Communication between spouses

[frozensprouts]

before your spouse had an affair, did you find that you communicated well? Were they open and honest with you if there were issues in your relationship or life in general? If so, did you find that changed around the time/during your the time your spouse was cheating? What about yourself?

 

If you were a wayward spouse, do you feel that you communicated well with your spouse ? Do you think your spouse would agree with your assessment of your communication abilities?

 

If you have since reconciled, do you feel that your ability to communicate with each other has improved, or is it still a work in progress?

 

( usually I wouldn't mind if other woman/men who have not been married and had a wayward spouse respond to a thread i started...but I would request that only those people who have been married and who have direct experience with this situation reply...thanks )

Edited September 17, 2012 by frozensprouts

[beenburned]

FS,

 

I have always been a good communicator in our marriage.

 

However, my H has always been a conflict avoider and passive/aggressive.

 

I think this is something he learned in his family of origin.

[frozensprouts]

FS,

 

I have always been a good communicator in our marriage.

 

However, my H has always been a conflict avoider and passive/aggressive.

 

I think this is something he learned in his family of origin.

 

 

is this something that he is trying to chnage, or have you both accepted that is who he is and you have found ways tp work around it?

[Ninja'sHusband]

My ex and I have pretty differnent communication styles, it was a fundamental problem in our relationship. I came from a family with a mother who was very loud with her emotions, would talk with people about religion and controverial topics no problem. She came from a quiet reserved family that avoided discussing anything at all controversial. She feels like I was abusive with anger (though noone else I know would say that...I'm known as beeing fairly quiet and shy). I feel like she didn't communicate her issues in the marriage directly enough or at all. The first time I got a wake up call to the issues (other than 7 years before when we went to counseling for a time) was about 2months into her affair... Our MC told her she could be more open to conflict, she told me to not have angry outbursts, we were both working on it.

 

So yeah lots of communication issues. Now that we are split and have gone through a lot of the divorce process...I'm just shocked at how much she lies, on things from small to large. It's just incredible.

[Got it]

No, we did not communicate well. My ex was an extreme conflict avoider and I am to some extent. Sex was always an issue for us but he was not open to discussing it. I was a people pleaser so that didn't help bite the bullet on issues.

 

We knew each other since kids but I am not sure how in touch we were after we married. Our dating life was argumentative a lot of the time but I actually felt closer then. In our marriage we rarely fought, but we didn't deep dive issues either. We were just polar opposites and couldn't relate to the other's perspective.

 

No, by the last few years I stopped communicating, stopped letting him into my life for a good extent, and just stopped using/needing him for any support.

 

All I can come back with is I just stopped trying. I stopped trying to put energy into it.

[frozensprouts]

myself, I tend to be quiet ( although you'd never guess it from how verbose I tend to be on here:laugh:) and find verbal communication quite difficult. I tend to take too long and worry that I'm not saying what I mean or saying the wrong thing. The same is true for non verbal communication cues...I tend not to read them very well ( I have mild aspeger's syndrome), I have found that writing things out if I am having a problem is better. I also tend to not place a huge amount of value on spoken words...actions mean much more.

 

I have often been told that I am an excellent listener, probably because I am a quiet person.

 

My husband tended to not verbalize at all...I don't think his family valued communicating one's problems very much...he was often told to "shut up " when he tried to talk about things that bothered him. I think that he, on some level, figured I'd be the same way. It too a long , long time for him to trust me enough to know that I would listen and not shoot him down...even if I don't agree with him, I do try my best to listen and talk with him about any problems he has. I told him that even if I don't agree with what you are saying, or even if it's something i may not want to hear, you need to tell me if something's bothering you"

 

not at 100% yet, and may never be, but things are a lot better

[carhill]

If you were a wayward spouse, do you feel that you communicated well with your spouse ? Do you think your spouse would agree with your assessment of your communication abilities?

I always feel improvement in communication is a healthy thing, but I do recall many specific instances in the two or so years before my EA that I clearly told my exW that I felt abandoned and needed a wife who stood by me and helped and supported me the same way I had done with/for her earlier in our M. I provided specific examples of what I wanted. My failure was giving up on communicating and, instead of seeking help to communicate better, having an EA with someone who did meet those needs at that time. I was balancing the negative aspects of the dearth of effective communication with my exW with the stresses I was dealing with otherwise and couldn't resolve that balance in a healthy way so abandoned it. In hindsight, I should have made different choices. Communication was a substantial aspect of our work in MC. Learned a lot. Once we could communicate in a clear and balanced way, that was when we made the joint decision to divorce. I remember the conversation well and still feel positive about it to this day. Even though the M failed, that point will always be a victory of growth and positive change for myself. I have no idea how my exW feels about it. Her actions of today indicate that such matters are far in her past, so I'll presume it was healthy for her too.

