Judgment vs. discernment

[ComingInHot]

I think this topic is pertinent to this forum: I've read LOTS here since I joined. Many times I have read if certain actions should be taken against someone and where feelings should be focused. It can get pretty heated & I understand why. Many people feel or ARE judged by their comments which leads me to ALL parties involved in an affair the difference between Judging vs. Discerning. Judging = condeming while Discerning = seeing something for what it is good or bad. I believe it is crucial to discern whether something is good or bad and proceed accordingly whether that is in a job, relationship, children's friends etc. I DON'T believe it is my right to judge a person and pass sentence. For me, it has taken the pressure off of my past triangle and the emotions within and to move forward using discerment for future situations. Thoughts anyone?

[Ninja'sHusband]

The difference is very subtle. I think the question for me was, "What am I willing to tolerate in this relationship before I decide to no longer be in it". There's vengeance, which shouldn't be a goal. Then there's exposing the affair, which could be called vengeance or simply exposing truth for the safety of everyone, especially the BS' families.

[ComingInHot]

NH: I have been putting the practice of discernment into everything I do everyday for two years (actually more like a year and a half*) and I see it at work in my life and think there is a big difference between that and judging. In the case of an aquaintence that cheated on her husband. It came out with a group of gals and I did not say a word. (I don't know her). She took my silence as judgment and let me know that. I was able to say with all my heart to her that I am looking at the affair only and am going to see it for what it is, not good. I then let her know that taking the A out of the equation, I could see she was hurting and I felt compassion for her. She stood up walked over to me (I thought she might slug me) and gave me a big hug and said thank you. Do we talk, are we friends, no. I discern that the A she was in was bad for me to be around.

[carhill]

Discernment IMO is clarifying my own issues, experiences and life path, and judgement is applying those clarifications to someone else in the form of an opinion; essentially projecting my discernment upon them. As we each live and process life in our own unique way, we can live no other life than our own and only have complete knowledge and understanding of our own life experiences. Society, over time, has blended the discernment of the many into socialized morals and legal laws, aspects of which are always in flux, as evidenced by the flow/change of generalized judgments of both society in the moral sense and the judiciary in the legal sense. Nothing stays the same.

 

I liked the process our MC used, that of achieving clarity and discovery and acceptance of what is. I remember, one time in MC, I stated 'I feel manipulated'. The MC simply asked 'why?'. That started an interesting and revealing conversation.

 

With regards to forum interactions, it's pretty easy to tell the different styles of posting and which conform to the rules we agree to when joining and which do not. All styles are valid; it's just that some are disallowed within this particular forum of expression. There's plenty of room for their free and uninhibited expression elsewhere in life. The people who 'make the rules' here apply judgment to what is and what isn't allowed. We're free to choose how we express ourselves relevant to that judgment and accept the consequences of that expression.

[Feelin Frisky]

I feel you are on to a critical distinction that every human being must learn to make if they are to have any chance at happiness. The way you said it however was a bit hard to read and I have issues with calling "discernment" being a matter of "good or bad". A similar analogy would be "assumption" versus "ascertainment". One--assumption or "judgement"--means arriving at a mind-closing conclusion that establishes a "perception". The other--"discernment" or "ascertainment" leaves the mind open while seeking and building reason for "judgement". Whether something is "good or bad" in these contexts is subjective and relative.

 

I would couch it this way, "judgmentalism" is a negative trait in which a person routinely draws conclusions without knowing all the facts. This leads them to have to be contentious and thus argumentative because it is natural to want to think that one's judgement is always sound and appropriate and there will be times when their rush to judgement puts them in the wrong. It is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT in relationships not to be judgemental about one's partner's feelings or perceptions. As a person of natural intensities I have to "work" on my feelings and reactions. It therefore takes me an extra moment or two to "decide" how to feel when something happens that can go one way (good) or the other (bad). I have to choose to be open-minded and "judge" my own "judgement" to be imperfect and therefore choose to extend the benefit of the doubt in the hopes that when I find out the truth there will have been no reason for hard feelings. I've learned to do this in a moment but some partners tend to reach their own conclusion and start getting contentious rather than give me the benefit of the doubt or simply ask me what I think or how I feel about something. This line is usually where relationships end for me. I find many women to have no such detachment from their own feelings and possessing a penchant for assuming the worst which then puts me in a defensive position. Being defensive when you weren't at fault for anything always sounds like you're being aggressive. I see this time and again and I think it's probably why women in my age group are not already in a good relationship. They always blame the man but don't face their own poor emotional development. I'm sure it works both ways--not to sound sexist. I can only convey my experience and I am a hetero male.

[ComingInHot]

Feeling Frisky: I had to smile that you clarified your being hetero. That never occurs to me for some reason. I guess I just assume "person"**

Okay, I tend to think I understand or can figure stuff out and I'm feeling a little like I missed the boat w/both you and CH. We may very well just have differing views but again (& I'm sorry) I don't know yet so allow me to try to understand.

I believe you are explaining that to ascertain leads to judgment. Is that right? Or was it ( I forget) the other that leads to judgment? (Feeling very humbled right now)

I obtained my definition between judgment &discernment via dictionary as I couldn't remember the word discerment... I then concluded that I am not to judge others but dscern between right &wrong or (biblically) good and evil. So I have since my husband's A, practiced discernment and it has opened doirs and built bridges pretty much wherever I go. It has been so productive in my healing of this whole thing.

