Sanity. Is it real, relative, attainable?

[ComingInHot]

So, I just started posting here to get clarification, understanding, support, answers, and maybe confirmation that I am Not out of my mind. It is harder than I thought because I don't want to explain the embarrassing sordid details of how D-day occurred let alone the awful crap that continued without coming off as angry/bitter at FWH or OW. I don't think I am until I read other posts (example; meeting FOW in public) that the initial thoughts and feelings I have are not nice. Does this make me a hypocrite, angrier than I thought, maybe multiple personality disorder*? I take a moment to frisk the emotion then come up with an appropriate response/behavior but still it did happen. If I was caught off guard in a situation ONLY concerning FOW I am afraid that I could do/say something that would bring heat and no light. Normally I am extremely rational and Very good in a crisis situation but when it comes to this affair thing, however past, I seriously sometimes question my own sanity. help?

[Betrayed&Stayed]

So, I just started posting here to get clarification, understanding, support, answers, and maybe confirmation that I am Not out of my mind. It is harder than I thought because I don't want to explain the embarrassing sordid details of how D-day occurred let alone the awful crap that continued without coming off as angry/bitter at FWH or OW. I don't think I am until I read other posts (example; meeting FOW in public) that the initial thoughts and feelings I have are not nice. Does this make me a hypocrite, angrier than I thought, maybe multiple personality disorder*? I take a moment to frisk the emotion then come up with an appropriate response/behavior but still it did happen. If I was caught off guard in a situation ONLY concerning FOW I am afraid that I could do/say something that would bring heat and no light. Normally I am extremely rational and Very good in a crisis situation but when it comes to this affair thing, however past, I seriously sometimes question my own sanity. help?

 

It is normal to ask "Is this normal?" when dealing with the aftermath of D-day. My thoughts and emotions were all over the place, and changed erratically.

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed&Stayed: Thank You! I did write that I am mostly rational however with regards the whole affair thing, I did ONCE "go off the reservation" ** ( I'm smiling as I write this and I've never mentioned it to anyone other than my best girlfriend) BUT about four months after D-day, the move to our new home in new state, and after another unpleasant yet colorful email from OW, AND not getting the response/support from FWH( don't you all love my rationaliztions here...*) there was a laptop incident. Does anyone here know that a laptop doesn't fly? But it can stay air born longer than I ever thought... Anyway, as funny as it is to me now, it also shows that I really can lose it. Kind of ugly at the same time, no?

[BetrayedH]

I sure wish I had just thrown a laptop. I've seen at least one thread where the BSs told of the crazy things they did after Dday. Yours wouldn't get an honorable mention. You're normal. But keep focused on keeping your own integrity (and stay out of jail).

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed H: Yikes! As much as I am sorry for (I assume it was your short stay at the B & B house of stripes), did it feeeel good to just go off the Res like that? Because honestly, it felt GOOOOD to launch his laptop across the room* But yes, I try to always remember that what I have in all this IS my integrity and I want to keep that intact (minus the laptop thing).

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed H: Yikes! As much as I am sorry for (I assume it was your short stay at the B & B house of stripes), did it feeeel good to just go off the Res like that? Because honestly, it felt GOOOOD to launch his laptop across the room* But yes, I try to always remember that what I have in all this IS my integrity and I want to keep that intact (minus the laptop thing).

 

I think I've told the story one time too many. Short version is that I threw my wife out the front door in a drunken rage after finding some truly disturbing crap. 15 hours in an orange jumpsuit and they don't let you wear underwear in that thing. Then I had no contact orders with my wife (which is somewhat inconvenient since she lived in our house with our kids) for a few months. Took me nearly six months to finally get dismissed. Besides the drama associated with seeing my kids, the worst part was the she was officially the "victim" for 6 months (which, if you knew our story, is really quite comical).

 

Hard to say it felt great. Oh, well, one part did. Before I threw her out, I dragged our somewhat offensive 3-pc sectional sofa one piece at a time into the backyard and set it ablaze. It was a nice fire. The black spot is still here, nearly 10 months later. Nobody would be f*cking on that couch again.

