how off limits are engaged women?

[The Way I Am]

this gets to the heart of what i'm asking...is an engaged woman, especially a younger one with her first adult bf, sort of uneasy about the whole concept of a lifetime contract, and thus sort of open to being talked out of it?

 

A girl worth dating, no. If a girl is a commitment phobe, is fickle, has no respect for men, or has other issues that you're better off not dealing with, then yes.

 

If so, was her at the very least showing signs of being attracted to me a version of starting to be talked out of it?

 

No. Best case scenario, she and her boyfriend have issues, and she's thinking of breaking it off. But that's still not a very good excuse for getting flirty with other guys. You might be able to set yourself up as the next branch she swings to.

 

And since there was no possible way of "closing the deal" there, was the intervening 2-3 weeks her talking herself back into the safe choice?

 

There's no way to know for sure why she didn't agree to meet you, but the signs don't point that.

 

I think you're grasping at straws and trying to make her out to be a much better person than her actions suggest her to be.

 

Here's another option: She's a serial cheater and her fiancé read her email and called her out on her planned meeting with you.

 

as far as appearances versus sincerity, i might be rationalizing, but it seems to me that even an engaged girl can still be attracted to another man, even if she loves her fiance, and can be putting out sincere vibes...but still not follow through with it for a whole host of reasons none of which have to do with the sincerity of her attraction to the other man. Or are happily engaged girls "closed off" both consciously and unconsciously?

 

No, they're not closed off, but the ones worth dating or marrying are respectful of their fiancés. It's highly unlikely that a person won't be attracted to any other people than their fiancé, male or female, young or old. A person without respect for relationships will act on that attraction, flirt with those people they're attracted to (and/or people they aren't attracted to), and give out their contact info to men they've been flirting with.

 

Would you be happy about your fiancé flirtily touching a guy's arm, pressing her boobs into him, giving him her contact info, and agreeing to meet up with him?

 

Do you really want a woman who would do that while she's with you?

Edited September 12, 2012 by The Way I Am

[AmericanGraffiti]

someone above said i obviously want to go through with pursuing her. I do, very much so and if i get the opportunity at least will try and subtly poke around, see what i can find. But the more i think about and the more i find out about her, i do realize it's most likely a small chance of happening, and there's nothing i can do about it. Had i met her a year earlier, maybe something could have developed. What i'm at the core trying to find out is whether my antenna is still working. The 10 days after i met her I'd have put all i'm worth on the line that she was sincerely attracted, but the engaged/backed-out-of-meeting-up-with-me part, even tho being engaged is a perfectly legitimate reason to not go on a date with a guy, is making me question myself...

[The Way I Am]

So you'd be fine with your girlfriend acting the way she did with another guy?

[AmericanGraffiti]

A girl worth dating, no. If a girl is a commitment phobe, is fickle, has no respect for men, or has other issues that you're better off not dealing with, then yes.

 

 

 

No. Best case scenario, she and her boyfriend have issues, and she's thinking of breaking it off. But that's still not a very good excuse for getting flirty with other guys. You might be able to set yourself up as the next branch she swings to.

 

 

 

There's no way to know for sure why she didn't agree to meet you, but the signs don't point that.

 

I think you're grasping at straws and trying to make her out to be a much better person than her actions suggest her to be.

 

Here's another option: She's a serial cheater and her fiancé read her email and called her out on her planned meeting with you.

 

 

 

No, they're not closed off, but the ones worth dating or marrying are respectful of their fiancés. It's highly unlikely that a person won't be attracted to any other people than their fiancé, male or female, young or old. A person without respect for relationships will act on that attraction, flirt with those people they're attracted to (and/or people they aren't attracted to), and give out their contact info to men they've been flirting with.

 

Would you be happy about your fiancé flirtily touching a guy's arm, pressing her boobs into him, giving him her contact info, and agreeing to meet up with him?

 

Do you really want a woman who would do that while she's with you?

 

i've never been in a "serious" relationship so forgive me if this is naive, but are 23 year old girls that unafraid of commitment? Is 23, guy or girl, old enough to start making definitive statements about their character?

