Is It Worth It To Push For Monogamy?

[Leigh 87]

Generally, I don't think it's impossible to find a guy who can be monogamous. I'd say it might be best found in a guy who isn't even into sex that much, period. I know that sounds kind of a dreary thing to say, but I don't mean some sexless guy. Just one who clearly is more about companionship than he is about sex. And those men do exist. They're into a meeting of the minds somehow and will cultivate a lot of mental connection. They still have sex, too, but just not as much as other men. This may work for me because even though I like sex a lot (especially at first), I'm not a sex fiend. I definitely start to slow down in how much I want sex as time together wears on. (It never falls less than once or twice a week, though).

 

 

 

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh.

 

Okay, so my boyfriends friend is like that; he has a model he is dating. He really likes her, but when he is with Andrew and I, he says things like " so Leigh, got any hot friends/ lady friends you can invite over to play poker with us tonight? He is half serious and would like it if I did, but is cool if O don't also. He the goes through my phone to check out the new chicks that are in my course I am studying for.

 

Where as my boyfriend enjoys sex, enjoys looking and fit chicks ( he loves fit girls, hence his attraction and appreciation for my slim/fit figure). But he will not act like this friend. As much as he loves sex, he does not go around asking to hang out with girls? It is just his mates, or me. I am the " girl" he wants to hang with. If that makes sense?

 

.... My bf loves sex when he has it, but he says that he wants a best friend, where the bond and time spend together is AS important as the sex.

I was really taken aback at first, that he puported to LOVE sex, yet not want it all the time after the initial newness had worn off........

That is why I have faith that my partner will not cheat; he is really passionate about life and about the companionship he has between a partner.

He was the same with his last partner ( he liked that they were best friends, who happened to have sex and romantic feelings). So I hope it is realistic for him to be faithfull.

 

And also - my partner said it is WAY more logical to dump a girl if youw ant to cheat; so they can find a girl who does it for them, so as to make them NOT want to cheat.

WHy be with a girl if she is not enough for you, so you need other girls?

[AlexCross]

To sum up all this mullarky about all men cheat yadda yadda yadda because of better looking options I will make this analogy.

 

Person goes on a diet to lose weight. They go to a restaurant. They look at the menu. They see something way better on the menu that is fattening and not good for their diet, although they want to order it, they don't, instead they keep their resolve and stick to the healthier option to lose weight. There is nothing wrong reading the menu and not ordering. It is like window shopping, you see something you cannot afford but you look at it anyway because if you bought it, you would be in financial straights.

 

In relationship terms. It is human nature for others to attracted to others even while in a relationship. How you react and act upon it is the million dollar question. This is not gender specific.

[verhrzn]

All right, since lots of people are playing arm chair psychologists, let's really delve into my psyche and explain why I am more inclined towards allowing the guy I date to sleep around. Maybe a really thorough, long explanation will clear up some misunderstandings.

 

I have a very difficult time understanding social dynamics. I am a little Vulcan in that way; the complexity of human interactions escape me. I am CONSTANTLY worrying and agonizing over the idea that I am acting incorrectly; that I am annoying someone, or pissing someone off, or giving them the wrong impression, or making them feel bad, or snubbing them, or why didn't they invite me, or why DID they invite me... on and on. I'm even on anxiety medication, and it's still mentally exhausting.

 

Due to this social anxiety, I place a high premium on blunt honesty. I have a friend who is very blunt and very obvious about her emotions and thoughts. From an outside perspective, some people might say she's not a very good friend. When I annoy her, she lets me know in very blunt, not-always-nice terms. She is nakedly obvious about wanting favors (she wants you to drive so she can save on gas, for example.)

 

I know a friendship like hers would not work for a lot of people. But it works for me because I never have to wonder what's going on in her head. I KNOW. I know that topics A, B, and C annoy her. I know topics D and E are safe. I know she talks about me behind my back. I know she kinda likes me, but also kinda doesn't.

 

I know exactly where I stand with her. Where I stand is not always pleasant (she thinks I'm whiny and annoying if I venture into topic A), but I don't feel any social anxiety around her because I know exactly how to act and exactly what to expect.

