How do you start an affair?

[Got it]

Mine started as coworkers, we worked on some projects together and really clicked. Ended up at a happy hour together (ended up is the wrong word as we actively made sure we were there) and continued to flirt. One thing led to another and I asked him "is there something going on between us?" (in my defense I haven't dated a whole lot and I am normally as subtle as a 2x4 )

 

It started off with dates, getting to know each other. I thought it was going to be a fling but once we had sex a few times I realized I couldn't let him go! lol He was/is amazing in bed. Whew!

[MissBee]

Okay, that may seem like a weird question, but since I am in a sexless marriage and I know that I am in a position that makes me like the idea of an affair....I ask the question.

 

How does an affair start? How did your start? Did you know he or she was married? What did you seek from the affair or looking back...what do you get from the affair?

 

In a general way, boundary crossing leads to affairs. For many people they will say it "just happened"...i.e. while they did not set out to have an affair, they still engaged in a relationship with a married/committed person that was in some way inappropriate or based on loose boundaries, which resulted in lines being blurred, feelings developing and then from then on "one thing led to another".

 

I didn't seek an affair but I imagine some married people do seek it out, like you are. My former AP was "committed" but not married. I did not know he was involved with someone else when we first started speaking. I didn't seek anything, as I wasn't seeking an affair, but I got friendship, love, attention, gifts, sex as well as frustration, drama, heartache.

 

Why do you like your MM or MW as compared to your spouse? As far as looks or personality, how does your affair partner compare to your spouse?

Maybe this should be in infidelity, since most here are the OW/OM, although I imagine you can be a married OW or married OM...but generally the unmarried people post here. This doesn't apply to me as I was unmarried/not committed to anyone else while in the A.

 

 

How do/did you keep it a secret? How long have you been in it? Is it still as enjoyable? What do you see as the future of your affair?

 

I'm not still in it but when I was, I couldn't envision how a future would be possible. I didn't have to keep it a secret...I would be curious to know how he did though . Although some logistics made sense, his gf worked out of town a large part of the time so they weren't under the same roof, and it was long distance between us...so perfect. He had two women, who logistically were not in the same place as each other or as him all the time, so keeping things separate was easy. But mostly because they weren't living together and he was traveling, he had loads of built in excuses that wouldn't seem weird and this person isn't in your face 24/7 to see what you're doing. I'm sure he had to lie and or omit to both of us and do other things to keep it secret from her..but I didn't personally have to tell any lies or hide anything.

 

Any other info?

 

Just curious.

 

My answers are in bold.

Edited September 11, 2012 by MissBee

[PixieD]

James,

 

Going down the road of an A even with your W's explicit permission is not an easy road. I know I've been in a similar situation, but for different reasons. You may think you will be able to separate and compartmentalize the physical side of sex from the emotional intimacy side. It isn't that easy and it doesn't work. Sex is an intimate act that bring out emotion in all of us. From raw pleasure to tenderness. Very few people can bare themselves this deep and not build a bond with the person that is taking you there.

 

As someone else pointed out, you may find that after you develop intimacy with an AP you begin to see the other things in that are missing from your M. You may start out thinking you are only missing the sex, but an A has a way of shining a very bright light on your M. You begin to compare the two, which in many ways isn't fair to the M because the intensity of an A makes it often seem like more than it really is. It's eating the dessert without having to chop all the veggies and prepare the dinner first.

 

My A ended after 8 months, with both of us parting ways amicably but abruptly and even though it's been 5 months of NC I still haven't gotten over it. I'm in IC and dealing with a lot of pain. When things fall apart they have a way of adding to the challenges at home. Only with IC am I learning how to put back together all the pieces.

 

Tread very carefully, because an A is a genie that you can't put back in the bottle.

[amaysngrace]

James I'm sorry that you're going through this right now. You're a good man and I've always thought highly of you.

 

You have been through more than your fair share of ups and downs with your wife and I really feel badly that it's come to this.

