modern gals believe in MATE FOR LIFE?

September 15, 2012

That's what makes threads like these depressing. I see old couples who've been together for life and are still in love and I wonder how? I've seen old men lose their only wife and it was like losing their own life. My oh my how different the times used to be...

Time have changed, but not in the way you think. I invite you to reread this earlier post from the previous page;

Marriages were not necessarily longer because people were in love more.
Divorce has only become easier and more equal in the past couple of decades. Not all long marriages were/are happy/blissful. Some stayed together because it was the done thing, divorce is frowned on, religion, fear, habit, "for the children"....

There's all kinds of reasons why marriages are shorter now.
Chiefly, people don't have to put up with Bullschytt.....

This sums it up. Nowadays people (especially women) have the freedom to leave crappy relationships. I dont think there are less happy and loving relationships around as there were in the past.

Remember that in the past, many women dealt with abusive and cheating husbands, but stayed just because divorce was frowned upon and they had a matriarch role to fulfill. I have a friend whos grandparents stopped sleeping in the same room years ago, barely embrace one another, and he also cheated...yet she stayed with him because of the reason I gave before.

Also, lets not forget that most women from earlier generations didnt really have the means to support themselves if they decided to divorce. Women earning enough money to live comfortably on their own is still somewhat recent when compared to the rest of American history. Our moms may have been able to support themselves, but not our grandparents. Im in my 20s, so thats how the generational breakdown works for me. Itll be different for older poster.

All this isnt to say that sometimes men didnt feel trapped in marriages, as Im sure some were. And women cheated in the past too as well....but men still have more control over a marriage because they had more money and status in society...and werent seen as lesser citizens the way women used to be (and somewhat still are). Women had A LOT to lose if they strayed from their men.

PS - with all this said, many loving relationships did and still do exist. But lets not pretend every single relationship was bubblegum and sunshine.

Edited September 15, 2012 by kaylan

September 15, 2012

That's what makes threads like these depressing. I see old couples who've been together for life and are still in love and I wonder how? I've seen old men lose their only wife and it was like losing their own life. My oh my how different the times used to be...

I guarantee that there are people married right now that will grow old together.

If we are lucky enough to both live so long, my H and I plan to be among them (we've made it from teens to middle-aged together so far!).

September 15, 2012

absolutely yes

the only deal-breakers, are abuse violent/sexual/verbal/emotional/mental. and infidelity.

i can endure anything else.

September 15, 2012

OP, perhaps you should define 'modern' as a date to set a demarcation as to what is modern and what is 'old-fashioned'.

For example, I was bore to a 'modern' woman who didn't get married until her 30's and was completely self-sufficient and living alone until she got married. She was married for her husbands natural life. What I and others might consider modern you might consider old-fashioned.

In my age group and social circle I know of no couple who has been married for life, meaning both partners are on their first M. Nearly all the people are on their second marriages. My fSIL and her H were a rare exception, getting married in their teens and AFAIK are still married 30 years later. A friend's daughter similar, but she's ten years younger than me. A friend's son recently got married and they (according to them) believe in the value and commitment of marriage long-term. I would assert that most people do when they make the commitment. It's like the old saying, you make plans and then life happens.

September 15, 2012

I don't really believe in a mate for life.

A lot of the time I think about it and would like it, but my longest relationship has been two years, so I don't know how I could handle 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 years.

Plus my parents have been together for about 40 years and often tell me that they think monogamy is unnatural and that comes from the horses mouth

I think the idea of 1 partner for life is most peoples dream, but reality is very different.

The reasons for this are multiple.

In most cultures where people do mate for life it's often an arranged marriage and this doesn't make the 2 people any happier in most cases.

Most people want their cake and to eat it too, and many people will not tolerate that. Sometimes I think we need to reframe our idea of 'ownership' of a loved one.

