prove" themselves to "average" women is ridiculous. We all have to prove themselves... the women proved to the guys that they were attractive, now the guys need to prove to the women that they are attractive (in the case of a guy approaching a girl.) All there is to it.
todreaminblue Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 You dont think guys dont go through this in diferent ways?hell when im at a club or bar my good looking friend gets approached and groped when im standing right next to him Or when there were single women either in my social circle or if a friends wife brought them out and they all asked about my friends and not me is that not rejection? Most women get bold with good looking guys..the fact ive never been approached at 32 tells me all i need to know about how unattractive iam..I dont need to approach women to prove it i have the evidence already. What evidence do you have? run it down for me
AD1980 Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 What evidence do you have? run it down for me Never being approached never being set up..nwver beign told i was good looking.. Whenever sinlge women were out they would ask about my friends becasue they thought they were good looking but never asked about me At 32 if i was even halfway decent looking one of these things should have happened by now even by accident
suladas Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Yeeeeah let's not go down that road... The point was just the whole "anger" that average men have to "prove" themselves to "average" women is ridiculous. We all have to prove themselves... the women proved to the guys that they were attractive, now the guys need to prove to the women that they are attractive (in the case of a guy approaching a girl.) All there is to it. I have no anger in it. I know if I really want a girl, i'm going to have to approach her, if i'm not willing to I have no reason to complain about being single. I do agree though in most situations guys tend to go for the hottest girl, it's just natural.
Author verhrzn Posted September 19, 2012 Author Posted September 19, 2012 I have no anger in it. I know if I really want a girl, i'm going to have to approach her, if i'm not willing to I have no reason to complain about being single. I do agree though in most situations guys tend to go for the hottest girl, it's just natural. Sure. Not my point. My point is just that guys seem to complain and want girls to approach them, without realizing that by NOT approaching (and waiting for a girl to approach) they actually get a lowered success rate. The only way the compliments make sense is if the guys envision hot women throwing themselves at them if women would jsut stop being "entitled," and that just.... isn't the realm of reality, so I want the logic explained to me.
NoMoreJerks Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 You dont think guys dont go through this in diferent ways?hell when im at a club or bar my good looking friend gets approached and groped when im standing right next to him Or when there were single women either in my social circle or if a friends wife brought them out and they all asked about my friends and not me is that not rejection? Most women get bold with good looking guys..the fact ive never been approached at 32 tells me all i need to know about how unattractive iam..I dont need to approach women to prove it i have the evidence already. OK, dude, seriously. I am 29 and female, and I was NEVER approached by any man until I met my ex 3 months ago. Actually, *he* wasn't the one who approached me. His friend started the talking, and then he jumped into it. What should that do to my self-esteem, especially as a woman? Yeah, I have low self-esteem, but who cares, I'm not gonna dress like a whore just to get guys' attention. I might be desperate for love/caring and a relationship, but I am not that desperate.. YET. Probably never will be. Whatever. To claim that women are all about mens' looks, and not vice versa, is ridiculous. I can claim the exact opposite, and it would probably be more accurate. Women who are young, who put on tons of make-up, wear mini-skirts in the middle of freaking winter (-30 Celsius), and high heels that I can never walk in, get all the attention from men. I've seen it time and again. Am I willing to wear a mini-skirt in -30 Celsius , for attention from a probable douchebag? NO. End of story.
Imported Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Sure, but I'm not asking why guys DON'T approach. I'm asking why they assume that women approaching would be any better. Wouldn't women be just as nervous in a public place? When you're approaching, you have the power. When you wait to be approached, you are at the mercy of someone else's decision. Even though I almost always do the actual approaching and asking out/arrangements with women that I want, in nearly all cases the women are the ones that initiated it passively and sometimes not so passively. I think it works great that way. Would be a pain if all the women that seem interested actually tried to do anything about it. I do feel like I have power in this matter. I am not restrained for whatever girl actually comes up to me, nor do I constantly have to reject girls I don't find attractive. Edited September 19, 2012 by Imported
Mrlonelyone Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) It is a myth that women don't approach men. They do, they just don't straight ask you out. It's more like they ask to be asked out. A sort of passive aggressive way of going about things. IME One time years ago I was in a waiting room. While I was there I noticed two different young women. One had on really short shorts and was begging for attention but talked like a fool. The other was cute and quietly reading a book about DNA analysis. I choose to talk to the one reading about DNA analysis. Now here's the kicker. The one in short shorts looked at me and stamped her foot in my direction while she was at the counter. She did this a few times as if to say "look at me! I'm hotter than her!" Then acted offended that I would rather chat with someone who had some sense. That my friends was a woman approaching. (Stoked in part by some petty bit of rivalry I suppose). I have to disclaim that my presentation has been androgynous at most masculine and the bisexual and lesbianish women I have been with may be wired differently. They just ignore that particular gender norm. Why? Why hold yourselves so hostage to the gender norms that say women should be vain and passive and never approach, while men should be slobs but actively approach? If obeying those rules is leaving you lonely then screw the rules. Men clean, shave, and shower yourselves. Groom that nose and eyebrow hair, there's nothing gay about it. It is not feminine to work on having good abs instead of a gut. Well toned muscles give women something hard to grope not lovehandels.* Women if you like a man talk to him. Then give him a real chance at conversation. Ask for his number. Ask him out in a romantic way. Be aggressive not passive aggressive. Be like this woman .... A Beautiful Mind (2001): Alicia Ask Nash for a Date - Video *I say that because guys supposedly think it's feminine to diet. Hence things like "diet system" for men or diet softdrinks that are called cola "Zero" or cola "Max" but not diet. Edited September 19, 2012 by Mrlonelyone