 

Please figure out what will make you happy and follow that road.

 

I know it isn't easy being with your wife sometimes and I know it's not her fault that things happened to her, but it is her fault if she refuses help when she needs it to fix this.

 

You have been more than terrific for her so please be good to yourself now.

 

XO

[KathyM]

I'm going to suggest that you do the honorable thing--make every effort to work out your issues with your wife, through counseling or whatever means necessary. If you can't overcome your issues with your wife after exhausting all means to do so, then tell her you're not willing to be in a sexless marriage and are going to separate. Then do it--separate. If she values you and the marriage enough, she won't let you go. If she doesn't, then you are free to go and find another relationship. Don't try to keep your marriage going while having an affair. It's not fair to anyone--not to you, your wife or your AP. Do the honorable thing and either fix your marriage, or leave it.

[Got it]

I'm going to suggest that you do the honorable thing--make every effort to work out your issues with your wife, through counseling or whatever means necessary. If you can't overcome your issues with your wife after exhausting all means to do so, then tell her you're not willing to be in a sexless marriage and are going to separate. Then do it--separate. If she values you and the marriage enough, she won't let you go. If she doesn't, then you are free to go and find another relationship. Don't try to keep your marriage going while having an affair. It's not fair to anyone--not to you, your wife or your AP. Do the honorable thing and either fix your marriage, or leave it.

 

Isn't it honorable as well, if they are both in agreement that he should seek his sexual needs elsewhere and not end the marriage? I think that as long as they are both on the same page it can be a happy compromise. Understandably not everyone would want to go down this road but an open marriage is an option.

[ThatJustHappened]

Isn't it honorable as well, if they are both in agreement that he should seek his sexual needs elsewhere and not end the marriage? I think that as long as they are both on the same page it can be a happy compromise. Understandably not everyone would want to go down this road but an open marriage is an option.

 

But he needs to check in with his wife before he does anything, to make sure she is really ok with it. She may have just been saying that out of anger..people say things they don't mean all the time.

[Got it]

I agree. Like I posted early, half joking, I would get it in writing to make sure there is no misunderstanding. From what he has said, it has been said multiple times and not in an argument so it would appear to be acceptable but one shouldn't assume.

 

It is a hard road to go that can be fraught with emotional complications on both ends. It is not one that I would think both parties would want to go down until they had exhausted all other avenues to turn his wife's sex life around but that is an assumption on my part and others may think differently.

[JamesM]

I'm going to suggest that you do the honorable thing--make every effort to work out your issues with your wife, through counseling or whatever means necessary. If you can't overcome your issues with your wife after exhausting all means to do so, then tell her you're not willing to be in a sexless marriage and are going to separate. Then do it--separate. If she values you and the marriage enough, she won't let you go. If she doesn't, then you are free to go and find another relationship. Don't try to keep your marriage going while having an affair. It's not fair to anyone--not to you, your wife or your AP. Do the honorable thing and either fix your marriage, or leave it.

 

Thanks for your feedback. I think if you read all my past threads (my first one was deleted) back to December 200, then you would see that I have exhausted many options and researched all possible reasons for a low libido. I don't say that I got them ALL but I can say that I discussed most every one with my wife over the years. We did have "a talk" that brought about change for some months probably because she was afraid of losing me then. As I have seen with others here, once that fear disappeared so did her high libido.

 

I have said a few times here that I was told I was vulnerable, so it made me think of this question: how did your affair start? If I said differently, then I apologize, but truthfully, I don't want an affair and am not actively seeking one out.

 

Oddly enough, I don't want to end the marriage for many reasons, but one big one stands out: children. It is not an excuse. It is a real reason. When I envision how their faces will look and how it will affect their lives, my heart breaks for them. And to do that all because of a lack of sex? Surely I have better options even if she no longer wants sex. And for this reason an affair seems less than desirable.

