Moose Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 I don't understand how you can live with yourselves being the other man or woman not taking your vows seriously. Here's my questions to you: Don't you have any feelings of guilt making your spouse an idiot? If you don't care about your spouses feelings why are you still married? If you're having an affair and don't want to divorce for the sake of your children, ( That's a lame excuse if you ask me ), aren't you teaching them it's ok to cheat on their spouse? What do you think the percentages are of cheaters out there? I'm not trying to put anyone down in this area of the forum, I just have questions and can't seem to understand how you can do this without guilt. Thanks Moose
EC Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 I've asked the same questions all I get are excuses no answers!
HokeyReligions Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 Some people just don't care. They have no guilt because they just don't really care at all. The ex of a friend of our (the one I've mentioned before who said she only dated married men until she wanted to settle down) said it didn't matter one bit to her if others got hurt. It wasn't her responsibility--she was only looking out for herself and getting what she wanted out of life. If her MM broke up with her, she would find a new one. If she fell in love with a MM, she would deal with that and if he didn't leave his wife for her, she would dump him---and go find another MM. She didn't want to wash his clothes or listen to him gripe or remind him to mow the lawn, or any of the other things that are part of life. She said that was the wife's job -- taken when they were married. Some people just don't care. Others do, but its pretty darn hard to do what is right for others when it tears your soul out. I can say that intellectually, but I can't get my own heart around that concept either. I think a lot of people don't realize what they are getting into. Thats why we see so many OW/OM posts here--there is something that drove them to seek some opinions from others and they found LS. Whether they are looking for justification or support to stay or go---something is amiss. We tend to be pretty hard on them here, but sometimes I think that's the only way to get through to some people in an affair. I HOPE that those who have left with more questions, or more hurt, then they came with ALSO find the strength to break away or stand up for themselves and heal. Some people can start swimming to the surface from half way down in the pool, but others have to hit bottom first so they can kick off toward the surface. I think we are rock-bottom for some people. That's just my view on it though. I've stopped trying to wrap my heart around the whole thing. I can't feel what they feel and I don't want to. I'm not one to climb a mountain just because its there.
Olivia_19742004 Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 It's called the selfish gene. And I'm looking at this as purely scientific. As a species our primary concern is our own individual survival.
Naive Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 I am so sure that Mr. Spock is going to put her 2 cents here!!!!!!!!!
Fayebelle Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 So I was gonna stay out of this b/c I REALLY wanted to hear what the scoop was...but there is no answer! This is tricky too though b/c it seems most of the cheaters (sorry lack of better term) who post here are OW- that really doesn't give insight to the married person's mind. I'm just baffled- Please someone- ENLIGHTEN US!
JarrodsLady Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 As a former OW...not a married spouse... I can tell you that my motives were out of wishful thinking, in other words, selfishness. I wanted him, I knew it hurt her but she cheated on him first with his brother-in-law so I somehow justified it. The whole affair is something that I wish never happened. I wish that at that moment in my life (which was only 4 months ago that it started, 2 months since it ended) I had the strength to tell him no. But I didn't until 2 months ago and now I have to live forever with the shame of being a former OW. Now, there are things that I can honestly say makes me feel better about the whole situation... I never hid anything from her, when he wanted me, I told him to go home and end things with his wife before he could have me and he did, but I still played in their stupid game. My fault and his! But that is all in the past. I chose not to stay the OW, I gave him the ultimatum and he chose her so thats that. So honestly, selfishness! I wanted him and whoever got hurt, that was just part of it. Luckily I have a good heart and walked away. JarrodsLady <------ Hes my SG, well not single, hes mine....hehe I just pray that what I did to her doesnt come back to haunt me! But if it does, I get what I deserve.
