veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Practical Advice to the Other Woman | Hey Little Mother I'm starting to wonder if the reason my H hasn't cheated on me - as far as I'm aware - is that I'm not a perfect wife. It looks to me that it's a requirement for a husband to cheat that the love story was out of his world, the marriage blisful and fullfiling, parenting was amazing starting at conceiving, and all obstacles and issues were resolved in a loving, adult manner.
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 Oh no, it's in the right section. I have a hard time dealing with my stuff as a (freshly former) OW, and this triggered me. There are some nice BSs here who try to be unbiased and not apply the same pattern to all replies, but to the rest of them stepping here...yes, it is for them.
AnotherRound Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Well, the blog writer is obviously angry and is still very raw. I've said it before, she is convincing herself that her H's A was nothing more than sex bc that is what she needs to believe right now. I won't deny her or spite her the defense mechanisms she needs. I did find it interesting that a MM who had an A responded, and stated that his reason for being in his A was the openness that was available there, the emotional intimacy. I have to agree with that. Not that I blame someone who is unable or unwilling to be open with their emotional intimacy, as they can find someone similar and live very happily together. But it sure is a tough road if someone like that is with someone that needs/wants/craves that type of openness in their relationships. It would be like me trying to form a lasting relationship with someone who does not like to talk... not their fault, and not wrong, but it would NOT work for me bc talking is SO important for me in relationships. This blog writer is obviously hurt, and understandably. She will work through this at her own pace. Right now she has to believe that her husband wanted nothing more than sex bc otherwise, it hurts her too much. It's interesting to me that many BWs cling to this for so long, but again, I am willing to let them heal at their own pace, I won't interfere with that. But eventually, hopefully she will realize that her husband was missing MUCH more than sex, and she will address that in her marriage (as she mentions that they are attempting to reconcile). And, the fact that she includes that an OW cannot compete with all the years, and children and such. Interesting, considering that I hear many people saying that in a reconciliation the WS is simply choosing the spouse "over" the AP... yet, she says exactly the opposite. That there are many factors that are influencing her WH to stay in the marriage, that it truly is NOT a simple choice of who the spouse loves "more" or "better". That her WH is considering many things, including his children, their families, their memories, etc. I do find it sad for her, bc she's in for even more hurt when she realizes that (if it is the case) the A was not just sex, as she would like to believe. It's going to crush her in ways she isn't ready for bc she isn't accepting the reality of her situation, imo. And I take no pleasure in that, for anyone, but unfortunately, refusing to accept reality, painful as it may be, ends up hurting someone even more in the end, imo. Not sure how you found this CD, but it was an interesting read. I just don't like the title as I feel like you are jabbing a little at the BWs that come here. I understand WHY you would want to do that as some of them have no problem dishing it out, but I am still trying to be nice to them and not hurt their feelings bc I do understand WHY they are so angry (even if I'm not the true target that they should be focusing on, I completely empathize with why they may see me that way here).
AnotherRound Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 I enjoyed reading this, and I'm a potential OW. It probably won't happen though. My advice to you is to NOT become the OW, even though you would probably take away valuable life lessons from it. I won't do it again, it was too hard to disentangle from, too messy for my liking. But I know that you are going to have to figure it out and learn it on your own, that's just the nature of humanity. And I can understand that, completely. Just offering you what I have learned from it in hopes you will consider it when making future decisions.
LadyGrey Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 There are always these jabs back and forth between bs's and ow's. BS's saying he didn't care about you, it was just sex. OW's defending that he did with tooth and nail. Granted the blog post had some points about the history of a couple and yes sometimes men do use the ow just for sex and ego strokes but also sometimes there is a real caring competent to mm's feelings regarding the ow. But.........at the end of the day, assuming an ow wants the mm to leave the marriage and be with her and he stays with his wife, all that noise really doesn't matter much and when one gets far enough removed from it, either ow or bs it should matter less and less. I know there was a time, when it seems very important to me to cling to the notion that xmm really did care about me...........but now, I really don't give a fig if he did or not. The more important thing is I don't give a fig about him. 1
AnotherRound Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 There are always these jabs back and forth between bs's and ow's. BS's saying he didn't care about you, it was just sex. OW's defending that he did with tooth and nail. Granted the blog post had some points about the history of a couple and yes sometimes men do use the ow just for sex and ego strokes but also sometimes there is a real caring competent to mm's feelings regarding the ow. But.........at the end of the day, assuming an ow wants the mm to leave the marriage and be with her and he stays with his wife, all that noise really doesn't matter much and when one gets far enough removed from it, either ow or bs it should matter less and less. I know there was a time, when it seems very important to me to cling to the notion that xmm really did care about me...........but now, I really don't give a fig if he did or not. The more important thing is I don't give a fig about him. Agreed. I don't need to think he cared about me, I just believe it. Even if he didn't, it wouldn't matter, bc it has been over for some time. Well, I guess it would matter in deciding to be with him again or not. But in the grand scheme of it all, I still learned a lot about myself and love and relationships in the process. I guess my issue is someone that says that nobody can know what another person feels, and then turns around and says that they KNOW what another person feels... lol. I thought it was an interesting read. Just thought that the writer was in the very early stages of her grief re the entire thing and that she has a long way to go in healing. Nothing more, nothing less.