 

So what does that look like in a romantic context? I think a good example is the guy I'm currently dating. He used to tell me that I was the "most beautiful woman in the world." Now, a lot of women would find that sweet and endearing. I did not. There is no way, NO WAY, I am the most beautiful woman in the world, even to him. While other women might feel treasured, I felt lied to. Because it WAS a lie... a romantic lie, but nonetheless a lie. And in my anxiety brain, it made me think," This is a lie. What else does he lie about? How can I ever trust his compliments if they're not totally genuine?"

 

Far more preferable is for him to say," I find you attractive." That is believable, that is realistic. I think I am very atypical in this way.... I am pragmatic, instead of romantic.

 

How this leads me to the open relationship: I know I am not my boyfriend's preferred body type. From porn, from his exes, from the girls he looks at on the street.... He likes em waifish, with long hair and kind of a Bohemian style. I know you can still be attracted to other types, but the fact still is I'm not his ideal.

 

I also know, given our history, that he has a tendency to be susceptible to flattery and flirting from beautiful women. He's never cheated, but the ego validation is something he really enjoys, maybe even craves. He walks around like a proud peacock when he gets it.

 

These things... the ego validation, the hot body.... are things I cannot give him. I cannot fulfill all of his needs. And it fills my brain with anxiety and what-ifs. What if the flirting leads to more? What if he starts missing his ideal? What if he is unhappy because some of his needs are not being met?

 

An open relationship seemed a good way to both get all of his needs met AND settle my anxiety. The needs thing is obvious: he could get the good emotional connection of a relationship, but still get some ego validation, sexual variety and sleep with girls he finds ultimately attractive.

 

The anxiety is the tougher part for others to wrap their heads around. Much like my friendship, I have a much better time dealing with "unpleasant" realities than what-ifs. I would rather KNOW everyone hated me, than SUSPECT everyone hated me. So, I would rather KNOW my boyfriends wants to/is sleeping with someone else, than SUSPECT it.

 

The what-ifs drive me crazy. The anxiety around the idea that I don't know what in my guy's head is so stressful. What if he sees someone attractive, what if he gets a crush on someone else, what if what if what if.

 

Having an open relationship means I KNOW what would happen. He could be completely upfront and honest about his desire to sleep with someone else, and if he does it. It would remove the "what ifs."

 

Now, he could just be honest about his desire to sleep with someone else without actually doing it. But that would still ping my anxiety, because WHAT IF HE DOES IT. What if he can't resist temptation, etc. Essentially, it's me trying to turn a possibility into a certainty, because I deal a lot better with certainties.

 

SO! Now knowing my psyche better, does my predicament make more sense?

[Mme. Chaucer]

rosebanks123- yes it is normal for men to think about other women and become attracted to them.

The thing about wanting a long term bond, is if you really want this bond for the rest of your lives, the idea is that you stick to each other, which in turn, makes your bond stronger.

 

Let's just keep it simpler than that. People (INCLUDING GUYS!!!) are highly capable of choosing monogamy for relationships that ARE NOT aimed towards "the rest of your lives." It happens all the time.

 

Men are visually attracted to women - SO FREAKING WHAT. There are many benefits to many men to having a monogamous relationship. All the men who are in them are not simply browbeaten into monogamy by their frying-pan-wielding fishwife of a girlfriend, or pathetically submitting to the mores of society. Plenty of them do it because THAT IS WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO.

 

Recognizing temptations and walking by is a skill that most of us learn as we grow up.

 

If a man is reasonably mature and an honest person, he will be making a conscious choice between monogamy and playing the field. If sexual variety is crucial to his happiness, he can choose to be in an open relationship.

 

All of this attempt to CONTROL a man because of fear that he might follow his attraction and stray … even the thought of it, much less this obsessive determination about it … is death to a relationship. It has NOTHING to do with what the man involved might do or wants to do at all.

[Mme. Chaucer]

All right, since lots of people are playing arm chair psychologists, let's really delve into my psyche and explain why I am more inclined towards allowing the guy I date to sleep around.

 

Regardless of your psyche, all you need to "allow" the guy you date to do is to make his own choice about whether he wants to play the field, or be in a monogamous relationship.

 

And YOU do the same.

 

And YOU have to decide whether this is a trustworthy guy.

 

That's all.

[AlexCross]

All right, since lots of people are playing arm chair psychologists, let's really delve into my psyche and explain why I am more inclined towards allowing the guy I date to sleep around. Maybe a really thorough, long explanation will clear up some misunderstandings.

