exMMs avoidant behaviors...

[AnotherRound]

In all the reading I'm doing here, and with recent direct posts to me, I've been thinking about this a lot. I have now had 3 convos with exMM about where he is. I know, I'm trying to not be his emotional support, but finding it harder to back out of that than it was even to just walk away from the physical parts of our A. I guess that's our draw, our attraction... that emotional support.

 

So, I had a recent convo with him and related to him that I want to stay out of all of it until he decides where he wants to be. Because, I do think he has avoided things in his relationships, definitely. I think he was willing to discuss things with his stbxw, but I also think that when she refused, he failed in that he didn't just do something regardless at that point.

 

So, we had a frank discussion re this. And he agreed, that he has avoided the divorce at all costs. That despite being unhappy with some major things in the relationship, bc he wasn't absolutely miserable in it, that he didn't push anything when she refused to address the issues. Hence, the As.

 

So, my concern now, and I did voice this to him, is that he is possibly the type of guy that would be avoidant, even if there had been communication. Of course, nobody will ever know how he would have acted, bc it didn't happen that way. But I do, now, find myself worrying about that.

 

I guess, if my decision is to give him and I a chance, where it's not an A, then I would have to go into it knowing all these things, and accepting it. I'm not a fearful kind of person, and I'm pretty sure that I can handle anything that is thrown my way, so I won't live in fear. But, now I'm questioning if I really want to get re-involved. I mean, I've come a long way, and gotten so much emotional distance (in that I can even be objective re their possible reconciliation!), do I really want to give that up?

 

I'm now thinking that even just after the divorce is final (meeting early next week for a settlement), that isn't enough time. I am thinking that I need more time for myself, but also for exMM to get his bearings and truly decide where he wants to be and what type of person he wants to be in the future, and in future relationships.

 

Thoughts on this? I know there isn't a set time, but it's something I'm tossing around now after our recent convos.

[veryhappy]

And...some people would call that a breakthrough. I think you'll try it out with this guy anyway. Don't jump all in, and watch how it goes. You don't owe him anything, so if he's not up to your standard dump his avoidant behind.

 

Stop talking to him...send him to a therapist. It will end up costing you, no matter how much you think you are professionally prepared. Just tell him to leave you alone until he's divorced.

[AnotherRound]

My two cents worth........most mm who have affairs are conflict avoidant. A lot of conflict avoidant people are also passive aggressive. I also think that pa people keep this part of them self hidden until you are in really deep and if not aware of it, you don't see it for what it really is.

 

From what you've posted I'd say your mm is absolutely ca. Ever noticed any pa traits from him?

 

Not really, re the PA stuff. With me, he has never avoided conflict. We have talked about every issue, no matter how uncomfortable. I think he's action avoidant... lol. In that, if he wants to talk about something, and then we do, and I didn't agree to compromise, he wouldn't change anything. ? If that makes sense. But, I'm willing to work through things, through talking them out, discussing, and if possible, compromising. So, we haven't run into that problem. He has always been very direct with me, and I him.

 

Now, I do think that the A was PA towards his stbxw. In that, when she refused to discuss the issues of their marriage, he didn't just do something himself. I know he's convinced that he DID do something, by having the A, but I do have to be careful not to judge that bc it's not what I would have done in the same situation.

 

My exH refused to discuss things with me at all. He would literally just leave the house and refuse my calls, texts, and just avoid me at all costs until I gave up. It was horribly frustrating. And then he had an A, but I didn't ignore it. I briefly confronted the OW, then confronted him, then asked for a divorce. So, I do have my opinions on what I thought exMM SHOULD have done. But I really try to avoid that, bc their situation had things that mine didn't... Mainly, children involved.

 

So, I'm not sure if exMM is conflict avoidant, or if he just doesn't know what to do when someone won't discuss anything with him when there are issues? I will say that I am glad to see him doing so much soul searching, even if it took a 2x4 to his head to make it happen. Whatever happens, I hope that he has learned some things about his own communication issues (esp his defiance in doing something when he is hitting a wall of inaction with someone else) so that he can lead a more peaceful life.

