ThaWholigan Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Ugh The backwards logic in here is stinking out the forum.... So, basically, because a man has an unconscious sexual attraction to another woman, whatever capacity she is available to him, yet he chooses to abstain because he loves his SO - that means that he is innately polygamous and therefore isn't in love with his wife and actively wants to have sex with other women? And don't even act like women don't do this, because I'm sure the same way you can say that "ehh, most men want to sex other women", I bet most women have also had an unconscious attraction to a man other than their SO at the time of a relationship. Disgusting hypocrisy in here
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 what that means is that you WANTED to have sex with others, but didn't go through because you didnt want to risk rekindling the relationship with your ex Is it so offensive to feel desire for others? Monogamy is choosing not to act on those desires, because the primary relationship is very much WORTH IT. 5
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Ugh The backwards logic in here is stinking out the forum.... So, basically, because a man has an unconscious sexual attraction to another woman, whatever capacity she is available to him, yet he chooses to abstain because he loves his SO - that means that he is innately polygamous and therefore isn't in love with his wife and actively wants to have sex with other women? And don't even act like women don't do this, because I'm sure the same way you can say that "ehh, most men want to sex other women", I bet most women have also had an unconscious attraction to a man other than their SO at the time of a relationship. Disgusting hypocrisy in here Is it hypocrisy of men themselves confirm it? Men here, on Savage Love, on PUA sites.... men who have sex with multiple women are "players" but girls are "sluts"... men have a "natural urge" to spread their seed and women seek "good providers." Men have an attraction to younger women because they need "healthy" offspring. Science journals and historic records are FULL of justifications for men having sex with someone other than their spouse. And again, I don't see wanting to have sex with other women as meaning he isn't in love with his wife. You can be in love with someone and still want to have sex with someone else. Thus why I advocate an open relationship instead of flat-out dumping someone. Best of both worlds. 1
Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Where's Leigh when you need her? OP, have you ever stopped to think OTHER WOMEN might not want to sleep with a man who is committed to you? So, by your logic, if he comes across someone hotter, for him to sleep with her, he STILL has to dump you. See, even in a world where love doesn't exist, your 'solution' doesn't work. 1
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Is it hypocrisy of men themselves confirm it? Men here, on Savage Love, on PUA sites.... men who have sex with multiple women are "players" but girls are "sluts"... men have a "natural urge" to spread their seed and women seek "good providers." Men have an attraction to younger women because they need "healthy" offspring. Science journals and historic records are FULL of justifications for men having sex with someone other than their spouse. And again, I don't see wanting to have sex with other women as meaning he isn't in love with his wife. You can be in love with someone and still want to have sex with someone else. Thus why I advocate an open relationship instead of flat-out dumping someone. Best of both worlds. Then just go ahead. What's stopping you? 3
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 IAnd again, I don't see wanting to have sex with other women as meaning he isn't in love with his wife. You can be in love with someone and still want to have sex with someone else. I agree. But it doesn't mean you necessarily have to have sex with someone else. I want to be a parent. I also want to sleep in until 10 am on weekends. Guess what? I had to choose! These are mutually exclusive. I chose parenting, and I am happy with my choice. Thus why I advocate an open relationship instead of flat-out dumping someone. Best of both worlds. Open relationships work for some people. They also fail miserably for many others. Maybe you should post or read on a poly message board to get a better idea of how that works out, and what problems can arise.
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Seems there was an academic book written on this in which the author concluded the majority of men appear monogamous and love their partners, staying in relationships to sustain their emotional intimacy and connection, but happily cheat on the side for fun sex: Vicki Larson: Why Men Need To Cheat In his study of 120 undergraduate men, 78 percent of those who had a partner cheated, "even though they said that they loved and intended to stay with their partner." Contrary to what we may think, most men aren't cheating because they don't love their partner, he says; they cheat because they just want to have sex with others. 1
AlexCross Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Best of both worlds = cake eater which is totally contradicts everything you have written in your thread. Hyprocrisy at its finest. Post your journals, and scientific studies. I would love to see them. Where did they come from Cosmo ? It seems like you cannot have a healthy relationship because you yourself want an open relationship and cannot be monogomous. Edit: 120 men in a world full of billions. Bullox
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Best of both worlds = cake eater which is totally contradicts everything you have written in your thread. Hyprocrisy at its finest. Post your journals, and scientific studies. I would love to see them. Where did they come from Cosmo ? It seems like you cannot have a healthy relationship because you yourself want an open relationship and cannot be monogomous. Edit: 120 men in a world full of billions. Bullox But his point was not "see all men cheat!" His point was "These men are cheating but still choosing to stay with their partners." Cheating seems to rarely lead to the destruction of the relationship, unless it's discovered by the other partner.... which means this idea that love is what keeps a man from cheating, or that in a "good" relationship the man doesn't cheat.... isn't true. I have been monogamous in all my past relationships. All of my exes, were not. Why not just jump-start the process? 1
AlexCross Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 But his point was not "see all men cheat!" His point was "These men are cheating but still choosing to stay with their partners." Cheating seems to rarely lead to the destruction of the relationship, unless it's discovered by the other partner.... which means this idea that love is what keeps a man from cheating, or that in a "good" relationship the man doesn't cheat.... isn't true. I have been monogamous in all my past relationships. All of my exes, were not. Why not just jump-start the process? Yeah and whats your point. Women cheat too. I think you are way to paranoid about this monogomy thing. You have to take into consideration demographics, sociological factors, its a gray area. Don't be like our resident man hater and generalize a gender when the other gender has just as much to do with what you think is wrong.