 

I have a very difficult time understanding social dynamics. I am a little Vulcan in that way; the complexity of human interactions escape me. I am CONSTANTLY worrying and agonizing over the idea that I am acting incorrectly; that I am annoying someone, or pissing someone off, or giving them the wrong impression, or making them feel bad, or snubbing them, or why didn't they invite me, or why DID they invite me... on and on. I'm even on anxiety medication, and it's still mentally exhausting.

 

Due to this social anxiety, I place a high premium on blunt honesty. I have a friend who is very blunt and very obvious about her emotions and thoughts. From an outside perspective, some people might say she's not a very good friend. When I annoy her, she lets me know in very blunt, not-always-nice terms. She is nakedly obvious about wanting favors (she wants you to drive so she can save on gas, for example.)

 

I know a friendship like hers would not work for a lot of people. But it works for me because I never have to wonder what's going on in her head. I KNOW. I know that topics A, B, and C annoy her. I know topics D and E are safe. I know she talks about me behind my back. I know she kinda likes me, but also kinda doesn't.

 

I know exactly where I stand with her. Where I stand is not always pleasant (she thinks I'm whiny and annoying if I venture into topic A), but I don't feel any social anxiety around her because I know exactly how to act and exactly what to expect.

 

So what does that look like in a romantic context? I think a good example is the guy I'm currently dating. He used to tell me that I was the "most beautiful woman in the world." Now, a lot of women would find that sweet and endearing. I did not. There is no way, NO WAY, I am the most beautiful woman in the world, even to him. While other women might feel treasured, I felt lied to. Because it WAS a lie... a romantic lie, but nonetheless a lie. And in my anxiety brain, it made me think," This is a lie. What else does he lie about? How can I ever trust his compliments if they're not totally genuine?"

 

Far more preferable is for him to say," I find you attractive." That is believable, that is realistic. I think I am very atypical in this way.... I am pragmatic, instead of romantic.

 

How this leads me to the open relationship: I know I am not my boyfriend's preferred body type. From porn, from his exes, from the girls he looks at on the street.... He likes em waifish, with long hair and kind of a Bohemian style. I know you can still be attracted to other types, but the fact still is I'm not his ideal.

 

I also know, given our history, that he has a tendency to be susceptible to flattery and flirting from beautiful women. He's never cheated, but the ego validation is something he really enjoys, maybe even craves. He walks around like a proud peacock when he gets it.

 

These things... the ego validation, the hot body.... are things I cannot give him. I cannot fulfill all of his needs. And it fills my brain with anxiety and what-ifs. What if the flirting leads to more? What if he starts missing his ideal? What if he is unhappy because some of his needs are not being met?

 

An open relationship seemed a good way to both get all of his needs met AND settle my anxiety. The needs thing is obvious: he could get the good emotional connection of a relationship, but still get some ego validation, sexual variety and sleep with girls he finds ultimately attractive.

 

The anxiety is the tougher part for others to wrap their heads around. Much like my friendship, I have a much better time dealing with "unpleasant" realities than what-ifs. I would rather KNOW everyone hated me, than SUSPECT everyone hated me. So, I would rather KNOW my boyfriends wants to/is sleeping with someone else, than SUSPECT it.

 

The what-ifs drive me crazy. The anxiety around the idea that I don't know what in my guy's head is so stressful. What if he sees someone attractive, what if he gets a crush on someone else, what if what if what if.

 

Having an open relationship means I KNOW what would happen. He could be completely upfront and honest about his desire to sleep with someone else, and if he does it. It would remove the "what ifs."

 

Now, he could just be honest about his desire to sleep with someone else without actually doing it. But that would still ping my anxiety, because WHAT IF HE DOES IT. What if he can't resist temptation, etc. Essentially, it's me trying to turn a possibility into a certainty, because I deal a lot better with certainties.

 

SO! Now knowing my psyche better, does my predicament make more sense?

 

It takes a lot fo courage to come on here and admit your issues, I really applaud you. And I am not an arm chair psychiatrist, just someone who has been in your shoes. I cant really relate to social anxiety but I understand that 100%. But let me ask you this. Do you think you are emotionally available to be in a relationship? I am not saying this to demean or denegrate your situation. But because you have these issues you think an open relationship will solve all of your problems? No disrespect V I think you need to take some time off and fix yourself, in every sense of the word.