[AnotherRound]

And...some people would call that a breakthrough. I think you'll try it out with this guy anyway. Don't jump all in, and watch how it goes. You don't owe him anything, so if he's not up to your standard dump his avoidant behind.

 

Stop talking to him...send him to a therapist. It will end up costing you, no matter how much you think you are professionally prepared. Just tell him to leave you alone until he's divorced.

 

I want to try it, I'm not going to lie. But I also have enough distance, that I'm not naive to what I may possibly be getting myself into if I do try it. I think the biggest thing for me is, I ended it, not him. I am the one that walked away from it. So, I healed, and felt pretty good about my decision re that.

 

I have stopped talking to him, and he is seeing a therapist. I know that I can't be totally professional, bc I am too close to the situation (regardless of my time out of it). There were things that he brought up that I had to say, "yeah, I can't be objective about that now, maybe not ever, sorry". lol And I did discuss with him that until he is divorced, that we should not have contact. In fact, I went a step further and told him that until he no longer wants to be married to his wife, whatever his reasons, he needs to be all in for reconciliation. He continues to say that he wants a chance to see if they can even TRY to reconcile, bc he isn't sure he wants to be with her. He says, not if it's the way it was, but then questions if there is any chance that it could change and they could make it work. I can totally understand that, 100%.

 

So, I think I have a good plan in place, right? In that, I won't be his emotional support (he has a good support system, so I'm not leaving him out in the cold on that one), and that we won't discuss us any further until he decides that he wants it to be "us". I think that was fair, and he agreed that I made good points and that it was fair, so I feel pretty good about it right now.

[AnotherRound]

Sorry but you are still playing the therapist role with him. So not good for you. He needs to solve his own problems before he can be whole.

 

No, I was. We just discussed, today, that I won't be doing that anymore. I do realize I have been doing that with him, I never denied it, bc it was something I always did with him. So, we agreed, NC at all until he has decided where he wants to be, and is ready and willing to be there, 100%.

 

I am hoping that I can stick to not being his "therapist", but I admit, it's hard to not do. But he is seeing his own real therapist. I think sometimes, he honestly bounces off what his therapist says to him to me to see if I agree. It's like he needs 1000 people to agree before he takes it as "true". He just seems to really be seeking to find answers to things that there are no answers to, imo.

 

So, I have pulled myself out of the equation, and will try my damnedest to stay out of it.

[AnotherRound]

AnotherRound, is your MM going to go to therapy?

 

He is in IC now, and has been since the divorce process started. I think it has been helpful to him in that he is seeing things he refused to see before. I tried to tell him some of these things, but of course, coming from me, he didn't believe I could be objective, and thought I had an ulterior motive. So, yes, he is in now, has been, and as far as I know, plans to continue as he seems to be enjoying (if that's the right word?) learning about himself and his behaviors.

[AnotherRound]

What is IC?

 

Individual Counseling.

 

He offered to attend MC with stbxw, but she declined. So, he went to IC for himself.

[veryhappy]

How can you handle him telling you that he's wondering (*he*) whether they can make it work or not and reconcile. What's the approach? How can you do it after 7 years. I know you've been detached for an year, but I'd be fuming. I'd be fuming so badly, people would suspect a wildfire.

 

I wish you resolve to stay NC. Your love and support won't change him, if he doesn't want to change. Do not be surprised if two years from now they're dancing the same dance.

 

I haven't seen if you replied one of my questions on the initial thead. The seven years together sound to be child bearing years for you. Didn't you want kids? I understand not everyone wants kids, I'm just wondering how you can be so loving and understanding and supportive after eight years.

[veryhappy]

I glanced in the mirror and realized I'm a dragon...so naturally fuming lol

[AnotherRound]

How can you handle him telling you that he's wondering (*he*) whether they can make it work or not and reconcile. What's the approach? How can you do it after 7 years. I know you've been detached for an year, but I'd be fuming. I'd be fuming so badly, people would suspect a wildfire.