[GLDheart]

...Before I threw her out, I dragged our somewhat offensive 3-pc sectional sofa one piece at a time into the backyard and set it ablaze. It was a nice fire. The black spot is still here, nearly 10 months later. Nobody would be f*cking on that couch again.

 

Sweet Therapy. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE that you did that.

[2.50 a gallon]

I do admit to being a revenge seeker, but am the type, who takes his time to plot, let some time past, to wait for the right moment.

 

The anger on my m-moment on D-day was red hot, something I don't think I had ever experienced before. Had there not been a chain link fence between, I would have done some serious damage and probably still be in the system. I was out of my head with reptilian part of my brain rage. I no longer cared about anything, only to hurt the two of them

 

Once I cooled down it scared me so bad, that I swore I would never put myself in that position again

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed H & ².Five(for some reason My key pad won't do numbers! Although I am feeling a little less like an angered crazed lunatic, I can't help admiring you both for showing the perpetrators exactly how you felt... But isn't it true how afterwords, we think HOLY CRAP I can't believe that was in me. That really frightened me. It proved once again that humans might not be able to "control" how we FEEL but we can and should be able to "control" whether or not we ACT on those feelings (including but not limiting to entering an affair as both parties)! Ugh. Now if I can get part the "insane" night I had just LAST NIGHT!!!

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed H & ².Five(for some reason My key pad won't do numbers! Although I am feeling a little less like an angered crazed lunatic, I can't help admiring you both for showing the perpetrators exactly how you felt... But isn't it true how afterwords, we think HOLY CRAP I can't believe that was in me. That really frightened me. It proved once again that humans might not be able to "control" how we FEEL but we can and should be able to "control" whether or not we ACT on those feelings (including but not limiting to entering an affair as both parties)! Ugh. Now if I can get part the "insane" night I had just LAST NIGHT!!!

 

Agreed. Prior to this, I was a complete non-violent pacifist. Big John Lennon fan. Love the Ghandi approach. Huge hater of abusers. Don't even spank my kids with the rare exception when they intentionally hurt someone. I couldn't believe it happened as I never thought I was capable of that level of rage. I had even met with the OM after the affair for a Q&A and it was completely non-threatening (at least in a physical way).

 

Even still, my wife just ended up with scrapes on he hands and knees when she fell being pushed out the front door. I hadn't meant to hurt her at all - just to make her leave. Of course, that didn't matter. I never did get cited for burning the couch; I think it was actually a legal burn at the time.

 

Hope last night wasn't too dramatic.

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed H: Thanks. I'll survive but it is nights like last night when husband's narcassistic, anger management issues erupt onto my kids and then (inevitably) onto me. I guess he has always been like this (hearing said by family & friends) but it is still hard. One of the things that make me question all of our progress and my efforts with all of this... He is SOOO good at manipulating everything, when he wants, to make it anyone else's fault (mostly mine) but his own. Again, he has done all he is supposed to do post affair with the exception of counceling. I pretty much KNOW it is because he'd be faced with the fact that HE has issues meaning HE'D have to change. Ugh

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed H: Thanks. I'll survive but it is nights like last night when husband's narcassistic, anger management issues erupt onto my kids and then (inevitably) onto me. I guess he has always been like this (hearing said by family & friends) but it is still hard. One of the things that make me question all of our progress and my efforts with all of this... He is SOOO good at manipulating everything, when he wants, to make it anyone else's fault (mostly mine) but his own. Again, he has done all he is supposed to do post affair with the exception of counceling. I pretty much KNOW it is because he'd be faced with the fact that HE has issues meaning HE'D have to change. Ugh

 

Wish I had more time to reply - busy day - but I tell you, I think his refusal to go to counseling is the next place to focus. Do me a favor and read the thread by Reg further down in the Infidelity forum. Lots of discussion there about the "why" behind the choice to have an affair. If he doesn't truly know why he made such a destructive choice, how can either of you feel confident that it can br avoided in the future? The root causes usually go back to your FOO (Family of Origin)/childhood - either an overdeveloped sense of entitlement or an excessive need for external validation (or something else). When you add this on top of his anger/narcissistic ways, he's an ideal candidate for individual counseling (IC). That should come before marriage counseling (MC) so you can safely discuss the affair and the marriage going forward. These are pretty routine steps and shouldn't be avoided.