 

Isn't it honorable as well, if they are both in agreement that he should seek his sexual needs elsewhere and not end the marriage? I think that as long as they are both on the same page it can be a happy compromise. Understandably not everyone would want to go down this road but an open marriage is an option.

 

I don't want to go down that road either.

 

But he needs to check in with his wife before he does anything, to make sure she is really ok with it. She may have just been saying that out of anger..people say things they don't mean all the time.

 

I think she said it out of anger, and I have said that before. But her actions or lack of actions have shown that she isn't interested in keeping me from that option.

 

Having an affair is not necessarily the best way to accomplish this though.

[KathyM]

Isn't it honorable as well, if they are both in agreement that he should seek his sexual needs elsewhere and not end the marriage? I think that as long as they are both on the same page it can be a happy compromise. Understandably not everyone would want to go down this road but an open marriage is an option.

I don't consider an open marriage to be an honorable thing. I think he'll be short-changing himself and sacrificing his own honor by going outside of his marriage, as well as putting his marriage in jeopardy, putting his emotions at risk, which takes away from the marriage, and puts his AP at risk of an emotional investment in a situation that is a dead-end for her. No one wins in this scenario. Better to leave a marriage and then start an authentic relationship that you can fully invest in, rather than an unhealthy triangle. Triangle relationships are never healthy for anyone.

[KathyM]

Thanks for your feedback. I think if you read all my past threads (my first one was deleted) back to December 200, then you would see that I have exhausted many options and researched all possible reasons for a low libido. I don't say that I got them ALL but I can say that I discussed most every one with my wife over the years. We did have "a talk" that brought about change for some months probably because she was afraid of losing me then. As I have seen with others here, once that fear disappeared so did her high libido.

 

I have said a few times here that I was told I was vulnerable, so it made me think of this question: how did your affair start? If I said differently, then I apologize, but truthfully, I don't want an affair and am not actively seeking one out.

 

Oddly enough, I don't want to end the marriage for many reasons, but one big one stands out: children. It is not an excuse. It is a real reason. When I envision how their faces will look and how it will affect their lives, my heart breaks for them. And to do that all because of a lack of sex? Surely I have better options even if she no longer wants sex. And for this reason an affair seems less than desirable.

 

 

 

I don't want to go down that road either.

 

 

 

I think she said it out of anger, and I have said that before. But her actions or lack of actions have shown that she isn't interested in keeping me from that option.

 

Having an affair is not necessarily the best way to accomplish this though.

I admire that you are sticking this out, and are so reluctant to go down this road to an affair. Regardless of what your wife does, you have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning, and live with your choices and decide what type of man you want to be. You obviously care very much about your children, which is one big reason you are staying in the marriage. Don't do something that is going to tarnish their respect for you. Children are very perceptive, and you are their role model. Your wife's interest in sex greatly improved when she thought she was going to lose you. Maybe it's time for another shake up.

[Got it]

Why wouldn't you discuss it then and get it agreed upon openly? I agree that her actions are not showing she is interested and her actions haven't been in the best interest of the marriage or of your relationship. But if you don't get that clearly laid out you are doing with many of us did and all of that will be negated if/when the affair is exposed.

 

You have very valid complaints right now and a lot of ground to stand on. If you suspect that your wife would not accept the affair, based on your reasoning, if you think that there is a chance she would say that she wanted to have the opportunity to fix things for herself, you are chancing blowing up everything else positive you say you get out of your marriage.

 

I had my affair because I was leaving my marriage and so while I didn't want to hurt his feelings, and never told him, I also left within a month. If you want a future with her you are gambling a lot by having the affair.

 

Just my two cents. I want to support you on this. I am just worried that hindsight may show you a different picture. Think everything through before you proceed weighing the pros and the cons on all possible outcomes.

[JamesM]

Don't do something that is going to tarnish their respect for you. Children are very perceptive, and you are their role model. Your wife's interest in sex greatly improved when she thought she was going to lose you. Maybe it's time for another shake up.