[verhrzn]

Regardless of your psyche, all you need to "allow" the guy you date to do is to make his own choice about whether he wants to play the field, or be in a monogamous relationship.

 

And YOU do the same.

 

And YOU have to decide whether this is a trustworthy guy.

 

That's all.

 

Or try to head off potential problems at the pass.

 

Let's say your guy has a tendency to get in a little deep when he gambles. But he isn't always aware of it, because it's not bad enough to be a life-altering problem. Wouldn't you sit him down and try to come up with strategies for avoiding him getting in too deep?

 

The guy I'm dating has a tendency to fall for flirting and ego validation. An open relationship seems like a good way to have everything be above-board. Again, it isn't that he cheats.... but the uncertainty around the flirting really, really gets to me.

 

If not an open relationship, how would you suggest heading off such a potential issue?

 

It takes a lot fo courage to come on here and admit your issues, I really applaud you. And I am not an arm chair psychiatrist, just someone who has been in your shoes. I cant really relate to social anxiety but I understand that 100%. But let me ask you this. Do you think you are emotionally available to be in a relationship? I am not saying this to demean or denegrate your situation. But because you have these issues you think an open relationship will solve all of your problems? No disrespect V I think you need to take some time off and fix yourself, in every sense of the word.

 

It has nothing to do with "fixing" myself. I have spent years trying to fix myself, and ya know what, I think I've just gotten to a point where I say "Screw it, this is who I am." People are flawed, including me. People have issues. I say in the grand scheme of things, my issues are really no worse than anyone else's.

 

Taking "time off" to fix myself would be denying myself a relationship until I'm perfect. I have spent years reading books, going to therapy, trying to track down every avenue to "be better." And none of it has worked. At this point, I am sick of trying.

Edited September 13, 2012 by verhrzn

[denise_xo]

If not an open relationship, how would you suggest heading off such a potential issue?

 

In the context of a relationship discussion: 'I have noticed that you have a tendency to fall for flirting and ego validation. I wanted to ask you whether you are aware of this yourself, because I am worried it can pose a thread to our relationship, especially because I have doubts that I am the kind of woman you would like to spend your life with. This makes me feel insecure. Can we have an honest talk about this?'

 

I appreciate what you are saying about wanting and needing a high level of security. But especially if your bf isn't interested in an open relationship, you would need to somehow reach that level of security by other means. Perhaps expanding and building honesty and openness between the two of you could be an alternative route. As a long term strategy this requires, as Mme C said, that you need to make a basic decision on whether you consider him a trustworthy guy.

[AlexCross]

So instead of trying. You are going to resort to being in an open relationship which in my opinion is not healthy, expose yourself to potential STD's from your boyfriend, not all condoms can protect against skin on skin contact STD's. I really think you are better then this. You already are quitting but I wish you the best of luck.

[denise_xo]

sorry threat not thread

[mesmerized]

You seem to want to have a relationship no matter what its price is. Why do you need a relationship so much? Is your own company really that miserable? And if yes, how do you expect someone else to enjoy your company???

[verhrzn]

In the context of a relationship discussion: 'I have noticed that you have a tendency to fall for flirting and ego validation. I wanted to ask you whether you are aware of this yourself, because I am worried it can pose a thread to our relationship, especially because I have doubts that I am the kind of woman you would like to spend your life with. This makes me feel insecure. Can we have an honest talk about this?'

 

I appreciate what you are saying about wanting and needing a high level of security. But especially if your bf isn't interested in an open relationship, you would need to somehow reach that level of security by other means. Perhaps expanding and building honesty and openness between the two of you could be an alternative route. As a long term strategy this requires, as Mme C said, that you need to make a basic decision on whether you consider him a trustworthy guy.

 

I don't consider anyone trustworthy. Not even myself. Way, way too many psychological studies show that we are still somewhat rules by our subconscious, that we are not always honest with ourselves, that we have blinders on about our own flaws... I think that is true for EVERYone. And the most upstanding people can sometimes be the very same ones who give in to temptation. If you are convinced YOU will never be one of those people.... there's a very good chance you WILL end up being one of those people, simply by the sake of being so sure you wouldn't do it that you don't guard against it.