[Steadfast]

It's been over four years, but I still remember my hatred of her phone.

 

It was just a stupid phone and even then I knew it. But still...that device was her pipeline. Making things worse was just three-weeks before she confessed, she threw a major fit in the store when I told her we couldn't afford it. We were both due for upgrades but that one (the most expensive one they had btw) wasn't covered. My cell had a cracked screen and was beat but giving in again I went outside, found her fuming in the car and asked her back inside. I bought it and kept her old one. She was beaming. I was once again the giving, subjecting fool. It was a long pattern.

 

Many times during the six-weeks of limbo she subjected us to I was tempted to fling it. Always hidden when she slept. I mean, she put some real thought into it. She would wait until I left the room so she could retrieve it from its hiding spot. She seemingly called and texted everyone in the world but me. I was cut out. Fed up, I called to cancel her line only to discover she'd already done that. Opened her own account. Evil phone...

 

Two great conversations with book author Michelle Langley put me on the path of discovery. In our last two-weeks together I completely stopped caring. Didn't care where she was. Didn't try to call or text. Didn't ask, didn't do, didn't follow and didn't talk about us. One night, while I was putting away leftovers, my by-then-very-confused-ex-to-be went outside to smoke and left her phone on the counter. I saw it, but didn't touch it. Wasn't tempted. Emotionally, I was catching up quick and while there was plenty of work left to do on me and my broken heart, I was beginning to realize it was work I'd do alone. She was not an answer...she wasn't even part of the question any longer. Her actions told me all I needed to know.

 

Startled, she bolted into the kitchen and spotting her phone, grabbed it and looked it over. I pretended not to notice but she stood there, staring at me in disbelief. I wiped my hands, smiled at her and left to run some errands. The unspoken message was: "I don't care what's in there."

 

From that point on, I had regained control of me. A very messed up, grieving, confused and depressed me, but all of it was mine. Not ours.

[ComingInHot]

Steadfast: Now YOU are amazing. What self control!!! I can only imagine how much drama you avoided by just realizing that what you needed was not in that phone but w/in you! It sounds like by the time you were where you were, Nothing she was hiding would make a lick of difference. I'm not saying that there was No drama but you did SO good! Way better than me! How would you say you are doing these days? Do you realize you are not/were not the crazy? Or are there moments you question?

[Steadfast]

How would you say you are doing these days? Do you realize you are not/were not the crazy? Or are there moments you question?

 

I'm fine, but there's no getting past the disappointment of throwing away a 17-year marriage or breaking up a family. I'll never be happy about that.

 

She told me once that my reaction to her affair(s) supported her decision to have them and caused her to feel even less attracted to me. The classic lose-lose. I was trying everything to save us, which often made me look needy and dependent. I certainly didn't feel like a 'man's man'; the kind of man (I hear) every woman wants. But it wasn't just me I was worried about. I knew what the future held for all of us, including our kids. It wrecked me. It wrecked us. It was the final straw that caused everything to come tumbling down. Complete financial and emotional ruin.

 

Looking back now, I understand I was powerless against both my reaction and the sweeping mood changes that came with them. She was using the cheater's handbook and following it step-by-step. Chapter Two: Pull the rug out from under someone, then justify the action by pointing out their wildly erratic behavior. Only those who have been there know the feeling, which causes you to doubt everything you thought you knew.