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Yeah and whats your point. Women cheat too. I think you are way to paranoid about this monogomy thing. You have to take into consideration demographics, sociological factors, its a gray area. Don't be like our resident man hater and generalize a gender when the other gender has just as much to do with what you think is wrong. Okay, women cheat. Soooooo? It doesn't apply to me, since I am not dating women. I am dating men, and men cheat, or dump their partners when they find someone better. Which is what my past experiences have been. So I am trying to find a way to get a guy to stay with me, even when he finds someone else he wants to have sex with (which given my physical unattractiveness is very likely.) 1
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Is it hypocrisy of men themselves confirm it? Men here, on Savage Love, on PUA sites.... men who have sex with multiple women are "players" but girls are "sluts"... men have a "natural urge" to spread their seed and women seek "good providers." Men have an attraction to younger women because they need "healthy" offspring. Science journals and historic records are FULL of justifications for men having sex with someone other than their spouse. And again, I don't see wanting to have sex with other women as meaning he isn't in love with his wife. You can be in love with someone and still want to have sex with someone else. Thus why I advocate an open relationship instead of flat-out dumping someone. Best of both worlds. You make so many assumptions. Guess what, i've never had sex with a women younger then me. I prefer older women for many reasons. You can't paint all men with the same brush..... Like everyone is saying if you're convinced you want to do it, then do it. But you obviously don't if you think you have to prove it to yourself and everyone else. Maybe some guys want open relationships so they have a women to cook and clean, etc for them and so they can say "Hey i'm married" and then have sex with other women and when they feel like it have sex with their wife. Not saying that is true in all cases but how many women would be ok with this? I surely hope none. Or maybe that's why some people cheat?
AlexCross Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Okay, women cheat. Soooooo? It doesn't apply to me, since I am not dating women. I am dating men, and men cheat, or dump their partners when they find someone better. Which is what my past experiences have been. So I am trying to find a way to get a guy to stay with me, even when he finds someone else he wants to have sex with (which given my physical unattractiveness is very likely.) Well I spotted your problem and your not going to like my answer V.
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Best of both worlds = cake eater which is totally contradicts everything you have written in your thread. Hyprocrisy at its finest. Post your journals, and scientific studies. I would love to see them. Where did they come from Cosmo ? It seems like you cannot have a healthy relationship because you yourself want an open relationship and cannot be monogomous. Edit: 120 men in a world full of billions. Bullox College men at that..... Diverse study I must say! 1
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Well I spotted your problem and your not going to like my answer V. Yes, gee, whyever am I to blame for all my exes cheating on me and dumping me for better women? Oh, I bet it's because I'm fat! That's always a classic.
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Okay, women cheat. Soooooo? It doesn't apply to me, since I am not dating women. I am dating men, and men cheat, or dump their partners when they find someone better. Which is what my past experiences have been. So I am trying to find a way to get a guy to stay with me, even when he finds someone else he wants to have sex with (which given my physical unattractiveness is very likely.) But at the end of the day, even if you go for an open relationship, you still need to address the issue that the guy is going to have to want to stay with YOU. He could go around having sex with tons of different people while single. Or, he could be in a relationship with someone else while having sex with a third person, or whatever. So, there are some basic relationship dynamics that would need to apply to the two of you, whether a relationship is monogamous or open. Any thoughts on what those are? Also, have you thought about how you are going to implement this? Are you planning to tell him that you would like a mutually open relationship? Will you tell him the reasons that you have stated here? Will you want to be informed if/when he sleeps with someone else, or is it a don't tell policy? What would the agreement look like?
somedude81 Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Okay, women cheat. Soooooo? It doesn't apply to me, since I am not dating women. I am dating men, and men cheat, or dump their partners when they find someone better. Which is what my past experiences have been. So I am trying to find a way to get a guy to stay with me, even when he finds someone else he wants to have sex with (which given my physical unattractiveness is very likely.) I have been monogamous in all my past relationships. All of my exes, were not. Why not just jump-start the process? All of your exes cheated on you? That's got to suck. Have they cheated with previous girlfriends? Have you asked your current BF if he has cheated before? One more thing, that comment you made suggesting that he wants to bang his coworker, that was pretty rude. I'd be annoyed if my GF asked me if I wanted to sleep with somebody else. He told you that he is attracted to her, but won't sleep with her because he is committed to you; that should have been the end of the discussion right there. Continuing to pursue the matter is unattractive.
