veronese Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 My husband has been seeing (at least) three other women secretly for many years. I had no idea and have been shocked by the discovery. He's admitted these 'friendships' did contain an element of sexual chemistry, flirtation, mutual admiration, suggestive conversations,etc. but is emphatic that these 10 years / two and a half years / and one year relationships did not progress further than hugs and kisses when greeting or departing. He insists that their relationships were more about conversation, attention, company. He says he didn't perceive them as a threat to us in any way as they weren't sexual, intense or passionate. Interestingly though, numbers two and three had no idea he was also enjoying the attentions of the others. Why? Because he said they'd think differently of him. Early on he even said that they would presume he was having sex with the others if they knew, but immediately backtracked on that one! I felt it my duty to enlighten them! One was a childhood sweetheart, attractive, single mother (10 years) Two was an encounter through work, attractive single mother (2.5 yrs) Three was last girlfriend before me (sexual) married second time, mother (1yr) They all knew he was 'happily' married and that he was only interested in a friendship. He phoned them during his working day only, maybe two or three times a week, and met them for lunchtime drinks (afternoons?) maybe every two or three weeks. This meant he probably saw at least one of them each week. I spoke to them and all three were forthcoming and adamant that they were 'just friends' with him. When I asked why the secrecy then, two of them said he knew I wouldn't understand and would react badly (as I was) if he told me. The ex married girlfriend was quite patronizing to me. She told me not to wreck my marriage over them, that what they had enjoyed was nothing serious and quite innocent. She even mentioned that she'd known him before me! Do the last 17 years with him not count then I wonder? My questions are and please please be honest any OW who read this 1. Do you think that these secretive friendships could truly continue for so long without becoming intimate? 2. If you have enjoyed an affair with a MM in the knowledge that you are always going to be the OW and he has no desire to wreck his marriage, how much do you admit to when the wife confronts you? 3. Do you admit to more than she has proof of? 4. Is 'we're just friends' the standard reply? 5. Am I a complete idiot to buy this line??? I have no idea about the world of the OW but I appreciate it comes with its own set of problems. I just need to hear the perspective of someone with experience of this. Please give me your honesty
StartingAgain Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 I'm not an OW, but rather a man who's wife cheated on him. So I'll give you my perspective on this and perhaps some insight based on my research into this phenomenon. My questions are and please please be honest any OW who read this 1. Do you think that these secretive friendships could truly continue for so long without becoming intimate? Yes, I know they can. I have women friends who have been friends for years and we've never had sex. I an only imagine that he kept them secret because of your current reaction. While I think it is inappropriate for a married person to have intimate friendships with someone of the opposiste sex, there's nothing wrong with them having close friendships. There is certainly nothing wrong with greeting a friend of either sex with a hug and kiss. When I say intimate friendship, I mean one in which the marital parter discusses the intimate details of his/her relationship with his/her spouse. This should never be done, since it crosses the boundry from friendship to emotional affair. 2. If you have enjoyed an affair with a MM in the knowledge that you are always going to be the OW and he has no desire to wreck his marriage, how much do you admit to when the wife confronts you? You admit nothing to the wife. The OW has no contact with the wife. It is her husband's responsibility to pass information on. 3. Do you admit to more than she has proof of? Same as question 2. 4. Is 'we're just friends' the standard reply? Yes, cheating spouses will always say that their OW/OM is just a friend. 5. Am I a complete idiot to buy this line??? No. Sometimes they are just friends and your suspicions are unfounded. I understand how your husband feels, though I think he was very, very wrong to conceal these friendships from you. My ex had a double standard in this regard. She dislikes women and has very few as friends (she says she can't stand their bitchy behavior). Most of her friends were men; some former lovers. Whenever she would greet them she'd give them a hug and a kiss and I had no problem with this. The one "dear old friend" she did have an affair with took advantage of the fact that we were having problems and manipulated her. She crossed the boundry with him and started discussing the intimate details of our marriage. This was very bad. I tried to warn her off, since I saw how this guy was working her to get her in the sack. But she wouldn't listen and it turned into an affair. However, she was very, very jealous of my female friends, and I had to carefully govern my behavior when around them, lest my wife thing I was having an affair. Essentially, except for lunch with a woman friend at work, I would never spend time with a woman friend unless my wife was present. But still she was jealous and resentful. I think that your husband's exgirlfriend was far from patronizing. I think she was giving you good advice. Had she been your husband's lover, her reaction to your contacting her would have been much different. I'm not saying that your husband cheated. He may have. But you need to carefully evaluate his behavior. Cheaters have some pretty typical behaviors. In any event, you are reacting exactly as was predicted. I think some marital thereapy is in order here. Don't you dare allow your unfounded suspicions to destroy a marriage marriage that has lasted so long. I see two primary issues that need to be addressed form your post: 1) why your husband felt the need to conceal these friendships and 2) your ego is getting in the way of thiking about this rationally. Remember, he *cooses* to be with you and has been for 17 years. Does that not speak volumes?