[Got it]

FS - how is written communication between you two? Since you are more verbose in writing and with his background of suppressing, would putting it in a written format help address and acknowledge the issue(s) in a less threatening format?

 

I have found that I do well thinking through my thoughts in writing and working through the issues before addressing verbally as I may get off topic or too emotional/animated that will drown out what I am saying.

[ComingInHot]

Great topic! Before husband's affair and after he was a super communicator. I NEVER had to wonder where he was on any topic. He was great at letting everyone know exactly what he was thinking/feeling. Problem was/is he communicates AT people, not with them. It is his view then the wrong view. He would prefer you have no say than to disagree less you pay the price... I am a strong advocate that communication is a TWO way street and the most productive outcomes happen when both sides can be heard and understood from both parties. This is still a huge issue and what I believe is holding us back from making sound progress faster after his A. He refuses counseling saying he already knows why he did what he did and how to avoid it in the future and doesn't need a councelor to tell him that. I have tried explaining that sometimes just having a mediator helps both parties to build stronger communications. No luck yet for me** I must say though that I have less problem NOT taking his crap after the A.

[frozensprouts]

FS - how is written communication between you two? Since you are more verbose in writing and with his background of suppressing, would putting it in a written format help address and acknowledge the issue(s) in a less threatening format?

 

I have found that I do well thinking through my thoughts in writing and working through the issues before addressing verbally as I may get off topic or too emotional/animated that will drown out what I am saying.

 

I find it very useful. I can plan out what I want to say and make sure I am saying what I really mean and not just blurting out things out of hurt or anger.

 

It's not what would work for everyone, but it does work well for me.

[Got it]

CIH - since listening is over 50% of communication, do you really think your husband is a super communicator? I am not sure if someone that can't put themselves in other's shoes and cannot debate because they are always right is a good communicator in my estimation.

 

I agree with you, it is definitely a two way street.

[eleanorrigby]

We still have issues, but are much better. I'm all drama and overly emotional and I think my personality overpowered him for a long time and made our problems worse.

 

D-Days exacerbated my emotions for years. The louder I got, the quieter he got.

 

We were spinning our wheels for years.

 

Finally I made a (fairly) consistent change in how I talk to him. I remind him when I'm angry and fuming about something that its not him I'm pissed at right now, it's someone else.

 

He really needs to hear that because I found out that pretty much anytime I was angry or upset he took it personally even when it was clear I was not even talking about him! He calls it "throwing my anger onto him".

 

I never understood that, I just felt like I was venting in his presence. I wasn't asking him to do anything, I was just letting off steam, but he always took it personally. It was a vicious circle because I started to just seethe about things because he would try to shut down any expression of too much emotion, and then eventually I would blow up inappropriately.

 

I felt like that girl in the old Voices Carry video. lol

 

Things are much better now, but nothing got better until I changed my behavior. I had the Divorce Busting book for years before I finally tried some of the things Michelle suggested like "act as if". <--- that one works but I found it was not easy to put into practice.

 

When I changed, he changed.

[ComingInHot]

Got It: No, you are right. He is a suck communicator. I think my sarcasm became lost as the more I wrote the hotter under the collar I got. Great dictator. Awful communicator! If he weren't on the up & up about everything else ie; open honest and transparent and in those moments he has clarity, I'd have respectfully ( or not so) declined reconciliation.

[AnotherRound]

before your spouse had an affair, did you find that you communicated well? Were they open and honest with you if there were issues in your relationship or life in general? If so, did you find that changed around the time/during your the time your spouse was cheating? What about yourself?

 

No, we didn't communicate well. We had very different styles, and it was mostly clashing, not much real communicating happening. My exH was not open and honest, as he was raised to be secretive with himself. I was open and honest, too much so in many instance, in that I was not able to filter things like I should have (I have improved, still not perfect, but working on it!)

 

As he was cheating on me, it got worse... if that was even possible, lol. He had always avoided most communication unless I was VERY gentle with it, which isn't always easy for me as I tend to be blunt and straight forward. But during the A, he just avoided me at all costs. lol He literally took different work shifts so we were only seeing each other very briefly. Or, he had his best friend at our house constantly, as a buffer (which he acknowledged when I confronted him on it) bc we couldn't/wouldn't get into "heavy" discussions with someone else present.