 

if she is thinking of breaking it off (i have no firm idea either way) at what point is it reasonable to allow herself to be attracted to another guy, and show it (speaking in generalizations)

 

not sure i fully understand what you mean by the signs dont point to that...you seem to be implying she's not a good person, but not fully acting on an attraction would imply to me that she is. If she cant help if she's attracted to me, or whomever, (as no one really can in life) pulling back tells me she sort of got a hold of herself. Or are you saying it wasnt a sincere attraction? Cause like i said above, i'd have put everything on it being sincere...(again, i understand you have no way of giving me a definitive answer)

 

and no, of course i wouldnt want my fiancee openly flirting with another man because i would assume that meant she was genuinely attracted to him and i was in danger of losing her, both physically and emotionally. I'm not sure i believe a girl (or guy, roles reversed) can put out those sincere attractions without being sincere about it. I know for damn sure i cant fake it...

 

what i hypothetically want in a girl's character is irrelevant. I wont be able to be with a girl other than someone i'm fatally attracted to. Like i said, i cant fake it and they can see it...

[Anela]

someone above said i obviously want to go through with pursuing her. I do, very much so and if i get the opportunity at least will try and subtly poke around, see what i can find. But the more i think about and the more i find out about her, i do realize it's most likely a small chance of happening, and there's nothing i can do about it. Had i met her a year earlier, maybe something could have developed. What i'm at the core trying to find out is whether my antenna is still working. The 10 days after i met her I'd have put all i'm worth on the line that she was sincerely attracted, but the engaged/backed-out-of-meeting-up-with-me part, even tho being engaged is a perfectly legitimate reason to not go on a date with a guy, is making me question myself...

 

I don't think you should do it, I was just agreeing with TBF that it seems like that's what you want to do, no matter what anyone else advises you.

 

Nobody is jealous here, that I'm aware of. They're just giving you what I see as good advice: messing with someone in a relationship, is trouble.

 

I still think that you should at least wait until she's single - if she leaves her fiance. If she doesn't, then don't go for it.

[oaks]

So question is, not having any experience with off-the-market girls, is it reasonable to assume or think that her not replying was a crisis of conscience thing?

 

No, but it's best to not try to get involved with people you know are off-the-market. To also answer the question in the title, engaged women are very off-limits.

[AmericanGraffiti]

I don't think you should do it, I was just agreeing with TBF that it seems like that's what you want to do, no matter what anyone else advises you.

 

Nobody is jealous here, that I'm aware of. They're just giving you what I see as good advice: messing with someone in a relationship, is trouble.

 

I still think that you should at least wait until she's single - if she leaves her fiance. If she doesn't, then don't go for it.

 

the "jealous" thing was one of the posters saying something to the effect of i'm just coming here to brag about a girl who gave me some attention, me thinking why would i care to try and make anyone jealous?

 

all pertinent advice aside, i'm not sure i'd be able to not want to pursue her, single or not. It's been too long since i've felt this attracted to a girl; frankly i havent developed the life skills to compartmentalize attraction like this. As you can probably tell, it starts to overwhelm my ability to process it.

[todreaminblue]

I have always followed body language I can often tell when people are lying its called an eye slide....and then when i am hiding i can feel myself doing it when i dont admit what i am really thinking and throw off I cant look someone in the eyes i have to slide or actually turn the other way.Attraction is hard to hide body language is hard to control and my friends and family know me well enough.....in saying this i dont trust my skills anymore(this worries me a little because i tmeans i wont be able to read someone who could be threat i wotn be able to trust my judgement anymore and that is how i keep myself from threats i can get out fo a situation so now i just dont know if i am judging correctly) see how thinking you can read people goes.....you just cant.... so if you feel attraction it may not be reciprocated so let it go.....

 

 

 

and i think i am bent at the moment so its double for me not judging correctly this happens when you have high emotions dont go by body language or signs ask her straight up.......i did that and got my answer......doesnt stop me from trying again though just i guess when i am ready..when i feel confident enough to be up front...i wouldnt go for an engaged person they are committed and if they have that commitment and they do end up being with you then chances are your relationship has already got problems...i have split from my ex for now over six years i tried dating a couple of times early in this period and wasnt ready i think the woman will know when she is ready.....i too believe you should leave it until she isnt with her fiancee and hopefully she willl be straight up with you...I have decided to go with the flow i am involving myself in activities i have wanted to do my heart wont change while i am doing that.....but his might....i can dream....;0)...deb

[KungFuJoe]

all pertinent advice aside, i'm not sure i'd be able to not want to pursue her, single or not. It's been too long since i've felt this attracted to a girl; frankly i havent developed the life skills to compartmentalize attraction like this. As you can probably tell, it starts to overwhelm my ability to process it.