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 I'm in acute pain, and this is a place where I can overspill. I didn't go to the infidelity forum to rub it in their face, and it's their problem if the very righteous ones come over here. It's very "enter at your own risk" for me. Just a bs whines nobody can get the pain, well, they can't get my pain, and regardless of how deserved and anticipated it was, it still hurts and i can't just fast forward through it, or else I would. One of the BW out there has their hubby back. I had to be so correct for so long, so attentive to my bias when talking to him about her, so...I'm done. At least here I want to be biased. And right now, I don't care anymore about her wellbeing. I felt responsible for dragging her into the situation without knowing. I'm out. They can reconcile, rekindle, rebuild. I had a hard time seeing the day where I'd be fine not seeing him ever. Right now I'd prefer it that way. Stuff like the stuff i linked to and that's all over is what i know she'd say about me if she found out, and I know my truth. I'm definitely planning and looking forward to the day it won't matter, but for now it does.
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Practical Advice to the Other Woman | Hey Little Mother I'm starting to wonder if the reason my H hasn't cheated on me - as far as I'm aware - is that I'm not a perfect wife. It looks to me that it's a requirement for a husband to cheat that the love story was out of his world, the marriage blisful and fullfiling, parenting was amazing starting at conceiving, and all obstacles and issues were resolved in a loving, adult manner. I don't think this blog portrays a perfect wife, or perfect situation at home. It portrays a lot of reality--that the couple has a long history together, children and memories together, friends and relatives together, which IS very hard to compete with for the OW. The blog also makes a good point that I have read in research articles I've come across on marriages--that of the people that report their marriage as struggling, if they choose to stick it out and stay together, they report being happier together five years later, demonstrating that many troubles that a couple face are temporary and can be overcome if the couple waits it out. This is assuming there is no infidelity involved. 2
AnotherRound Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 I'm in acute pain, and this is a place where I can overspill. I didn't go to the infidelity forum to rub it in their face, and it's their problem if the very righteous ones come over here. It's very "enter at your own risk" for me. Just a bs whines nobody can get the pain, well, they can't get my pain, and regardless of how deserved and anticipated it was, it still hurts and i can't just fast forward through it, or else I would. One of the BW out there has their hubby back. I had to be so correct for so long, so attentive to my bias when talking to him about her, so...I'm done. At least here I want to be biased. And right now, I don't care anymore about her wellbeing. I felt responsible for dragging her into the situation without knowing. I'm out. They can reconcile, rekindle, rebuild. I had a hard time seeing the day where I'd be fine not seeing him ever. Right now I'd prefer it that way. Stuff like the stuff i linked to and that's all over is what i know she'd say about me if she found out, and I know my truth. I'm definitely planning and looking forward to the day it won't matter, but for now it does. I get that, and your pain is just as valid. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Anything we feel is valid simply bc we feel it. For me, I take no pleasure in hurting another. It does not ease my pain at all. Maybe for a split second I feel powerful, that I have the power to do that, but it is so fleeting, and immediately after, I feel badly for hurting someone else. I have been attacked on here frequently. I have held my tongue, other than attempting to set some boundaries with a few extremely passive aggressive posters. I know that I have the power to say some things that will hurt them, devastate them even, add to their already tremendous pain... but I refrain. Not because I'm afraid, not because I'm better, just bc at the end of the day, when I lay my head down to sleep, I want to be able to do so with ease and still liking myself. I know that they attack on here. And yes, they probably do "deserve" to get handed back to them what they dish. But, they are in pain too, and their pain is very real. And in a lot of cases I've seen on here, very unhealthy and dangerous even in that they are NOT handling life well at all. Do you want to add to that? Even if they are the rudest, most naive, hateful people... do you want to add to that? As OWs, we have been told often that we are heartless, cruel, subhuman. I know that I am not, and I will not let them force me to act as if I am any of those things. They will bait us, they will try to prove that "mean girls" are what we are, that we don't care about anyone but ourselves. But, I won't fall for it, bc I'm better than that, and I KNOW what type of ripples I want to put into the world. I can be just as catty as any other woman can me, most of us have that ability. That's nothing, it's not impressive... we can all do it pretty well. What's impressive to me is when we have that ability, and we do NOT use it. Especially against someone who is weak, and in a very bad place. Your pain is real, valid, and deserves to be respected. Absolutely. But, in this world, there will people who don't respect that. You can stoop to their level, or you can rise above it. There are people here who understand your pain and validate it. Focus on that. I know it's hard when some follow the OW threads with a microscope, but it's possible. You can assert boundaries without hurting someone's feelings. I think you will feel much better about yourself at the end of the day if you don't go where they are trying to lead you.