 

There's so much to it, but honestly, most of the reason I'm not, is bc I know that he has been honest with me. He has never tried to lie about the situation, or convince me that he was going to leave for me. He has been honest about his struggle in deciding what to do. About wanting happiness, but not knowing if a divorce would result in that for himself.

 

I have been out of it for over a year and a half. In those 7 years, I walked away many times, briefly sometimes, other times as much as 8 months, to date SGs. My life wasn't on hold, I didn't give up my life for him, that helps I think. I still pursued, and obtained, degrees, career moves, bought my own house, had my own friends and life and vacations, and dated. We always had some contact, by phone (that damn emotional support), but we often talked about the SGs I was dating. What I liked about them, what I didn't. Like I said, we are VERY open with each other, and it has worked for us well I think.

 

I wish you resolve to stay NC. Your love and support won't change him, if he doesn't want to change. Do not be surprised if two years from now they're dancing the same dance.

 

I don't want to change him. Nor, do I think that I can change him. What I would like to see is him make improvements in his life for himself, wherever that takes him. I love him, I just want him to be happy. He has not been happy for a long time, and now he has the chance to address that. Truly address that. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce, it may mean honest reconciliation. I'm not sure how I'm okay with it, I just am. I don't feel hurt at all, or jealous, or anything other than happy that he is evaluating and hopefully growing as a person and trying to be a better person. That's enough for me, bc I do love him. And I do realize that they may be doing this divorce thing for quite some time, another reason I am hesitant to become involved. I don't want to sway it, or muddle it, or influence it. I just want him to be happy, and he won't be if he isn't exactly where he wants to be when all is said and done.

 

I haven't seen if you replied one of my questions on the initial thead. The seven years together sound to be child bearing years for you. Didn't you want kids? I understand not everyone wants kids, I'm just wondering how you can be so loving and understanding and supportive after eight years.

 

I think I did answer, but I'll answer again. I do want kids... I think. lol I love the idea of kids, and I work with kids by choice, adore them. But I also know it's a LOT of work, and I've never been sure if I was able or willing to do that work, so, no kids yet. I still have a shot at kids of my own if I decide to, but I don't want to do it alone bc I do realize how much work it is. So, if I'm alone, I won't do it. But, I haven't been in any situation yet that I felt comfortable bringing a child into the mix. So, if I miss that window bc of biology, I'm okay with that, bc it wasn't obviously meant to be for me.

 

I think that the reason I can be so "loving and understanding and supportive" after all this time (as you put it), is bc I truly have nothing but love for this man. I am not bitter, I am not angry, I am not hateful. I walked away bc the situation wasn't working for me. But I understand why he stayed, and what his rationale was. I have a lot of empathy, it's part of my personality, so I'm not much for judging people or their actions. I'm more about putting myself in their shoes, as best as I can, and understanding. I don't like all of his decisions, or how he's handled everything, but I do love him, and appreciate his human-ness and his attempts to do what he thought was best.

 

He has recently said the same thing about me, fyi. lol That he is amazed at how I am able to pull my own feelings out of it. But, truth is, my feelings aren't even part of it. The only feeling I have is love for him, and hope that he ends up happy. That's it, there really isn't anything more to it. I am not, as understanding, when it comes to the new OW that came after me. She is something I'm not real comfortable talking about... yet. But it will come. Those hard feelings will fade away, bc I won't allow them to fester, bc it isn't relevant, nor does it do me any good. And to be honest, they aren't true feelings. They are jealousy, and that isn't healthy or emotionally mature. So, I will feel them, process them, and then let them go. And go they will, as they always do.

 

I know my faults, but empathy and understanding are not on that list. Those are strengths that I have, and I'm glad bc they allow me to live a life that isn't hate filled. I am at peace with my decisions, and at peace with the A situation. Like I said, not much scares me, I can handle anything thrown my way. And I try to handle it with as much grace and class as possible... eventually, the feelings follow.

[veryhappy]

I know you love this guy, buy he's an idiot for not moving through with the divorce and being with you.