 

Let me put it another way. A guy knows he'd NEVER cheat. So he goes out for drinks with a cute coworker. Yeah, she's cute, but he loves his wife, he would NEVER cheat. So he has a drink, and then they're sort of flirting... but it's okay, because he'd never cheat. Before you know it, there's a kiss, and then there's more.

 

Is it because the guy wasn't trustworthy? No, it's because he was so assured of his own trustworthiness he didn't even consider cheating as an option, and so didn't look out for danger signs, and he's already down the road before he knows it.

 

Now the obvious answer to that scenario is for the guy to never go anywhere near something that might tempt him... no drinks with coworkers, no female friends. But I find such restrictions exhausting and dishonest.

 

I dunno. I guess I just have a more cynical view of human nature, but I always believe it's better to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[AlexCross]

You seem to want to have a relationship no matter what its price is. Why do you need a relationship so much? Is your own company really that miserable? And if yes, how do you expect someone else to enjoy your company???

 

That is why I suggested she take time off, try and fix her issues which would give her a not so negative outlook on dating, life. Short of having a life threatening disease or anything similar, ANYTHING in life an be changed if you have the WANT, DESIRE, and DETERMINATION. It is about overcoming in adversity. Some of her issues are not finite. They can be changed.

[verhrzn]

You seem to want to have a relationship no matter what its price is. Why do you need a relationship so much? Is your own company really that miserable? And if yes, how do you expect someone else to enjoy your company???

 

Why does anyone want a relationship? To build a life, to have a companion... because they're lonely, because they want intimacy, because they want someone to share the burden of life.

 

I've been single most of my life. It's just not something I want. Why is that such an awful thing?

 

And I disagree; I don't take a relationship whatever the price. I have to like the guy.

[AlexCross]

Why does anyone want a relationship? To build a life, to have a companion... because they're lonely, because they want intimacy, because they want someone to share the burden of life.

 

I've been single most of my life. It's just not something I want. Why is that such an awful thing?

 

And I disagree; I don't take a relationship whatever the price. I have to like the guy.

 

How are you going to have a healthy relationship with your cynical views, and your negative comments about yourself which are NOT fact. You can want to be in a relationship, and are entitled to your feelings of lonlyness but your building your own demise by getting into these relationships when you really shouldn't be in one.

[verhrzn]

How are you going to have a healthy relationship with your cynical views, and your negative comments about yourself which are NOT fact. You can want to be in a relationship, and are entitled to your feelings of lonlyness but your building your own demise by getting into these relationships when you really shouldn't be in one.

 

They are NOT negative! Jesus Christ. They are simply observations made from evidence gathered over my lifetime.

 

If a 300 pound, 5'3" person called themselves fat, would you tell them they are being negative?? NO. They are simply describing themselves. "Fat" IS an accurate description of their body.

 

"Fat" and "ugly" are only negative if you attach negative connotations to them, if you assume that a person's value is entirely derived from their attractiveness.

 

We describe things as ugly. We describe things as fat. They are just words. They are just descriptors. By saying I am fat, or ugly, I am not saying I have no value as a human being. I might have lowered value IN DATING, because of the way other people PERCEIVE fat or ugly people.

 

But calling myself fat and ugly is NOT putting myself down. It's merely repeating what other people have called me. It's simply describing other people's perception of me. I am simply being realistic about my appearance.

[denise_xo]

I don't consider anyone trustworthy. Not even myself. Way, way too many psychological studies show that we are still somewhat rules by our subconscious, that we are not always honest with ourselves, that we have blinders on about our own flaws... I think that is true for EVERYone. And the most upstanding people can sometimes be the very same ones who give in to temptation. If you are convinced YOU will never be one of those people.... there's a very good chance you WILL end up being one of those people, simply by the sake of being so sure you wouldn't do it that you don't guard against it.

 

Let me put it another way. A guy knows he'd NEVER cheat. So he goes out for drinks with a cute coworker. Yeah, she's cute, but he loves his wife, he would NEVER cheat. So he has a drink, and then they're sort of flirting... but it's okay, because he'd never cheat. Before you know it, there's a kiss, and then there's more.

 

Is it because the guy wasn't trustworthy? No, it's because he was so assured of his own trustworthiness he didn't even consider cheating as an option, and so didn't look out for danger signs, and he's already down the road before he knows it.

