Change Yourself To Be Attractive?

September 17, 2012

I want help, but I want help that makes sense and doesn't just hand-wave away my experiences. Find a LOGICAL way to explain that if I'm physically attractive and all that, why do I never get hit on? Why do guys either treat me badly or treat me as invisible?

I've had it pointed out to me several times, when someone is checking me out. A few weeks ago, when I had a pile of books and was taking notes in a bookstore, my dad, who had been walking around, talking to my mother on the phone, told me that one guy kept looking over his shoulder at me - I would never have known if he hadn't told me, because he didn't approach.

One guy, that I didn't feel attracted to at all, approached me and said something to me at the magazine shelves, but didn't stick around after I responded, and turned my face back to the magazines. I was nice to him, though. I wondered if he was really interested in me, or just practicing his approach.

Sometimes, not getting hit on has nothing to do with you - it seems like most guys are afraid to approach in the first place. I can relate to other things, but this is one thing that has really hit home, although I sometimes go into the negative side of things: "If I were pretty enough, they would have talked to me," but I don't know that for sure.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Anela

September 17, 2012

Sometimes, not getting hit on has nothing to do with you - it seems like most guys are afraid to approach in the first place. I can relate to other things, but this is one thing that has really hit home, although I sometimes go into the negative side of things: "If I were pretty enough, they would have talked to me," but I don't know that for sure.

Sure, but I don't get checked out either. Yes, I look.... and I have my friends look as well, and they never notice. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

Since you believe this, why do you spend so much time arguing with all the people here on LoveShack? Or even asking questions?

Because I have no place else to talk about it, and if I talk about it, it doesn't stay stored in my head and fester.

I tried staying off LS for a while. The result was either I started talking about this stuff with people around me, which they HATED, or it all piled up in my head until I was snarling at every stranger on the street.

I need to talk about this stuff. But by no means does that equal people needing to read it. I really don't get why such people just don't stay out of my threads. And when they show up to taunt me, and call me a train wreck, or how pathetic/annoying/whiny I am, why they claim ignorance when I point out how much people on this board dislike me.

Except … you are actually dating at the moment. So all of this "never" talk doesn't seem quite genuine.

Yeah, a relationship where he's moving to grad school, will be surrounded by hot, smart women, when I can't find a job outside my current situation, and where everybody on this board agrees the whole relationship is doomed.

September 17, 2012

No, I guess I wouldn't find that exhausting. For the same reason I don't see it as bad about myself.... maybe they aren't negative about themselves, but just describing how the world sees them. And if they can argue my compliments down, then maybe I'm not being sincere enough.

Yet more proof I'm weird, I guess.

I guess the thing I find confusing in this is:

- If you are telling them nice things about themselves, then aren't you representing a view of how the world sees them?

But then you say that you wouldn't blame them if they don't believe you due to not being sincere enough.

Seems like the person giving a positive view of how the world sees them is automatically bound to be seen as insincere -> maybe just to have that view dismissed and to validate to the person getting the compliment that there are truly no good views out there.

So I have another question, if you don't mind:

- Lets say that you don't believe nice things that are said to you because they don't seem to be said sincerely enough - does the same condition apply to the negative things said to you, or do you automatically take those to heart? - Wouldn't the bad things need to be said sincerely as well to be believable?

And what constitutes "sincere enough"?

September 17, 2012

I guess the thing I find confusing in this is:
- If you are telling them nice things about themselves, then aren't you representing a view of how the world sees them?

But then you say that you wouldn't blame them if they don't believe you due to not being sincere enough.

Seems like the person giving a positive view of how the world sees them is automatically bound to be seen as insincere -> maybe just to have that view dismissed and to validate to the person getting the compliment that there are truly no good views out there.

So I have another question, if you don't mind:
- Lets say that you don't believe nice things that are said to you because they don't seem to be said sincerely enough - does the same condition apply to the negative things said to you, or do you automatically take those to heart? - Wouldn't the bad things need to be said sincerely as well to be believable?

And what constitutes "sincere enough"?

"Sincere" might be the wrong word. Maybe "consensus" is better. So, 1 person out of 100 says your smile is pretty, but 99 say it is not, I don't consider the compliment as "sincere," because it is not held by the majority.

I subscribe to a universal truth idea... The concept that we all share the same basic reality. I believe the negative things said about me, because I have heard those negative things more often. If I heard more positive things more often, I'd believe those.

September 17, 2012

I'd try to comprehend them if someone would explain them to me.

How can I accept something that is illogical? I can't react illogically to an illogical situation, so how am I supposed to react? It makes no sense.