I so hope I made better sense* your turn.

[carhill]

When one discerns 'right and wrong', that is a personalized and self-reflective process. It applies only to the person who is doing the discerning. It is within. When it moves to the exterior, projecting it upon another individual, who has their own unique process of discernment, it can be called a judgment.

 

Example, relevant to forum: 'I believe infidelity is wrong, therefore my opinion is that you are wrong for being unfaithful'.

 

Relevant to the terms of use and guidelines for interaction on this forum, that expression appears to be consistent with their spirit and intent.

 

How we express ourselves, relevant to our discernment of our own life path, as well as judgment of others regarding their life path, is as relevant to the communication as the gist of the expressions.

 

An example, again using the content of this forum:

 

'Infidelity is evil and you are an evil person'

 

This expression may be a completely accurate and relevant expression of discernment of right and wrong and judgment of another relevant to that discernment, but it violates the judgment of the PTB's that interaction is to be conducted in a civil and respectful manner. Firstly, as the person you judged is unknown to you, one disclosed aspect of their total human experience is insufficient for any modicum of accurate judgment; secondly, the PTB's judge such expressions to be uncivil and disrespectful, so disciplinary actions attend as consequences.

 

As your OP appeared to focus on comments and discussions on LoveShack, my responses are offered within that line of discussion.

[ComingInHot]

CH: O.k. bare with me for a minute. So I read you are saying that it is inevitable that we judge others through the act of discerment, is that right? I read that, "when you project that onto a person, we therefore judge. I would agree that if you determine that a person is evil based on some thing or decision then then yes that would be judgment.

What I try to do is discern the "thing/action"as good/bad, right wrong but NOT project that onto the person ie; my husband's OW, then I don't believe that she was bad or evil just a person living their life which is up to her to live and I believe she will be held accountable for all of her actions (as will I) both good and bad.

Is this easy with the gamat of human emotions? Heck no! Do I fail and fall short ? Yes. But in an affair, I feel that by letting go of my judgments and separating the action, it has helped me heal.

How did things go down for you?**

[BetrayedH]

In my line of thinking, I have come to believe that there are very few "bad" people (probably some Dictators, serial killers, and the like). But most people are a real mix and trying to determine if someone is a good or bad person is probably a fruitless undertaking. What I see are good or bad decisions/actions/behaviors, few of which will really on their own merit determine if a person is good or bad. I don't even like the terms good or bad. I tend to think more in terms of whether a decision/action/behavior is ethical. Sometimes there are other factors such as whether or not the decision was healthy or destructive.

 

In terms of the OPs question, I tend to try to discern whether the decisions are healthy and ethical rather than judging the person as good or bad. This is what I think makes atonement and forgiveness possible. An affair doesn't have to define the person (whether WS, OW, or BS). People can make mistakes (if you can forgive the term) and then make a lot of consecutive "right" decisions to atone for those mistakes and, in my mind, that makes a difference.

 

This allows me to advise other posters on ethical choices without really judging their history. Everyone has made good and bad choices. With the choices that are in front of you today, what do you choose to do now? Those that choose to do the "right" thing now are on the right path. For those that continue with unethical/unhealthy/destructive decisions/actions/behaviors, I have no problem pointing out why it is the "wrong" choice. In this way, I am not judging the person but discerning the correct vs incorrect choice. This tends to keep me out of trouble with moderators and even with myself (as I have made plenty of bad choices and would therefore be in a poor position to judge others).

 

I will say that at some point, I will go ahead and make a judgment. I found my wife guilty of violating our marital contract. She tried to say God should be her judge. Well, her agreement wasn't with God; it was with me. She just made a pretty big to-do about professing her agreement with me in front of God, the State of Florida, and a few hundred of our other best friends and closest family members before deciding to sh|t all over it. I am in a unique position to judge her and her actions in this case as I was deceptively kept to my end of the bargain while she disregarded hers.. I also have little patience for unrepentent serial cheaters and OPs who are quite aware of their behaviors being unethical/unhealthy/destructive and knowingly continuing with them anyway. Eventually, if they consistently and knowingly make the unethical choice, I will judge that person as a "bad person." I find that being very hesitant about going there is very healthy for me and then when I do go there, I'm probably pretty well on the money anyway.

[ComingInHot]

BetrayedH: THANK YOU!!! My point exactly! I guess you were more eloquent than I at getting this across. At least for me. I'm kind of waiting for return responses from the other posters because I feel I let them down because I don't quite get what they are saying yet.

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH: THANK YOU!!! My point exactly! I guess you were more eloquent than I at getting this across. At least for me. I'm kind of waiting for return responses from the other posters because I feel I let them down because I don't quite get what they are saying yet.

 

Oh hell, I'm just 18 months ahead of you and making this crap up as I go along. Don't let me get cocky.

 

A did like the concept that discerning is an internal process while judging is projecting that discernment outwards.

 

Eventually the semantics can get messy no matter what you do. For example, "discerning the truth" is a completely different concept than what you are discerning here (which is basically, right and wrong).