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 And if there is fidelity involved?.. I'm assuming you mean if there is infidelity involved. Infidelity is probably the most difficult thing for a marriage to overcome. It destroys the foundation of a marriage, which is trust. Very difficult for a marriage to recover from such a thing. Infidelity is the cause for many, if not most divorces. Infidelity is a dysfunctional and destructive way of coping with problems in a marriage. 1
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 AR, the problem with some people is that if you don't react to them, they take you as a pushover. I'm usually very "let's all be friends and get along", but when I fight, I fight. This thread was the equivalent of me histerically bursting into tears. I don't care for it to continue into a war with BWs. I'm in a volatile place, and only time can help. Tara, he's been married for more than a decade. In your case, I don't know what to suggest anymore. If it's a question of sex, get it over with and move on to the next guy. I don't think you want this man as a partner, or playing just friends with you. He's just too...ewww. Being in an A is hard to explain, so I understand where you are. I remember reading before getting into it how everyone said they didn't regret it, but they recommended avoiding it at all costs. I feel the same way. I want to hope that I'll never, ever get myself involved in one ever again. With some things, it won't be enough that I say "hey that pretty head will hurt if you hit it against the wall". You'll know exactly how it hurts once you hit your head.
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 I'm assuming you mean if there is infidelity involved. Infidelity is probably the most difficult thing for a marriage to overcome. It destroys the foundation of a marriage, which is trust. Very difficult for a marriage to recover from such a thing. Infidelity is the cause for many, if not most divorces. Infidelity is a dysfunctional and destructive way of coping with problems in a marriage. Do you have any statistics? The ones I've read said only around 20% of divorces were caused by infidelity.
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Do you have any statistics? The ones I've read said only around 20% of divorces were caused by infidelity. According to Wikipedia, 90% of all first time divorces had infidelity involved. More than 60% of divorces were considered to be caused from infidelity. Infidelity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 Ok, explain it to me, cutedragon. Seriously. How would trying to take this man away from his wife of less than a year cause pain? Pain to whom? To you, silly. Pain to you. Can't you see my outburst here?
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 According to Wikipedia, 90% of all first time divorces had infidelity involved. More than 60% of divorces were considered to be caused from infidelity. Infidelity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Involvement and causation are two different things. Here's a quote from that very page: By contrast, John Gottman with his 35 years of research into marriage, is reported as saying, "Only 20 percent of divorces are caused by an affair. Most marriages die with a whimper, as people turn away from one another, slowly growing apart." Even if infidelity was involved in the marriage, it doesn't mean that it caused the divorce once they got there. It also goes with the common knowledge here that married people do not leave their marriages after infidelity.
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 I know that, cutedragon. Lol. Pain how though? Are you saying I will get my heart broken and he won't leave his wife for me? Okay..let's see: - pain for not seeing him enough time; there's never enough time - pain of parting each time when both say "I don't want to go" - pain of waiting, to see him, to get an email, to anything; the waiting was one of the first things to get to me - pain of imagining him living his official life in vidid colors and details - pain of imagining a future together, and realizing how hard it would be for that to happen - pain to feel second - pain to feel not good enough, even if you know that you are; this type of thing has some very ugly mental side effects - pain to see him going back and forth debating what to do and what to choose - pain to see him avoding taking action (this is so common, it's not funny); these men would not do something if the sky fell - pain to realize you are indeed second when put in balance to the cat, the tools in the garage and the drywall inside the house. - finally, pain to have your heart broken. I might continue later, but ti should be enough pain for now. lol
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Involvement and causation are two different things. Here's a quote from that very page: By contrast, John Gottman with his 35 years of research into marriage, is reported as saying, "Only 20 percent of divorces are caused by an affair. Most marriages die with a whimper, as people turn away from one another, slowly growing apart." Even if infidelity was involved in the marriage, it doesn't mean that it caused the divorce once they got there. It also goes with the common knowledge here that married people do not leave their marriages after infidelity. The article mentions several studies. It also mentions these studies: Some authorities (for example, Frank Pittman in 'Grow Up' (Golden Guides)) observe infidelity is involved in 90% of first time divorces. A 1997 study with Kristina Gordon found "more than half of the marriages that experience infidelity ended in divorce". 1
Author veryhappy Posted September 16, 2012 Author Posted September 16, 2012 I don't argue with that, I'm just pointing out that involvement and causation are two very different things. Tara, stick with the 20%. The least you need is hope that once you have sex with the guy he'll get divorced
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 I don't argue with that, I'm just pointing out that involvement and causation are two very different things. Tara, stick with the 20%. The least you need is hope that once you have sex with the guy he'll get divorced Here's another article that specifies studies showing 50% of all divorces are caused by infidelity. Divorce statistics - Typical Divorce Do you ladies really want to be the cause of a break up in a marriage/family? Life is too short to waste it on a man who doesn't deserve your attention. Save it for someone who is worthy. Anyone who would cheat on his wife is not worth your time.