 

Affairs and betrayal bring out the worst in people, and I was no exception. To regain my sanity I needed to cut the cord. And that's really painful when you love someone and care about them. But what other choice is there? It's a well used line now, but what doesn't kill us truly does make us stronger.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Steadfast

[BetrayedH]

I'm fine, but there's no getting past the disappointment of throwing away a 17-year marriage or breaking up a family. I'll never be happy about that.

 

She told me once that my reaction to her affair(s) supported her decision to have them and caused her to feel even less attracted to me. The classic lose-lose. I was trying everything to save us, which often made me look needy and dependent. I certainly didn't feel like a 'man's man'; the kind of man (I hear) every woman wants. But it wasn't just me I was worried about. I knew what the future held for all of us, including our kids. It wrecked me. It wrecked us. It was the final straw that caused everything to come tumbling down. Complete financial and emotional ruin.

 

Looking back now, I understand I was powerless against both my reaction and the sweeping mood changes that came with them. She was using the cheater's handbook and following it step-by-step. Chapter Two: Pull the rug out from under someone, then justify the action by pointing out their wildly erratic behavior. Only those who have been there know the feeling, which causes you to doubt everything you thought you knew.

 

Affairs and betrayal bring out the worst in people, and I was no exception. To regain my sanity I needed to cut the cord. And that's really painful when you love someone and care about them. But what other choice is there? It's a well used line now, but what doesn't kill us truly does make us stronger.

 

Wow can I identify with both of your two posts here. Sounds like we had very similar stories. I wanted to smash her fu*king company-issued Blackberry. And I also did what I could to salvage a 17 year relationship (allowed her 90 days for one of them to find another job as he was her boss) and felt like less of a man while doing it. I will never feel good about the loss of that family unit but I don't think there's anything that could have been done. Many of the cards were already played before I even knew there was a game. Sucks.

[GLDheart]

Wow. That's a good line about the cards being played before you even knew there was a game... So true.

 

We the betrayed then have to pedal twice as hard just to catch up. We begin the "adjusting to the new reality phase" long after our spouse has already worked through it with thier secret little support system. We are on our own. The lucky ones of us have family and friends (that surprised me with how much they are willing to) step up.

[frozensprouts]

I was lucky enough to have my mom and dad and some good friends there to support me. My husband tried, but he had to leave a few weeks after we reconciled, so there wasn't a lot he could do ( kind of hard to support someone when the only contact you can have is gmail chat- if you're lucky- and the odd phone call with a 30 to 60 sec lag time:laugh:)

 

I did feel like I was going crazy for a while afterwards, I needed reassurance, ut there was not much that he could give me when we had so little contact. We ind of had to put everything off for a few months until he got back. Unfortunately, during that time, his ex other woman did what she could to make a pest of herself, and I had to deal with that alone.

[Steadfast]

Many of the cards were already played before I even knew there was a game. Sucks.

 

It does Kidd...and it doesn't.

 

We all have a choice when it comes to dealing with this stuff. No matter how it is sliced or how much it hurt, her betrayal and my acceptance of it opened up a whole new world for me. New people, places, projects and a new romance. In many ways, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. But earning this new position came at a high cost. I almost didn't survive it.

 

Funny; her 'issues' with me are totally different now than they were then. Her current position is that I'm a player and never really loved her. She was fighting a battle and has 'moved on'. My ex is very attractive and has younger, more handsome men lined up waiting. Why the anger? I gave her what she asked for.

 

I have come to the understanding that I'll never understand it.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Steadfast

[ComingInHot]

Steadfast: Maybe that's just it. Instead of questioning my own sanity, I need to accept that what my husband did was his choice and the things he did to me making me question my own stability was really him, well, just being a d%#$ during his A. My gosh it still thoroughly sucks rocks though! I am a "please" at heart and everything I did, said etc. was thrown in my face and twisted to a point I really thought I was going mad, including him accusing Me of cheating. Ahhhhh! That killed me as I am a sensitive personality that will literally run from advances made by men. Ugh!