Maybe you aren't supposed to "react"

I accept illogical things everyday. Attraction itself, is a highly illogical thing. As is the idea of giving out energy from our being, or our aura. It's illogical to people, but even I can understand it. I am a logical person, but I seem to have an innate understanding of things that are not logical.

You might think that your negativity is just simply a realism, product of your experiences. That sounds logical to me. The illogical part is that it's simply an extreme state of living, and you don't seem to understand that it's not realistic. When we tell you to "be positive", we don't mean to be unerringly optimistic to the point of nausea - we simply mean to have a more objective view that doesn't paint yourself as some pariah of sorts. It is BECAUSE you view yourself as a pariah, that people treat you like that. Illogical, it should be the other way round shouldn't it?

You seem quite close-minded to certain things, as though they are simply to be written off because to you they aren't logical. The undying need to have some logical explanation for these things will count against you really truly being able to understand them. Maybe if someone someday can put these things into a more logical way that people like you can understand then it would be more helpful I'm sure. Till then, try not to completely dismiss things that might carry a more esoteric feel to it, much like the advice you are being given.

September 17, 2012

I subscribe to a universal truth idea... The concept that we all share the same basic reality. I believe the negative things said about me, because I have heard those negative things more often. If I heard more positive things more often, I'd believe those.

"Universal Truth is not measured in mass appeal" ~ Immortal Technique

September 17, 2012

Yeah, a relationship where he's moving to grad school, will be surrounded by hot, smart women, when I can't find a job outside my current situation, and where everybody on this board agrees the whole relationship is doomed.

When does school start?

And, as per earlier comment in this thread, I haven't stated an opinion on whether it's doomed... but you have selective hearing... so I'm sure it's still "everybody" even after you read this.

September 17, 2012

Maybe you aren't supposed to "react"

I accept illogical things everyday. Attraction itself, is a highly illogical thing. As is the idea of giving out energy from our being, or our aura. It's illogical to people, but even I can understand it. I am a logical person, but I seem to have an innate understanding of things that are not logical.

You might think that your negativity is just simply a realism, product of your experiences. That sounds logical to me. The illogical part is that it's simply an extreme state of living, and you don't seem to understand that it's not realistic. When we tell you to "be positive", we don't mean to be unerringly optimistic to the point of nausea - we simply mean to have a more objective view that doesn't paint yourself as some pariah of sorts. It is BECAUSE you view yourself as a pariah, that people treat you like that. Illogical, it should be the other way round shouldn't it?

You seem quite close-minded to certain things, as though they are simply to be written off because to you they aren't logical. The undying need to have some logical explanation for these things will count against you really truly being able to understand them. Maybe if someone someday can put these things into a more logical way that people like you can understand then it would be more helpful I'm sure. Till then, try not to completely dismiss things that might carry a more esoteric feel to it, much like the advice you are being given.

Except I already said that I treat myself like a pariah because other people treat me like that. It did NOT start with me. And I DO have an objective view point of myself... just because it has a majority of "negative" traits does not mean it's not objective. There are things in the world that are more negative than they are positive. Not everything is split 50/50, or with the positive overwhelming.

And if something can't be explained, then why should I accept it? Where is the value in accepting things that cannot be explained or proven? It's how people end up believing in crock pot theories and psuedo facts like how vaccines cause autism. Do I really want to be among them?...

September 17, 2012

When does school start?

And, as per earlier comment in this thread, I haven't stated an opinion on whether it's doomed... but you have selective hearing... so I'm sure it's still "everybody" even after you read this.

He'll be applying in February for fall 2013.

Well you haven't said it ISN'T doomed either.

September 17, 2012

I.... don't consider those blessings, I consider most of those things I work my butt off for. Blessings are things life gives us... life hasn't given me health, a safe home, or a decent job. I don't do my martial arts any more (too expensive, and people on this forum told me constantly it was sh*t for exercise, so fine), and uh.... how is watching the sunrise a blessing? I don't really-like the sunrise.

Lots of us work our butts off for our blessings. I don't expect life to hand me anything at all, but I am mightily blessed.

Change your attitude, change your life.

September 17, 2012

Lots of us work our butts off for our blessings. I don't expect life to hand me anything at all, but I am mightily blessed.

Change your attitude, change your life.

And my attitude is what, that I should be thankful for myself for giving me the things I have to have? (Have to have work to survive.) I really don't understand your definition of "blessings."