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 I don't argue with that, I'm just pointing out that involvement and causation are two very different things. Tara, stick with the 20%. The least you need is hope that once you have sex with the guy he'll get divorced I just posted a link to a study showing 50% of all divorces are caused by infidelity, but the moderators are reviewing it before they will let it post. It's not worth it to get involved in someone else's marriage, and be the cause of a marriage/family breaking up. I've seen first hand the damage that an affair can do to a wife, a family, and to an AP. My older sister and two of my good friends went down that road and became an OW, and they regretted it very much. Something they wish they could undo.
Saba Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Well, the blog writer is obviously angry and is still very raw. I've said it before, she is convincing herself that her H's A was nothing more than sex bc that is what she needs to believe right now. I won't deny her or spite her the defense mechanisms she needs. ......Right now she has to believe that her husband wanted nothing more than sex bc otherwise, it hurts her too much. It's interesting to me that many BWs cling to this for so long, but again, I am willing to let them heal at their own pace, I won't interfere with that. But eventually, hopefully she will realize that her husband was missing MUCH more than sex, and she will address that in her marriage (as she mentions that they are attempting to reconcile). ....I do find it sad for her, bc she's in for even more hurt when she realizes that (if it is the case) the A was not just sex, as she would like to believe. It's going to crush her in ways she isn't ready for bc she isn't accepting the reality of her situation, imo. And I take no pleasure in that, for anyone, but unfortunately, refusing to accept reality, painful as it may be, ends up hurting someone even more in the end, imo. I have to admit that I could not be bothered to read the article (after I read the first response to the article) however, I feel compelled to comment that not all affairs are the same. It is possible that it was a sexual affair. Just because your affair was emotional does not mean that all affairs will be. All relationships are not the same.
KathyM Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Kathy, this isn't a family. They have no children together, and no property together-as of yet. This is his 4th marriage, at least her second. He tried to get over my house twice when they were engaged. One time when he helped me move, he said this marriage to her might not happen. After it did happen, three months later, he was trying to have sex with me. Well, what an ass he is. Why would you even want to spend time with him or consider having sex with him? So many worthwhile men out there, why waste your time and attention on a loser? Married four times and cheating on his wife? Eww. Sooo not worth your time. Life is too short to waste it on losers. 3
woinlove Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Well, the blog writer is obviously angry and is still very raw. I've said it before, she is convincing herself that her H's A was nothing more than sex bc that is what she needs to believe right now. I won't deny her or spite her the defense mechanisms she needs. I did find it interesting that a MM who had an A responded, and stated that his reason for being in his A was the openness that was available there, the emotional intimacy. I have to agree with that. Not that I blame someone who is unable or unwilling to be open with their emotional intimacy, as they can find someone similar and live very happily together. But it sure is a tough road if someone like that is with someone that needs/wants/craves that type of openness in their relationships. It would be like me trying to form a lasting relationship with someone who does not like to talk... not their fault, and not wrong, but it would NOT work for me bc talking is SO important for me in relationships. This blog writer is obviously hurt, and understandably. She will work through this at her own pace. Right now she has to believe that her husband wanted nothing more than sex bc otherwise, it hurts her too much. It's interesting to me that many BWs cling to this for so long, but again, I am willing to let them heal at their own pace, I won't interfere with that. But eventually, hopefully she will realize that her husband was missing MUCH more than sex, and she will address that in her marriage (as she mentions that they are attempting to reconcile). And, the fact that she includes that an OW cannot compete with all the years, and children and such. Interesting, considering that I hear many people saying that in a reconciliation the WS is simply choosing the spouse "over" the AP... yet, she says exactly the opposite. That there are many factors that are influencing her WH to stay in the marriage, that it truly is NOT a simple choice of who the spouse loves "more" or "better". That her WH is considering many things, including his children, their families, their memories, etc. I do find it sad for her, bc she's in for even more hurt when she realizes that (if it is the case) the A was not just sex, as she would like to believe. It's going to crush her in ways she isn't ready for bc she isn't accepting the reality of her situation, imo. And I take no pleasure