 

Then why are you even here? You honestly want opinions on how she might feel about you?

 

Go do your own dirty work.

[Quiet Storm]

I think men often mistake friendliness or flirting for attraction or interest, when often it's just what some women do to be nice, or for male attention. I've heard many men decribe feeling a deep connection, a primal attraction...and the girl is like what??? Some women even feel powerful when they inspire such deep lust in a man, but it's really the power and control feelings that they crave, not the sex. So what could've been just a little ego boost for her, may have turned into an obsession for you.

 

On the other hand, let's say that she was very attracted to you. If she's sincerely committed to her fiance, she will not act on it. Married people find others attractive, but that doesn't mean that you must explore that attraction. It's normal for men and women to feel a connection sometimes, but if you are committed to another, you avoid that person to protect your relationship.

 

I think that the no response to your email was your answer.

[Jethro]

I'm putting my money on her wanting a weekend fling with some hot guy and nothing more. Yeah, shes engaged, but not dead, and maybe she wanted to test the waters a few more times before settling down. She's not responding becasue she wanted a **** buddy for that camping weekend. Probably nothing more. Women are allowed to want that too.

[Balzac]

An alternate possibility exists. You share common social friends, who may be aware of your travel destination. Out of discretion or fear your meet-n-greet could cause her issues, she may be more willing to meet up post relocation?

 

What guy doesn't notice a giant sparker ring on a flirty girl? I'm guessing you didn't notice because the ring didn't exist during the camping trip.

[InJest]

She's only as off limits as her actions. If she's willing to **** you, then I say you should bang her brains out, just don't expect anything more than that.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The whole story and all of your conjectures mean nothing. There are only a couple of questions that need to be answered.

 

Do YOU respect the status of engagement enough to remain hands-off? Obviously, the answer to this is NO.

 

Do you think you would have an issue trusting a girl who would break off an engagement to mess around with some stranger she just saw for a brief period? I think the answer to this is also NO.

 

Can you take NO for an answer? I'm afraid the answer to this is NO, too, but whatever. All you can do is ask, and if she says YES, then carry on with whatever. If she says NO, please stop contorting about this stranger and get on with your life.

[Balzac]

Solid practical advice, however he must now devise a plan to facilitate access. They do share a common friend.

[AlexCross]

First off, I really thought I was over asking for internetadvice, and I do realize most will say “do NOTHING”, but I’m looking for some unbiased thoughts…apologizein advance for the length, but this is somewhat complicated

 

So, I met this girl, 23ish, over a two day camping trip,sans fiancé, through mutual friends, so I knew she was engaged before we met.Anyway, no surprises, beautiful, charming, you know the story…she was giving me all the signals we guys are taught to look for-dilated pupils, unnecessary touching, making sure to sit next to me all the time, unbroken eye contact from across the room, other body language cues etc. We start talking and she mentions her bf in an off-handed, dismissive manner...

 

I felt a STRONG attraction to her, like the pit of the stomach, instinctual attraction that I believe is an evolutionary instinct telling you there’s something to this. It was an “I cannot leave this room without saying something” kind of thing. Got her email as she lives out of state.

 

As it happened, I was due to be in her area to visit my friend, planned months in advance. I emailed her, suggested we get a drink,implying nothing more than friendly drinks as people who have common friends.She replied with, definitely, let me know when you’re here. It was a couple weeks between then and when I was there, so I emailed when I got into town, no reply, emailed again three days later, no reply. No other contact in the interim as she’s not even on facebook (no incidental “he said something offensive on facebook” contact)

 

Now normally, girl doesn’t respond, I assume she’s not interested. But I got to thinking that this had the ring of her being attracted to me in the heat of the moment, even immediately after (replying to the first email) then a few weeks to think about it giving her time to think, “I’m ENGAGED, I cant be meeting this guy even if I have no intention of doing anything”.

 

Now her attraction to me seemed to be more than “he’s kinda hot” and more of a tentative “why couldn’t I have met him years ago” thing, there was just that …sense. But I get it, she’s engaged. But she mentioned to me that she and presumably her fiancé were moving to my city. In fact, this is when she did the dismissive of the bf thing. So odds are I’ll see her and I assume there will still be an attraction and I know I’ll have the same “I am not leaving this room without saying something” instinct. I cannot stop thinking about her, cannot stop the sense that this is a/ the girl I could have a serious relationship with. I’m actually quite surprised that a 2 day flirtation could linger with me going on six weeks-these usually pass within days, if not hours.