Author Moose Posted July 22, 2004 Author Posted July 22, 2004 Jarred's lady, Please don't be too hard on yourself. We've all made our mistakes, you've learned from it, look at my quotes, the one of keeping your feet in today.......thanks for sharing too. Best Wishes Moose
FolderWife Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 I gotta say, I was EASILY sucked into being the other woman. I was sad, lonely, and depressed, and this guy with a girlfriend was giving me attention. My mom was the other woman, and my dad left his fiance for her...romantic story, heard it all my life...why couldn't it happen for me? Well, this guy broke up with his g/f, and we went out for a week. He got back with her, and we remained friends. Things heated up, and he was going to dump her when the time was right. Then I find out they're engaged, so it's going to be a while, but he's going to do it when the time is right. Then I find out that his mom bought a dress for the wedding, and I say enough's enough, and I break up with him. If you are ignorant. You are LONELY. Some guy you are already attracted to comes on to you. Then you are going to be the other woman. It's sheer ignorance. In some people, it's selfishness, because once I made out with a guy, because his girlfriend stole him from me, and I wanted to get back at her So once I was the other woman out of hatred. Once I was the other woman out of ignorance. I would never cheat on my husband, though, because I love him. I may've cheated on a boyfriend when I was 16....I may've held hands with another guy. I don't remember though. It was because I didn't even realize I was cheating. I think cheaters are lonely, and they befriend someone. She's/He's just a friend. They they flirt ~innocently~ Then, they fool themselves into thinking that the rush they get when they touch them is just friendship and attraction...nothing more..it's not cheating. Then, the rush takes over, and they kiss. WHOA, that'll never happen again..they apologize to their cheating partner, and promise it'll never happen again. Since they both promise it'll never happen again, they let their guard down, and then when they start making out, and it gets hotter, and they just keep telling themselves that they're not going to do any more, then one of them makes a move, and the other just feels like they can't say no at this point, and it HAPPENS. Then they get in the same predicament, only this time, they don't hold back, because, "Well, I've already done it once, I'm already a cheater, might as well do it again, since I want to". and the cycle continues, until one day they can't take it any more and stop, or they get caught. Lust is very easy to get caught up in. It's sheer ignorance! Men and women will tell themselves that things like innocent flirting are ok, but litterally, ONE THING LEADS TO ANOTHER. That's why, when I catch myself being friendly with a particular guy, I remind myself that things can get out of hand, and I start to watch myself. There is innocent flirting, like the flirting you do with old men, or little boys, or people that you just aren't attracted to, because they're fat or ugly. Then there's DANGEROUS flirting, and that's flirting with someone that you do think is a little attractive...because flirting with them makes them more attractive. Now, does all that answer your question? If not, I'll continue.
Author Moose Posted July 22, 2004 Author Posted July 22, 2004 That's fine Monday, I get the idear....thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I'm sure this part of the forum has been filled with exuces why people cheat. I just can't come up with one that would cause me to do so. Even if I found out my wife cheated on me, I know I wouldn't run out and get laid from anybody. I guess it is genetic.
Adunaphel Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 It's called the selfish gene. And I'm looking at this as purely scientific. As a species our primary concern is our own individual survival. Unfortunately the invention of birth control screws up the selfish gene theory (that is, for all OMs, OWs, and married people that don't receive economical benefits from their affairs). Besides Richard Dawkins himself stated that men (i.e. humans), who are intelligent beings, are not entirely ruled by genes and can make choices, thus the 'it's in my genes'excuse for cheating is a very lame one. Said that, I believe that the OM/OW can be partly excused or at least understood in some circumstances/situations. I also think the cheater should be to blame *way*more that the OW/OM.
fanou22 Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Moose Don't you have any feelings of guilt making your spouse an idiot? If you don't care about your spouses feelings why are you still married? If you're having an affair and don't want to divorce for the sake of your children, ( That's a lame excuse if you ask me ), aren't you teaching them it's ok to cheat on their spouse? What do you think the percentages are of cheaters out there? Moose Moose, You are asking this question assuming all the OW are married. They should directed towards the cheating MM. The majority here are unmarried. To answer your question most of us feel guilty one way or the other about the mess we got ourselves into. Read about the "love addiction" maybe it will help you understand. I tried doing so with my MM (understand why he cheats). You can find what I found out under my post "the past that affects the present......" I am firm believer in MM cheating has deeper issues than what it looks like as in something is wrong with his relationship right from the beginning. As OWs we all ask these questions but no one can answer them except the MM - that is if he is honest. Hope this helps.......
thecake Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 "I'd rather be the one he's cheating with than the one he's cheating on - at least I know what's going on." I think some women are too scared to have a real relationship because they honestly think all men will cheat at some point....so they're kind of trying to beat the system....they're proving to themselves that yes a married man will cheat on his wife with me...what's the point of marriage? Quite frankly, (from what I hear ) you get the best of a married man when he cheats - no talk about the bills, kids, yard work, in-laws, etc...it's usually just good times. I think there are a million reasons why people have affairs therefore why try to understand it? And, never say never....there are a ton of people who "think" they would never have an affair or become involved with a married person and wake up one day to find out they're right in the middle of it.