I don't know...I'm a hopeless romantic and a massive cynic rolled into one.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Nikki Sahagin

September 16, 2012

if i marry a guy, it will be cuz i will spend the rest of my life with him, no point in marrying a guy that you cant see that way

i think divorce is popular cuz people dont take marriage seriously, they marry cuz their getting old or cuz they are lonely, or maybe its cuz they just cant find someone that they really want to be with so they marry and hope for the best but end up divorcing anyway

its hard to find someone to be with in that way, the reason i think back then people stayed together was becuz divorce looked really bad and today its not so bad

if those couples lived in this time today probably 80% of them would be divorced, now they just stay becuz they are too old to be single and find someone else its too late

September 16, 2012

It's what I want. It's unlikely.

I've 'coupled up' 3 times already and I'm 36. None of those were for life, evidently.

So I'm all in with my boyfriend now, we're planning house, marriage, kids (that order). Wonder what the chances are of it being 'til death do is part? My heart says Very High. My experience tells me it's more like Best Chance Yet But No Guarantee.

It's what I want, too. I'm optimistic but realistic. I can definitely imagine meeting someone who I like and who likes me enough for us to stay together till one of us dies.

I'm 36, too, and none of my previous relationships has lasted more than a few years. But I think that's because I was picking the wrong guys, due to my own issues - I always figured out eventually he wasn't the guy for me and broke it off. Now I try to be smarter and more realistic, rather than dreamy and overly idealistic.

Sometimes I think a lasting relationship is just not in the cards for me. But other times, it seems well within reach. In any case, I'm still going for it. I haven't given up

September 16, 2012

I believe we could mate for life. I just don't think you can expect a 20yr old or possibly even a 30yr old to be able to make that type of commitment. I think by mid 30's, 40's or 50's a person could, because they have already experienced life, they know themselves and they know what's out there.

I think it's naive and a little cruel to expect to hold someone really young to such a commitment.

September 16, 2012

so... to stir the pot here a little.... some want it, yet in the same breath don't think it will happen or is possible. isn't that shooting your foot?

sure, things do happen in life, but without willfully working hard at keeping things going in the direction you both desire (staying together into old age), isn't that the same as not trying and allowing it to fail? Isn't the thought of considering the option the reason the option exists in the first place? I know that sounds radical but it is back to the old "If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything" easier to fall down than to stand up.

It's not up to me to claim the best way for man and women to exist is in one monogamous relationship for life, when both partys really only want some temporary arrangements. But from my "single" perspective, and what I view in couples and married couples, they long for ONE life long love, someone to deeply get to know, and not have to start all over again, one that is there and reliable through thick and thin... THAT seems to be the interest I notice in real life, and rarely or never the opinion of "meh... probably never really happen" or "eh... not realistic".

So, our desires don't match our actions, and our actions don't support our desires? Can't WE consciously decide what to support and stick to it?

I wouldn't mind getting married someday but perhaps it will never happen since I would seek a mate for life, but today's gal thinks that isn't realistic, thus, willing that thought into reality. I won't tolerate doubt. That would be a weakness caused by my inability to support her trust in US and that just won't be allowed to happen.

I would think if people recognized what they truly wanted - be it partner changes or one for life - they would always work to make that happen.... like we do in our careers. Ha I just realized we put more into our career guidence and direction than our relationships. how messed up is that? hahahaha Priorities anyone?

September 16, 2012

I think by mid 30's, 40's or 50's a person could, because they have already experienced life, they know themselves and they know what's out there.

Hah. Not encessarily. Although I know you probably didn't mean to say that all 40 year olds would be interested in life-long commitment.. My ex is a 40-year-old baby who seems to want flings with 18-year-old women. Prostitutes in Thailand of all 18-year-old women.

September 16, 2012

Hah. Not encessarily. Although I know you probably didn't mean to say that all 40 year olds would be interested in life-long commitment.. My ex is a 40-year-old baby who seems to want flings with 18-year-old women. Prostitutes in Thailand of all 18-year-old women.