 

Sometimes people need a kick to get moving, but I completely understand why you won't do it. The only thing you can do is leave him with his mess and hope out of your love that he had learned something.

 

I have high empathy, and inclined to be loving, supportive and understanding, but I put myself your shoes and I feel like taking one off and hitting his head with it.

Edited September 15, 2012 by cutedragon

[veryhappy]

Sorry for missing your reply on the children topic. What's his view on this? Is he willing and prepared to have kids with you? Is he enthusiastic or been there, done that about it?

 

How much did you imagine or want him in particular as the father of your children?

[AnotherRound]

How can you handle him telling you that he's wondering (*he*) whether they can make it work or not and reconcile. What's the approach? How can you do it after 7 years. I know you've been detached for an year, but I'd be fuming. I'd be fuming so badly, people would suspect a wildfire.

 

I wish you resolve to stay NC. Your love and support won't change him, if he doesn't want to change. Do not be surprised if two years from now they're dancing the same dance.

 

I haven't seen if you replied one of my questions on the initial thead. The seven years together sound to be child bearing years for you. Didn't you want kids? I understand not everyone wants kids, I'm just wondering how you can be so loving and understanding and supportive after eight years.

 

Your questions really got me thinking! I should also include, that I have never doubted that exMM had very real feelings for me. I never saw it as a competition of me vs. his wife, that seemed far too simplistic and black and white in a situation that I found a LOT of gray in. So now, I don't feel like he's choosing her "over" me. Not sure why I don't feel that way, I just don't. Maybe bc I know that he loves me, but love does not mean that we should be together?

 

I love my exH. I would never wish him harm, and he had an A on me! lol But loving him, or caring about him, does not mean that I can make a relationship work with him. It does not mean, imo, that we should go without our needs being met in order to stay together at all costs. I think it's much more important to value our needs and be apart, love or not, if that is what is better for us as individuals.

 

I would like nothing more than for exMM and his stbxw to work out their issues and truly find love again. That, imo, would be the best ending to this entire scenario, for all involved (yes, including me!). I don't think that's going to happen, and I'm sad for them about that, bc I know that they do care about one another and both want the marriage to work for their own reasons. But, next best scenario? Is that they are able to disentangle emotionally from the marriage and move on to find that authentic love for themselves.

 

If I had been the OW up until the divorce, I may not be in as good a place as I am now. Because I walked away, almost a year before the divorce started, I am able to have more emotional distance than I would have otherwise. And, had he thrown me under the bus, as they call it, it would be different. Had he denied knowing me or having feelings for me, it would be different. I've just been really lucky I guess in that I wasn't involved with an MM that lied to me, or about his marriage, or about his intent...

[AnotherRound]

Sorry for missing your reply on the children topic. What's his view on this? Is he willing and prepared to have kids with you? Is he enthusiastic or been there, done that about it?

 

How much did you imagine or want him in particular as the father of your children?

 

No problem. I would consider having children with him. I think he's a great father in many ways. But, I knew during the A that it was not fair to a child, and took all precautions to not get pregnant. He also knew that if our precautions didn't work, that I would not have an abortion (I don't make that choice for anyone else, but would not have one for birth control reasons). So, he was willing enough to have sex with me thousands of times knowing that if I got pregnant, I would keep the baby.

 

He does not want any more children. He honestly didn't want the ones he has, until he had them. His first child (not with stbxw) was an oopsie in that bc failed, and he has been a fantastic father despite not initially wanting children. His second child was a surprise to him, but not his stbxw, and despite having some resentment towards her re that, he is VERY close with his second child. So, he is the guy that will try to not have children, but if they happen, he steps up and handles it, and falls in love with them. So I haven't worried about that, bc I know that despite not intentionally getting pregnant, if we did, he would have been a father to our child. But the situation was so complicated, we did everything in our power to avoid that, and we were successful in that I have never gotten pregnant by him.

