how off limits are engaged women?

[AmericanGraffiti]

First off, I really thought I was over asking for internetadvice, and I do realize most will say “do NOTHING”, but I’m looking for some unbiased thoughts…apologizein advance for the length, but this is somewhat complicated

 

So, I met this girl, 23ish, over a two day camping trip,sans fiancé, through mutual friends, so I knew she was engaged before we met.Anyway, no surprises, beautiful, charming, you know the story…she was giving me all the signals we guys are taught to look for-dilated pupils, unnecessary touching, making sure to sit next to me all the time, unbroken eye contact from across the room, other body language cues etc. We start talking and she mentions her bf in an off-handed, dismissive manner...

 

I felt a STRONG attraction to her, like the pit of the stomach, instinctual attraction that I believe is an evolutionary instinct telling you there’s something to this. It was an “I cannot leave this room without saying something” kind of thing. Got her email as she lives out of state.

 

As it happened, I was due to be in her area to visit my friend, planned months in advance. I emailed her, suggested we get a drink,implying nothing more than friendly drinks as people who have common friends.She replied with, definitely, let me know when you’re here. It was a couple weeks between then and when I was there, so I emailed when I got into town, no reply, emailed again three days later, no reply. No other contact in the interim as she’s not even on facebook (no incidental “he said something offensive on facebook” contact)

 

Now normally, girl doesn’t respond, I assume she’s not interested. But I got to thinking that this had the ring of her being attracted to me in the heat of the moment, even immediately after (replying to the first email) then a few weeks to think about it giving her time to think, “I’m ENGAGED, I cant be meeting this guy even if I have no intention of doing anything”.

 

Now her attraction to me seemed to be more than “he’s kinda hot” and more of a tentative “why couldn’t I have met him years ago” thing, there was just that …sense. But I get it, she’s engaged. But she mentioned to me that she and presumably her fiancé were moving to my city. In fact, this is when she did the dismissive of the bf thing. So odds are I’ll see her and I assume there will still be an attraction and I know I’ll have the same “I am not leaving this room without saying something” instinct. I cannot stop thinking about her, cannot stop the sense that this is a/ the girl I could have a serious relationship with. I’m actually quite surprised that a 2 day flirtation could linger with me going on six weeks-these usually pass within days, if not hours.

 

So question is, not having any experience with off-the-market girls, is it reasonable to assume or think that her not replying was a crisis of conscience thing? Or, more of a “not that interested” thing? Further,next time we see each other, if she’s not married yet, do I say or do anything, if “it” is still there? Frankly, my instinct is telling me to do whatever it takes, who knows when or if an attraction like this will come around again,consequences and fairy tale karma be damned…

 

PS. Every time I think I’m overblowing her attraction to me,I think of that only time her fiancé of a year came up. Her exact words were(in the context of moving to my city) “…with…my boyfriend…or whatever”,punctuated with a dismissive wave of the hand. For the life of me I cant think of a reason a girl would refer to what is supposed to be THE relationship in her life so off-handedly, if she wasn’t subconsciously trying to make herself seem somewhat available, in the moment…

 

Anyway, sorry for the essay and thanks in advance

[irc333]

If it's one of those lame engagements where the man just buys a ring for her to wear to

 

1. Prolong something that's not going to happen

2. Use it as a "hands off my property"

 

I'd not be tempted to pursue if it's one of those "go no where" engagements. lol

[eleanorhurting]

You are wiling to get yourself into the mess you are suggesting for a girl you met one weekend?

 

Engaged people are off limits. People in relationships are off limits

 

I hope you do what you know you need to do (which is nothing) and stop thinking about what this girl is doing or is thinking and analyzing everything she did ir did not do. You could miss out on girls who are available

[Balzac]

At 23 she's completed undergrad so must into her first big girl job.

She's shopping around if you ask me. At her age and with her demeanor it's likely an engagement of convenience. Job search dictated a co

commitment prior to living together.