 

If you were a wayward spouse, do you feel that you communicated well with your spouse ? Do you think your spouse would agree with your assessment of your communication abilities?

 

I wasn't the WS, but I am betting my exH would not think I'm a good communicator. He HATED my style, and I found his terribly frustrating.

 

If you have since reconciled, do you feel that your ability to communicate with each other has improved, or is it still a work in progress?

 

We tried to reconcile, for several years, off and on. We were beating a dead horse, and I think we both knew it. I think that both of us sincerely tried in that time to adjust, adapt, so that some honest communication would happen... but it just never happened. I don't know if our styles were just too different, or we were both too inept... or what it was. But he really said it best when he described us as "oil and water"... perfect metaphor for us. We just could NOT mix.

 

( usually I wouldn't mind if other woman/men who have not been married and had a wayward spouse respond to a thread i started...but I would request that only those people who have been married and who have direct experience with this situation reply...thanks )

 

I have very little interaction with my exH now, but I think he has improved his communication skills some. As I hope that I have over the last 10 years or so since he and I last were "together". He has been married and divorced one more time, so maybe not. I will say, that when I really interacted with his family, it was very evident WHY he communicated the way that he did. And I know that my family has definitely influenced (totally taught?) me and the way that I communicate. I always felt stifled with his family, and he was always overwhelmed with mine... lol. I can look back now and see the humor, but at the time, I was SO frustrated!!!!!

[AnotherRound]

We still have issues, but are much better. I'm all drama and overly emotional and I think my personality overpowered him for a long time and made our problems worse.

 

D-Days exacerbated my emotions for years. The louder I got, the quieter he got.

 

We were spinning our wheels for years.

 

Finally I made a (fairly) consistent change in how I talk to him. I remind him when I'm angry and fuming about something that its not him I'm pissed at right now, it's someone else.

 

He really needs to hear that because I found out that pretty much anytime I was angry or upset he took it personally even when it was clear I was not even talking about him! He calls it "throwing my anger onto him".

 

I never understood that, I just felt like I was venting in his presence. I wasn't asking him to do anything, I was just letting off steam, but he always took it personally. It was a vicious circle because I started to just seethe about things because he would try to shut down any expression of too much emotion, and then eventually I would blow up inappropriately.

 

I felt like that girl in the old Voices Carry video. lol

 

Things are much better now, but nothing got better until I changed my behavior. I had the Divorce Busting book for years before I finally tried some of the things Michelle suggested like "act as if". <--- that one works but I found it was not easy to put into practice.

 

When I changed, he changed.

 

I think that the need to "fix" things is pretty common with men when it comes to communication. Generally, they don't understand us women and our "hen sessions", lol. Why we want to go over and over something, and just talk about it... all the while not really doing anything with it, just discussing it. So, when we vent to them, I think that they are trying to problem solve as they aren't sure why we would just want to talk about something for hours.

 

I think it's common, in general, for women to want to just talk about things. We generally like that kind of processing and find it helpful, whereas I think men find it frustrating.

 

This is a prime example of why we all need multiple people in our support systems... lol. I know that the men in my life have often expressed exhaustion at my analyzing. And I do know I do it excessively - again, always working on that, but it's a hard habit to break! So, I have other very close friends, male and female, that I can do some of that processing with if the man in my life is exhausted of hearing me talk about something that I'm not ready to "fix" yet.

[underwater2010]

before your spouse had an affair, did you find that you communicated well?

 

I thought that we communicated well. But my lesson to be learned is to listen even harder in the misted of an arguement. Things are more likely come out of peoples mouths then when things are calm.

 

Were they open and honest with you if there were issues in your relationship or life in general?

 

Only during an arguement. I wish he would have just sat down with me calmly to let me know how bad he was hurting. I would have figured out something else to do besides working overnight.

 

If so, did you find that changed around the time/during your the time your spouse was cheating?

 

He was just lonely. We had very little time together.

 

What about yourself?

 

That I needed to quit taking the world on my shoulders. To let him know how and when I need help.

 

If you have since reconciled, do you feel that your ability to communicate with each other has improved, or is it still a work in progress?

 

Absolutely. I do not keep quite anymore.

[Radagast]

If you were a wayward spouse, do you feel that you communicated well with your spouse ? Do you think your spouse would agree with your assessment of your communication abilities?

