how off limits are engaged women?

[AmericanGraffiti]

are you distant cousins?

 

yep.

 

story's the exact same, never met her before. On the fence whether it changes anything or just a weird detail.

 

FWIW i wanted insights into engaged women and how they act around men, whether they're closed off etc, everything i've written, before putting this layer in. Even though it might be irrelevant. Everyone i talked to immediately afterwards wasnt nearly as weirded out as i thought they'd be...

[Mrlonelyone]

That depends how distant? Are we talking second cousins or closer?

[Balzac]

There is nothing to be weirded out about. You may be distant cousins on paper but as we all know, many cases of "confused" parent DNA are rife!

Great share though.

[eleanorhurting]

yep.

 

story's the exact same, never met her before. On the fence whether it changes anything or just a weird detail.

 

FWIW i wanted insights into engaged women and how they act around men, whether they're closed off etc, everything i've written, before putting this layer in. Even though it might be irrelevant. Everyone i talked to immediately afterwards wasnt nearly as weirded out as i thought they'd be...

 

damn i'm good

 

There is a lot of inbreeding in the west of the island where I did my clinical rotations last year. I can sense the "i dipped (or in your case plan to dip) in the family pool" confession from a mile away.

 

Yeah... I really would not proceed with this if I were you.

[AmericanGraffiti]

Nope. That's what lust is. It's also a recipe for heart break.

 

It's not either or. "Good" girl you're not attracted to or "bad" girl you are. There are attractive "good" girls.

 

Have you never been attracted to a girl who isn't showing signs of disrespect for her boyfriend? If those are the only girls you're attracted to, I suggest you get some counseling.

 

There's nothing wrong with pursuing girls that you're really attracted to. However, if you don't stop for a second to look at that girl's actions objectively but instead choose to ignore things that show her disrespect for men and relationships, you're likely to end up on the receiving end of those actions with a broken heart.

 

Sorry the advice couldn't more pleasant.

 

errrmmm... Don't know what to say about that. I suppose there's no reason to get into it if you're satisfied with the advice. If you still need some input, you'd have to be more specific.

 

i really think you're overstating the "respect for a relationship" thing...if i meet a girl who's in a casual sort of thing, but calls the guy her bf, her hitting on me isnt some grand statement about her character, it's her being 19...or whatever. (obviously i'm referring to when i was younger...)

 

using what i said before of 6-8 girls i've been overwhelmingly attracted to, this is the only one who was engaged or beyond. I could say one other was in a relationship, three weren't, three i dont know...so, no, i cant say i'm only attracted to girls who disrespect their boyfriends.

 

as far as "good" girls, one of the aforementioned 6-8 is a social worker with homeless people, so she'd qualify as a "good" girl at least in her public image. I didnt mean it that way; i meant that if the girl i'm attracted to is disrespectful of her bf, or "bad", it doesnt matter to me because i cant take that attraction to her and put it onto another woman. So for better or worse, i'll always go for the girl i'm mostly attracted to.

 

the advice is plenty pleasant. Knowing a girl is engaged i already sort of check her off the list, but being attracted changes how i interpret the list. Aside from the potentially weird twist, what i was looking for was if i was reading her properly in the moment. ie. definite attraction within the context of being distant relatives. Because i used to be the guy that would stop everything and go through this analysis like over the last 4 pages of forum posting, in the moment. I didnt this time, just went with it, see where it goes

[AmericanGraffiti]

damn i'm good

 

There is a lot of inbreeding in the west of the island where I did my clinical rotations last year. I can sense the "i dipped (or in your case plan to dip) in the family pool" confession from a mile away.

 

Yeah... I really would not proceed with this if I were you.

 

i'd hesitate to call it inbreeding....my buddy's a medical doctor also, told me there's absolutely no genetic issues with anything beyond first cousins, which in his words was minimal in and of itself-tho this is distant of that, 2nd once removed i think. Jokes aside, frankly i cant think of a social issue, beyond eeeew awkwardness

 

but anyway, the two things combined, engaged and distant relative are the crux of my confusion, obviously...

[The Way I Am]

i really think you're overstating the "respect for a relationship" thing...if i meet a girl who's in a casual sort of thing, but calls the guy her bf, her hitting on me isnt some grand statement about her character,

 

Now you've changed the situation. Fiance is not a casual relationship.

 

If I had the same opinion in your new, completely different scenario, then yes, I would be exaggerating.