September 17, 2012

Except I already said that I treat myself like a pariah because other people treat me like that. It did NOT start with me. And I DO have an objective view point of myself... just because it has a majority of "negative" traits does not mean it's not objective. There are things in the world that are more negative than they are positive. Not everything is split 50/50, or with the positive overwhelming.

See, even now, you can't even entertain the idea. Maybe you bounced from one extreme (uber positive), to another (uber negative). It doesn't serve your purpose to think of yourself the way that you do. Ironically, it is the most illogical thing about you.

And if something can't be explained, then why should I accept it? Where is the value in accepting things that cannot be explained or proven? It's how people end up believing in crock pot theories and psuedo facts like how vaccines cause autism. Do I really want to be among them?...

What do you have to lose by accepting it? Or at least attempting to understand it without having people spend so much time trying to spell it out to you yet you still don't get it?

I don't think you will ever get it to be honest, which is sad. It means you will stay like this. I wish I was more bothered to explain absolutely everything right now, but honestly, I don't have the energy. For now, I only ask you to do your own research and try to understand why the way you think is wrong, or at least, bad for you.

By the way, mercury in the vaccines DO accelerate autism. I was vaccinated.....coincidence?

September 17, 2012

Nope! In childhood I was an annoyingly upbeat kid. Very hyper, very bouncy and chatty and friendly. My peers HATED me because I was so outgoing. My friends used to complain about how annoying I was, not because I was negative, but because I wasn't. I developed being negative as a reaction somewhere in middle school.... I just finally got fed up trying to be happy with myself and getting bullied for it.

Fun story: when I was in 4th grade, my best friend tried to turn the entire grade against me. She chased me down on the playground, and started choking me, because.... well, I don't know why. From elementary to high school, if I wasn't her friend she would bully me (leaving mean notes in my locker) and turn other girls against me, and put on big dramatic scenes of how she liked me SO much and we were SO close. When I finally gave in, she would tell me how awful I was and how no one liked me. If THAT wouldn't make someone negative, I don't know what will.... But it wasn't the result of me being negative.

You kind of missed the point, since childhood you have had a negative out look on life. It doesn't matter when it started exactly, but you have had a negative outlook, for like half your life. More importantly you have it the entire time you have been old enough to date.

Could you please explain WHY my personality wouldn't work with geek guys? And if my personality doesn't work with them, who would it work with? (Considering they are the only brand of guys who showed even a vague interest when I pursued them.)

Technically you personality will work with any classification of guy. However, my personal experiences tell me you are far less likely to find a geek that meshes well with your personality.

I'm a software developer by trade, but my geek cred ends there. However, almost of all my co-workers are what you are looking for. They are all mid 20's geeky video game playing comic book reading analytic types. They don't mesh well with you, because they are introverted, & combative, and several of them are insecure to boot. I'm not saying every geek is this way, just that geeks seem much more prone to being this way.

The ones that are in relationships, are all dating women with personalities a lot like you had as a child. They are non combative, un-intimidating, outgoing life of the party types. This draws they geeky guys to them, because they are what the guys are not, and together they form a balanced couple.

Your traits being so similar to theirs would bring out the combative, argumentative, & insecure traits in a geeky guy. You have been part of this first had i think. did you get into an argument with a guy at a bar about some geeky necklace you had on or something like that?

September 17, 2012

See, even now, you can't even entertain the idea. Maybe you bounced from one extreme (uber positive), to another (uber negative). It doesn't serve your purpose to think of yourself the way that you do. Ironically, it is the most illogical thing about you.

Why is it illogical, when it's founded on the observations and experiences of how people treat me?

What do you have to lose by accepting it? Or at least attempting to understand it without having people spend so much time trying to spell it out to you yet you still don't get it?

I don't think you will ever get it to be honest, which is sad. It means you will stay like this. I wish I was more bothered to explain absolutely everything right now, but honestly, I don't have the energy. For now, I only ask you to do your own research and try to understand why the way you think is wrong, or at least, bad for you.

By the way, mercury in the vaccines DO accelerate autism. I was vaccinated.....coincidence?

Um.... yes, coincidence. I really, really hope you are kidding here. Because if you are not, it's pretty much invalidated everything you've said. Because I don't listen to people who believe things without evidence, for this exact reason. It's dangerous to spread around falsehoods and unfounded facts.

September 17, 2012

Technically you personality will work with any classification of guy. However, my personal experiences tell me you are far less likely to find a geek that meshes well with your personality.