 

My ex-wife and I did not communicate well at all. This was something identified in our single session of marriage counselling, that my ex-wife assumed she knew what I would say so she did not bother to listen, and that she would speak over me and insist on her viewpoint as the only (rational, valid, possible) viewpoint therefore could not conceive of me not agreeing with her. When this was pointed out to her on the basis of our interaction during the session as witnessed by the counsellor, my ex-wife got up and left and refused to consider any further counselling. So clearly she would not agree with my / the counsellor's / everyone else's assessment on this matter. It really is a blind spot for her. During an email exchange while we were negotiating our divorce I had said something about her insistence on always being right, and she demanded that I retract that claim. Even her lawyer could not get her to see the irony in her behaviour.

 

My ex-wife and I had basically ceased to communicate about anything important at all. I had given up trying, as my efforts were rebuffed each time and I was told that the marriage was fine, if I was unhappy the problem must be with me since she was happy. When I told her I was having an affair she laughed in my face and told me I was delusional, no woman would look at me, and refused to discuss it any further. When I told her I had fallen in love with someone else, and would be leaving the marriage, she again rolled her eyes and told me to stop making idle threats to try to force her into marriage counselling. It was only after I had left, and not returned, that she offered marriage counselling as a bargaining chip to persuade me to return (I had taken her back after a previous separation after she promised to attend marriage counselling with me. This led to the single session I described above.) But of course by that time it was way too late.

 

Edit to add, there are no communication problems in my current marriage.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Radagast

[eleanorrigby]

This is a prime example of why we all need multiple people in our support systems... lol. I know that the men in my life have often expressed exhaustion at my analyzing. And I do know I do it excessively - again, always working on that, but it's a hard habit to break! So, I have other very close friends, male and female, that I can do some of that processing with if the man in my life is exhausted of hearing me talk about something that I'm not ready to "fix" yet.

 

We do need support systems, but I believe that (for us married folks) that support that comes from the opposite sex can be dangerous to a marriage.

 

I read an article once about how we fall in love, they did an experiment and found that just talking to someone of the opposite sex and making a lot of eye contact starts the chemical process in motion that makes us start to fall in love.

 

This is one reason why I believe that many happy marriages fall to infidelity.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

At the time I truly thought we communicated well. Many years later we discovered that we communicate very differently and play by different rules of engagement. This evolved out of our families of origin.

 

My style was to start with a Yes or No on a request from my wife based on an internal cost/benefit analysis. How much time and money is involved? Is it worth it? Would I rather do something else with that time and money? If "No", then that is not a firm No, just a starting point for a discussion on the request.

 

My wife's style is derived from her family of origin: what Father says is final; no debating, no discussions.

 

Take this dynamic and then add that my wife was not comfortable asking for something. It is a combination of the naive view of "If he loves me, he'll know what I want/need", and you don't ask others out of pride. Her family culture re-enforced this trait; not comfortable asking for anything.

 

This went on for YEARS ever since we starting dating! This created some pent-up resentment in my wife because she received my "No"s as dismissive. I interpreted her lack of response (or push back) as approval.

 

Once we realized this disconnect, it took awhile for us to change our long lived behavioral patterns. Case in point: soon after this revelation I took my wife out for a birthday dinner. That day kids and I gave her cards, bought her a nice present, took her out to a steakhouse for filet and wine, etc. Afterwards we went down the street for frozen yogurt for dessert; one of our favorite places. The whole time I was getting a vibe that I did something wrong. I inquired about this feeling throughout the night and got the typical "nothing" response. I kept prying and it turns out that she wanted a piece of birthday cake! After being married for 10+ years she never told me that "it doesn't feel like a birthday without cake".

 

I might have over-reacted but I became very upset and frustrated (emotions were still raw). At this point in our marriage and spending considerable amount of time in MC, she couldn't even tell me about a piece of cake? If she couldn't communicate something as benign as a piece of cake, then how in the h3ll will she communicate important matters? Prior to d-day I would've most likely let the vibe slide after the "nothing" response. Now I listen more closely to my instincts.

 

We've both improved. I now try to respond with a "tell me more about that" instead of Yes or No. She is better at asking for what she wants.

 

We are more cognitive of how our families of origin formed our inter-personal communication traits and tendencies.

[AnotherRound]

We do need support systems, but I believe that (for us married folks) that support that comes from the opposite sex can be dangerous to a marriage.

 

I read an article once about how we fall in love, they did an experiment and found that just talking to someone of the opposite sex and making a lot of eye contact starts the chemical process in motion that makes us start to fall in love.

 

This is one reason why I believe that many happy marriages fall to infidelity.