 

Thank you. This is what I tell myself, too. Another shakeup? It is an option. Problem is...I know what will happen this time, and won't believe that any change will last. Anything short of a continual reminder will give a short term response I am afraid.

 

And no, I am not excited about an affair. I have had a couple of women over the years hint at something, but I tend to compare them to the wife she was and not the wife she is. So everyone loses. Who knows? If someone approached me today, my response may be different. Thankfully that probably won't happen. And it is hard for me to approach someone, "Hi, I am James. Will you have an affair with me?"

 

I had my affair because I was leaving my marriage and so while I didn't want to hurt his feelings, and never told him, I also left within a month. If you want a future with her you are gambling a lot by having the affair.

 

Just my two cents. I want to support you on this. I am just worried that hindsight may show you a different picture. Think everything through before you proceed weighing the pros and the cons on all possible outcomes.

 

I agree and it is nice to have someone plainly state it. So far when I weigh the pros and cons, the cons outweigh the pros. But then there is no actual person. And for me to start flirting with an affair in mind...just not me. Being friendly with people and being a listener? Easy and I do it all f the time. But actually flirting? It not only doesn't feel right, but it seems too superficial.

 

Now, are there any more who could tell how their affair started? Was it a conscious effort planned out or was it an "accident" that (when looking back) seems almost unbelievable?

[JamesM]

Since you're curious....

 

There are many ways for an A to start. Mine was pretty direct. I spent ages checking him out at a distance and researching him carefully before approaching him with a proposition. So yes, I knew he was M and also that he had no plans to leave his M, which suited me. I wanted an A, I did not want a full time R and I did not want anything serious.

 

I was not married, though I had been years before, so there were no comparisons to make with spouses from my side.

 

We did not keep it a secret, except from his BW and even that was not an act of great subterfuge, since they hardly spoke and not about anything important so he simply did not have cause or occasion to mention it at that stage. The A ran for about 3 years I'd guess, and the enjoyment never paled, but what did change was our feelings. We fell in live and wanted to be together so he left his BW and we are now together. It wasn't what we'd planned but we're happy.

 

Given your situation, if you were to pursue such a course I would suggest using one of those online dating services that hook up married men with single / married women looking for an A. There is a greater chance of keeping it clinical and detached if there is an element of transaction to it. If you meet through work or through a mutual pastime or such there is a risk of you having more in common and maybe becoming friends and then feelings could develop from there.

 

Thank you for being honest and telling your story. Wonder what I would do in his situation?

[Snowflower]

. And for me to start flirting with an affair in mind...just not me. Being friendly with people and being a listener? Easy and I do it all f the time. But actually flirting? It not only doesn't feel right, but it seems too superficial.

 

 

No flirting necessary!

 

Actually, the bolded part that you wrote above...well that is a first step. Think about this example and it is all too common: there is a woman at work with whom you have always been polite. She seems nice and usually you just talk about work-a project you are both working on or whatever casual work-related banter you can think of.

 

One day at work, this same woman seems a little off, a little upset. You, being the friendly guy that you are, ask her what is wrong. She tells you that her husband/boyfriend/SO has done/said something hurtful. You, being the self-described good listener, start listening to her troubles. You begin sharing your frustrations, a little at a time, about your marriage...

 

You see where this is going, James?

 

Affairs don't usually start with flirty behavior (although sometimes they do). No, usually it is more insidious than that.

[ThatJustHappened]

Thanks for your feedback. I think if you read all my past threads (my first one was deleted) back to December 200, then you would see that I have exhausted many options and researched all possible reasons for a low libido. I don't say that I got them ALL but I can say that I discussed most every one with my wife over the years. We did have "a talk" that brought about change for some months probably because she was afraid of losing me then. As I have seen with others here, once that fear disappeared so did her high libido.