I'm a software developer by trade, but my geek cred ends there. However, almost of all my co-workers are what you are looking for. They are all mid 20's geeky video game playing comic book reading analytic types. They don't mesh well with you, because they are introverted, & combative, and several of them are insecure to boot. I'm not saying every geek is this way, just that geeks seem much more prone to being this way.

The ones that are in relationships, are all dating women with personalities a lot like you had as a child. They are non combative, un-intimidating, outgoing life of the party types. This draws they geeky guys to them, because they are what the guys are not, and together they form a balanced couple.

Your traits being so similar to theirs would bring out the combative, argumentative, & insecure traits in a geeky guy. You have been part of this first had i think. did you get into an argument with a guy at a bar about some geeky necklace you had on or something like that?

Um, you just said my personality would work with any classification of guy, and then contradicted yourself by saying it wouldn't work with nerds. So what exactly are you trying to say??

Because it sounds like what you're saying is, the same guys who would be even vaguely interested in dating you, don't have the personality to date you. And the guys who would have a personality to date you, don't want to date you.

Which means that you're confirming what I've been saying all along, in that I am not attractive to anyone.... and thus should I change everything about myself.

September 17, 2012

And my attitude is what, that I should be thankful for myself for giving me the things I have to have? (Have to have work to survive.) I really don't understand your definition of "blessings."

Thankful the the health and the ability and the opportunity to work for the things you have.

Many people in this world work twice as hard as you for far less than half as much. That's reality.

September 17, 2012

Thankful the the health and the ability and the opportunity to work for the things you have.

Many people in this world work twice as hard as you for far less than half as much. That's reality.

And many people in this world work half as hard as me for twice what I have. And have other things I want on top of that.

I've never understood saying "Well other people have less than you so be grateful!" Other people have more than me, so by the same logic, shouldn't I also be bitter?? Why should I be grateful, but not bitter?

September 17, 2012

And many people in this world work half as hard as me for twice what I have. And have other things I want on top of that.

I've never understood saying "Well other people have less than you so be grateful!" Other people have more than me, so by the same logic, shouldn't I also be bitter?? Why should I be grateful, but not bitter?

Because gratitude leads to satisfaction.

Do you want to be happy or miserable? The choice is yours.

But if you choose misery, own the choice.

September 17, 2012

He'll be applying in February for fall 2013.

Great! So you've got a year to find a job near his school. Plenty of time for something to become available if you keep looking. There's even time to improve your skills to get a better job. Is it an area that has cheaper living costs than where you are now? That would be good!

Well you haven't said it ISN'T doomed either.

Are you really going to argue with a stranger on the internet to try to convince me to tell you that I think your relationship is doomed? I suggest that would be seriously ****ed up, so let's not go there.

September 17, 2012

Why is it illogical, when it's founded on the observations and experiences of how people treat me?

It's illogical because you allow people to treat you like that and then complain about it. If people treated me the way they treat you, I would either figure out why and sort it out, or I would punch the person right in the face if it was unjust. The end. That's my logic.

Um.... yes, coincidence. I really, really hope you are kidding here. Because if you are not, it's pretty much invalidated everything you've said. Because I don't listen to people who believe things without evidence, for this exact reason. It's dangerous to spread around falsehoods and unfounded facts.

I was kidding - autism runs in my family, I have autistic cousins. It's not a farfetched theory to me - but that's because I don't believe everything I read - including by "cold, hard facts".

Either way, I'm not continuing this discussion. It's clear you don't want help, you don't want to improve, you want to stay the way you are and be miserable. You cannot even attempt to consider something that just might be outside of your radar, without hold steadfastly to your faulty way of thinking that is damaging your psyche. Everything that everyone is telling you is wrong then, we're all wrong, and you're right. So maybe it's true then, maybe everyone does hate you then and there's nothing you can do about it. Let's say you're right then. You suck. What then?

September 17, 2012

Because gratitude leads to satisfaction.

Do you want to be happy or miserable? The choice is yours.

But if you choose misery, own the choice.

I don't see how "grateful" leads to satisfaction. On the times I've been all "Eastern-thought" oriented and tried it out, it just lead me.... back to where I am currently. I don't feel better for feeling "grateful," I actually feel kind of guilty for having stuff when other people don't, and then the guilt makes me feel like I should be working harder, and then I work harder but then feel resentful that I work so hard but can't come out ahead.... etc.

I also feel it is overly tinged with spiritual implications, which I am not a fan of. Who am I being grateful to? The universe? Other people? Some nebulous energy?

Glad being grateful works for you, but one size does not fit all.

