Another marriage rant...but not quite sexless!

[Mr. Lucky]

you may not relish the possibility, but the timing of your wife's decline in sexual and emotional desire for you being in her 40's, strongly suggests she had a mid-life crisis affair or fling of some kind during that period. It may have been physical, it may have been only emotional, it may have been both--but something happened in her 40's to cause this. Cause and effect--there is no effect without a cause.

 

Many/most affairs are never found out.

 

If your wife strayed for a while in the past, ever since then, she could be holding out a torch for that fantasy, nursing it, rewriting your marriage, allowing the resentment against you to grow over time. The affair itself and her guilt over it would also cause a huge emotional wall between the two of you.

I don't think the timing suggests this at all and this possibility has already been considered and rejected by the OP. There are many reasons for changes in the sexuality of 40-year old women and the resulting impact, either positive or negative, on long term marriages. In functioning marriages - and other than sexually, James seems pretty content - "she's had an affair" is rarely the answer, even though it seems to be some poster's favorite response...

 

Mr. Lucky

[tommyr]

James, indulge me in this analogy for a moment.

 

Pretend that when you and wife got together you were both very into... eating gourmet ice cream!

You would enjoy this together on a regular basis. This continued well into your marriage.

Weekly visits to the local creamery and mutual enjoyment were a major part of your relationship.

 

But then years later, your own eating habits and tastes changed. Maybe even some physical changes

in your digestive tract, so that now eating ice cream wasn't pleasurable for you, but actually uncomfortable.

Meanwhile, your wife still had the same regular cravings for gourmet ice cream.

But you James neither WANT to go out for ice cream, nor do you much enjoy it.

 

Here we have a problem in the marriage. She still desires ice cream, you don't.

She keeps having "talks" with you about how you always loved ice cream together, and why

don't you go out more often? You James (being a poor communicator) rather avoid

the topic entirely and just focus on all the other great aspects of marriage.

She starts resenting you for your change of taste. She wants the old ice-cream-loving James back.

You want her to just grow up and forget about the damned childish ice cream.

 

Now is it reasonable for her to expect you to ever regain your long-lost zeal for ice cream?

I say NO!!!! She should not expect that.

 

But what if she asked you to join her for a weekly trip to the same ice creamery where you both first met and fell in love?

Imagine she came to you and spoke clearly (without resentment or threats) about this need she has, and you once shared, and that she is so miserable about her unmet desire for ice cream, that she is even contemplating leaving the marriage or finding somebody else to go with.

 

Would you James go along with her?

Yes, you would go! Not because you have any desire or intention to eat any ice cream (cup of coffee instead?). You would go because this was once an important element of your relationship, and is still very important to your wife. You would cheerfully drive to the shop, sit closely, and chat about whatever, same as before.

And you James would enjoy this trip nearly as much as you once did WITHOUT eating any ice cream.

 

You see, it's all about attitude. My wife has low sexual desire, but a great attitude.

It is not “duty sex” between us, and I am certain she too gets a lot out of our sex life.

[Eve]

It could be, and no, we haven't. But the problem is...I miss sex. She doesn't. Why does she need to see a sex therapist? In her opinion, I am guessing that she would think it would be better that I see a priest and learn to be celibate! Seriously though, she knows that there is a problem because it is a problem for me. She hates it if I mention it or make a "dig" as she calls it. So this subject rarely gets mentioned in any way, shape or form anymore. Since it seems that she thinks it is MY problem, then I guess I am at the stage where i will find a solution for ME and no longer look for a solution for US.

 

 

So, in all the time you have posted on LS nobody has ever suggested you go to a sex therapist?

 

James, sit your Wife down and tell her that you want to try sex therapy because ...[insert feelings]. Then STFU and go. You and your Wife need to talk about this together with appropriate support.

 

That's my take on things. Anything else is wasting time. I hear the sessions are excellent. I would put good money on you both being on track within a matter of weeks.

 

Be a bit bossy about this too. If she does not want sex again you need to really hear this from her.

 

Even go to sex therapy sessions on your own.. that will shake things up.

 

Poor man...wt..

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Mr. Lucky]

I disagree.

 

There aren't really "many" reasons why women in their mid 40's suddenly start losing their sex drives for their husbands, and become emotionally distant.

 

There's one or two.

 

The biggest reasons are infidelity or a hormonal issue. Hormonal issues can and should be addressed, and women who have them but love their husbands are willing to address them without disdain for their husbands.

 

Only women who have had affairs would contemplate almost totally withdrawing sex from their husbands, treating them with such disdain, and refusing to do anything about it to improve things.

