How do you start an affair?

[2sure]

Pierre , I understand your thinking and do not disagree, both types have specific risk. With a married OW you have to really trust her ability to use discretion and hide everything from her spouse....because if he discovers, the affair will be blown wide open.

 

A single OW , with low expectations would mean James was taking advantage of someone's vulnerabilities and also, from what I've seen here....they get more attached which is risky business indeed.

 

In the past, I was single OW to MM several times...without drama . But it was different. I wasn't attached and I had expectations....that my rent be paid and my car be bought. It's the price of risk free affairs. I don't bring it up to discuss, but because I don't think James is looking for that.

 

Oh geez...I think it's all a bad, bad idea.

[AnotherRound]

Pierre , I understand your thinking and do not disagree, both types have specific risk. With a married OW you have to really trust her ability to use discretion and hide everything from her spouse....because if he discovers, the affair will be blown wide open.

 

A single OW , with low expectations would mean James was taking advantage of someone's vulnerabilities and also, from what I've seen here....they get more attached which is risky business indeed.

 

In the past, I was single OW to MM several times...without drama . But it was different. I wasn't attached and I had expectations....that my rent be paid and my car be bought. It's the price of risk free affairs. I don't bring it up to discuss, but because I don't think James is looking for that.

 

Oh geez...I think it's all a bad, bad idea.

 

I agree, I don't think he should embark on an A either. He has said that he isn't wanting to, but is feeling vulnerable to one. So, at least he's being proactive. But if his wife refuses to attempt at all to fix what's broken in the marriage (and maybe it's just not fixable, through no fault of hers at all), I'm not sure what his other options are. Just divorce? Which he does not want, according to him.

 

I think it's silly to assume that single OWs ALL have low expectations. LT As don't tend to be anything less than full blown relationships, and have expectations just like any other relationship. Just bc the expectation isn't that the AP leave their marriage, doesn't = low expectations. Just, different expectations.

[William]

Since I already infracted out the off-topic posters at Stage Two, from now on each off-topic post will gather two points.

 

Let's stick to the thread topic, which is how do you start and affair, and keep comments relevant to the thread starter's specific circumstances. Thank you.

[AnotherRound]

I apologize if I sound rude, but you are operating under an assumption and that becomes your justification.

 

I know quite well nice normal good people have affairs. Infidelity is a normal part of the human experience and I do not put down any one for participating in that activity.

 

However, some folks simply want to present an image of piety that does not fit their behavior. Just say I had an affair because there were no good SG available at the time and I wanted someone to meet my needs. No need to provide any more excuses.

 

Well, if that was the case, that's what I would say. Not everything is justifications, sometimes, it's just truth. I can't help it if you refuse to believe it. Your world must be very small?

 

That's what is frustrating, that you are assuming that I'm trying to present as if I'm Mother Teresa, and I have NEVER said that, or insinuated that I don't make mistakes. Or, that the A wasn't a mistake. I walked away for that very reason, bc I was never comfortable with it. That is truth, whether you believe it or not. But I do know what I know, and his wife was VERY aware of me. You can choose not to believe it, that's fine. But please stop trying to change the reality by assuming that I'm justifying.

 

The reality is the reality, whether you like it, agree with it, or are convinced it's justification. You're simply calling me a liar, and I don't appreciate it. I have never lied to his wife, and I wouldn't have. Just because you think you can turn a word, doesn't mean I don't know when someone is attacking me. You can refrain from responding to me and just rest assured in your own mind that I'm justifying. I heard you, I know what you believe and think, you're wrong, it's irrelevant anyway, so now you can stop with the jabs. Thanks...

[ThatJustHappened]

And PS... had exMMs stbxw EVER asked me about anything, I would not have lied. Not directly and not by omission. She chose to not know the details, and that's her right, and is what was best for her in her mind I guess. I'm not going to force anything on anyone, and I didn't think it my place to provide her the gory details if she didn't want to know them. I think that would have been cruel, and exMMs second OW DID do this to stbxw, and it was cruel, and so unnecessary, imo.

 

I offered her the information, she hung the phone up. I can't do much more than that. And, when she made comments to exMM, and he attempted to discuss it with her, she refused to discuss it. So, sometimes, people just do not want to know the truth or all the details. They want the status quo just as much as the WS, and so it conitinues. ExMMs stbxw even stated recently that had the new OW not made such "scenes" so that the neighbors and everyone knew about the marriage failing that it "would probably still be going on like normal". That's how reluctant she was to deal with or handle her marriage.