 

So question is, not having any experience with off-the-market girls, is it reasonable to assume or think that her not replying was a crisis of conscience thing? Or, more of a “not that interested” thing? Further,next time we see each other, if she’s not married yet, do I say or do anything, if “it” is still there? Frankly, my instinct is telling me to do whatever it takes, who knows when or if an attraction like this will come around again,consequences and fairy tale karma be damned…

 

PS. Every time I think I’m overblowing her attraction to me,I think of that only time her fiancé of a year came up. Her exact words were(in the context of moving to my city) “…with…my boyfriend…or whatever”,punctuated with a dismissive wave of the hand. For the life of me I cant think of a reason a girl would refer to what is supposed to be THE relationship in her life so off-handedly, if she wasn’t subconsciously trying to make herself seem somewhat available, in the moment…

 

Anyway, sorry for the essay and thanks in advance

 

How off limits is a voluntary colonscopy?

[EasyHeart]

I don't consider any women necessarily off-limits. Women aren't property and they can decide for themselves who they want to be with. It's more a question of probablilities: why spend time chasing someone with a low probability of success when there are so many unattached women out there?

 

It may be that she was interested in you on your camping trip; it's also possible you completely misread her. Either way, her lack of contact means lack of interest. Whether that's because she's not attracted or had some crisis of conscience is irrelevant. She's not interested, so you need to forget about her.

 

Also, if you decide to pursue a woman who's off-limits, you need to make sure to be clear (with yourself) about your intentions. If a woman is willing to cheat on her boyfriend/fiance/husband with you, then you never, NEVER want to be her boyfriend/fiance/husband because she'll do the same to you. Women like that are strictly for fooling around, not for relationships.

[Balzac]

HaHa. With or without lube?

[Mrlonelyone]

After a certain age everyone is in a relationship, has feelings for someone else, or is in some way not emotionally totally free. We all collect baggage and sometimes that baggage means an existing relationship which may be kind of weak, or a very involved EX (baby's mother baby's father etc.)

 

Engaged women are off limits as far as you making the first moves on them.

 

If they call you and they ask you out and they make all the first moves... then your going out with them is no different than going out with a woman looking to get out of her relationship.

 

Most here have and will say that being simply in a relationship is enough to make someone off limits. This is just not true. People have needs and everything is a competition. If someone is in a relationship, and not getting their needs met they look elsewhere. That is the way it has always been.

 

Now once married that's a different story. Before that no real promises have been made, marriage is a real promise and everyone should strive to keep those together.

[The Way I Am]

i've never been in a "serious" relationship so forgive me if this is naive, but are 23 year old girls that unafraid of commitment?

 

As a general rule, no young girls don't have commitment phobia like young guys do. Some do, but it doesn't matter.

 

Is 23, guy or girl, old enough to start making definitive statements about their character?

A 23 year old knows it's not appropriate to flirt with other people behind their SO's back. (Unless the couple have some sort of open relationship -- but those are rare and would mean you have little chance of anything but sex anyway.)

 

Sure, at 23 people have time to change, but you'll get pretty hurt dating people hoping or assuming they'll change.

 

if she is thinking of breaking it off (i have no firm idea either way) at what point is it reasonable to allow herself to be attracted to another guy, and show it (speaking in generalizations)

Ideally after she's broken it off and had enough time to be ready for a new relationship. There may be a little leeway in there. It's not inexcusable to flirt with someone before you're ready for a new relationship, but it does run the risk of leading them on or worse -- ending up in a disaster of a relationship.

 

It's possible someone can be in a relationship that's not going well and meet someone they're really attracted to which pushes them to finally make the decision to leave. I had that happen before with a guy who wasn't putting the effort into the relationship, didn't seem to want to commit, and was likely seeing other girls behind my back. I met a guy I really hit it off with. He was someone I ran into on a regular basis. I probably was giving off signs of interest, but only after I'd decided to break it off with the guy I had been dating did I start flirting.

 

It ended up being a disaster, because the guy I broke it off with suddenly started paying attention to me and making romantic gestures. And because I hadn't taken time between the relationships to put things into perspective, I transferred the old relationship's insecurities into the new one.