 

Yes, I do know many people who subscribe to this - that it's dangerous to "allow" the partner to have friends of the opposite sex. Personally, I do not agree and find that, on some levels, ludicrous. (Not the people that believe it are ludicrous, I find the idea of it being a threat to a healthy relationship ludicrous).

 

And yes, there are chemical reactions, that's a biological fact. However, it is my belief, that we have the power to "resist" those "urges" if we are truly content and fulfilled and value what we have. Imo, it would only be a threat if there was some weakness in the relationship, somewhere. Whether the WS or the BS spouse were being totally honest or not, I believe that there has to have been a weakness, even if only a tiny little crack.

 

I have been attracted to people that I did not pursue even while single. Theoretically, I had no prior commitment holding me back - so how was I able to resist those urges? Those chemical reactions? No idea, but I was and I did, for whatever reasons.

 

I have never gone outside any of my committed relationships - ever. It has never been something that I would consider doing. Not that I haven't been tempted, of course I have, that's just the nature of the world. But, I have found that when I am content with my partner, it just doesn't even cross my mind. I accept that committed or not, we will have attractions to other people - but we are not animals, and we do have a pretty high level of ability to consider consequences prior to making decisions.

 

I would be interested to know how many WS did NOT consider the possible consequences when embarking on an A. I can't imagine many just "didn't think about it". How could they not have? It's how the human brain works. Yes, there are instances where someone gives in to an impulse, and makes a mistake, and immediately regrets it. But in a LT A, I have a hard time believing that in YEARS, or even months, the WS was just being impulsive repeatedly, unable to control a chemical/biological urge. That does not ring true with anything I know of humans, or anything that science has learned of humans.

 

I guess that there could be a perceived weakness in a relationship, where only the WS had any ideas that there were issues and had not communicated this to their spouse prior to giving in to those chemical reactions and urges. But, imo, if there is even a perceived weakness - well I would consider that a weakness in the relationship.

 

In my experience with exMM, I did not "cheat" on him when I had those urges. I simply let him know that I was finding myself attracted to someone else and wanted to pursue it. I didn't have to give in to those urges, I chose to when I recognized them. The weakness in his and I relationship was simply that it was an A. I have no idea if we would have weaknesses in an out in the open relationship that would make this a danger, we've never had that experience together. But for me, even that was an effort and I had to make an effort to give in to those biological cues. I wasn't "spellbound" by my chemical reactions. I felt them, noticed them, acknowledged them, explained them to him, and explored them. It was a long process - not one that just took over my body and then I came out of the daze later shaking my head like wtf? lol

 

Maybe some people are more prone to give into those urges. If that's the case, I would wonder if it's because they are not content with where they are, if it's a weakness in them, or a combination of both. My guess would be that it's a combination of both - but that there is always some cognitive choice involved. But that's just a guess, could be wrong.

 

And ps - just thought I should add, if a partner "falls in love" with someone else, I personally believe that the relationship that they are in is, in some way, not working for them - or they would STILL be in love with the partner to the level that this wouldn't even happen as they would immediately categorize others of the opposite sex as "just friends" in their minds, and those chemical reactions would be read by them as "fond feelings" like we have with many other people in our lives that we don't want to be intimate with, even though we adore them.

Edited September 17, 2012 by AnotherRound

[eleanorrigby]

Yes, I do know many people who subscribe to this - that it's dangerous to "allow" the partner to have friends of the opposite sex. Personally, I do not agree and find that, on some levels, ludicrous. (Not the people that believe it are ludicrous, I find the idea of it being a threat to a healthy relationship ludicrous).

 

I tend to think of it like AA. If there is something that a person can't control properly, why keep tempting themselves with it?

 

 

And yes, there are chemical reactions, that's a biological fact. However, it is my belief, that we have the power to "resist" those "urges" if we are truly content and fulfilled and value what we have. Imo, it would only be a threat if there was some weakness in the relationship, somewhere. Whether the WS or the BS spouse were being totally honest or not, I believe that there has to have been a weakness, even if only a tiny little crack.

 

Sure we do have the power to resist urges if we choose to, but sometimes we can't. I can walk past Oreo cookies maybe 10 times, but the 11th will probably end up with me scarfing half the bag. I don't bring them in the house anymore. And what marriage does not have weaknesses? Everything has a weakness. We need to identify the weaknesses and shore them up.

 

 

I have been attracted to people that I did not pursue even while single. Theoretically, I had no prior commitment holding me back - so how was I able to resist those urges? Those chemical reactions? No idea, but I was and I did, for whatever reasons.

