Can I Rant For a Second?

[SecretFlower]

This is not entirely affair/OW related, but can I please rant for a moment? If you've read my posts you'll know my husband, who is divorcing me, has begun divorce proceedings and that our marriage has essentially fallen apart due to my previous relationships with a MM and his insecurities revolving my past.

 

Anyways, I knew that we were divorcing and for the most part I'm trying to accept it, but this week I was served the papers and expected them to say the usual irreconcilable differences instead of what they did. Instead he cited adultery.

 

I'm so angry and hurt I don't really know what to think. I never wanted to hurt my husband and I wanted this to be as civil as possible, but now it just feels like he's being intentionally cruel. I did not cheat on my husband. I respected our vows until we separated and I made the decision to end that relationship as I felt guilty that we were still married even though we were separated. It just feels like everything is being thrown in my face and I don't know how to make it work.

[Balzac]

It's a legal document, he's got a lawyer, county rules vary and not know what state you reside in, hard to construe this as personal.

 

Beyond that, the marriage is over, stop getting sucked into the drama. A divorce is basically shutting down a business.

[whichwayisup]

Maybe your husband never felt like you truly and fully were in love with him since your affair with the MM was ending and there was a bit of a crossover, no real time in between before you got involved with your now husband.

 

Sorry you're hurting.

 

I don't know why he'd put down adultery since you didn't cheat on him when you were married.

 

All you can do is allow yourself to grieve the loss and heal. Seek some counselling to help you cope if you can't do this on your own.

[AnotherRound]

This is not entirely affair/OW related, but can I please rant for a moment? If you've read my posts you'll know my husband, who is divorcing me, has begun divorce proceedings and that our marriage has essentially fallen apart due to my previous relationships with a MM and his insecurities revolving my past.

 

Anyways, I knew that we were divorcing and for the most part I'm trying to accept it, but this week I was served the papers and expected them to say the usual irreconcilable differences instead of what they did. Instead he cited adultery.

 

I'm so angry and hurt I don't really know what to think. I never wanted to hurt my husband and I wanted this to be as civil as possible, but now it just feels like he's being intentionally cruel. I did not cheat on my husband. I respected our vows until we separated and I made the decision to end that relationship as I felt guilty that we were still married even though we were separated. It just feels like everything is being thrown in my face and I don't know how to make it work.

 

That's an odd thing to put in legal paper work, as it's not illegal. Also, in most states, it isn't even relevant bc it doesn't change anything legally anyway. I think you're right, I think it's a bit of a personal jab at you. Who knows why he put it... maybe just to jab at you. Maybe, if your state isn't a simple 50/50 state he is hoping for a better settlement bc of it (if it can even be considered, as in most states it isn't considered at all anyway). Maybe he put it bc he is still very angry and wants it written down on a legal document to be preserved forever.

 

Whatever his reason, I agree, it wasn't necessary for anything (again, unless he is hoping that legally it will help him get a better settlement in the divorce). I hope that it doesn't mean that he is going to make the D contentious and messy. Good luck.

[whichwayisup]

it could also be his way of making sure he doesn't have to pay you spousal support since you were only married for a year.

 

Have you spoken to him directly about this? Calmly? Or is he totally avoiding you.

[SecretFlower]

^^ Yeah, I think it was meant to be more personal than anything and it definitely hurt. I don't know what the legal ramifications are, but I know that from the little I've read it is legal in our state as grounds for divorce and that a testimony from someone other than the spouse or wronged party. My only big fear is that he tries something like to get a hold of ex-MM's x-wife or a friend who knows I had casually been seeing my ex following our separation. It's all just so unnecessary.

[SecretFlower]

Whichwayisup,

 

I tried to talk to him about it and he shut down. I honestly don't care about spousal support or anything. I realize that we had a very short marriage, but I went into it loving him and I expected we could do this without being hurtful. I really don't know why he had to go here.

[beenburned]

Here in the US, there are 13 states that are fault states. If adultery can be proven, the assets are divided more toward the innocent party.