No I didn't mean that all people of either sex would want a lifelong commitment at that age. And I wasn't speaking for men at all, since the title of the thread was "modern gals". Who the hell knows what men want, I sure don't.

September 16, 2012

so... to stir the pot here a little.... some want it, yet in the same breath don't think it will happen or is possible. isn't that shooting your foot?

sure, things do happen in life, but without willfully working hard at keeping things going in the direction you both desire (staying together into old age), isn't that the same as not trying and allowing it to fail?

Well it takes 2 to want to try and make the relationship work. I was prepared to stay with my last boyfriend for my whole life, he wasn't. It wouldn't have mattered what I did, since I think he had mentally checked out much earlier, he was just looking to either convince me to break up with him, or an excuse to break up with me. I spoke up once, and tried to communicate my needs, and he said "you resent me" and left.

As for your first sentence, I know it comes across like shooting ourselves in the foot, but blind optimism doesn't always make life go your way. If no one is interested in me and whatever I am trying to change that isn't working, it is natural to wonder if it ever will happen. Shooting ourselves in the foot, would be more barricading ourselves inside our homes, and gaining 200kg all the while crying that "nobody loves me".

Which is a bit different from, "Given the amount of interested men that cross my path, and my present circumstances, it seems highly unlikely that I will ever find myself in a relationship again".

September 16, 2012

so... to stir the pot here a little.... some want it, yet in the same breath don't think it will happen or is possible. isn't that shooting your foot?

I definitely see your point, and I was thinking about this as I was writing my post. What I want is one thing. What has historically been true for me is another. I don't worry about my ability to remain true to one man. Loyalty and fidelity come naturally to me. But I guess I worry about the man staying true to me. There are so many distractions and temptations. I know this is true for men and women.

sure, things do happen in life, but without willfully working hard at keeping things going in the direction you both desire (staying together into old age), isn't that the same as not trying and allowing it to fail? Isn't the thought of considering the option the reason the option exists in the first place? I know that sounds radical but it is back to the old "If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything" easier to fall down than to stand up.

I agree with you. Just speaking about the US now, I think what the whole country has to do is get back to some decent morals and values. I think our real weakness as a country right now is a moral one. People are forgetting what it means to be human and support each other, as neighbors, communities. The family unit has taken a battering in the past few decades. And the center of any healthy society is healthy families. Monogamous, loving parents are the leaders of those families - not restless dad or mom who wandered away to explore their personal fantasies.

It's not up to me to claim the best way for man and women to exist is in one monogamous relationship for life, when both partys really only want some temporary arrangements. But from my "single" perspective, and what I view in couples and married couples, they long for ONE life long love, someone to deeply get to know, and not have to start all over again, one that is there and reliable through thick and thin... THAT seems to be the interest I notice in real life, and rarely or never the opinion of "meh... probably never really happen" or "eh... not realistic".

I want the same thing you want. But we all get lazy and cynical sometimes, which tends to make us act out of character. Give people a chance to shake off the dust and stand up straight.

My hopes were high with this great guy I've been dating for 3 months - and now he has to move out of state for work, so I'm wondering if modern circumstances are going to put too big a crimp in things. We'll see.

So, our desires don't match our actions, and our actions don't support our desires? Can't WE consciously decide what to support and stick to it?

Great point. You're talking about a basic human question - are my actions in alignment with my values? People tend to hold themselves back by being lazy, or by being scared. Of course, the brave, self-actualized thing to do is to support your desires with your actions. I think people want to do that, but most have a lot working against them and need some help to get there.

I wouldn't mind getting married someday but perhaps it will never happen since I would seek a mate for life, but today's gal thinks that isn't realistic, thus, willing that thought into reality. I won't tolerate doubt. That would be a weakness caused by my inability to support her trust in US and that just won't be allowed to happen.

Don't be so rigid. Don't you have doubts about anything? Have some compassion for basic emotional responses. A fearful, doubtful person with reasonable reassurance can quickly become a very brave, full-of-faith person.