 

I have said a few times here that I was told I was vulnerable, so it made me think of this question: how did your affair start? If I said differently, then I apologize, but truthfully, I don't want an affair and am not actively seeking one out.

 

Oddly enough, I don't want to end the marriage for many reasons, but one big one stands out: children. It is not an excuse. It is a real reason. When I envision how their faces will look and how it will affect their lives, my heart breaks for them. And to do that all because of a lack of sex? Surely I have better options even if she no longer wants sex. And for this reason an affair seems less than desirable.

 

 

 

I don't want to go down that road either.

 

 

 

I think she said it out of anger, and I have said that before. But her actions or lack of actions have shown that she isn't interested in keeping me from that option.

 

Having an affair is not necessarily the best way to accomplish this though.

 

Yay! Good for you! So have you tried couples counseling?

[AnotherRound]

Many men can resist when a pursuing woman offers sex, however, some women do a very convincing job. In the end it all comes down to whether you can be a liar on a consistent basis.

 

Except, not all As are being lied about. Some people are aware that their spouse is having an A from the get go, and just choose to look the other way. I guess that is an open relationship in a way. If he and his wife agreed to this set up, why would he need to lie? Who would be lying to whom? It wouldn't be necessary. I'm not saying flaunt it in her face, but there would be no need to lie, so no, he wouldn't have to be a "consistent liar". Not all As are secrets, nor require lying.

[ThatJustHappened]

Except, not all As are being lied about. Some people are aware that their spouse is having an A from the get go, and just choose to look the other way. I guess that is an open relationship in a way. If he and his wife agreed to this set up, why would he need to lie? Who would be lying to whom? It wouldn't be necessary. I'm not saying flaunt it in her face, but there would be no need to lie, so no, he wouldn't have to be a "consistent liar". Not all As are secrets, nor require lying.

 

If that's the case, would it really be considered an affair, or would you just call it an agreement? The nature of an affair is that it's a secret, isn't it?

[JamesM]

No flirting necessary!

 

Actually, the bolded part that you wrote above...well that is a first step. Think about this example and it is all too common: there is a woman at work with whom you have always been polite. She seems nice and usually you just talk about work-a project you are both working on or whatever casual work-related banter you can think of.

 

 

 

Affairs don't usually start with flirty behavior (although sometimes they do). No, usually it is more insidious than that.

 

When I typed that, I thought of the scenario you posted. In fact, I remember very clearly about a girl who confided in me alot and it eventually came to be about her marriage. I enjoyed listening to her and giving some input. But I (thankfully) didn't feel anything more than that. She on the other hand must have. One day, she came to me and said she needed to quit talking to me about her problems, because she was feeling too much of an attraction for me. And so it did end. I respected her for that and stayed good friends...at work only.

 

So, I know that danger, and try always to remember her when I listen to other women. For me, the more dangerous type is the one who would approach and say that she wants me and is attracted to me...not the one who is a close friend.

 

Yay! Good for you! So have you tried couples counseling?

 

Thank you. No.

[carhill]

OP, would you agree with this definition of 'affair' as it applies to your potential circumstances?

 

Affair may also describe part of an agreement within an open marriage or open relationship, such as swinging, dating, or polyamory, in which some forms of sex with one's non-primary partner(s) are permitted and other forms are not.

 

Is so, then let's go with that and not get caught up in semantics. You could use 'disclosed adultery' too, along with a number of other descriptions.

 

 

Since you apparently have not tried couples counseling, perhaps a clear conversation on the nuts and bolts of the description offered above and then acting on that conversation may provide a point of desire for MC from your W. As part of the conversation, make it clear that MC is always an option, concurrent with getting your needs and wants met, not instead of. This is a multi-year, nearly a decade of 'lack', so W doesn't get a free lunch with MC, or else it becomes yet another stalling tactic. Lead. Be firm yet compassionate.