 

Are you in a no-fault state?

[Spark1111]

Get a lawyer, a good one, today.

 

I do not think it's personal.

 

It's financial.

 

Protect yourself.

[jmargel]

In my opinion, seperation is not a ticket to go out and find someone, nevertheless someone else who is married. Seperation is used for a cooling off period, to step back from the situation and think things through.

 

Of course he's going to be upset with you and feel betrayed because he was. You did commit adultery. If you wanted to see what else is out there before the divorce then you should have told him.

 

You know this, otherwise you would have not stopped things with this other guy. Now is the time to set things right with your husband.

[Spark1111]

In some states you can't even be granted a divorce unless you have been separated for a set period of time.

Sorry, but separated, is... separated... not together.

And "set things right with her husband?" Um... did you miss the part where they are getting divorced?

 

In the state I live in, a no-fault state, you are not separated until the state decrees that you are.

 

In other words, you can move out, but you are still legally married. Which means, if you do have sex with someone else, you did commit adultery.

 

I am amazed how many people do not realize this, and it comes back to bite them in the behind.

 

If you move out, and are NOT llegally separated, you have abandoned your spouse.

 

After one year, they can file for divorce on the grounds of abandonment, NOT separation as you did not hire a lawyer to legally separate.

[beenburned]

LFH,

 

Spark is right, until you obtain a LEGAL separation, you are considered still married in a lot of states. And committing adultery if not legally separated.

 

Here recently in my state, they have done away with legal separation all together. You are now married until you get divorced.

 

There are lots of laws people think need to be changed. But until they do, you need to abide by the law or pay the consequences.

[ForeverHopeful1]

Is there any chance that he thought you would get back together after you separated and therefore may have been crushed by you dating someone else before you got divorced? Was it a nail in the coffin type thing for him? I mean, if you didnt cheat before the separation, and only after the split, he most likely felt as if your issues were "resolvable" up until that point?

 

I am not sure what his exact intention was here, as it was stated above and deemed unnecessary, however, he may actually feel it is your fault for going outside the "marriage" before your divorce and felt as though you committed adultery. I know if the rolls were reversed, most women would feel the same. If your partner, went out and was with someone else before your divorce was even final, you wouldnt feel any warmth in your heart for it either. Just keeping it real. I would be pissed too... so as much of a low blow to you as it is, it probably killed him on the inside as well... Yes, it is a low blow to write something in a legal document that could have otherwise been left out, but in his mind he is probably thinking "this is a low blow and she could have at least waited until we were divorced and this man could have easily been left out the equation until that time."

[beenburned]

LFH,

 

In most states to be legally separated you must file legal paperwork that goes through the court system.

[SecretFlower]

^^ I am in talks with an attorney. Thank you all for all of the information regarding separation, I suppose I just never really considered that it would go like this. Like I said before, I really have no need for spousal support as I have a good job. We don't own a house together, it was my apartment and he moved out and besides a dog (which he doesn't want) we have nothing to bind us together. Unless he wants the couch; he bought the couch...So, that's it I guess. From the very little I know about divorce (again I've been kind of blindly letting him take the reins on this) in my state it is a no-fault state. We both went into this marriage with separate assets and monetary accounts, so I don't know what he can expect to get from me, as he's taken everything that was his to begin with.

 

Also, not in reply to you but to a previous poster, I resent the statement that because I had an affair I can't be a bit shocked or defend myself when I'm accused of something he knows isn't true. We didn't separate because he caught me in an affair or because I confessed to cheating. He left me, because I had one brief phone conversations with my x-MM and he took it as a sign that maybe, someday I might cheat on him.

 

If cheating is still possible while we're separated with no chance of reconciling than we are both guilty. He's told me he's trying to move on, so why shouldn't I be able to?

[nofool4u]

This is not entirely affair/OW related, but can I please rant for a moment? If you've read my posts you'll know my husband, who is divorcing me, has begun divorce proceedings and that our marriage has essentially fallen apart due to my previous relationships with a MM and his insecurities revolving my past.