 

In my world, go for it. If she's committed to her guy she'll shut you down immediately. Flashing her ring and talking about her guy. She did not posture that way.

[fortyninethousand322]

Nobody is off limits. It's all up to you to decide.

[AmericanGraffiti]

At 23 she's completed undergrad so must into her first big girl job.

She's shopping around if you ask me. At her age and with her demeanor it's likely an engagement of convenience. Job search dictated a co

commitment prior to living together.

 

In my world, go for it. If she's committed to her guy she'll shut you down immediately. Flashing her ring and talking about her guy. She did not posture that way.

 

not working as far as i know, moving to my city for job opportunities

[AmericanGraffiti]

You are wiling to get yourself into the mess you are suggesting for a girl you met one weekend?

 

Engaged people are off limits. People in relationships are off limits

 

I hope you do what you know you need to do (which is nothing) and stop thinking about what this girl is doing or is thinking and analyzing everything she did ir did not do. You could miss out on girls who are available

 

i'm willing to follow my instincts...

[AmericanGraffiti]

in my earlier days when i had no idea, i'd actually look into this stuff...it's more of whole is greater than the sum of the parts idea. Maybe i'm being completely high schoolish naive but unnecessary touching....hands linger together 10 seconds too long, breasts pushing into my arm when she talks to me etc. Any one probably means nothing, taken as a whole...

 

but again, non-normal situation is causing me to analyze everything that happened. If it's an unattached girl....."you hook up?" nope, "she's not into you" end of story.

Edited September 12, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mme. Chaucer]

Can anybody help me learn how to give a signal by dilating my pupils? I thought that was controlled by the autonomous nervous system? Well, who knew. I guess the new geniuses who show up here on LoveShack can teach me stuff every day.

 

Smashing my boobs onto somebody, on the other hand, I think I can figure out on my own.

[AmericanGraffiti]

Can anybody help me learn how to give a signal by dilating my pupils? I thought that was controlled by the autonomous nervous system? Well, who knew. I guess the new geniuses who show up here on LoveShack can teach me stuff every day.

 

Smashing my boobs onto somebody, on the other hand, I think I can figure out on my own.

 

i think the point is exactly that it's controlled by the nervous system and not by one's consciousness

[Balzac]

It's all about the chemistry and her desire to explore options.

He hasn't captured her if she's putting out signals to you.

Who knows if she's bored or the ring wasn't quality haha.

 

Sounds to me that you're game for the chase.

[fortyninethousand322]

Can anybody help me learn how to give a signal by dilating my pupils? I thought that was controlled by the autonomous nervous system? Well, who knew. I guess the new geniuses who show up here on LoveShack can teach me stuff every day.

 

Smashing my boobs onto somebody, on the other hand, I think I can figure out on my own.

 

If that's considered a "signal", I guess certain people should avoid frequenting the eye doctor. Lots of dilated pupils there, don't want to get any signals crossed.

[The Way I Am]

What you describe could be that she was insanely, uncontrollably attracted to you like hope, or it could be the actions of an attention wh*re who's attracted to a new guy every time her fiancé isn't around and doesn't mind leading guys on a little.

 

I'm leaning toward attention wh*re, because non-attention-wh*res won't be acting dismissive of their fiancé or shoving their boobs up on a guy even if they are really attracted to said guy -- unless they're trying to get revenge on the fiancé for cheating or something. But in that case, they're probably drama queens.

[KungFuJoe]

You came here to make a thread on a question that is ridiculously easy to answer?

 

Me thinks you just have a school boy crush on a girl who showed you some attention and came here to tell everyone about it.

 

Don't you have a circle of friends or a dog you could have told this tale to?

[Anela]

Don't do anything.

 

If she breaks up with her fiance in the future, and she's still giving what you perceive to be signals, then you can make a move.