Fayebelle Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by fanou22 Moose, You are asking this question assuming all the OW are married. They should directed towards the cheating MM. The majority here are unmarried. To answer your question most of us feel guilty one way or the other about the mess we got ourselves into. Read about the "love addiction" maybe it will help you understand. I tried doing so with my MM (understand why he cheats). You can find what I found out under my post "the past that affects the present......" I am firm believer in MM cheating has deeper issues than what it looks like as in something is wrong with his relationship right from the beginning. As OWs we all ask these questions but no one can answer them except the MM - that is if he is honest. Hope this helps....... Actually- I believe Moose WAS directing this more towards MM OR MW. But like I said- not too many of them visit our little Shack of Love.
Olivia_19742004 Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Unfortunately the invention of birth control screws up the selfish gene theory (that is, for all OMs, OWs, and married people that don't receive economical benefits from their affairs). The invention of birth control does not screw up the seflish gene theory. You're looking at it as though our genes are behaving on a conscious level and that is not what the theory claims. Have you even read the book? Besides Richard Dawkins himself stated that men (i.e. humans), who are intelligent beings, are not entirely ruled by genes and can make choices, thus the 'it's in my genes'excuse for cheating is a very lame one. Are you sure Richard Dawkins said this? Richard Dawkins was extremely atheist and believed that human behavior was directly linked to our genes. Free will is a "religious" term and it highly uncharacteristic of Dawkins to support anything associated with the validity of religion. If you'd like to learn more try reading some of the following: The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins The Meme Machine by Susan Blackmore and Richard Dawkins Opening Skinners Box by Lauren Slater.
dudesomewhere Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 hmm, I'll keep my end short...maybe Percentage of ppl who cheat male or female is at a minimum of 55%. MINIMUM! Some ppl cheat because they think degenerate behavior is sexy, worldly or sophisticated. And yes, some ppl can say never because some have been proferred such situations. I've been approached but I don't take the bait. Maybe I'm stupid or I'm too much a kid and like being innocent. There are many "adult" things I find nothing adult about. I actually find the term "adult entertainment" offensive...I really do. They should rename it, "not for minors entertainment".
Fayebelle Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by dudesomewhere Some ppl cheat because they think degenerate behavior is sexy, worldly or sophisticated. Good point! I frequently read/hear how monogomy is something only Americans take so seriously. Hey Curly- where are you! Is this true? silly girl acts like there's a time difference and she can't be online whenever I am I'll PM her and get back to you!
moimeme Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Free will is a "religious" term and it highly uncharacteristic of Dawkins to support anything associated with the validity of religion. Not it's not. It's a philosophical term and has been debated for a long time by philosophers, both secular and religious. And I couldn't find it, but I'm quite sure he did say that his theory wasn't meant to indicate that people 'can't help' their behaviour.
VivianLee Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Again, I feel like this question is asked once a week by a different person...I doubt those that have never cheated are ever going to get an answer that satisfies them....it's one of those situations that you have to have been there or you'll never understand....although I don't really think there is anything concrete to really understand when you are talking about emotions....It seems to me if you aren't a cheater and think you will never cheat or never have been cheated on then there isn't really any reason for you to understand stand or question a behavior that is so "far from you".... Why do people do it? You've seen the answers aka excuses....a person can reason their way into or out of anything.....I think it's more simple than that....(I think I have had an epiphany)....in the Christian and secular world there are things considered wrong or immoral.....EVERYONE sins or does immoral things EVERYDAY....we lie, we overeat, we don't pay a bill on time, we speed (I have got to get a grip on that one! ), we gossip, we say hurtful things and many other things......cheating is immoral and a sin....the results are more harmful than some of the other sins or immoral things I've mentioned...however, what I'm trying to say is EVERYONE is faced with doing what's right and wrong and at times we choose to do what's wrong....it's the same way for those that cheat (but the results and damage can be worse than other sins)....there is a time where they are faced to do what's right or what's wrong, they choose to do what's wrong. It's a conscious decision made by an adult with another adult, you can trace a childhood problem or a disorder but it's really just as basic as any other bad decision. We should want to do what's right. We shouldn't break promises and vows or hurt our spouses, children, family and friends but human beings aren't perfect and they hurt people, terribly in many other ways than cheating. It's been going on since the beginning of time and will go on till time ends.... All of you that decide to never cheat, I hope you don't but you will do things that are morally wrong and it will hurt people and perhaps even damage lives......I wish I could take back what I've done, I too never dreamed and said I'd never cheat (I didn't even have a desire to) and when I was cheated on, for a while, I was even more inclined to swear I'd never do that because I would never want to make a woman feel like I did....I had all kinds of resolve.....never even day dreamed about making love to anyone besides my husband.....then after 16 yrs.....I chose the wrong thing....I will probably regret the results for the rest of my life...... However, I think we should all pray to stay strong about ANY sin....not just cheating!!