 

Well since you are now resuming a "casual and cautious relationship" with the xMM, soon to be your MM again, that isn't your husband's insecurities, thats your husbands gut telling him he is right.

 

 

Anyways, I knew that we were divorcing and for the most part I'm trying to accept it, but this week I was served the papers and expected them to say the usual irreconcilable differences instead of what they did. Instead he cited adultery.

 

In a way, he can cite that, because since you are resuming a relationship with xMM, you obviously weren't faithful to your husband, emotionally anyway. Your H probably knows you have still wanted xMM all along.

[SecretFlower]

^^ I wasn't emotionally faithful to my husband? What? I can honestly tell you that I wanted to marry my husband. That I fell in love with him and I loved him (and still care for him) when he left me.

 

You're right maybe I jumped impulsively into a relationship when my marriage fell apart, but we've been separated for awhile now and I knew that the chance of us getting back together were slim at best.

 

I had one conversation with a man I once had a relationship with. You know what, people have friendships and conversations and close relationships with exes all the time, and I chose to not speak to my x for years because I knew it wasn't something I wanted. I never wanted to get back together with him. I never plotted and schemed how I would screw my husband over and get involved with my ex. I moved on and I met someone I loved and I honestly never considered leaving my husband for my x. But, you're telling me because I had one conversation, which was basically me apologizing for upsetting his ex-wife (in case I did) and him telling me he was sorry if it disrupted my life in anyway, that that's emotionally cheating?

 

That was it. No plans to meet up. No elaborate and romantic conversations. Why is it so impossible to imagine that I wasn't cheating? We are separated. I know we're divorcing and I think if he wants to go out and meet someone and date that that is fine. And, he's done that! So, why can't I?

[SecretFlower]

^^ I understand what you are saying and I made the conscious decision to not speak with my ex until my divorce was finalized and I could figure out what I want. He hasn't been too happy about that, but I think the only way for me to feel like myself again is to distance myself from him. As for your statement about not being able to be alone...That's completely possible. I honestly haven't been alone for 13 years. It's a bit pathetic. I know that I don't love him, but I do think he loves me, I love my husband and I'll readily admit I fell back into a relationship with my x because I was rebounding from my husband.

 

P.S. My marriage is totally over. I know there is no reconciling, not anymore.

[jmargel]

^^ I wasn't emotionally faithful to my husband? What? I can honestly tell you that I wanted to marry my husband. That I fell in love with him and I loved him (and still care for him) when he left me.

 

You're right maybe I jumped impulsively into a relationship when my marriage fell apart, but we've been separated for awhile now and I knew that the chance of us getting back together were slim at best.

 

I had one conversation with a man I once had a relationship with. You know what, people have friendships and conversations and close relationships with exes all the time, and I chose to not speak to my x for years because I knew it wasn't something I wanted. I never wanted to get back together with him. I never plotted and schemed how I would screw my husband over and get involved with my ex. I moved on and I met someone I loved and I honestly never considered leaving my husband for my x. But, you're telling me because I had one conversation, which was basically me apologizing for upsetting his ex-wife (in case I did) and him telling me he was sorry if it disrupted my life in anyway, that that's emotionally cheating?

 

That was it. No plans to meet up. No elaborate and romantic conversations. Why is it so impossible to imagine that I wasn't cheating? We are separated. I know we're divorcing and I think if he wants to go out and meet someone and date that that is fine. And, he's done that! So, why can't I?

 

No, that was you keeping your foot in the door. You wanted to see what this guy was upto, where he is in life. You care for him enough to call and remain contact. Do you honestly think it would be just one conversation? Your husband is right and apparently knows you quite well. Be upset if you want but you know it's the truth.

 

I'm sure your husband has had conversations with you regarding this other guy in the past and you ignored him. You knew that you were opening a can of worms and taking a chance on things happening when you called. There was NO reason to call this other guy. You should have left it alone.