[AmericanGraffiti]

What you describe could be that she was insanely, uncontrollably attracted to you like hope, or it could be the actions of an attention wh*re who's attracted to a new guy every time her fiancé isn't around and doesn't mind leading guys on a little.

 

I'm leaning toward attention wh*re, because non-attention-wh*res won't be acting dismissive of their fiancé or shoving their boobs up on a guy even if they are really attracted to said guy -- unless they're trying to get revenge on the fiancé for cheating or something. But in that case, they're probably drama queens.

 

she obviously wasnt uncontrollably attracted to me or she would have met me for drinks three weeks after the fact...on the assumption that there are such thing as attention wh*res, whats the difference between that and someone genuinely attracted?

[threebyfate]

If you're determined to proceed, go for it. Drama will ensue and you'll learn something important, whether she tells you to piss off, her fiancé does or maybe she goes for it too and then her fiancé will also learn a valuable lesson about her before he stupidly marries her.

 

Just remember, people who can be stolen from another can also be stolen from you.

[The Way I Am]

she obviously wasnt uncontrollably attracted to me or she would have met me for drinks three weeks after the fact...on the assumption that there are such thing as attention wh*res, whats the difference between that and someone genuinely attracted?

 

If she wasn't uncontrollably attracted to you then she should have been able to control herself and not act in a way that's disrespectful to her fiancé. Since she wasn't so attracted that she couldn't help herself from getting touchy and pressing her boobs into you, the chances are that if that's how she behaves with this guy, she'd behave that way with other guys if she were with you.

 

Just because someone's an attention wh*re doesn't mean that they're not attracted to the person they're flirting with. But they'll act super flirty no matter how attracted they are and lead a guy on with no intention of following through.

 

I left off a 3rd option, which is that she's just a sh*tty girlfriend who has no problem shopping around behind her fiancé's back. Which means, she'll have no problems shopping around behind yours.

Edited September 12, 2012 by The Way I Am

[carhill]

she obviously wasnt uncontrollably attracted to me or she would have met me for drinks three weeks after the fact...on the assumption that there are such thing as attention wh*res, whats the difference between that and someone genuinely attracted?

OP, my explanation for this dynamic is that someone who is genuinely attracted projects feelings they embrace within, whereas an emotional vampire/attention black hole sucks the love/attraction out of you by *appearing* to be attracted. It's style without substance. I ran into the latter with a number of MW's (married women) over the decades and found the perspective to be more pervasive amongst that demographic than amongst single women.

 

If this engaged woman is an emotional vampire, she *likes* that you *like* her. You, the person, is largely irrelevant. You are just a receptacle/host for something she wants or needs.

 

The signals you alluded to earlier can be sincere or they can be faked. As a promiscuous LS'er once opined, in that instance about women faking orgasms, a man will really never know for sure. It's the same with this.

 

Since she's engaged, I'd strongly suggest continuing to date single women. Engagements are broken all the time. Tell me, was she wearing an engagement ring?

[AmericanGraffiti]

You came here to make a thread on a question that is ridiculously easy to answer?

 

Me thinks you just have a school boy crush on a girl who showed you some attention and came here to tell everyone about it.

 

Don't you have a circle of friends or a dog you could have told this tale to?

 

as per the original post, my extended circle of friends is how i met her.

 

as far as her simply showing attention, me blowing it out of proportion...one of the hardest things to do with language is describe the intangible. My words might be understating it, might be overstating it. I, the person who experienced first hand, have a hard enough time coming to conclusions; someone reading only my recollections will be a lot less likely to be able to form a definite opinion, either along the lines of what i'm "hoping" for or not. What I really want out of this is, with the context i've provided, to gain some insight into the mindset of engaged women. Do they consider themselves closed for business, do younger women have doubts about the choice, is 60 years with the same guy starting to sound daunting etc etc

 

Either way, it HAS been a long term goal of mine to get a bunch of anonymous internet forum posters jealous about a guy they'll never know talking about a girl they'll never see.