carhill Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Women if you like a man talk to him. Then give him a real chance at conversation. Ask for his number. Ask him out in a romantic way. Be aggressive not passive aggressive. Be like this woman .... A Beautiful Mind (2001): Alicia Ask Nash for a Date - Video Not taking anything away from Jennifer (Connelly), it is ironic that the real Alicia Nash in her younger years doesn't appear much different than the OP. Further irony was that she was a science geek (physics major) a lot like the OP is. She asked out her professor, a general no-no. Gutsy lady. Hard to believe it was the early 1950's. The horrors. 2
GoodOnPaper Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 When you're approaching, you have the power. When you wait to be approached, you are at the mercy of someone else's decision. I don't think there is any power advantage on either side. When you are approached, you know who is interested in you. When you're approaching -- and as bad at attracting women as I've always been -- then it's a cold-calling game and that's very stressful. That said, guys who don't attract women should be careful what they (we) wish for when they think women should do the approaching. What will such guys do when a woman they aren't interested in approaches? . . . and being persistent about it? I don't think we'd have as easy of a time doing the rejecting as most women do. 1
oaks Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 So can someone please explain why guys are so eager to switch roles? Because the grass is always greener on the other side.
Woggle Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Because it is pure hell taking the risk of getting your head chewed off for simply thinking you have the right to speak to a woman who considers you unworthy.
yongyong Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 American feminist keeps talking about equality. So would they approach men too? or at least meet in the middle? LOL no. This is one of gender specific roles - Men have to approach. we also have more freedom to sleep around
Els Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Double edged sword, in my opinion. Someone who sits there waiting to be approached is, you are absolutely right, inherently limited to the people who want to approach him/her. In the case of cold approaches, this will almost certainly be largely looks-based. If all gender roles are reversed and all women approach men, you are absolutely right that the majority of 'Woah is me for I am a man, I would have more success if I were a woman' men would most likely not be the ones being approached either, because their very attitude is by nature resistant to pushing themselves out of the comfort zone and working on self-improvement, thus they would most likely be very average-looking women due to lack of motivation to work on their appearance (which, if they complain about needing to do as a man, they have no idea what the beauty regime of many attractive women entails). On the other hand, approaching may sound easy to you, but it really isn't. Some people have the natural flair for it, but some don't, and rejection truly does hurt sometimes. It's like being a credit card salesman, except worse because emotions and ego are at stake. This is all assuming the world is black and white and only cold approaches exist, and men only approach while women don't, but clearly, as you mentioned, this is not the case. Most of us have the capability to approach if we desire to improve our odds - there is no reason a woman cannot do so. Also, there is so much more to dating and relationships than cold approaches. If I had relied on cold approaches, I would be most definitely single. 2
Woggle Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Women desire men just as much but they know how much it sucks to be coldly shot down for daring to speak to somebody and would rather not take the blow to their ego. They know how mean they are to certain men that approach and don't to be on the receiving end. Not all women but this is a main reason why a woman would be against approaching.
xxoo Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 If I had relied on cold approaches, I would be most definitely single. Ditto. Also, if we are strictly talking cold approach, women are generally attracted to a narrower group of men. Women don't cold approach because, when out and about, they don't see so many men they are motivated to approach. A decent looking man isn't necessarily going to be motivation enough, while a decent looking woman might be motivation enough for the typical guy. 2
AD1980 Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Ditto. Also, if we are strictly talking cold approach, women are generally attracted to a narrower group of men. Women don't cold approach because, when out and about, they don't see so many men they are motivated to approach. A decent looking man isn't necessarily going to be motivation enough, while a decent looking woman might be motivation enough for the typical guy. So you admit women find less men good looking then vice versa?
Author verhrzn Posted September 19, 2012 Author Posted September 19, 2012 Because it is pure hell taking the risk of getting your head chewed off for simply thinking you have the right to speak to a woman who considers you unworthy. So... the only fair thing is for women to suffer the same? Because some guys gets their heads chewed off, some women should also be forced to experience it?... Furthermore, that still doesn't explain the logic of why guys think NOT approaching will be better. If they don't want a relationship, sure. But why is there this idea that if women just approached, everything would suddenly be rainbows and sunshine for their romantic life? 1
Woggle Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Maybe men can create vague and confusing criteria for what it and isn't considered street harassment. Just kidding about that one but it is really what guys deal with.
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