 

Was he calling his ex's when he was with you? Doubt it. When he confronted you about you calling, you probably got defensive just as you are now and that made him even more suspecious. Most people who are involved in an affair and are asked questions about it from their spouse usually become very defensive.

 

Something tells me there were more issues in this marriage than just this phone call as well. There is something you are not telling us. If you want our help and our advice then you need to tell us the truth.

[SecretFlower]

Here's the full story.

 

My husband and I have been married for a short time. We have been together for several years, during which we both were accepting of each others past. Shortly before we got married, my MIL expressed some upset that he was marrying me as she thought I was a (in her words) "questionable character", but he married me anyways.

 

We were good, we went on our honeymoon and begin to get settled into normal life when I received an e-mail from my ex-MM's ex-wife. She said she had known for a few months that I was the OW and she wanted to meet me. I agreed, because I felt like I owed her that. I mean I had an affair with her husband for 7 years I owed her something. So, I went and it went like I expected. She blamed me and him for her troubles and I agreed for the most part. She asked me if he ever had considered leaving her and I said I didn't know. It was emotional and difficult and in the end we were left with a lot of hard feelings and no closure.

 

I had one phone conversation with x-MM. He asked me what I told her and I told him everything. He asked if I was okay and I wasn't, so he apologized if he had caused me any harm. We briefly discussed the hurt we had caused each other and agreed to end the conversation on a definite and friendly note. He wished me well in my marriage and I wished him well in his life. That was it.

 

Literally, the day after the conversation I told my husband because I didn't want any secrets and it was quite insignificant. I was closing a chapter in my life and I believed that. He exploded and was insistent that it meant that we would never meet. I should probably note that this was, like, 5 months into our relationship. We tried to make it work for about 2 more (maybe?) and it became clear we weren't happy. I didn't speak with x-MM until after he moved out and we made the decision to divorce.

 

Did I reach out to my x after he moved out? Yes. I did. My husband told me he was dating and I was lonely and reached out. Did we have a fling? Yes. Did I consider maybe having a deeper relationship with him after my husband moved out? Yes. Am I in a relationship with him right now? No, we are not speaking and I've made it clear I don't want to get involved until after I'm divorced and he's willing to wait for me.

 

My point isn't that I am a wronged wife or that I don't have a less than desirable past or that my husband or ex's ex-wife is to blame, but that I didn't do what he is accusing me of. An EA is not a twenty minute conversation.

 

A PA (IMO) is not an affair if both spouses are completely checked out of the relationship and attempting to move on. I think we're both checked out. I still care for him and I think he still cares for me. He cared for me enough to warn me about getting back into a relationship with my x. And, I listened. I ended it and have gone back to therapy to figure out my next steps. Again, I didn't cheat on my husband.

 

Also...For the record, my husband has always been friendly with his exes, and I'm dear friends with my ex-boyfriend, so the idea of communicating with exes is not a foreign one in our relationship. Or, at least it wasn't.

[eleanorrigby]

It would have been better for you had you talked to your husband before you made that call to your ex-MM and asked him how he felt about that and if he would want to be present for the conversation.

[SecretFlower]

If only hindsight wasn't 20/20. A lot of things would've been better if I could change them now.

[truthbetold]

One of the biggest problems I see with the above is you confided in your husband AFTER and not before the meeting. You were going to discuss an affair not swap recipes and I'm sure your husband would pick up on that too.

 

I'm not going to comment deeper on the boundary issues that perhaps you both have. (talking inappropriately with ex's) But you telling him after the fact would definiately add more fuel to the secretive fire.

[nofool4u]

Here's the full story.

 

My husband and I have been married for a short time. We have been together for several years, during which we both were accepting of each others past. Shortly before we got married, my MIL expressed some upset that he was marrying me as she thought I was a (in her words) "questionable character", but he married me anyways.

 

If his mother didn't know you were with a MM for 7 years, what was it she was basing her judgement on?