 

He is 15 years my senior, so, he is not looking to have children. He's looking to retire, and travel, relax. I'm still working on my career, and like I said, if I miss the window, I miss it. I don't want to selfishly bring a child into my life if I'm not able to parent the way that I want to parent, even if my biological clock is ticking away! lol

[AnotherRound]

I know you love this guy, buy he's an idiot for not moving through with the divorce and being with you.

 

Sometimes people need a kick to get moving, but I completely understand why you won't do it. The only thing you can do is leave him with his mess and hope out of your love that he had learned something.

 

I have high empathy, and inclined to be loving, supportive and understanding, but I put myself your shoes and I feel like taking one off and hitting his head with it.

 

Lol. Well, I think he is kicking himself too, bc he is now seeing that the decisions he was making before were based on unfounded fears. But, hindsight, eh?

 

I'm not perfect, and I can push his buttons unintentionally just like any lover can. We have had our own issues, but we have worked through them, and that took both of us, so we both get props for that.

 

He is very appreciative of me, and tells me so often. In our recent conversations, he has really seen how much I care for him, and that seems to help him. That I was giving him genuine and sincere advice, without my own stuff messing with it or making me attempt to manipulate.

 

In the end, it all comes down to where he is happy. If he is happy with his stbxw, then that's where he belongs. If he wants to try with me, that is something I'm strongly considering, but I have no guarantees that he will be happy with me either, LT. There are just too many variables. I can guarantee that I won't avoid communication like his stbxw does... and maybe that's enough, maybe not. I have no idea.

 

So, thanks for saying so... and you can hit him with a shoe if you want... lol

[veryhappy]

You need to seriously think about this topic, and ask him for specifics before you get involved. I wouldn't go with "oh honey, if you don't want kids I'm okay", I'd go with "what date can we start conceivig in the future?". This is a big issue that you need to address head on, or avoidant as he is, you'll end up missing the window just because he can.

Edited September 15, 2012 by cutedragon

[AnotherRound]

You need to seriously think about this topic, and ask him for specifics before you get involved. I wouldn't go with "oh honey, if you don't want kids I'm okay", I'd go with "what date can we start conceivig in the future?". This is a big issue that you need to address head on, or avoidant as he is, you'll end up missing the window just because he can.

 

I've thought about that, if it does go anywhere. But honestly, I'm not even sure if I want my own kids. I'm not set on it, and I'm not set against it. If I found myself in the right circumstances, that might change. But I know going in that he does not want any more children. So, I couldn't hold that against him, or expect him to change his mind (which is exactly what his stbxw did, then got pregnant on purpose by not taking her bc, and he has had resentment towards her since).

 

So, if he and I got into a relationship, and I decided that I definitely want children, then he would have a decision to make. And if he held steadfast that he didn't want children, and I decided that I really did... well, we'd have to figure that one out. Right now, I can say that I wouldn't not be with him bc of the kids thing bc I'm not even sure where I stand on it. If that changes, we'd have to address it.

 

I honestly don't think he would be avoidant with me re discussing anything. We talk about EVERYTHING, no holds barred, really, we do. I can't even tell you some of the convos we have had, lol. We are very honest and open with one another about everything. I honestly think that is what has kept us so close for so long and through everything. Talking to him recently was honestly like no time had lapsed, in that we were right back to discussing everything openly again, in a matter of minutes.

 

He knows he can tell me anything, and vice versa. I don't judge his thoughts or feelings, and he doesn't mine. That kind of validation is priceless, and we both feel very safe sharing with the other. That's what I am going to miss the most during all of this... not talking with him. It's our strongest strength, imo.

[2sunny]

I want to try it, I'm not going to lie. But I also have enough distance, that I'm not naive to what I may possibly be getting myself into if I do try it. I think the biggest thing for me is, I ended it, not him. I am the one that walked away from it. So, I healed, and felt pretty good about my decision re that.