in that, for anyone, but unfortunately, refusing to accept reality, painful as it may be, ends up hurting someone even more in the end, imo. Not sure how you found this CD, but it was an interesting read. I just don't like the title as I feel like you are jabbing a little at the BWs that come here. I understand WHY you would want to do that as some of them have no problem dishing it out, but I am still trying to be nice to them and not hurt their feelings bc I do understand WHY they are so angry (even if I'm not the true target that they should be focusing on, I completely empathize with why they may see me that way here). I agree the blog writer is hurting and dealing with the immediate aftermath of her H's affair - in that, the writings may be more appropriate for BW than for OW, but anyone might be interested in understanding the BW pain better and the steps one goes through to process that. However, her own WH's affair might very well have been about sex. That is certainly the case for some affairs. I also agree that the wayward husband who posted on her blog, saying his own A was for emotional closeness and not sex was interesting. His comments link to his own blog where he explained why he chose to stay with his W, which is also an interesting read as it is him as a former MM speaking directly to OW as a MM who was not just looking for sex and felt he loved the OW: Why Cheaters Go Back to Their Wives « And you may ask yourself… well, how did I get here? And I agree the title of this thread seems like a jab at BW and maybe is a sign of cutedragon's own pain. Edited September 16, 2012 by woinlove
Ladydrib Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Okay..let's see: - pain for not seeing him enough time; there's never enough time - pain of parting each time when both say "I don't want to go" - pain of waiting, to see him, to get an email, to anything; the waiting was one of the first things to get to me - pain of imagining him living his official life in vidid colors and details - pain of imagining a future together, and realizing how hard it would be for that to happen - pain to feel second - pain to feel not good enough, even if you know that you are; this type of thing has some very ugly mental side effects - pain to see him going back and forth debating what to do and what to choose - pain to see him avoding taking action (this is so common, it's not funny); these men would not do something if the sky fell - pain to realize you are indeed second when put in balance to the cat, the tools in the garage and the drywall inside the house. - finally, pain to have your heart broken. I might continue later, but ti should be enough pain for now. lol Great list. I'll add a couple. Pain of wanting out because it all hurts so bad but every time you make the jump, when he simply let's you go, your stomach feels sick, heart hurts, soul feels empty, so much pain from that, that it sends you running back (on his terms-see the pain list above). You bounce back and forth between these two terrible pains hoping desperately for a way out that is not torture. But gues what? At this point the only way out is to suffer worse than the pain of staying. But you have to be strong enough to take it for the benefit of your mental health and your future. Pain from your lost innocence. You become very distrustful and start to feel that you can't trust anyone. Pain from the anger you feel at yourself for allowing yourself to be used in this way. Pain in the damage it causes to all aspects of your life. As you are coping with the list of pain (in the post above) your career is likely suffering, and probably your personal relationships outside of him.
Ladydrib Posted September 16, 2012 Posted September 16, 2012 Kathy, this isn't a family. They have no children together, and no property together-as of yet. This is his 4th marriage, at least her second. He tried to get over my house twice when they were engaged. One time when he helped me move, he said this marriage to her might not happen. After it did happen, three months later, he was trying to have sex with me. He sounds like a total loser. Why would you even want to talk to him? The only thing that made me look past the cheat part of my MM was that he stayed in an unhappy marriage because of commitment and a family lifestyle he did not want to change. I saw it as though he had been trapped by sense of obligation, starving for emotional connection for many years and finally broke. I also thought that this would be the turning point. Sometimes it's wrong to stay. So I was okay with this affair temporarily for him to find a resolution now that the reality of his marriage was brought to the surface (either fix his marriage and end it with me or end his marriage). That was his decision to make and as he continued to let it go on and on without doing either, I slowly saw he was not trapped. He was just trying to have it all. Anyway, it sounds like you know up front this guy has not committed and tried to make his marriage work. Several clues here. 1. His marriage has not been going on for years. 2. He was courting you right from the beginning of his marriage. 3. He has been married 4 times. This is not a man who tried everything he could to be honorable and find happiness in his marriage. This is a man who wants to do whatever he wants with no regard for anyone but himself. Yuck! What do you see in this man? Run! Run fast!
Recommended Posts