 

If you're talking to a girl and she says she has a boyfriend but she's still flirting with you, you should get some more info before you decide. After she drops the "B" bomb in the conversation, ask probing questions. Say something like "Oh you have a boyfriend. What's he like?", "I should have known you'd have a boyfriend. What's his name? (She says something like Joe.) Does Joe treat you right?", "Dang. You have a boyfriend. Does he know what a lucky guy he is?", etc.

 

If you get a response like: "Well, he's not really my boyfriend. I call him that, but he doesn't want to make it official." She's basically single. Go for it if she doesn't seem hung up on the guy.

 

If she says the same but indicates it's her who doesn't want to make it official, proceed but with caution. You don't want to develop feelings just to end up as the next guy she won't commit to.

 

If she's positive about the guy or doesn't seem thrilled about him but indicates that they're mutually committed, she's not worth your time. She doesn't respect relationship and flirts with guys behind her bf's back. Plus there's a high risk of drama in love triangles.

 

If she responds saying they have an open relationship, you have an excellent chance of getting laid. Not much chance of a relationship.

 

it's her being 19...or whatever.

 

Age is no excuse. If you're past the age of consent, you're old enough to know to treat people right.

 

using what i said before of 6-8 girls i've been overwhelmingly attracted to, this is the only one who was engaged or beyond. I could say one other was in a relationship, three weren't, three i dont know...so, no, i cant say i'm only attracted to girls who disrespect their boyfriends.

 

Well, there ya go. Just stick to the girls you're attracted to who aren't in relationships. And the ones who don't flirt with you while they're in them.

 

i meant that if the girl i'm attracted to is disrespectful of her bf, or "bad", it doesnt matter to me because i cant take that attraction to her and put it onto another woman. So for better or worse, i'll always go for the girl i'm mostly attracted to.

 

You shouldn't try to take your attraction for one woman and put it on another. That's silly. If you're attracted to a woman and find out she's lacking in character, pass on dating her and go on about your life until you meet another woman you're attracted to.

 

Because i used to be the guy that would stop everything and go through this analysis like over the last 4 pages of forum posting, in the moment. I didnt this time, just went with it, see where it goes

 

What you did in the moment was fine. I'm not suggesting you sit with a checklist and analyze as you're interacting with a girl. But you should have a list of red flags and deal breakers. You don't need to be constantly running through them. Just knowing what they are, you should be able to recognize them when they happen without much effort.

 

After you've met a girl, you should spend at least a minutes to consider any red flags you noticed and consider whether her actions give you any reason to believe she might not make a good partner.

 

i'd hesitate to call it inbreeding....my buddy's a medical doctor also, told me there's absolutely no genetic issues with anything beyond first cousins, which in his words was minimal in and of itself-tho this is distant of that, 2nd once removed i think. Jokes aside, frankly i cant think of a social issue, beyond eeeew awkwardness

 

I read an article years ago in, I believe, Scientific American or a similar publication that said exactly this. After first cousins, there's no genetic disadvantage to having a child with someone beyond first cousins unless it's routinely practiced over multiple generations.

 

You'd only have to worry about the stigma.

[spiderowl]

It depends what risks you are prepared to take. My father met my mother when she was engaged. He was very persistent, determined to have her, and romanced her without hesitation. She was swept off her feet and broke her engagement off. I suspect most women wouldn't do that and she probably wasn't as attracted to the guy she was engaged to as she could have been. But, although many will say she's off limits - and she should be from an ethical point of view - ultimately, she's the one who decides.

[The Way I Am]

I couldn't find the article I remember, but here are similar ones.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-incest-is-best-kissi

 

http://io9.com/5863666/why-inbreeding-really-isnt-as-bad-as-you-think-it-is

 

This one suggests even 1st isn't so bad depending on the family's genetics.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-04-04-cousins.htm

 

Some stories about first cousins who married.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/garden/26cousins.html?pagewanted=all

 

I wouldn't date anyone closer than 3rd cousin or anyone who's parents had a close relationship to my parents, because it still seems gross. I've never met anyone in my family beyond 2nd cousins. If I had, I'd probably increase 3rd to a higher number that excludes people I'd ever met while growing up.

 

But cousins aren't off limits if you don't mind the stigma.

Edited September 13, 2012 by The Way I Am

[AmericanGraffiti]

 

 

If you get a response like: "Well, he's not really my boyfriend. I call him that, but he doesn't want to make it official." She's basically single. Go for it if she doesn't seem hung up on the guy.

.