I would think if people recognized what they truly wanted - be it partner changes or one for life - they would always work to make that happen.... like we do in our careers. Ha I just realized we put more into our career guidence and direction than our relationships. how messed up is that? hahahaha Priorities anyone?

Good little obedient workers.

September 16, 2012

so I'm wondering if modern circumstances are going to put too big a crimp in things. We'll see.

Yep. This part extends to the breaking down families you mentioned also. But that can be a whole other topic.

I have the compassion, but not for a world that supports doubt and fear for profit over humanity's sanity. To be honest, I have almost no fear or doubt and people hate that. Had a girlfriend once who wished I had more issues.... REALLY???? Had sad is that?!

...but commercialism profits more from the breakups than staying together. I'm just a concientious objector to that.

Let me put this on the men: If more men would stand up and have the nads to BE men, the ladies would doubt less and not end up wanting one thing and ending up with another. I blame men really.

But as seen here, guys dupe and screw people over - because they are not acting like real men and holding up their duties because the going gets tough. REAL men can handle tough.

September 16, 2012

It's what I want, too. I'm optimistic but realistic. I can definitely imagine meeting someone who I like and who likes me enough for us to stay together till one of us dies.
I'm 36, too, and none of my previous relationships has lasted more than a few years. But I think that's because I was picking the wrong guys, due to my own issues - I always figured out eventually he wasn't the guy for me and broke it off. Now I try to be smarter and more realistic, rather than dreamy and overly idealistic.
Sometimes I think a lasting relationship is just not in the cards for me. But other times, it seems well within reach. In any case, I'm still going for it. I haven't given up

I think it's rare for people to marry with the intent to divorce down the road.

However, marriage as an institution is worthless. It has been crapped on culturally and torn to shreds to the point where for most Americans it just isn't worth it. I think we need to end marriage as a legal institution. I don't think many people even believe it in.

I absolutely can build a lasting relationship without marriage. In fact it's more likely to hamper me than help.

September 17, 2012

I absolutely can build a lasting relationship without marriage. In fact it's more likely to hamper me than help.

I agree, from looking around me, I saw 2 relationships that really worked over the long haul and they were couples that never married.

September 17, 2012

Ha I just realized we put more into our career guidence and direction than our relationships. how messed up is that? hahahaha Priorities anyone?

I didn't and I am alone with no career. Time for me to put the effort into my career.

September 17, 2012

This is an interesting thread.

OP, if I am interpreting it correctly I agree with your criticisms that people simply do not put enough thought and effort into marriage today (at least from a U.S. perspective). People here criticize arranged marriage and talk of abusive relationships. However, what I do think that a culture or arranged marriage (or at least a culture that respects marriage) does is hold people accountable for their choices and moral character. While there are abusive and problem marriages, I find that many modern marriages fall apart simply due to apathy and lack of consideration for your partner. It is completely acceptable to wander off and find a new partner and leave your marriage/family if some level of transient happiness is not met. This goes for both sexes.

There is also the question of educating others as to what marriage is and is not. A big part of failure is expectation and criteria for choice. Many women used to choose men who were good providers and stable fathers for their children. Now, both sexes go more for attractiveness, fun and passion. However, both do this at the expense of other character traits such as loyalty, consideration, down to earth characte, etc. They also expect that excitement, attraction, and passion to last. When it does not, they want to leave. What many before us had was a contract. My parents have been married almost 40 years and the passion faded long ago. What they take solace in is having someone to support and help them as they get into old age and need more help. If both sexes looked for a steady, stable, considerate friend in a spouse rather than blatant sexual passion and excitement and kept those expectations of their spouse, I do think marriage would be more successful. Just IMO.

September 17, 2012

I agree with everything there. So, it sounds like lack of education as to what marriage REALLY is, or maybe "bad marketing" might be to blame.