 

When I mentioned the chemical reaction I was not talking about spontaneous combustion! I don't mean that one conversation with a lot of eye contact is going to result in nekkid people by the end of the day.

 

I'm saying that for married folks it's not a good idea for either partner to be carrying on long, soul searching conversations with heterosexual people of the opposite sex on a continuous basis. This is how love starts, from what I've read, this is the initial process to getting the love chemicals to start flowing so that people will eventually hook up and propagate the species.

 

If a married couple is aware of this, what could be the problem with them both deciding to refrain from an activity that could eventually lead to something that could damage their relationship?

 

 

I have never gone outside any of my committed relationships - ever. It has never been something that I would consider doing. Not that I haven't been tempted, of course I have, that's just the nature of the world. But, I have found that when I am content with my partner, it just doesn't even cross my mind. I accept that committed or not, we will have attractions to other people - but we are not animals, and we do have a pretty high level of ability to consider consequences prior to making decisions.

 

Not everyone can take the temptation. Leave an open car door on the street and many people will pass it by, but some people will not be able to resist.

The ones that open the car door looking for something to steal know they might get caught and ruin their lives with grand theft auto charges. But they still do it, hoping they will be lucky.

I say lock your doors. And if you have a weakness for theft, don't glance at other peoples car doors.

 

 

I would be interested to know how many WS did NOT consider the possible consequences when embarking on an A. I can't imagine many just "didn't think about it". How could they not have? It's how the human brain works. Yes, there are instances where someone gives in to an impulse, and makes a mistake, and immediately regrets it. But in a LT A, I have a hard time believing that in YEARS, or even months, the WS was just being impulsive repeatedly, unable to control a chemical/biological urge. That does not ring true with anything I know of humans, or anything that science has learned of humans.

Of course they thought about it. Then they decided on the affair. But before they even got to deciding to enter the affair they put themselves in harms way by allowing feelings to develop.

 

I guess that there could be a perceived weakness in a relationship, where only the WS had any ideas that there were issues and had not communicated this to their spouse prior to giving in to those chemical reactions and urges. But, imo, if there is even a perceived weakness - well I would consider that a weakness in the relationship.

 

All relationships have weaknesses.

 

 

In my experience with exMM, I did not "cheat" on him when I had those urges. I simply let him know that I was finding myself attracted to someone else and wanted to pursue it. I didn't have to give in to those urges, I chose to when I recognized them. The weakness in his and I relationship was simply that it was an A. I have no idea if we would have weaknesses in an out in the open relationship that would make this a danger, we've never had that experience together. But for me, even that was an effort and I had to make an effort to give in to those biological cues. I wasn't "spellbound" by my chemical reactions. I felt them, noticed them, acknowledged them, explained them to him, and explored them. It was a long process - not one that just took over my body and then I came out of the daze later shaking my head like wtf? lol

 

Like I said, I don't mean the love fairy zaps people that happen to start talking to each other. It's a process. The first step in the process to falling in love is intimate communication and sustained eye contact.

 

 

Maybe some people are more prone to give into those urges. If that's the case, I would wonder if it's because they are not content with where they are, if it's a weakness in them, or a combination of both. My guess would be that it's a combination of both - but that there is always some cognitive choice involved. But that's just a guess, could be wrong.

 

That's what I'm saying, it could be both. Good marriages and bad marriages alike. I believe that marriages that never experience infidelity have spouses with very clear boundaries on what is correct behavior for married people.

 

 

And ps - just thought I should add, if a partner "falls in love" with someone else, I personally believe that the relationship that they are in is, in some way, not working for them - or they would STILL be in love with the partner to the level that this wouldn't even happen as they would immediately categorize others of the opposite sex as "just friends" in their minds, and those chemical reactions would be read by them as "fond feelings" like we have with many other people in our lives that we don't want to be intimate with, even though we adore them.

 

I don't agree, same points as above.

[seren]

My whole life I have been a fixer and a listener. I always, but always tried to head problems off before they festered by talking and listening, my job depended on my being able to communicate well, to read body language and to facilitate talking. I come from a family of talkers and problem solvers, H comes from a family where communication was superficial. He has always been a conflict avoider, that I was a fixer meant that our relationship was based upon me taking the initiative to make sure life chugged along with me attempting to bat off stress from affecting him. I figured he couldn't cope with stress as well as I and while I was right, I can see, in retrospect, that what I did was to excuse a lot of his avoidance behaviour and fix things.