 

Now the obvious answer to that scenario is for the guy to never go anywhere near something that might tempt him... no drinks with coworkers, no female friends. But I find such restrictions exhausting and dishonest.

 

I dunno. I guess I just have a more cynical view of human nature, but I always believe it's better to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

I don't think you have a cynical view of human nature, but I do think you have a very partial view, and I think you take on absolutist perspectives where you consistently refuse to engage with any thought that requires you to see a situation as emergent and not fully controllable. I would imagine relates to what you said in your former post about needing security.

 

To take your example of being trustworthy. I don't walk around with absolutist ideas about myself, or about human nature. What you need, IMO, when you are faced with human beings, are scales. My H is one of the most trustworthy people I know. Does it mean that I completely rule out the possibility that he would ever cheat? Of course not. I also know that he has felt attraction to someone else before, because he told me. But I do place him at a point on the trustworthy scale where I consider him solid relationship material. The rest of it is day to day, nitty gritty relationship work - that stuff of nurturing a relationship, setting boundaries, having quality time together, building a relationship dynamic where you both know that, if one day either of you would feel tempted, you could be able to have a discussion about it and potentially work it out. All of that requires a basic sense of trust, which is sufficient to keep building a relationship. If you have zero trust in nobody, then I don't think being in a relationship is for you. If you can imagine the concept of a scale, then perhaps you can try to explore where on that scale you would need a man to be for it to have a chance of working for you. But if you have already made your mind up that this is impossible, then there's really nothing any man can do in order to win your trust. That's on you, not them.

 

You keep reverting to stats and generalities and while those are useful for informing your life, at the end of the day you are not relating to all men in the universe, you are relating to the particular man in front of you, and the particular relationship dynamics you are in. I notice that when people provide you particular advice, you are often quick to revert the conversation back to generalities. Now, you can discuss those generalities as much as you want, but unless you bring that down to the level of your bf (not a random statistical version of man), and your particular relationship (rather than a statistically calculated relationship), you won't really move forward.

[Art_Critic]

But calling myself fat and ugly is NOT putting myself down.

 

It is a self protection mechanism... and yes it is belittling yourself.

 

Self-deprecation is defined as:

 

The disparagement of one’s own abilities; [1]

 

communication that expresses something negative about its originator; making negative statements regarding one’s own appearance or abilities, such as saying “I’m so fat” or “I’m such an idiot”; [2]

 

expressing disapproval or being critical of oneself. [3]

 

 

Self-Deprecation « Personality & Spirituality

 

It is something you need to look into and figure out what you fear and why you do it.

[AlexCross]

They are NOT negative! Jesus Christ. They are simply observations made from evidence gathered over my lifetime.

 

If a 300 pound, 5'3" person called themselves fat, would you tell them they are being negative?? NO. They are simply describing themselves. "Fat" IS an accurate description of their body.

 

"Fat" and "ugly" are only negative if you attach negative connotations to them, if you assume that a person's value is entirely derived from their attractiveness.

 

We describe things as ugly. We describe things as fat. They are just words. They are just descriptors. By saying I am fat, or ugly, I am not saying I have no value as a human being. I might have lowered value IN DATING, because of the way other people PERCEIVE fat or ugly people.

 

But calling myself fat and ugly is NOT putting myself down. It's merely repeating what other people have called me. It's simply describing other people's perception of me. I am simply being realistic about my appearance.

 

You are concentrating too much on peoples perception of you and not how you perceive yourself. And yeah, calling yourself ugly is putting yourself down.

[Ruby Slippers]

My boyfriend is attractive and desirable to most women, and he wants a monogamous relationship with one woman. I'm pretty sure he could easily have multiple girlfriends or sex partners if that's what he wanted.

 

So they are out there.

 

I've considered your line of thinking before (open relationship), but I know that's not what I want. So I've held out for a guy who shares my views on love and monogamy. And I'm glad about that.

[verhrzn]

I don't think you have a cynical view of human nature, but I do think you have a very partial view, and I think you take on absolutist perspectives where you consistently refuse to engage with any thought that requires you to see a situation as emergent and not fully controllable. I would imagine relates to what you said in your former post about needing security.