 

There is no other explanation, really.

 

If there are, you would have mentioned a few of these "many" explanations you say there are.

I think you're way guilty of applying over-simplified - and male biased - answers to a complex question if you think the only reasons are hormonal and unfaithful. There are a number of emotional, physical, maternal, historical and psychological factors involved. If the answers were so easily found and applied, why all the similar LS posts? Why posters like James and Giotto with such long-term histories?

 

I guess they should just man up and tell their cheating wives to start popping those hormone pills, problem solved...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Radagast]

James, while I'm really pleased to see you back I'm saddened that your situation is no better. Our paths have been very different and I have little useful advice for you. But one thing I would like to point out is that there are three ways of viewing this issue:

 

Some people have framed it as her issue. She has a very low libido (for the reasons cited, or perhaps others) and she needs "fixing" to overcome that so that she can have a normal healthy marriage, i.e. one involving a lot more sex than currently.

 

Others, and possibly she herself, and even you yourself, see it as your issue. You are the one who is not happy with the way things are currently on the sexual front. She is (from what I've read) happy with the way things are. Since you're the unhappy one, this reasoning goes, you are the one who needs "fixing", either through the provision of an alternative outlet or through rightsizing your expectations and learning to live without frustration in an almost-sexless marriage.

 

But for many of us it is undeniably a relationship issue. If at least one partner in a relationship is not having their needs met adequately in or by the relationship, that relationship itself is vulnerable. A little like "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". Which is why I would add my voice to the chorus urging marriage counselling (if not outright sex therapy). Your wife may not see the problem in the relationship because she feels fulfilled enough. You yourself may not see the risk to your relationship because having weighed up your options yet again you choose to sublimate your own needs and prioritise the family. I understand that and can relate to it - I myself did that for decades. But I don't think it is ultimately sustainable, not if the marriage is to be something you take pride and pleasure in and see as affirming and nurturing of both of you. Because little by little that sense of affirmation will erode, a resignation will set in that may even build into resentment over time, and an emotional distance between you will grow. Not because you don't love each other. Because you do - and yet a part of you is deemed too unlovable to be celebrated in your marriage, and a core need of yours is deemed consistently less important than a need (which may also be a core need) of hers. Deep in your heart you will know that the marriage you have is less than the marriage you would like to have, and little by little that will take its toll.

 

I was desperate to get my ex-wife to marriage counselling. I knew things were not sustainable as they were, however hard I tried and however much energy and emotion and will I threw into the marriage. But she thought things were fine as they were, that any problems were my problems, not the marriage's problems, and refused to consider it. And ultimately things were not sustainable. I had an affair. I saw how different things could be and I left the marriage, after thirty years of busting my gut trying to make things work, trying to keep it all together for the kids. James, you don't want to be that guy. Let her see how this could all end up. Let her understand how serious the risks are. Convince her to go to marriage counselling with you, where you can both speak things through in a safe contained space with a professional who won't be trading off your needs against her needs, but helping you find some way to allow your needs and her needs to be met so that your marriage can thrive, rather than just enduring.

 

I wish you well, I'm rooting for you. I couldn't get it right but I'm really hoping you can.

[belkin2]

James, while I'm really pleased to see you back I'm saddened that your situation is no better. Our paths have been very different and I have little useful advice for you. But one thing I would like to point out is that there are three ways of viewing this issue:

 

Some people have framed it as her issue. She has a very low libido (for the reasons cited, or perhaps others) and she needs "fixing" to overcome that so that she can have a normal healthy marriage, i.e. one involving a lot more sex than currently.

 

Others, and possibly she herself, and even you yourself, see it as your issue. You are the one who is not happy with the way things are currently on the sexual front. She is (from what I've read) happy with the way things are. Since you're the unhappy one, this reasoning goes, you are the one who needs "fixing", either through the provision of an alternative outlet or through rightsizing your expectations and learning to live without frustration in an almost-sexless marriage.

 

But for many of us it is undeniably a relationship issue. If at least one partner in a relationship is not having their needs met adequately in or by the relationship, that relationship itself is vulnerable. A little like "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". Which is why I would add my voice to the chorus urging marriage counselling (if not outright sex therapy). Your wife may not see the problem in the relationship because she feels fulfilled enough. You yourself may not see the risk to your relationship because having weighed up your options yet again you choose to sublimate your own needs and prioritise the family. I understand that and can relate to it - I myself did that for decades. But I don't think it is ultimately sustainable, not if the marriage is to be something you take pride and pleasure in and see as affirming and nurturing of both of you. Because little by little that sense of affirmation will erode, a resignation will set in that may even build into resentment over time, and an emotional distance between you will grow. Not because you don't love each other. Because you do - and yet a part of you is deemed too unlovable to be celebrated in your marriage, and a core need of yours is deemed consistently less important than a need (which may also be a core need) of hers. Deep in your heart you will know that the marriage you have is less than the marriage you would like to have, and little by little that will take its toll.