 

We always talked about issues, feelings etc, then I changed jobs, encouraged by H to climb the success ladder, which I did but which meant long hours. H was posted to another camp and we drifted. I would ask what's wrong? he would say nothing's the matter and so we continued. When H came back from his 3rd tour in Iraq I knew something was off, his behaviour changed and I wondered if his personality had been sucked out of his ears by aliens. I was careful to use the we word rather than you, mainly to avoid him feeling got at. he would say nothing was wrong, I suggested counselling, he would say nothing was the matter. Then began the, I am not good enough for you, I am a bad person and I could see he was self destructing before my eyes.

 

I hadn't a clue how to make him open up, believe me I tried. it was so dammed sad watching our marriage splinter, we had always had a fantastic relationship, full of love, laughter and like. It was like being in a film, I could see us breaking and had no way of how to fix it. In the end I said that if he wanted to, we could divorce and that I would fix things so it would be easy for him. he said he couldn't imagine being without me and that I was better off without him. Dammed awful time.

 

Then he told me he had, had an 8 month, sporadic affair. I knew right away who it was as she had told me she fancied my H numerous times. I was floored. The floodgates opened and he talked and talked and I listened. he said he didn't feel good enough for me and felt I didn't need him. My bad for not noticing he felt this way sooner.

 

Things have changed much, I no longer work as I am medically retired, he is no longer in the forces and we moved to a remote spot to live our dream. We talk, we argue, we share tasks more. H is still a conflict avoider, but I don't carry all the stuff anymore and discuss things with him so we can sort it out. It feels more equal and I discuss any problems with him. TBH he has been my rock this past few years, illness, not working and dealing with the hurt of the A and he has had IC for PTSD has been met head on and he has proven that he is able to cope, to be and more importantly to himself. Poor communication is not just about talking sometimes it is also about not really listening or paying attention to red flags. I think we have sorted that out very well.

 

Hindsight eh?

[SidLyon]

before your spouse had an affair, did you find that you communicated well? Were they open and honest with you if there were issues in your relationship or life in general? If so, did you find that changed around the time/during your the time your spouse was cheating? What about yourself?

 

If you were a wayward spouse, do you feel that you communicated well with your spouse ? Do you think your spouse would agree with your assessment of your communication abilities?

 

If you have since reconciled, do you feel that your ability to communicate with each other has improved, or is it still a work in progress?

 

( usually I wouldn't mind if other woman/men who have not been married and had a wayward spouse respond to a thread i started...but I would request that only those people who have been married and who have direct experience with this situation reply...thanks )

 

I know I wanted to communicate but it felt like he always batted back to me anything important, without contributing himself. I think this happened way before he stated cheating and got worse when he did. I had almost given up on him and felt it was "just the way he is". To be frank it always was the way he was.

 

After d-day when the extent of his cheating was revealed, he desperately wanted to stay married. At that point I indicated I was no longer willing to accept that it is "just the way he is" and that if he wanted to move forward with me then he would need to make some radical changes. I think for the first time he "got" that it was up to him to do something, or he would have flawed relationships for the rest of his life. I suppose it helped that his OW and other family members had made similar comments over the years.

 

I know absolutely how difficult it is to make significant changes to habits and patterns of years so nearly 4 years after d-day I continue to be astonished at the efforts he has made and continues to make.

 

I have also done my share but in a different way. I am trying to listen to him and not judge him before he's finished. I have also had to do the lion's share of overcoming the unexpected and long-term betrayal. We are both aware of our roles in the drama and what we need to do from now on.

 

My fWH is a brilliant man but has flaws. I am the Mensa member in our family, but he is far more of a genius than I am.

 

At the moment all is good for us.

[AnotherRound]

My whole life I have been a fixer and a listener. I always, but always tried to head problems off before they festered by talking and listening, my job depended on my being able to communicate well, to read body language and to facilitate talking. I come from a family of talkers and problem solvers, H comes from a family where communication was superficial. He has always been a conflict avoider, that I was a fixer meant that our relationship was based upon me taking the initiative to make sure life chugged along with me attempting to bat off stress from affecting him. I figured he couldn't cope with stress as well as I and while I was right, I can see, in retrospect, that what I did was to excuse a lot of his avoidance behaviour and fix things.

 

We always talked about issues, feelings etc, then I changed jobs, encouraged by H to climb the success ladder, which I did but which meant long hours. H was posted to another camp and we drifted. I would ask what's wrong? he would say nothing's the matter and so we continued. When H came back from his 3rd tour in Iraq I knew something was off, his behaviour changed and I wondered if his personality had been sucked out of his ears by aliens. I was careful to use the we word rather than you, mainly to avoid him feeling got at. he would say nothing was wrong, I suggested counselling, he would say nothing was the matter. Then began the, I am not good enough for you, I am a bad person and I could see he was self destructing before my eyes.