September 17, 2012

Let's say you as a person are fundamentally unattractive. There is nothing bad about you per say, you just have an unattractive package... Speaking for myself, my personality is annoying to the great majority of people. I am too intense, I am too analytic, I am too loud and talkative and annoying. There is nothing fundamentally BAD about me; I am not mean, or greedy, or cruel, or selfish, etc. I am just unattractive, or have a strange mental make-up.

Should you change your entire personality to be more attractive? Should you change who you fundamentally are as a person to have a chance at a relationship? Goes back to the idea that if you're ugly, should you get plastic surgery?

If it's the difference between changing absolutely everything about you, or being single forever, which would you choose?

i get fit for strength whether i am skinny or overweight my self image doesnt change but how i carry myself does.God gave me extremely broad shoulders and bones that have never been broken when i get to skinny it is all you see i look very bony but still cant change the fact i carry extra padding i have hips when the bones stick out i bruise them......so my fitness level is more important than how skinny i am or how i look...i can be an extremist.....my mental state is important though and fitness helps.Every woman has a hard time with insecurities if a woman tells you she doesnt

she is lying there is always something she would like improved whether it be eye sight energy levels confidence faith hope or wishes.....every woman at one time or another feels fat.....especially child bearing women every woman who is a mother wishes she didnt feel so tired not enough hours in the day....etc.....everybody male or female strives to do better or they are seriously stuffed.Every one needs to learn.....no one is perfect and these imperfections are what play on our minds.......i have a list......smilin....i would like to be a deep sea squid for a day with multiple legs.......dont think ill get it god is rolling around laughing at the moment his line is busy on the deep sea squid request......i will always find room for improvement in all aspects of my life....when you stop finding room for improvement apathy sets in....who wants that......improve but dotn hate what you have.....deb

September 17, 2012

I was kidding - autism runs in my family, I have autistic cousins. It's not a farfetched theory to me - but that's because I don't believe everything I read - including by "cold, hard facts".

Either way, I'm not continuing this discussion. It's clear you don't want help, you don't want to improve, you want to stay the way you are and be miserable. You cannot even attempt to consider something that just might be outside of your radar, without hold steadfastly to your faulty way of thinking that is damaging your psyche. Everything that everyone is telling you is wrong then, we're all wrong, and you're right. So maybe it's true then, maybe everyone does hate you then and there's nothing you can do about it. Let's say you're right then. You suck. What then?

Yeeeeeah, I don't think you ever get to question my illogical assumptions again, if you even entertain for more than minutes that whole theory. You SHOULD believe "cold hard facts" that are scientifically viable. And it is scientifically proven that vaccines does not lead to autism. Period. End of story.

No wonder people don't buy my evidence. You guys are skeptical of everything and anything even when it's directly in your face. No wonder I have such a hard time here.

If I suck, then at least I can get sympathy, and stop being blamed/yelled at/judged for it. It'd be so, so wonderful to just be able to say "Guys don't like me" without IMMEDIATELY being pelted with demands for me to prove it, or how I'm wrong, or how to fix it. Sometimes, I just want to be able to say "Goddamnit, I hate the cards I was dealt" and be done.

But it'd also be nice to have support in giving up. I've asked for advice on this forum before on how to give up on dating/relationships, and posters always treat it like a giant joke. If people believed me that I suck, that it's pointless to try, then they could actually give me concrete advice on how to rid myself of a desire for the things I desperately want.

September 17, 2012

I don't see how "grateful" leads to satisfaction. On the times I've been all "Eastern-thought" oriented and tried it out, it just lead me.... back to where I am currently. I don't feel better for feeling "grateful," I actually feel kind of guilty for having stuff when other people don't, and then the guilt makes me feel like I should be working harder, and then I work harder but then feel resentful that I work so hard but can't come out ahead.... etc.

I also feel it is overly tinged with spiritual implications, which I am not a fan of. Who am I being grateful to? The universe? Other people? Some nebulous energy?

Glad being grateful works for you, but one size does not fit all.

You can disregard it, but the opposite seems to be working as predicted in your life. You focus on the things you want, feeling no gratitude for what you have, and you are miserable. Cause and effect?

September 17, 2012

You can disregard it, but the opposite seems to be working as predicted in your life. You focus on the things you want, feeling no gratitude for what you have, and you are miserable. Cause and effect?

And I focus on the things I have, and be grateful, and then feel guilty and miserable. Maybe I am a robot, and just don't *get" gratitude. I am neither religious or spiritual, and gratitude seems to have an innately spiritual component.

So how about suggesting something that I've stated several times I don't get and doesn't work for me, we could try something else, and not just judge me because I don't function in the same way?

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