Can women be responsible for men's misogynistic view of dating?

[Woggle]

Of course, which is why I'm purposely not singling out men in my posts. Unlike you. Consider that.

 

I don't single out women but I sympathize with men who have been where I have been. I know how unhealthy hatred is but do recovering addicts stop feeling sympathy for those still caught up in the grip of addiction?

[Janesays]

I don't single out women but I sympathize with men who have been where I have been. I know how unhealthy hatred is but do recovering addicts stop feeling sympathy for those still caught up in the grip of addiction?

 

I really think you should look up the definition of 'addiction.' What you have is NOT an addiction. It's a CHOICE. And therefore, you need to own your choices and be responsible for your choices. Your choices shape who you are and what kind of person you'll be. There is no chemical dependency here. There are just excuses.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Also there are some misogynists and misandrists to be fair who have taken so much abuse that they can only see relationships in terms of men and vs women.

 

You, for example.

 

Your poor, poor wife.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I don't single out women but I sympathize with men who have been where I have been. I know how unhealthy hatred is but do recovering addicts stop feeling sympathy for those still caught up in the grip of addiction?

 

To extend this analogy, what you do would be akin to telling a junkie, "oh, dude, you look so sick going through your withdrawals. I really feel for you. Sit tight while I go find you a fix."

 

And then you shoot him up with dope.

[Woggle]

You, for example.

 

Your poor, poor wife.

 

I think you yourself have been through addiction issues. Do you have no sympathy for people still struggling just because you have gotten yourself over it.

[Pyro]

I think you yourself have been through addiction issues. Do you have no sympathy for people still struggling just because you have gotten yourself over it.

 

and instead of giving them some advice on how to start moving past it all you do is tell them that it is OK to hate women and OK to talk trash about them because they are hurt.

[Woggle]

and instead of giving them some advice on how to start moving past it all you do is tell them that it is OK to hate women and OK to talk trash about them because they are hurt.

 

I just know that tearing him apart will do nothing but make more entrenched in his views while some empathy might make him think twice. I know that the empathy women showed me on here finally pierced that armor. I have been where he is and I know what might break this bitterness.

[Pyro]

I just know that tearing him apart will do nothing but make more entrenched in his views while some empathy might make him think twice. I know that the empathy women showed me on here finally pierced that armor. I have been where he is and I know what might break this bitterness.

 

Since when is telling someone to move on and to not think of the entire female population as one tearing someone apart?

 

Telling guys it is OK to be that way proves that you are a misogynist and you are purposely trying to start a 'gender war'.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think you yourself have been through addiction issues. Do you have no sympathy for people still struggling just because you have gotten yourself over it.

 

I have massive sympathy and empathy for them. AND, I don't encourage them to remain in the grip of their addictions. I encourage them to move towards the LIGHT.

 

I worked for a while in drug and alcohol counseling and have been a "12 stepper" for almost half my life now. Three things I've learned without a doubt:

 

1) feeding ugliness is ALWAYS BAD

 

2) it's not wise to spend time trying to help and / or change people who aren't ready to accept help or change.

 

and.

 

3) Nurturing a victim mentality is SICK SICK SICK - both for the "victim" and the person helping the "victim" to maintain that identity.

 

As I have told you, Woggle, I too have had some extreme abuse in my life. I suffered terribly when my first marriage exploded and I lost everything I had (including a man I had loved very much - and who turned into a violent monster on a rampage against me and our daughter).

 

For me, this does not incline me to sympathize with *******s no matter what they've been through.

 

Why does it work in reverse for you?

[Woggle]

Since when is telling someone to move on and to not think of the entire female population as one tearing someone apart?

 

Telling guys it is OK to be that way proves that you are a misogynist and you are purposely trying to start a 'gender war'.

 

When did I say it was ok to be that way? I just take a less hostile approach to getting him out of his ways.

[Mme. Chaucer]

When did I say it was ok to be that way? I just take a less hostile approach to getting him out of his ways.

 

You do NOTHING of the kind. You egg him on and encourage his "ways."

[Pyro]

When did I say it was ok to be that way? I just take a less hostile approach to getting him out of his ways.

 

All you say is that you understand why some guys are so bitter and then you leave it at that. You never try to convince them to move on past the hatred.

 

Sounds like you are giving them a free pass.

[Woggle]

I have massive sympathy and empathy for them. AND, I don't encourage them to remain in the grip of their addictions. I encourage them to move towards the LIGHT.