 

I hadn't a clue how to make him open up, believe me I tried. it was so dammed sad watching our marriage splinter, we had always had a fantastic relationship, full of love, laughter and like. It was like being in a film, I could see us breaking and had no way of how to fix it. In the end I said that if he wanted to, we could divorce and that I would fix things so it would be easy for him. he said he couldn't imagine being without me and that I was better off without him. Dammed awful time.

 

Then he told me he had, had an 8 month, sporadic affair. I knew right away who it was as she had told me she fancied my H numerous times. I was floored. The floodgates opened and he talked and talked and I listened. he said he didn't feel good enough for me and felt I didn't need him. My bad for not noticing he felt this way sooner.

 

Things have changed much, I no longer work as I am medically retired, he is no longer in the forces and we moved to a remote spot to live our dream. We talk, we argue, we share tasks more. H is still a conflict avoider, but I don't carry all the stuff anymore and discuss things with him so we can sort it out. It feels more equal and I discuss any problems with him. TBH he has been my rock this past few years, illness, not working and dealing with the hurt of the A and he has had IC for PTSD has been met head on and he has proven that he is able to cope, to be and more importantly to himself. Poor communication is not just about talking sometimes it is also about not really listening or paying attention to red flags. I think we have sorted that out very well.

 

Hindsight eh?

 

I think this happens a lot in relationships. The mismatched communication styles. What you described very much describes myself and my exH (me being the talker, him the cram it downer), and also what exMM has described to me about him and his stbxw (him being the talker, her the one that didn't). It's frustrating for both parties I think, but more so for the talkers. We are naturally wired to want to figure things out - others, not so much.

 

I think it is a level of understanding things. Some people are very content to have very surface knowledge, as it is all they need, and they are happy and content that way. They can often be extremely uncomfortable baring their soul about things much deeper - thoughts, feelings, fears, etc. Others (like me, exMM, and apparently you) need MUCH more than that to feel content. We need to understand, to figure it out, to fix it, or at least make it somewhat better... to know WHY it's like that, how did it get like that, and what can we do with it now?

 

I was very frustrated with my exH due to the differences in our need to understand, talk about, and fix things. He just seemed to chug along with little or no understanding or depth of thinking about "us" or our marriage. Whereas I wanted it to be the best it could be, and was desperate to discuss the issues I was feeling and/or observing between us. I think in his mind, he thought talking about it made it WORSE. I obviously disagreed and thought that putting everything on the table and examining it would allow us to make it BETTER.

 

It is definitely a family of origin issue, and that was evident in his family and mine, in the way they interacted with each other. There are NO secrets in my family when it comes to how someone feels or thinks. You have to talk LOUD to get heard sometimes bc everyone is expressive. His family? The dinners were so quiet and, what I would call "formal" maybe, that you literally could hear people's silverware scraping the plates. That may have been the first time I ever heard that sound, bc at our dinners, that was drowned out by the conversations! lol

 

I used to think his way was "wrong", but as the years have gone by, and I have been working in a field where communication is KEY, I see it's not wrong, if done in a healthy way. In fact, he and I were both polar ends of the same pole... somewhere in the middle for each of us would have been better. He could have learned to open up at least a little, and I could have learned to hold back at least a little. If we could have figured that out, we might have been amazing together!

 

I personally enjoy a relationship more when I'm with another talker. Yes, there are times it is difficult to get a word in, and that combo has its own issues, certainly. But if I have a choice, it is what I would choose. At least I understand that, and can work with it! lol The other way, where it is like pulling teeth to get ANYTHING out of someone, is just too time consuming and patience trying for me. I talk fast, because I think fast... and I like someone that is the same in that aspect. I want someone to go along with me to those depths, not someone that I have to drag along against their will!

[seren]

Another Round, I recognised the similarities in thinking and thought processes in your posts. I come from a family of talkers and nurturers and let's face whatever is wrong and sort it and fix it. Probably explained my career path. I have learned, IRL, to keep quiet sometimes as what seems so dammed obvious to me is not so for others and I too am the Mensa bod.

First time I went to H's family for dinner, his Mum brought out a dammed hostess trolley, we had fish forks and it was all so proper I had a long fit of the giggles, which in my house would have had us all laughing, in his they all thought I was high from the smell of over boiled cabbage!!