Olivia_19742004 Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 I'm not claiming that we can't help ourselves but that we don't want to help ourselves. We allow our genes to supersede our judgment and participate in activities that we know on a conscious level are wrong but allow our biological makeup to take over. In this I'm referring once again to our need for survival. We are still programmed to strive for immortality and in that, we strive for procreation. Regardless, of whether or not we are actually having children, mating is the means for procreation. It still doesn't make much sense to me that Dawkins would completely contradict his work by stating that our genes don't have an impact on our choices.
unluckylady Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 Originally posted by thecake "I'd rather be the one he's cheating with than the one he's cheating on - at least I know what's going on." I think some women are too scared to have a real relationship because they honestly think all men will cheat at some point....so they're kind of trying to beat the system....they're proving to themselves that yes a married man will cheat on his wife with me...what's the point of marriage? Quite frankly, (from what I hear ) you get the best of a married man when he cheats - no talk about the bills, kids, yard work, in-laws, etc...it's usually just good times. I think there are a million reasons why people have affairs therefore why try to understand it? And, never say never....there are a ton of people who "think" they would never have an affair or become involved with a married person and wake up one day to find out they're right in the middle of it. I couldn't agree more. Part of me thinks that right now I'm not ready for a "real relationship," but I do want a guy, and not with any of the bad stuff that comes attached...so, somehow, I ended up as the OW. I never thought I'd be in this situation, but here I am...
Kizzyfur Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 Wellll.... My beaus soon-to-be-ex-wife cheated on him because he wasn't giving her the attention she wanted from him. Is what she says. He sobered up and realized what everyone had been telling him about his wife since they met was true. Is what he says. Yes, he is divorcing her.
moimeme Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 In this I'm referring once again to our need for survival. We are still programmed to strive for immortality and in that, we strive for procreation. Regardless, of whether or not we are actually having children, mating is the means for procreation. If that were true, then we'd all cheat. If that were true, the failure to cheat should have been bred out of us by now, in fact. And nothing says that 'procreation' isn't attainable with our own spouses. Women would release several eggs so they could be fertilized by different men (like cats). But finally, we would not have functioning intellect to say 'yes, I'm horny for X, but I will wound my beloved deeply if I go screw X so therefore I will not do it'. Dawkins didn't negate his own evidence or 'completely contradict' his work. He said, if I recall correctly, that there is an impetus from the genes, but we have choice over them. I think he'd be quite upset with people who use his work to excuse themselves for bad behaviour.
Kizzyfur Posted July 25, 2004 Posted July 25, 2004 I didn't get involved with my MM till he told his wife he wanted a divorce because he's tired of being taken for granted and treated like ****. On top of that, he can literally answer "yes" to every question on the following site: http://www.dvirc.org.au/whenlove/checklisttxt.htm
bigboydsgirl Posted July 25, 2004 Posted July 25, 2004 well i guess i was the other woman but i didnt knw that this uy was married until one day his wife answered the cell.I was mad,he didnt ever call back.I feel that way,how could u live with yourself?Even with me not knowing that he was married istill feel guilty about the whole thing.I knw that the woman was hurt to knw her husband was fooling around and with a girl so much younger them him.I just put myself in their shoes and say how would i feel if my husband was running out on me,coming in late,smelling like sex.When u think about all da drama u put them through and he heartache u wouldnt want to destroy something like that.But hey every human is different maybe the like the risky life?I still think about him and think about if i had just not called that day and not found out but everything would have came out sooner or later.Being the other woman is not good why should i suffer being that when i can have a man of my own!
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