 

To take your example of being trustworthy. I don't walk around with absolutist ideas about myself, or about human nature. What you need, IMO, when you are faced with human beings, are scales. My H is one of the most trustworthy people I know. Does it mean that I completely rule out the possibility that he would ever cheat? Of course not. I also know that he has felt attraction to someone else before, because he told me. But I do place him at a point on the trustworthy scale where I consider him solid relationship material. The rest of it is day to day, nitty gritty relationship work - that stuff of nurturing a relationship, setting boundaries, having quality time together, building a relationship dynamic where you both know that, if one day either of you would feel tempted, you could be able to have a discussion about it and potentially work it out. All of that requires a basic sense of trust, which is sufficient to keep building a relationship. If you have zero trust in nobody, then I don't think being in a relationship is for you. If you can imagine the concept of a scale, then perhaps you can try to explore where on that scale you would need a man to be for it to have a chance of working for you. But if you have already made your mind up that this is impossible, then there's really nothing any man can do in order to win your trust. That's on you, not them.

 

You keep reverting to stats and generalities and while those are useful for informing your life, at the end of the day you are not relating to all men in the universe, you are relating to the particular man in front of you, and the particular relationship dynamics you are in. I notice that when people provide you particular advice, you are often quick to revert the conversation back to generalities. Now, you can discuss those generalities as much as you want, but unless you bring that down to the level of your bf (not a random statistical version of man), and your particular relationship (rather than a statistically calculated relationship), you won't really move forward.

 

Yes, I like dealing in certainties with personal relationships, I'd say that's accurate. I can't comprehend nor understand the complexity required for scales... just doesn't seem to be in my make-up.

 

And if what you're saying is that means I never get to have a relationship, instead of trying to work around it, well, doesn't that suck for me then.

 

I'm so glad everyone on this board is so desperate to see me single and alone.

[verhrzn]

You are concentrating too much on peoples perception of you and not how you perceive yourself. And yeah, calling yourself ugly is putting yourself down.

 

Why does my perception of me matter?? I am not dating me. I am not in a world of Me's. I am in a world of other people. Other people's perception of me is what makes them want to be my friend/date me/give me a job, whatever. Thus, THEIR perception is what matters in those realms.

 

Society and men think I am ugly, thus, I describe myself as ugly. If I described myself as green, because I see myself as green, you people would think I was delusional.

 

So make up your damn minds. Men HATE it when fat women call themselves "curvy" on dating sites, because goddamn it, don't they know they're fat? And now, because I am agreeing," Yep I am fat, not curvy," that means I have low self-esteem? F*cking hell, just really can't win with people can you??

[AlexCross]

Yes, I like dealing in certainties with personal relationships, I'd say that's accurate. I can't comprehend nor understand the complexity required for scales... just doesn't seem to be in my make-up.

 

And if what you're saying is that means I never get to have a relationship, instead of trying to work around it, well, doesn't that suck for me then.

 

I'm so glad everyone on this board is so desperate to see me single and alone.

 

Quite the opposite. I would like to see you happy with yourself living in your own skin in a healthy relationship but i cannot change your views on how you view yourself.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yes, I like dealing in certainties with personal relationships, I'd say that's accurate. I can't comprehend nor understand the complexity required for scales... just doesn't seem to be in my make-up.

 

And if what you're saying is that means I never get to have a relationship, instead of trying to work around it, well, doesn't that suck for me then.

 

I'm so glad everyone on this board is so desperate to see me single and alone.

 

Oh goodness, stop behaving like a petulant child V. No one here wants to see you single and alone. Alot of people here want you to be in the kind of relationship YOU really want to be in. But you are at war with yourself. Not this board. You are afraid to demand what you really want because you are afraid of being alone. That's not a great way to approach picking a mate.

[denise_xo]

Yes, I like dealing in certainties with personal relationships, I'd say that's accurate. I can't comprehend nor understand the complexity required for scales... just doesn't seem to be in my make-up.

 

And if what you're saying is that means I never get to have a relationship, instead of trying to work around it, well, doesn't that suck for me then.

 

I'm so glad everyone on this board is so desperate to see me single and alone.

 

V. I have consistently been trying to offer perspectives on your situation with the intent of trying to be constructive. But since you think I'm just participating in this thread because I'm desperate to see you single and alone, I think I'll make my way out for now.