[ThatJustHappened]

When I typed that, I thought of the scenario you posted. In fact, I remember very clearly about a girl who confided in me alot and it eventually came to be about her marriage. I enjoyed listening to her and giving some input. But I (thankfully) didn't feel anything more than that. She on the other hand must have. One day, she came to me and said she needed to quit talking to me about her problems, because she was feeling too much of an attraction for me. And so it did end. I respected her for that and stayed good friends...at work only.

 

So, I know that danger, and try always to remember her when I listen to other women. For me, the more dangerous type is the one who would approach and say that she wants me and is attracted to me...not the one who is a close friend.

 

 

 

Thank you. No.

 

It's worth considering. It would help you and your wife come up with a solution to all of this.

[ThatJustHappened]

I agree!

Perhaps she was implying that lies by omission are not considered lies.

 

indeed!

[AnotherRound]

If that's the case, would it really be considered an affair, or would you just call it an agreement? The nature of an affair is that it's a secret, isn't it?

 

I'm not sure about this. I call what I had with exMM an A, bc it was outside of his marriage. But it was not a secret. I mean, we didn't flaunt it, bc whether anyone believes it or not, we weren't trying to hurt his stbxw, nor were we trying to throw it in her face that he was with me. But, it wasn't a secret. We weren't out posting fliers, but we weren't hiding it from her at all, and she was complicit in her silence and refusal to address anything. And she did make comments, but then refused to discuss it. So, as far as he and I were concerned, they would maintain their appearances of marriage, especially for the sake of their child, and he and I would continue. Eventually, I just got tired of the non-action from both of them, and I left the triangle. And she knew when I left, and she knew when he got a new OW. So, nobody was being lied to, and she didn't ask for details, so I'm not sure there was even omission as much as just not rubbing it in her face.

 

So, maybe some, or even most, As are secret... but definitely not all.

[AnotherRound]

And PS... had exMMs stbxw EVER asked me about anything, I would not have lied. Not directly and not by omission. She chose to not know the details, and that's her right, and is what was best for her in her mind I guess. I'm not going to force anything on anyone, and I didn't think it my place to provide her the gory details if she didn't want to know them. I think that would have been cruel, and exMMs second OW DID do this to stbxw, and it was cruel, and so unnecessary, imo.

 

I offered her the information, she hung the phone up. I can't do much more than that. And, when she made comments to exMM, and he attempted to discuss it with her, she refused to discuss it. So, sometimes, people just do not want to know the truth or all the details. They want the status quo just as much as the WS, and so it conitinues. ExMMs stbxw even stated recently that had the new OW not made such "scenes" so that the neighbors and everyone knew about the marriage failing that it "would probably still be going on like normal". That's how reluctant she was to deal with or handle her marriage.

 

So, although I can understand that the BS gets a lot of sympathy, not all BSs are "in the dark" or being lied to or being kept out of the loop. So, to just make a blanket statement that in order to be involved in a relationship outside of your marriage you have to be a consistent liar, is, imo, false.

[2sure]

I'm sure this has been asked but I want to be clear on this. James, I don't interact much with you but I do know the backstory and know you're a good guy. You're marriage , your wife, is impossible for you in some big ways...and she seems to knowingly be encouraging you to find sex elsewhere.

 

Do you think that when she says that....she understands the risk, the ramifications, the logistics? Does she imagine that you will once in awhile obtain services or meet some random anonymous willing partner? Does she realize that even if she doesn't want to know about it she will have to comes to terms with the fact that you will engage in , at the very least, an intimate friendship?

 

What I'm saying is that until its done, neither of you know how this will affect your lives.

 

From what Ive read about your wife...she uses withholding intimacy like a passive aggressive weapon. I get that for medical or emotional reasons she has zero sex drive. I think that when she sees you giving up, she offers a little...just so she can withhold it again. She doesn't want it, but wants you to want it.

 

Anyway, I suggest you choose a married OW. Look on Ashley Madison or some such. AF seems , somehow more skanky.