 

I worked for a while in drug and alcohol counseling and have been a "12 stepper" for almost half my life now. Three things I've learned without a doubt:

 

1) feeding ugliness is ALWAYS BAD

 

2) it's not wise to spend time trying to help and / or change people who aren't ready to accept help or change.

 

and.

 

3) Nurturing a victim mentality is SICK SICK SICK - both for the "victim" and the person helping the "victim" to maintain that identity.

 

As I have told you, Woggle, I too have had some extreme abuse in my life. I suffered terribly when my first marriage exploded and I lost everything I had (including a man I had loved very much - and who turned into a violent monster on a rampage against me and our daughter).

 

For me, this does not incline me to sympathize with *******s no matter what they've been through.

 

Why does it work in reverse for you?

 

Whenever I see posts from men like this I just picture them in my shoes and the fact that they probably felt the same pain I have felt my entire life. Maybe I am wrong but when they are getting criticized to me it feels like the whole male gender is being attacked. I am not saying that is reality but it is what it feels like.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Whenever I see posts from men like this I just picture them in my shoes and the fact that they probably felt the same pain I have felt my entire life. Maybe I am wrong but when they are getting criticized to me it feels like the whole male gender is being attacked. I am not saying that is reality but it is what it feels like.

 

Why are they criticized?

 

BECAUSE THEY, IN FACT, ARE ATTACKING THE ENTIRE FEMALE GENDER!!!!

 

But calling them on it - even being angry and / or defensive about it - is "bad" - because … YOU take that as an attack on the "entire male gender"?

 

Please tell me that you can see the ridiculousness in this.

[Woggle]

Why are they criticized?

 

BECAUSE THEY, IN FACT, ARE ATTACKING THE ENTIRE FEMALE GENDER!!!!

 

But calling them on it - even being angry and / or defensive about it - is "bad" - because … YOU take that as an attack on the "entire male gender"?

 

Please tell me that you can see the ridiculousness in this.

 

This is a guy who sometimes feels like pictures of women are giving me dirty looks so you can see why I feel this way sometimes.

[Pyro]

This is a guy who sometimes feels like pictures of women are giving me dirty looks so you can see why I feel this way sometimes.

 

Then you need some new feelings and/or more time at counseling.

 

If you were to devote the amount of time that you did surfing the internet for men bashing crap on counseling for yourself then you would see great improvement.

[Mme. Chaucer]

This is a guy who sometimes feels like pictures of women are giving me dirty looks so you can see why I feel this way sometimes.

 

I do have sympathy, empathy, etc for YOU. I hope you will do whatever you need to do, some day, to get better.

 

My sympathy and empathy for you doesn't extend to thinking that the way YOU start and encourage bogus "gender wars," women bashing, victim thinking in men, etc. is okay. I think it's awful.

[Woggle]

I don't feel I promote gender wars. I hate the gender war actually but I can't avoid it.

[Pyro]

I don't feel I promote gender wars. I hate the gender war actually but I can't avoid it.

 

No one mentions anything about a war on here except for you.

 

That makes you the official promoter of it.

[Janesays]

This is a guy who sometimes feels like pictures of women are giving me dirty looks so you can see why I feel this way sometimes.

 

Wow.

 

Wowee.

 

That's.....insane. Straight up.

[Woggle]

Wow.

 

Wowee.

 

That's.....insane. Straight up.

 

I know it is but during my darkest moments I feel like that.

[thatone]

So true. My ex had a crippling fear of rejection. Based on what he told me, his previous gf's (with whom he had LTR's) had dumped him. Also, he kept complaining that women got men to order drinks for them, ate at their expense, etc., only to tell them "adios" at the end of the night. He hated that and couldn't accept it. It seems that he expected that, in return for his attentions, they would be putting out for sex. I, in fact, never accepted his offer to buy me drinks or eat at his expense, and I had sex with him after our third meet-up. Maybe that's why he stayed with me for as long as he did, but ultimately got bored of me and my desire for a serious relationship. Again, the problem wasn't women. The problem was with him, IN HIM, and in HIS attitude towards women. His fear of rejection was also evident in his constant threats to break up with me, every time he felt things were a bit tense. He wanted to be the one dumping me, instead of being dumped, because to him, that meant that he was doing the rejecting, rather than being rejected.