 

I have stopped talking to him, and he is seeing a therapist. I know that I can't be totally professional, bc I am too close to the situation (regardless of my time out of it). There were things that he brought up that I had to say, "yeah, I can't be objective about that now, maybe not ever, sorry". lol And I did discuss with him that until he is divorced, that we should not have contact. In fact, I went a step further and told him that until he no longer wants to be married to his wife, whatever his reasons, he needs to be all in for reconciliation. He continues to say that he wants a chance to see if they can even TRY to reconcile, bc he isn't sure he wants to be with her. He says, not if it's the way it was, but then questions if there is any chance that it could change and they could make it work. I can totally understand that, 100%.

 

So, I think I have a good plan in place, right? In that, I won't be his emotional support (he has a good support system, so I'm not leaving him out in the cold on that one), and that we won't discuss us any further until he decides that he wants it to be "us". I think that was fair, and he agreed that I made good points and that it was fair, so I feel pretty good about it right now.

 

You're still his backup plan.

 

Even IF he gets D finalized - he needs serious counseling - and you're going to be better off not communicating with him until after he learns how to be a WHOLE man happy on his own.

 

He seems afraid to be on his own. You are being his emotional support system - and you're now getting sucked back in.

 

Stick with a healthy boundary that looks after you being happy without him - it's possible he may NEVER learn how to be happy - much less faithful to one woman.

[AnotherRound]

You're still his backup plan.

 

Even IF he gets D finalized - he needs serious counseling - and you're going to be better off not communicating with him until after he learns how to be a WHOLE man happy on his own.

 

He seems afraid to be on his own. You are being his emotional support system - and you're now getting sucked back in.

 

Stick with a healthy boundary that looks after you being happy without him - it's possible he may NEVER learn how to be happy - much less faithful to one woman.

 

He is afraid to be on his own, he has openly admitted that. He has been miserable being on his own. He owns it. Now, he's trying to figure out why that is, and how to fix it. Which is why he agreed with me on the NC.

 

I can only be his back up plan if I allow it. I am not giving him the power to "make" me be anything in his life. If I choose to go along with it, and I am his back up plan, I will take my lumps. After all, I'm actively making a choice armed with a LOT of information about him.

 

I agree, he may never be happy. I'm hoping that doesn't happen. In the mean time, I am happy, and content, just as I am. So, I'm not risking anything as of yet. If I do risk anything, it will be a conscious choice on my part, knowing the risks, and if I lose? Then I will handle it. That's all I can ask of myself, to go in with knowledge and to take it as it comes. I won't let fear rule my choices.

 

And like I've said before. If I try it, and he can't be happy and cheats on me, it won't break me. I will be hurt, yes, but that doesn't scare me. I will heal, and I will move on. And I will have no regrets.

 

We are currently NC. The reason for that is bc we both realize that he has some issues he needs to work through, and he needs to do it without me helping him along. I've got a pretty clear view of my boundaries at this point, and no doubt in my mind that I can keep them firm... even with him.

[2sunny]

I don't think you've created nearly enough distance to feel unharmed in this.

 

You are invested... Thats clear from your posts. And you seem to be trying to convince us ---> but I can see you are actually trying to convince yourself.

 

You do have expectations. You just don't want to admit it.

 

The HEALTHIEST thing for HIM would to be without ANY woman for a year or so - but I doubt you'll stay away and allow him that recovery time to heal from the pain of a M that ends.

 

He needs time and space to process his M - the D - and HIS PART IN IT. Whether or not he's even CAPABLE of DOING that is unseen... He won't learn about how he can be happy u til he does that. For you to stay far far away is key. HE has a ton of work to do emotionally! If he doesn't do it - and you rush in - he's not likely to learn from his past...and how to change his future.

 

You will be left with his broken self.

 

 

Do you see why I suggest staying away from communicating with him for a long time?

[AnotherRound]

I don't think you've created nearly enough distance to feel unharmed in this.

 

You are invested... Thats clear from your posts. And you seem to be trying to convince us ---> but I can see you are actually trying to convince yourself.

 

You do have expectations. You just don't want to admit it.

 

The HEALTHIEST thing for HIM would to be without ANY woman for a year or so - but I doubt you'll stay away and allow him that recovery time to heal from the pain of a M that ends.