The way it appears to me is a lot of selfishness - from both men and women - *I* want, *I* need, what do *I* get.... rather than are you giving your 100% to get the 50/50 back? Both sides shoudl do that and stop looking down the highway for offramps. Just stay on the damn road! It's really simple.... unless you have the entire planet blaring at you what YOU could be missing out on (selfishness again), who ELSE >YOU< could be with (selfish), how much cash or bling you could haul with someone else (selfish greed)

Is there really anyway to RE_EDUCATE everyone when the lawyers pay big bucks into the "entertainment" (production funding companies) that keeps you distracted and shows you better options 100% of the time? I don't think we can beat that system. Going Amish anyone?

Looks like generationally people are growing SHORTER attention spans, and GREATER levels of entitlement, delivered int he short time by those that stand to make a buck for now and the next minute. How can we fight the money? The family law billion dollar industry and the media it supports creating new business??

So, I'm all for helping further education about the reality of the commitment... how can we proceed?

September 17, 2012

So, I'm all for helping further education about the reality of the commitment... how can we proceed?

I think people eventually realize that there is something missing in their lives....depth, connection, partnership....and seek commitment later in life. These days, there is an "extended adolescence" with people delaying responsibility and family life later and later....until 40s and beyond. But eventually, most grow tired with the emptiness of new and exciting, and want substance.

When commitment is the "better" option, people choose it.

September 17, 2012

"...been married to him for 60 years... maybe not always love, but we endured"

POLL: DO MODERN WOMEN STILL BELIEVE IN MATE FOR LIFE?

YES or NO and why?

In the past, the marriage ceremony used to say "till death do us part", meaning a pledge to stay together through thick and thin, work it out, fix it, compromise and work at making it work.

Now, in our fast food, trade up world, is it more of a temporary rental deal until it gets boring or a better offer comes along?

Is the old way "dated" and socially evolving away?

Yes I believe in mate for life.Its the way its meant to be.Even though it has not happened for me or I have not seen it in my life doesnt mean i dont believe in it. I have seen other people who seem happily married and love their husbands wives funnily enough these people have strong faith....funny that huh? not really funny just logical.....Sometimes you should have hope or faith in pipe dreams or who lays the pipes if no one believes the pipes will work.....pretty useless anyone getting married if you dont believe in dreams.In saying that sometimes it doesnt work.....So be it......sometimes dreams turn into nightmares then you get out..... or wake up......deb

September 18, 2012

Yes I believe in mate for life.Its the way its meant to be.Even though it has not happened for me or I have not seen it in my life doesnt mean i dont believe in it. I have seen other people who seem happily married and love their husbands wives funnily enough these people have strong faith....funny that huh? not really funny just logical.....Sometimes you should have hope or faith in pipe dreams or who lays the pipes if no one believes the pipes will work.....pretty useless anyone getting married if you dont believe in dreams.In saying that sometimes it doesnt work.....So be it......sometimes dreams turn into nightmares then you get out..... or wake up......deb

just to be contrary... IS IT the way it is meant to be? Or does growth toward the more modern direction mean getting closer to the way it is meant to be? If not, then why are things growing in that direction? Lazy selfishness?

I will agree there is a lot to faith helping that out also. And that I see way more happiness in long life together, over many splits and NOT long life together, but that might just be what *I* see.

I bet most people don't know a >LOT< of old HAPPY single people. The few I've seen seemed like depressed negative nancys. Again, maybe that is just my small sampling.

September 18, 2012

I bet most people don't know a >LOT< of old HAPPY single people. The few I've seen seemed like depressed negative nancys.

Again that age number thing (old). I personally know a fair amount of older, meaning age 65-80+, 'single' people (generally divorced many years ago or widowed) who are doing just fine and enjoying life. In my own example, with the 'modern' woman I used, she lived another 26 years as a happily single person after her husband died and never partnered up with a man again. About 8 of those were scourged with dementia, so 18 'good' years. People define their own lives and their own happiness. I'm smiling a lot more now than at any time in the past so maybe I'll become another outlier to the generality you offered, if accurate. I will say I do run into more older (60+) single women than men. Most are happy to be alive. YMMV.