 

the threats are a learned reaction. you kick a dog, the dog learns to run away. the dog isn't a genius, it's the same thing, a learned reaction. a string of terrible women will have any man behaving like that, to an extent. because lets face it, 90 percent plus of the things men do for women early in dating/relationships are bullsh*t, just like 90 plus percent of what most women say is bullsh*t. but it doesn't take long for young men to figure out that what most women have in spades is insecurity and guilt, and that can be played on. the fact that women have those traits isn't the fault of men.

 

My ex was also terrified of being alone, but not to the extent of sacrificing even 1% of his independence. He wanted full independence and no encroachment into his "space." He wanted to have his cake and eat it too, to have a relationship without making any effort. He kept telling me that he doesn't mind being alone, but I have a feeling that he DOES, and that the fact that he said it, demonstrates his weak spot. The fact that he was alone back in the UK made him hate it, and made him go to Thailand seeking "adventure". He was torn between wanting too much of his own "space" and not wanting to be alone. Ultimately, it didn't work out because of that.

 

and you didn't see this right away? i have most women pegged in a couple of weeks, tops.

 

I found this quote a while back, about narcissists and intimacy :

 

"Narcissistic individuals have difficulty in maintaining optimal distance. The capacity to maintain optimal distance is essentially based upon a paradox. On the one hand, the lovers have to tolerate a relative loss of autonomy and self-sufficiency. On the other hand, they have to accept each other's essential separateness; after all, they have been raised by different sets of parents and grew up under different psychosocial circumstances. The narcissistic individual has difficulty in tolerating either side of this relational equation. He or she does not wish to renounce total autonomy while also not permitting a separate mental life to the other. Under the pressure of instinctual drives, the narcissistic individual comes too close to the other person and defending against the aggression, inevitably mobilized by intimacy, he withdraws and becomes cold and aloof. In contrast with the mature relatedness in love that gradually deepens, narcissistic relatedness is characterized by cycles of need-based intimacy and defensive withdrawal."

 

that describes the bulk of the single population of the United States.

[NoMoreJerks]

the threats are a learned reaction. you kick a dog, the dog learns to run away. the dog isn't a genius, it's the same thing, a learned reaction. a string of terrible women will have any man behaving like that, to an extent. because lets face it, 90 percent plus of the things men do for women early in dating/relationships are bullsh*t, just like 90 plus percent of what most women say is bullsh*t. but it doesn't take long for young men to figure out that what most women have in spades is insecurity and guilt, and that can be played on. the fact that women have those traits isn't the fault of men.

Human beings can learn AND un-learn. At 40, he should have the maturity to think about his experiences and learn the RIGHT lessons from them, not take the easy way out and expet to get a free pass as an *sshole. The fact that he treated me like sh*t when I did not wrong him in ANY way, and constantly walked on eggshels so as not to displease him, did not make me learn that all men are douchebags and that I should use and then discard them as I see fit.

 

and you didn't see this right away? i have most women pegged in a couple of weeks, tops.

Bullsh*t. It is very difficult to tell what someone's REALLY like, and what they're REALLY about, until you get to experience more of their lifestyle, and that can never happen in a couple of weeks, even if you saw them on a daily basis. It's a cumulative thing, not ONE thing that really convinces you that they are a terrible person to be with. Also, that's assuming that he's not putting in any effort at concealing his true intentions/nature, which narcissists (such as my ex) are quite good at doing at the beginning of a relationship.

[thatone]

i'll give you that it depends on how much you see each other but still, the equivalent of 4 dates should give a pretty good idea. every failed short term relationship, as in 4 to 6 months, less than a year, that wound up in a breakup there's always something i can look back on and say "yeah, should've seen that coming".

 

just as men have to learn to be emotional around women, women have to learn to rationally evaluate men, but rational is not part of a lot of women's vocabulary.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I have no problem with you disagreeing or agreeing with my original post. I posted it for discussion purposes...thought it was an interesting example. At least Verhrzn logically spoke about the example.

 

You on the other hand would rather flip a **** and get all emotional about it and rather than structure an argument that supports your side.

 

I have no problem with disagreement...in fact I encourage it. But you just flying off the handle makes discussion impossible. It is a trend i notice in your posts.

 

I'm just giving you the response you want to hear. Which is basically, it's women's fault if men are misognistic. I am scratching my head over the idea that I have "flew off the handle". Aren't you the one that suggested this was the case? That it's women's fault if men are misognistic?