 

This is what i got from her based on when she said "...my boyfriend...or whatever..." referring to her fiance of a year. See, adding the new twist of being distant relatives, does my thought pattern start to make more sense? ie. if she's not attracted to me, and it's inconceivable because of the relation, why on earth would she be so evasive of being engaged? If i hadnt known she was engaged before, i wouldnt have known when i left. She literally never mentioned the words engaged or fiance or wedding or marriage around me.

 

Following this line of thought, if it's not even a kernel of thought in her head to have a romantic relationship/ rendezvous with a distant cousin, it borders on sociopathic to bail on pre-arranged plans with a cousin with whom you got along great. I simply asked her to a drink, almost the exact same wording as i did with my first cousin-which is an inconceivable relation-when i met her for drinks in the same city. She was much more flirtatious than me, so it wasnt "he was creepily hitting on me". In fact, it was the vice-versa; if the thought of something sexual with a distant relative appalled me, SHE would have been the one slightly creepily hitting on me. Since she's not a sociopath the only conclusion i can come to is she was genuinely attracted in the moment, but given space got freaked out by the combination of engaged and distant relative.

 

Now, given the revelation that she's a distant relative, does it at least make sense why i'm analyzing this to death and perhaps grasping at straws? To me, the relation part adds a different dynamic to everything that happened and makes it much harder to connect the dots. In my mind-tell me if i'm wrong-there are two contexts: 1) she was attracted enough that she considered, even if only as a fantasy, some kind of hook up, or 2) strictly platonic, never even enters her mind, just a naturally flirtatious girl. Either way, she liked me within that context. If it's 2, and she liked me as a cousin-pal, why bail? (short of fiance putting the kibosh on it)

 

anyway, as far as parents being close, if i'd never met her, how close could our parents have been?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Following this line of thought, if it's not even a kernel of thought in her head to have a romantic relationship/ rendezvous with a distant cousin, it borders on sociopathic to bail on pre-arranged plans with a cousin with whom you got along great.

 

This is completely warped logic. Cousin or not, if she could tell you were launching a big obsession about her (which I'm pretty sure she could), the wise and correct thing to do would be to bail on having drinks with you.

 

It doesn't "border on sociopathic," for heaven's sake.

 

If you think an engaged woman NOT having drinks with a distant relative who is drooling all over her is "sociopathic," I have pretty serious doubts about your ability to read the social situation that the two of you were in together.

 

If you are right and she was attracted to you - well, engaged and married people encounter other attractive people all the time. It's a good idea not to go out for drinks with them. A feeling of attraction does not have to be much of a thing at all.

 

But I bet she was actually being nice to you and you misread.

[AmericanGraffiti]

This is completely warped logic. Cousin or not, if she could tell you were launching a big obsession about her (which I'm pretty sure she could), the wise and correct thing to do would be to bail on having drinks with you.

 

It doesn't "border on sociopathic," for heaven's sake.

 

If you think an engaged woman NOT having drinks with a distant relative who is drooling all over her is "sociopathic," I have pretty serious doubts about your ability to read the social situation that the two of you were in together.

 

If you are right and she was attracted to you - well, engaged and married people encounter other attractive people all the time. It's a good idea not to go out for drinks with them. A feeling of attraction does not have to be much of a thing at all.

 

But I bet she was actually being nice to you and you misread.

 

first off, i've repeatedly said i was by far the more laid back of us two. I was not, in any way, drooling over her. She was the one going out her way to talk, flirt, interact etc. I understand your skepticism, but it just wasnt happening. If anything, i wasnt doing enough to-for lack of a better term-make a move. If asking for an email address ostensibly for the reason she's moving to my city is drooling, convicted, i guess.

 

After agreeing to meet me, there was a 2 sentence email, that basically consisted of, going to be there these dates, basically free whenever, where's cool to hang out? Again, i said about the exact same thing to my close cousin....hardly drool worthy stuff. Other than that, zero contact.

 

sociopathic may have been too harsh a word, but it's definitely anti-social to bail on platonic drinks-if thats her perception-with someone with no reply, if there's not a good reason. Being engaged is a good reason, therefore it wasnt sociopathic.

 

your last paragraph is what i said i've settled on. Knowing the situation as obviously only i do, the only thing that makes sense to me is "not a good idea to have drinks with him..."

[SeattleBabe]

Kind of surprised anyone would ask this. Engaged women can still fool around with other people. They just have to be ready for the consequences :rolleyes:

 

...like losing the chance to get married!

[Woggle]

Just remember if she does it to him she will do it to you.