[strawman]

If genders were reversed, this post would be about how this thread proves all women want jerks.

[Anela]

 

Either way, it HAS been a long term goal of mine to get a bunch of anonymous internet forum posters jealous about a guy they'll never know talking about a girl they'll never see.

 

Who's jealous? I don't know you from Adam, and I don't want a twenty-three-year-old girl putting her breasts on me, let alone anything else.

 

You obviously want to go for it, so go ahead. Do tell us what happens.

[carhill]

OP, I neglected to provide any specifics about appearances versus sincerity. Here's one clue:

 

I was due to be in her area to visit my friend, planned months in advance. I emailed her, suggested we get a drink,implying nothing more than friendly drinks as people who have common friends.She replied with, definitely, let me know when you’re here. It was a couple weeks between then and when I was there, so I emailed when I got into town, no reply, emailed again three days later, no reply.

 

Poof.

 

My version is I've had the physical kisses, the I love you's, the talk of you and me baby and then poof. I call them 'poofers' now. Well, I call them other things, but that's not publishable

[AmericanGraffiti]

OP, my explanation for this dynamic is that someone who is genuinely attracted projects feelings they embrace within, whereas an emotional vampire/attention black hole sucks the love/attraction out of you by *appearing* to be attracted. It's style without substance. I ran into the latter with a number of MW's (married women) over the decades and found the perspective to be more pervasive amongst that demographic than amongst single women.

 

If this engaged woman is an emotional vampire, she *likes* that you *like* her. You, the person, is largely irrelevant. You are just a receptacle/host for something she wants or needs.

 

The signals you alluded to earlier can be sincere or they can be faked. As a promiscuous LS'er once opined, in that instance about women faking orgasms, a man will really never know for sure. It's the same with this.

 

Since she's engaged, I'd strongly suggest continuing to date single women. Engagements are broken all the time. Tell me, was she wearing an engagement ring?

 

i tried to put it that i thought she was projecting more real feelings, thats what i meant about evolutionary instinct, that we pick up on those because it's being projected, which is what i thought...of course, its my biased perspective.

 

FWIW, first time i really noticed her i was playing around with one of the younger kids (6 or so years old) that were there, i turned around and she was watching and then sort of half smiled at me...point being, it's not like i was puppy dog following her around and she was throwing me a bone to keep me happy...

 

never noticed if she was wearing the ring...saw her hands plenty close (board games) and never noticed

[AmericanGraffiti]

OP, I neglected to provide any specifics about appearances versus sincerity. Here's one clue:

 

I was due to be in her area to visit my friend, planned months in advance. I emailed her, suggested we get a drink,implying nothing more than friendly drinks as people who have common friends.She replied with, definitely, let me know when you’re here. It was a couple weeks between then and when I was there, so I emailed when I got into town, no reply, emailed again three days later, no reply.

 

Poof.

 

My version is I've had the physical kisses, the I love you's, the talk of you and me baby and then poof. I call them 'poofers' now. Well, I call them other things, but that's not publishable

 

this gets to the heart of what i'm asking...is an engaged woman, especially a younger one with her first adult bf, sort of uneasy about the whole concept of a lifetime contract, and thus sort of open to being talked out of it? If so, was her at the very least showing signs of being attracted to me a version of starting to be talked out of it? And since there was no possible way of "closing the deal" there, was the intervening 2-3 weeks her talking herself back into the safe choice? (unattached me thinking like this about a 2 day flirtation isnt a safe choice, i can only imagine how an engaged woman would view it...)

 

as far as appearances versus sincerity, i might be rationalizing, but it seems to me that even an engaged girl can still be attracted to another man, even if she loves her fiance, and can be putting out sincere vibes...but still not follow through with it for a whole host of reasons none of which have to do with the sincerity of her attraction to the other man. Or are happily engaged girls "closed off" both consciously and unconsciously?