VivianLee Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 1. Do you think that these secretive friendships could truly continue for so long without becoming intimate? If he was feeling an attraction....I am more inclined to say "No"....(I'm sorry ) 2. If you have enjoyed an affair with a MM in the knowledge that you are always going to be the OW and he has no desire to wreck his marriage, how much do you admit to when the wife confronts you? The MM and I lied like dogs to the OW, when she found out (My husband knew more but didn't tell the OW when she called him also).....so she wouldn't leave him. I lied and lied so she wouldn't leave him and wouldn't be hurt even further....right or wrong, that's what I did. I said "just friends" probably over a hundred times! 3. Do you admit to more than she has proof of? I didn't!! 4. Is 'we're just friends' the standard reply? In my case it was the ONLY reply several times over! 5. Am I a complete idiot to buy this line??? There is nothing idiotic about trusting someone you love. You have done NOTHING wrong!! He is the idiot even if he hasn't slept with these women (it would be a miracle).....why in the world does he have this little "harem" of chicks "to be friends" with, hang out with and talk to, when he has you?? I'm sorry for your hurt!! I hope you can get to the bottom of this and know what to do!!
Author veronese Posted July 26, 2004 Author Posted July 26, 2004 Originally posted by StartingAgain Yes, I know they can. I have women friends who have been friends for years and we've never had sex. I an only imagine that he kept them secret because of your current reaction. While I think it is inappropriate for a married person to have intimate friendships with someone of the opposite sex, there's nothing wrong with them having close friendships. There is certainly nothing wrong with greeting a friend of either sex with a hug and kiss. When I say intimate friendship, I mean one in which the marital parter discusses the intimate details of his/her relationship with his/her spouse. This should never be done, since it crosses the boundary from friendship to emotional affair. I understand that there's nothing wrong with being friends with members of the opposite sex, but secretive, illicit, flirtatious friendships are dangerous I think that your husband's exgirlfriend was far from patronizing. I think she was giving you good advice. Had she been your husband's lover, her reaction to your contacting her would have been much different. Good advice? From a woman who was spending time with my husband behind my back? The secrecy was not about me having some sort of jealousy problem, their relationship was a secret because it was inappropriate. When we married I introduced him to my existing male friends and they became friends of ours. I had no reason not to be honest, and had no desire to spend time with them without my husband, why would I? If I'd preferred their company I would have married them! these women were never going to be my friends because their interest was only in my husband. I see two primary issues that need to be addressed form your post: 1) why your husband felt the need to conceal these friendships Because they were fun and he could get away with it (cake and eat it) 2) your ego is getting in the way of thinking about this rationally. Remember, he *chooses* to be with you and has been for 17 years. Does that not speak volumes? My ego is not getting in the way - his is! It was his fragile ego that needed to be boosted by other women. He chooses to be with me maybe because he does love me and wouldn't want to actually settle down with any of these sluts. We have children together. Divorces are distressing and expensive. I don't get any comfort knowing that he 'chose' not to leave in these last 17 years. He didn't really need to did he? He was having a fine old time with his harem!!! Sorry to be so brusque but I think maybe I didn't relate the story well enough for you to understand my situation Originally posted by VivianLee If he was feeling an attraction....I am more inclined to say "No"....(I'm sorry ) That's what I was thinking. Why wouldn't they have sex when they were spending so much time and energy on each other? He successfully hid these women from me for years, sex would be just one more thing He is the idiot even if he hasn't slept with these women (it would be a miracle) A miracle indeed!! .....why in the world does he have this little "harem" of chicks "to be friends" with, hang out with and talk to, when he has you?? Well, because it was fun to spend time with other women. He thought he wouldn't get found out. It was so easy and the opportunities were there. He loved the attention. He didn't experience much guilt. He did it, he said, because he could. Thanks so much for your honest answer, it was good to hear truth from someone who's been there. I hope more OW will post their opinions too. If he's slept with them I wish he would tell me. If I'm to forgive I feel I need to know what I'm forgiving. My gut feeling is that he did sleep with them. I can't imagine it but given all the facts it's hard to believe that they restrained themselves. Because I'm having trouble believing it I'm having problems moving on. The niggle that he's riding this one out, knowing that it will be hard for me to prove otherwise. It's a problem because if he's telling the truth my doubt could result in the '"well she thinks I did so I may as well" scenario! It's a problem because if he's lying (therefore realizing my doubts), the lie will always be there because he'll know the truth. It won't be healthy for him nor us. What he has admitted to has been serious enough to end our marriage without any sex having happened, but if sex was a factor it's necessary to deal with the fact. btw, our sex life has been wonderful, apart from those predictable fallow periods post babies/during sickness etc. But I've noticed from these boards that despite what the MM tells the OW, he IS making love to his wife regularly. I naively believed that if you didn't give men a reason to stray, then they wouldn't.......HA! I'm sorry for your hurt!! I hope you can get to the bottom of this and know what to do!! Thanks Vivian
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