 

 

We were good, we went on our honeymoon and begin to get settled into normal life when I received an e-mail from my ex-MM's ex-wife. She said she had known for a few months that I was the OW and she wanted to meet me. I agreed, because I felt like I owed her that. I mean I had an affair with her husband for 7 years I owed her something. So, I went and it went like I expected. She blamed me and him for her troubles and I agreed for the most part.

 

Of course she is going to blame you for her troubles. And she can. But this is not to mean that she doesn't put the full blame on her husband. Its just when you are sitting in front of her, that is her opportunity to lash out at you.

So although she can blame you, even if it seems she was putting all of it on you, trust me, she blames her husband too.

 

 

Literally, the day after the conversation I told my husband because I didn't want any secrets and it was quite insignificant. I was closing a chapter in my life and I believed that. He exploded and was insistent that it meant that we would never meet. I should probably note that this was, like, 5 months into our relationship. We tried to make it work for about 2 more (maybe?) and it became clear we weren't happy. I didn't speak with x-MM until after he moved out and we made the decision to divorce.

 

Yes, you did. You already said MM called you and wanted to know what you and his wife talked about, and gave you the whole well wishing, goodbye kiss thing over the phone.

 

 

Did I reach out to my x after he moved out? Yes. I did. My husband told me he was dating and I was lonely and reached out.

 

Did we have a fling? Yes. Did I consider maybe having a deeper relationship with him after my husband moved out? Yes. Am I in a relationship with him right now? No, we are not speaking and I've made it clear I don't want to get involved until after I'm divorced and he's willing to wait for me.

 

Proving that your husband's reaction when he found out about you and MM was justified.

 

 

My point isn't that I am a wronged wife or that I don't have a less than desirable past or that my husband or ex's ex-wife is to blame, but that I didn't do what he is accusing me of.

 

Not sure I read what your H accused you of, but if it is in regards to "adultery", in some sense that is true. Its obvious you still wanted your xMM and are waiting for your divorce to be with him. Therefore, at the very least, you ARE guilty of emotional infidelity.

 

And in any case, if he wants to file on the grounds of adultery, let him. Seeing that you were emotionally unfaithful to him, just let him have that. Its just a reason to file for divorce. It won't make a bit of difference in splitting the marital assets. Although that may not be an issue seeing as you have only been married a short time. Not sure why an annulment may not be possible.

 

An EA is not a twenty minute conversation.

 

We aren't talking about a 20 minute conversation. We are talking about the obvious feelings you and MM have for one another, and you are paving the way to be with him after you are divorced.

 

And I'm quite sure you are happy about this and see your H divorcing you as a good thing so you can be with MM.

 

A PA (IMO) is not an affair if both spouses are completely checked out of the relationship and attempting to move on.

 

Bulls*** lady. Maybe that could be true if their spouses also felt the same.

But if they don't and think they are still working on a marriage(we know your stbXH isn't, but his wife probably is), then its an affair. During betrayal, the betrayers don't get to decide if its an affair, cheating or otherwise. That will be up to his wife.

 

 

I think we're both checked out. I still care for him and I think he still cares for me. He cared for me enough to warn me about getting back into a relationship with my x. And, I listened. I ended it and have gone back to therapy to figure out my next steps. Again, I didn't cheat on my husband.

 

Emotionally, yes, you did.

 

 

Also...For the record, my husband has always been friendly with his exes

 

Being friendly with X's, and immediately paving the way to be with them when you know a divorce is coming because you wanted him all along are 2 completely different things. Don't even try to attribute your character onto your stbXH.

Edited September 14, 2012 by nofool4u

[SecretFlower]

I think your assuming a lot about my character. Am I flawed? Absolutely, by I never went out of my way to hurt my husband. I understand that our pasts and our experiences cloud our judgement, and Lord knows mine has been clouded, but to automatically assume that I can't be a good person or be faithful is a bit hurtful. I'm not happy that my marriage is ending and I doubt there are very few people that don't mourn the end of their relationship.