 

So, although I can understand that the BS gets a lot of sympathy, not all BSs are "in the dark" or being lied to or being kept out of the loop. So, to just make a blanket statement that in order to be involved in a relationship outside of your marriage you have to be a consistent liar, is, imo, false.

 

Being in denial is not the same as acceptance. Just because she knew about it doesn't mean she believed it, nor does it mean she was ok with it. Being cheated on is one of the worst feelings in the world..the BS does as much justifying as the OW.

[AnotherRound]

Since I already infracted out the off-topic posters at Stage Two, from now on each off-topic post will gather two points.

 

Let's stick to the thread topic, which is how do you start and affair, and keep comments relevant to the thread starter's specific circumstances. Thank you.

 

What does this mean? I'm new, so not sure exactly... if you could explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks... (I'm sure my responses to Pierre were off topic, sorry!)

[AnotherRound]

Being in denial is not the same as acceptance. Just because she knew about it doesn't mean she believed it, nor does it mean she was ok with it. Being cheated on is one of the worst feelings in the world..the BS does as much justifying as the OW.

 

I agree. As a former BS though, I handled it. As unpleasant as it was, I handled it. I don't think that she was in denial, she knew. I'm not saying that I blame her for not wanting to handle it, I get it. I'm just saying, that sometimes, it's not a secret, and doesn't require lying. Not that that makes it any better, just different. The comment was that to be in an A you have to learn to lie constantly, and that's just not true for all As.

[ThatJustHappened]

I agree. As a former BS though, I handled it. As unpleasant as it was, I handled it. I don't think that she was in denial, she knew. I'm not saying that I blame her for not wanting to handle it, I get it. I'm just saying, that sometimes, it's not a secret, and doesn't require lying. Not that that makes it any better, just different. The comment was that to be in an A you have to learn to lie constantly, and that's just not true for all As.

 

That's your opinion. You have no idea what she was thinking, or what your MM was telling her. He could easily have been lying to both of you.

 

James, this is exactly why you should talk to your wife before acting. Going behind her back just hurts EVERYBODY involved.

[justwhoiam]

James, since many readers who 'hang out' in the infidelity and OW/OM forums are not aware of your history, I hope you won't mind if I post up the link to part of it:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/201696-if-you-want-sex-then-you-will-have-get-somewhere-else

 

The discussion within should provide clarity for respondents.

I'm sorry to hear about this. She broke the vows she made the day she married you. She is not caring about you, she's not loving, she left you alone on that. I don't know if you had a religious wedding or a civil one, but she obviously gave up on your marriage.

 

You got it when you wrote this: "Why can one person withhold sex and not be considered a cheater, while if the other one gets it elsewhere, he or she is a cheater? Technically, both are cheaters." She is at fault, and you are keeping your vows while she decided not to keep them anymore. Is it worth it?

 

You are now vulnerable to anyone new entering your life. You might fall for a woman really bad. I don't know how old you are, but you might have strong feelings again, better than you ever had when you were 18 or 20. And get hard better than you ever did when you were a teen. Like a second youth.

 

I don't want to develop feelings towards anyone.

Why? Wouldn't you like being in love again? And walk on sunshine? Are you being apathic?

 

I don't want to end the marriage for many reasons, but one big one stands out: children. It is not an excuse. It is a real reason. When I envision how their faces will look and how it will affect their lives, my heart breaks for them. And to do that all because of a lack of sex? Surely I have better options even if she no longer wants sex. And for this reason an affair seems less than desirable.

Ah, that's it. I guess you need love & sex, not just sex. A woman loving you would make you a better man, fulfilled, joyful, happy, confident, etc. A woman appreciating every cell of your body, and soul, loving you for who you are. Wouldn't you like that. A very devoted woman who can kiss where you walk. A woman who loves her children and your children as much as you love yours and wouldn't hurt you no matter what (provided you wouldn't hurt her either). Someone you can trust like yourself. Like a wife. But MUCH more than your current wife. Someone who understands your priorities (children) and would never enter into competition with them.