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 Also, have you thought about how you are going to implement this? Are you planning to tell him that you would like a mutually open relationship? Will you tell him the reasons that you have stated here? Will you want to be informed if/when he sleeps with someone else, or is it a don't tell policy? What would the agreement look like? It wouldn't be mutually open, because I have no desire to have sex with someone else. It'd be open just for him. And he'd need to tell me about it. And yes, I'd tell him the reasons. It'd just essentially be "Go have sex with who you want, and tell me about it."
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Yes, gee, whyever am I to blame for all my exes cheating on me and dumping me for better women? Oh, I bet it's because I'm fat! That's always a classic. Because you don't value yourself? My guess is that you attract guys that just want to use you, and that is why you get cheated on. Yes not everyone is a 10/10 in the looks department, but no matter what people with at least some confidence know there is people out there that will find them attractive and good looking. You'd be amazed at what self esteem can do to people. My ex's was awful when we first started going out from being cheated on, she though she was hideous looking, even though she would get hit on at her kids high school ALL the time and everyone telling her she is good looking. She though I was out of her league looks department, when in fact she is better looking then I am, or at least as good.
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 It wouldn't be mutually open, because I have no desire to have sex with someone else. It'd be open just for him. And he'd need to tell me about it. And yes, I'd tell him the reasons. It'd just essentially be "Go have sex with who you want, and tell me about it." Based on how you know him, how do you think he is going to respond to that?
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 It wouldn't be mutually open, because I have no desire to have sex with someone else. It'd be open just for him. And he'd need to tell me about it. And yes, I'd tell him the reasons. It'd just essentially be "Go have sex with who you want, and tell me about it." So what would happen if you wanted to have sex with him one night and he wanted to go have sex with someone else? What if he came home from having sex with someone else and said no to you when you wanted it. How do you think you're going to feel then?
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 All of your exes cheated on you? That's got to suck. Have they cheated with previous girlfriends? Have you asked your current BF if he has cheated before? One more thing, that comment you made suggesting that he wants to bang his coworker, that was pretty rude. I'd be annoyed if my GF asked me if I wanted to sleep with somebody else. He told you that he is attracted to her, but won't sleep with her because he is committed to you; that should have been the end of the discussion right there. Continuing to pursue the matter is unattractive. Why is it unattractive to bring up? Why is rude to state an obvious fact? Because honesty is just so very awful? If he is attracted to her, he should sleep with her. I really, really don't like the idea that he isn't JUST because of me. Because that line of thinking could easily evaporate with a few drinks, or during a fight, or if he needs a little ego boost... No, my exes did not cheat on previous girlfriends or girlfriends after me. Just me.
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Based on how you know him, how do you think he is going to respond to that? My guess is he thinks it's great, does it for a while then gets bored and dumps her. Or if he truly isn't the type to want something open, he will dump you on the spot of you suggesting that because it will kill his attraction for you if you're willing to let him sleep around.
Quiet Storm Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 To be honest, I don't think it's that rare for some women to accept that their men will cheat. And I don't think it always means you have low self esteem. I think this can come into play with older women who have diminished sex drives. They still want the man for emotional, financial and companionship...but are not jealous or offended if he gets his sexual needs met elsewhere. If they aren't interested in sex anymore anyways, it's one less obligation that they have to fill. Some women are socialized to accept that men want variety and will cheat. They usually don't want to hear or know about him cheating, because to them, the cheating isn't the disrespectful part. OPENLY cheating and parading her around town as your girlfriend is what feels disrespectful to them. This is common with sports star wives, like Vanessa Bryant. They know he cheats, but expect him to be discreet about it. Think Carmela Soprano. There are some cultures where this is a common thing. Women accept that their men will have mistresses, and are OK with it as long as she is treated as the queen. The mistresses know their place, knows the wife is #1 and respects that. It's not what I want for my marriage, but I'm not going to put women down for it.
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 It wouldn't be mutually open, because I have no desire to have sex with someone else. It'd be open just for him. And he'd need to tell me about it. And yes, I'd tell him the reasons. It'd just essentially be "Go have sex with who you want, and tell me about it." What if he didn't agree? What if he doesn't want an open relationship? What if he does want an open relationship, but doesn't want to tell you? Point being: you are going to have to have a discussion about it--a lot of discussions, actually. Open relationships typically require a ton of communication and flexibility, renegotiating as necessary. It isn't something that you can just thrust onto him--your rules, your way--and expect him to mindlessly agree to and follow as you laid it out. 2
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