 

In your case, I don't think this is a girl in a bad relationship who decided to end it with her fiance because she met someone (you) who gave her the nudge toward the decision to break it off. If that were so, she wouldn't have disappeared on your invitation. She would have broken up with her fiance already and either accepted your invitation or told you she needs little more time before she starts dating.

 

not sure i fully understand what you mean by the signs dont point to that...you seem to be implying she's not a good person

She's not a good person TO DATE. That doesn't mean she's a horrible excuse for a human being.

 

but not fully acting on an attraction would imply to me that she is. If she cant help if she's attracted to me, or whomever, (as no one really can in life) pulling back tells me she sort of got a hold of herself.

She did act on her attraction. There are certain things that you can't help doing if you're attracted to someone. Then there are things you do on purpose like touching their arm or pressing your chest into them.

 

I don't know about other women, but I've never accidentally or subconsciously pressed my boobs into a guy no matter how attractive I found him. I have done it "accidentally" and when I've gotten shoved around in a crowded bar. Camping doesn't seem to me like a crowded environment that would lead to genuine accidental boob pressage.

 

She did it on purpose. That's an action she chose to take that is disrespectful of her fiance.

 

Or are you saying it wasnt a sincere attraction?

No one but her can know for sure. My guess is that there was some genuine attraction but no sincere intent to follow through on it. She was flirting with you for the ego boost .

 

I'm not sure i believe a girl (or guy, roles reversed) can put out those sincere attractions without being sincere about it. I know for damn sure i cant fake it...

Have you never watched a movie? Actors make their living convincing people they have sincere attraction for other actors for which they have no genuine romantic interest.

 

what i hypothetically want in a girl's character is irrelevant. I wont be able to be with a girl other than someone i'm fatally attracted to. Like i said, i cant fake it and they can see it...

What you want in a girl's character is not irrelevant. If you put attraction over character, you're just asking to get hurt. BOTH have to be there.

 

If you pursue her and things eventually blow up in your face, don't say you didn't have any warning signs. They've been pointed out, but you're choosing to ignore them.

Edited September 12, 2012 by The Way I Am

[CptSaveAho]

To answer the original post question

 

Fact of life:

 

How they come is how they go.

[AmericanGraffiti]

As a general rule, no young girls don't have commitment phobia like young guys do. Some do, but it doesn't matter.

 

A 23 year old knows it's not appropriate to flirt with other people behind their SO's back. (Unless the couple have some sort of open relationship -- but those are rare and would mean you have little chance of anything but sex anyway.)

 

Sure, at 23 people have time to change, but you'll get pretty hurt dating people hoping or assuming they'll change.

 

Ideally after she's broken it off and had enough time to be ready for a new relationship. There may be a little leeway in there. It's not inexcusable to flirt with someone before you're ready for a new relationship, but it does run the risk of leading them on or worse -- ending up in a disaster of a relationship.

 

It's possible someone can be in a relationship that's not going well and meet someone they're really attracted to which pushes them to finally make the decision to leave. I had that happen before with a guy who wasn't putting the effort into the relationship, didn't seem to want to commit, and was likely seeing other girls behind my back. I met a guy I really hit it off with. He was someone I ran into on a regular basis. I probably was giving off signs of interest, but only after I'd decided to break it off with the guy I had been dating did I start flirting.

 

It ended up being a disaster, because the guy I broke it off with suddenly started paying attention to me and making romantic gestures. And because I hadn't taken time between the relationships to put things into perspective, I transferred the old relationship's insecurities into the new one.

 

In your case, I don't think this is a girl in a bad relationship who decided to end it with her fiance because she met someone (you) who gave her the nudge toward the decision to break it off. If that were so, she wouldn't have disappeared on your invitation. She would have broken up with her fiance already and either accepted your invitation or told you she needs little more time before she starts dating.

 

She's not a good person TO DATE. That doesn't mean she's a horrible excuse for a human being.

 

She did act on her attraction. There are certain things that you can't help doing if you're attracted to someone. Then there are things you do on purpose like touching their arm or pressing your chest into them.

 

I don't know about other women, but I've never accidentally or subconsciously pressed my boobs into a guy no matter how attractive I found him. I have done it "accidentally" and when I've gotten shoved around in a crowded bar. Camping doesn't seem to me like a crowded environment that would lead to genuine accidental boob pressage.

 

She did it on purpose. That's an action she chose to take that is disrespectful of her fiance.