 

If you find a woman like that, you win the lottery. As your children grow, you can eventually drop the unloving spouse and marry the woman you deserve and who's very devoted to you. Sex is not just a physical action, it's a way to show and prove one's love and devotion. It's about giving and sharing. It's about affection. If all of that is missing, the marriage is just on the paper.

 

As others told you, don't start an affair at work. The workplace is often a place where much talk goes on, if something goes wrong, anybody would know, your days would be as hard as hell etc.

 

Be social as much as you can. If your ex schoolmates arrange a meeting, if you travel for work, etc. And start talking to women every day, whenever you get a chance, when you eat out, on the train, bus, underground, plane, airport, museums, at the mall, any place can really do.

[AnotherRound]

That's your opinion. You have no idea what she was thinking, or what your MM was telling her. He could easily have been lying to both of you.

 

James, this is exactly why you should talk to your wife before acting. Going behind her back just hurts EVERYBODY involved.

 

Fair enough. It appeared to me that James WOULD discuss this with her, as they already have to some extent. So, his A would not require lying, at least that's what it sounded like to me. I was simply sharing my experience that the A I was involved in did not include lying either, and that it is possible to have an A with the marriage partner being aware (even without the details).

 

I stand by the fact that I think James will have more heartache if he goes the A route, bc he sounds like he still wants to be in the marriage.

 

Best of luck James...

[AnotherRound]

I'm sorry to hear about this. She broke the vows she made the day she married you. She is not caring about you, she's not loving, she left you alone on that. I don't know if you had a religious wedding or a civil one, but she obviously gave up on your marriage.

 

You got it when you wrote this: "Why can one person withhold sex and not be considered a cheater, while if the other one gets it elsewhere, he or she is a cheater? Technically, both are cheaters." She is at fault, and you are keeping your vows while she decided not to keep them anymore. Is it worth it?

 

You are now vulnerable to anyone new entering your life. You might fall for a woman really bad. I don't know how old you are, but you might have strong feelings again, better than you ever had when you were 18 or 20. And get hard better than you ever did when you were a teen. Like a second youth.

 

Why? Wouldn't you like being in love again? And walk on sunshine? Are you being apathic?

 

Ah, that's it. I guess you need love & sex, not just sex. A woman loving you would make you a better man, fulfilled, joyful, happy, confident, etc. A woman appreciating every cell of your body, and soul, loving you for who you are. Wouldn't you like that. A very devoted woman who can kiss where you walk. A woman who loves her children and your children as much as you love yours and wouldn't hurt you no matter what (provided you wouldn't hurt her either). Someone you can trust like yourself. Like a wife. But MUCH more than your current wife. Someone who understands your priorities (children) and would never enter into competition with them.

 

If you find a woman like that, you win the lottery. As your children grow, you can eventually drop the unloving spouse and marry the woman you deserve and who's very devoted to you. Sex is not just a physical action, it's a way to show and prove one's love and devotion. It's about giving and sharing. It's about affection. If all of that is missing, the marriage is just on the paper.

 

As others told you, don't start an affair at work. The workplace is often a place where much talk goes on, if something goes wrong, anybody would know, your days would be as hard as hell etc.

 

Be social as much as you can. If your ex schoolmates arrange a meeting, if you travel for work, etc. And start talking to women every day, whenever you get a chance, when you eat out, on the train, bus, underground, plane, airport, museums, at the mall, any place can really do.

 

I agree that his wife has broken her side of the contract. I think that James should explore this with her, to see if there is a solution before he does anything outside of the marriage. If she refuses to communicate about it, or attempt to fix it (if it's even fixable, it may not be), then I suggest a divorce, as complicated as that can be.

 

I've said it a thousand times, everyone deserves to be in a fulfilling relationship. When one partner that you are contracted to decides that your happiness isn't important to them, it's a bit hypocritical for them to expect their partner to respect their happiness at that point, imo.

[William]

What does this mean? I'm new, so not sure exactly... if you could explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks... (I'm sure my responses to Pierre were off topic, sorry!)

Announcements at the top of each forum outline moderation policies. Suffice to say that postings which address the topic and the thread starter in a civil and respectful manner will not be infracted. Any others will be infracted until the thread is clear or the posters are banned. Thanks for the question.

 

JamesM, as thread starter, if you wish further input, please alert on this post and request it. Until then, I'm going to close this so I don't have to monitor it and so posters can retain their posting privileges.