 

He needs time and space to process his M - the D - and HIS PART IN IT. Whether or not he's even CAPABLE of DOING that is unseen... He won't learn about how he can be happy u til he does that. For you to stay far far away is key. HE has a ton of work to do emotionally! If he doesn't do it - and you rush in - he's not likely to learn from his past...and how to change his future.

 

You will be left with his broken self.

 

 

Do you see why I suggest staying away from communicating with him for a long time?

 

No, I do see what you are saying. But I honestly believe that I do have the emotional distance that I need. I wouldn't have thought a year ago that I would be able to tell him that he should reconcile with his stbxw without a pang of anything other than hope that he ends up where he can be happy.

 

I could be wrong, and over estimating myself. But I also know that I really can handle whatever is thrown my way. He won't kill me, his decisions/behaviors won't break me. I've been through far worse than anything he could do to me (purposely or not), so I'm just not worried about it.

 

Does that make sense? I know it's hard to understand for some who are so fearful of betrayal, but I've already been betrayed, and I made it through.

 

I am going to try to give him the time he needs. It will be hard, in that he and I both are very tempted to just jump in with each other. But, I think we can do it as best as we can, and if that's not good enough, then it just isn't good enough.

 

Thanks for the responses.

[AnotherRound]

I don't think you've created nearly enough distance to feel unharmed in this.

 

You are invested... Thats clear from your posts. And you seem to be trying to convince us ---> but I can see you are actually trying to convince yourself.

 

You do have expectations. You just don't want to admit it.

 

The HEALTHIEST thing for HIM would to be without ANY woman for a year or so - but I doubt you'll stay away and allow him that recovery time to heal from the pain of a M that ends.

 

He needs time and space to process his M - the D - and HIS PART IN IT. Whether or not he's even CAPABLE of DOING that is unseen... He won't learn about how he can be happy u til he does that. For you to stay far far away is key. HE has a ton of work to do emotionally! If he doesn't do it - and you rush in - he's not likely to learn from his past...and how to change his future.

 

You will be left with his broken self.

 

 

Do you see why I suggest staying away from communicating with him for a long time?

 

Oh, and ps... I don't have any expectations about his situation now. That is the absolute truth. I just want him to be where he wants to be.

 

Now, if we were to get into a relationship with one another, of course I would have expectations. That's a given. He is very clear on what those expectations would be, as I've been very clear about that.

 

But for right now? Nope, not a single expectation, honestly. I'm not refusing to admit anything, that is truly where I am right now. I will be happy no matter what he decides at this time. I'm perfectly content where I am, and have been for the past year and half (take a little time for healing in there). So, I'm not invested in the outcome. I will only be invested if I decide to pursue a relationship with him after the divorce. Right now, not invested beyond as much as I would be for any "friend" that I want to be happy. Honest.

[2sunny]

No, I do see what you are saying. But I honestly believe that I do have the emotional distance that I need. I wouldn't have thought a year ago that I would be able to tell him that he should reconcile with his stbxw without a pang of anything other than hope that he ends up where he can be happy.

 

I could be wrong, and over estimating myself. But I also know that I really can handle whatever is thrown my way. He won't kill me, his decisions/behaviors won't break me. I've been through far worse than anything he could do to me (purposely or not), so I'm just not worried about it.

 

Does that make sense? I know it's hard to understand for some who are so fearful of betrayal, but I've already been betrayed, and I made it through.

 

I am going to try to give him the time he needs. It will be hard, in that he and I both are very tempted to just jump in with each other. But, I think we can do it as best as we can, and if that's not good enough, then it just isn't good enough.

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

But see - here's the problem - you don't even know IF he's really going to be divorced -mainly because HE'S not sure he will actually end up divorced! And HE didn't really want the D - so his default is you.

 

And that's something you could be happy about?

 

I see a problem with THAT boundary! You may have been close friends - but not enough for him to WANT a divorce.

 

I'd never suggest any woman her be any mans second choice.