 

No one but her can know for sure. My guess is that there was some genuine attraction but no sincere intent to follow through on it. She was flirting with you for the ego boost .

 

Have you never watched a movie? Actors make their living convincing people they have sincere attraction for other actors for which they have no genuine romantic interest.

 

What you want in a girl's character is not irrelevant. If you put attraction over character, you're just asking to get hurt. BOTH have to be there.

 

If you pursue her and things eventually blow up in your face, don't say you didn't have any warning signs. They've been pointed out, but you're choosing to ignore them.

 

there was no way boobs on arm was accidental, we were in a wide open space...

 

when i say her character is irrelevant i dont mean i dont care about it, i mean that as i said i become overwhelmingly attracted to certain girls (maybe 6-8 in my life) that they could be basically anything and i'd still choose to be with them over the "good" girl. Isnt that what attraction, or taken a step further love, is? It's not necessarily "she's beautiful, i cant stop looking" cause that fades, it's how the whole package combines to make you feel. If i'm not pursuing that, what am i pursuing? A checklist?

 

but beyond everything, and i've read some good advice here from unbiased sources, i've basically settled on she was definitely attracted but without any real intent on following through with it, because she's already engaged; it was-as my one friend put it-a heat of the moment thing. Since she was already engaged before i ever met her, it's hard for me to feel too bad about the whole situation, even though it is profoundly disappointing to meet someone i'm that attracted to that cant be had.

 

to be honest, i havent been completely forthcoming about the circumstances...there exists what could be interpreted as a very strong reason (depending on perspective) why even single she and even I couldnt follow through on it. A reason that makes whether she was attracted or what the hell she was doing even more confusing to me. i'll maybe leave it at that...

[eleanorhurting]

there was no way boobs on arm was accidental, we were in a wide open space...

 

when i say her character is irrelevant i dont mean i dont care about it, i mean that as i said i become overwhelmingly attracted to certain girls (maybe 6-8 in my life) that they could be basically anything and i'd still choose to be with them over the "good" girl. Isnt that what attraction, or taken a step further love, is? It's not necessarily "she's beautiful, i cant stop looking" cause that fades, it's how the whole package combines to make you feel. If i'm not pursuing that, what am i pursuing? A checklist?

 

but beyond everything, and i've read some good advice here from unbiased sources, i've basically settled on she was definitely attracted but without any real intent on following through with it, because she's already engaged; it was-as my one friend put it-a heat of the moment thing. Since she was already engaged before i ever met her, it's hard for me to feel too bad about the whole situation, even though it is profoundly disappointing to meet someone i'm that attracted to that cant be had.

 

to be honest, i havent been completely forthcoming about the circumstances...there exists what could be interpreted as a very strong reason (depending on perspective) why even single she and even I couldnt follow through on it. A reason that makes whether she was attracted or what the hell she was doing even more confusing to me. i'll maybe leave it at that...

 

are you distant cousins?

[The Way I Am]

when i say her character is irrelevant i dont mean i dont care about it, i mean that as i said i become overwhelmingly attracted to certain girls (maybe 6-8 in my life) that they could be basically anything and i'd still choose to be with them over the "good" girl. Isnt that what attraction, or taken a step further love, is?

 

Nope. That's what lust is. It's also a recipe for heart break.

 

It's not either or. "Good" girl you're not attracted to or "bad" girl you are. There are attractive "good" girls.

 

Have you never been attracted to a girl who isn't showing signs of disrespect for her boyfriend? If those are the only girls you're attracted to, I suggest you get some counseling.

 

If i'm not pursuing that, what am i pursuing? A checklist?

There's nothing wrong with pursuing girls that you're really attracted to. However, if you don't stop for a second to look at that girl's actions objectively but instead choose to ignore things that show her disrespect for men and relationships, you're likely to end up on the receiving end of those actions with a broken heart.

 

but beyond everything, and i've read some good advice here from unbiased sources

Sorry the advice couldn't more pleasant.

 

to be honest, i havent been completely forthcoming about the circumstances...there exists what could be interpreted as a very strong reason (depending on perspective) why even single she and even I couldnt follow through on it. A reason that makes whether she was attracted or what the hell she was doing even more confusing to me. i'll maybe leave it at that...

errrmmm... Don't know what to say about that. I suppose there's no reason to get into it if you're satisfied with the advice. If you still need some input, you'd have to be more specific.

[joystickd]

I say make a move. Hell she is not married.