[Steadfast]

Steadfast: Maybe that's just it. Instead of questioning my own sanity, I need to accept that what my husband did was his choice and the things he did to me making me question my own stability was really him, well, just being a d%#$ during his A.

 

Sure. It's called blame shifting and it is the very thing that points to them not truly being 'sorry' it happened. They aren't sorry. They are sorry you don't disappear and make it easier. Them feeling guilt opens the floodgates.

 

I do not mean to focus on my experiences at the expense of ignoring your situation, but it's the best way to express myself clearly. That said and in retrospect, I could have handled and forgiven the acts that led to her cheating. I was prepared to take on what I contributed and willing to forgive her because I loved her and valued our relationship. What caused me to let go was what she did, said, and justified after her confession. It wasn't -in fact- a confession, it was a proclamation. There is a difference. I had no choice but to act independently because she killed the relationship.

 

Judge actions CIH, not words. It's the only way to cut through the bull$hit.

[ComingInHot]

Steadfast: Please don't apologize! I think we are supposed to be able to communicate based on our own experiences. And it reminds me that I am not alone. Actions. Yes, mental noted*

[BetrayedH]

Wow. That's a good line about the cards being played before you even knew there was a game... So true.

 

We the betrayed then have to pedal twice as hard just to catch up. We begin the "adjusting to the new reality phase" long after our spouse has already worked through it with thier secret little support system. We are on our own. The lucky ones of us have family and friends (that surprised me with how much they are willing to) step up.

 

Pedaling twice as fast sounds about right. It took a long time to realize and accept that my wife had completely checked out of the marriage 13 months earlier. And then to try to reconcile? So you're suddenly in love with me now? And I have to not fall out of love with you after this? And then add in the kids and that the rest of life doesn't stop to get a grip on it all. What an absolutely surreal experience. Blindsided just doesn't even remotely suffice as a term to explain it.

[BetrayedH]

It does Kidd...and it doesn't.

 

We all have a choice when it comes to dealing with this stuff. No matter how it is sliced or how much it hurt, her betrayal and my acceptance of it opened up a whole new world for me. New people, places, projects and a new romance. In many ways, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. But earning this new position came at a high cost. I almost didn't survive it.

 

Funny; her 'issues' with me are totally different now than they were then. Her current position is that I'm a player and never really loved her. She was fighting a battle and has 'moved on'. My ex is very attractive and has younger, more handsome men lined up waiting. Why the anger? I gave her what she asked for.

 

I have come to the understanding that I'll never understand it.

 

I agree that it will get better on my end. New experiences and all that. I'm actually not terribly concerned about how my life will turn out. My first life sure got ruined but I'm on the second one now. I think you may just be a few years ahead of me.

 

I'm with you on the never understanding it part. I heard such a variety of "why" answers it was almost comical. I think for them it morphs into whatever justification will sound right to the crowd today. Nothing really justifies any of it so they just keep endlessly spinning. I think for the whole affair, they come up with one half-assed excuse after another for themselves and somehow think that it adds up to something more than half-assed. Fortunately, it's not my job to keep up with it anymore.

[Steadfast]

I agree that it will get better on my end.

 

It will...if you desire it enough. It isn't automatic friend. You know this.

 

I've read your posts and (I think) you have the proper outlook. An absence of the 'woe is me' mentality and a good sense of humor. Not taking oneself too seriously is a huge step towards healing and rediscovering passions.

 

This is why I wrote that gaining humility is so key. Discovering that (surprise!) the world doesn't revolve around you allows the heart and mind to grasp and deal with what happened. Being rejected by the one person I counted on more than any one else really did a number on me. Factor in that she was also my lover served up a double-whammy I'll never forget.

 

I don't want to forget. Not completely. Not the parts that helped me.

 

Your desire to help others will, and probably already has worked in your favor. Some of the PMs I gotten are absolutely amazing. The genuine thanks given by others makes me realize I've turned something very bad into a positive. You're doing that Kidd. You haven't wasted the lesson.