[2sunny]

Oh, and ps... I don't have any expectations about his situation now. That is the absolute truth. I just want him to be where he wants to be.

 

Now, if we were to get into a relationship with one another, of course I would have expectations. That's a given. He is very clear on what those expectations would be, as I've been very clear about that.

 

But for right now? Nope, not a single expectation, honestly. I'm not refusing to admit anything, that is truly where I am right now. I will be happy no matter what he decides at this time. I'm perfectly content where I am, and have been for the past year and half (take a little time for healing in there). So, I'm not invested in the outcome. I will only be invested if I decide to pursue a relationship with him after the divorce. Right now, not invested beyond as much as I would be for any "friend" that I want to be happy. Honest.

 

I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

 

You ARE invested. IF you weren't - you wouldn't be here posting all about your emotions on this situation for the past several weeks.

 

You're invested- and you want the outcome to be your way.

 

Please - who do you think you're fooling?

[AnotherRound]

I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

 

You ARE invested. IF you weren't - you wouldn't be here posting all about your emotions on this situation for the past several weeks.

 

You're invested- and you want the outcome to be your way.

 

Please - who do you think you're fooling?

 

I'm not trying to fool anyone, so, I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe you need to clarify what you mean by "invested" here. I think we are thinking it means two different things.

 

As for your previous post, the divorce is most likely going to happen, as his stbxw continues to refuse to discuss anything. Not sure how much reconciliation can happen if only one partner is participating? I'm not looking at it as if I'm his second choice, as in, he would rather be with her than with me. He would rather stay married than not. That has NOTHING to do with me. He and I haven't been together for 20+ years, our families don't spend holidays together, we don't have a child together, or grandchildren together, we don't have a business together. It's a very different situation. I'm not taking it personally, bc I don't believe it's personal. You obviously do, we disagree. I don't think it's the caliber of the woman in his mind, or that he's making a choice between her or me. He's making a choice based on many variables, she is one of them and I am one of them, but she is linked to FAR many more than I am in his life.

 

As for posting here, I'm simply killing time bc I'm working double shifts, night shift included. There is a lot of down time working a crisis line, so, I need something to do. I journal a lot, but this is even better bc I get responses. That's why I'm here. I'm working, not obsessing. I am also visiting other sites that I enjoy and reading a lot. I just read and type very fast, so I can interact a LOT in a short amount of time.

 

I appreciate you trying to help, I do. But in order to help, you're just going to have to trust me that I know where I am right now. I can't give you every detail and every variable, it was a 7 year long relationship, and you could never consider all of them bc I couldn't write it well enough for you to get a true grasp on it. You would have had to live it, and it appears that you haven't.

 

I have a pretty good grasp on what and where my boundaries are, and I find it a bit insulting that you believe you can see better than I can regarding that. I'm not an amateur on boundaries, I do this stuff every day, and I understand it very well. I said, I may be over estimating my strength, but I also said, if I am, no big deal, it won't kill me. I don't think I'm any more involved than I am aware, as I can walk away any second (and I did, just today, by initiating NC). So, thank you, and I will keep posting as I find it enjoyable and therapeutic, and you can follow the story. If you end up being correct, I will be the first to concede that point.

 

And you are absolutely incorrect in stating that I want the outcome "my way". What is my way? I have been apart from exMM for a year and a half. If I wanted to have still been with him, I could have. But I wasn't. He had a new OW, and was STILL contacting me and asking me to work it out with him, and I stood firm. My way? Wanting him to be happy is all I want. If you don't believe that, that's your prerogrative, but it's the truth. I really dislike when someone tries to tell me what I feel or what I want, as I'm the only one who knows that. And what reason would I have to come on a message board and lie about it? What does it gain me? Does it get me "my way"? It doesn't validate me in any way, as I am an internal validation focused person anyway, not an external. So, please refrain from assuming that you know what I want and desire. I am pretty straight forward, and I wouldn't say it if it wasn't the truth.

Edited September 15, 2012 by AnotherRound