 

I was desperate to get my ex-wife to marriage counselling. I knew things were not sustainable as they were, however hard I tried and however much energy and emotion and will I threw into the marriage. But she thought things were fine as they were, that any problems were my problems, not the marriage's problems, and refused to consider it. And ultimately things were not sustainable. I had an affair. I saw how different things could be and I left the marriage, after thirty years of busting my gut trying to make things work, trying to keep it all together for the kids. James, you don't want to be that guy. Let her see how this could all end up. Let her understand how serious the risks are. Convince her to go to marriage counselling with you, where you can both speak things through in a safe contained space with a professional who won't be trading off your needs against her needs, but helping you find some way to allow your needs and her needs to be met so that your marriage can thrive, rather than just enduring.

 

I wish you well, I'm rooting for you. I couldn't get it right but I'm really hoping you can.

 

Really great post!

[Mr. Lucky]

Convince her to go to marriage counselling with you, where you can both speak things through in a safe contained space with a professional who won't be trading off your needs against her needs, but helping you find some way to allow your needs and her needs to be met so that your marriage can thrive, rather than just enduring.

I agree with Belkin2, really great post (and really well written also - Radagast, do you write for a living ?)

 

James wife's position on sex within their marriage obviously has "value" to her as, assuming that James has made his feelings clear, she has defended it at some cost. Assuming that a successful MC process could convince her otherwise, I can't help but wonder what she'd ask of him in return? If she was going to be honest, what would be important to her?

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

If the answers were so easily found and applied, why all the similar LS posts? Why posters like James and Giotto with such long-term histories?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Looks like I'll have to post tomorrow... My story not going that well either, although I think I found some kind of peace of mind...

[giotto]

And here I am... Well, James, I'm very saddened to hear that there hasn't been any real improvement in your situation, but I'm not surprised.

 

What really strikes me in your story is your wife's unwillingness to work together and find a solution to the problem. I think you really resent this, and it's natural. It might be that she really thinks it's your problem, and it is in a way.

 

For me, things have come to a head last month, when we were on holiday. You can red the story here...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/339717-wife-ocd-now-refusing-therapy

 

My wife has OCD, treated successfully with ADs, and has zero libido. On holiday, she told me that she would never seek therapy to fix her issues (she promised to do this some months ago), so we could have our normal relationship back, and that things will never change. It was a shock for me, because I was really hoping that she would put some effort in the marriage, to get it back on track. That our marriage was worth saving. I was wrong!

 

What am I getting at? Like you, it really hurts to see that our wives are not prepared to do anything about the marriage and their husbands. She said, basically: take it or leave it. It's very painful to see that you are not worth investing in. Your husband of 23 years. Things have dragged on for too long, mainly due to lack of communication from her behalf. This in turn has lead me to make some mistakes, like pressuring her for sex in the past. That didn't help. It's taken her a long time to get over it.

 

Now, like you, I have children and I'm not prepared to leave yet. I have another 10 years too. I'm 49. So, I had to think very hard. After some weeks, I've come to the conclusion that I've had enough of turmoil and gut-wrenching self-inflicted commiseration and self pity. So, I've accepted the situation. Mind you, we have sex more often than you (once or twice a month), so it's not that unbearable, but the intimacy's gone. I can't let my guard down, because I don't want to be hurt anymore. I suppose my wife is doing a little bit to keep me happy, but I must say that it's maybe even worse. I'll give you a little bit so you don't get too depressed.

 

From the thread, you'll see that I had decided to sleep in my office and withdraw all my emotional support. I've changed my mind. I'm back in our marital bed (and abelincoln will be happy about that ). Tara Maiden will kill me when she reads this. But hey, I'm tired of conflicts and stressful situations. All I want to do is concentrating on my job, the children and the family life. I will re-examine the situation in a few years time. So, as I said in my other post, I've found a bit of peace of mind. It's the only way to survive for me.

 

Of course I miss the intimacy, the feeling of being loved and wanted, I miss my wife. But I can't change her and she won't change herself, so, for the moment, I have no other option, because I don't want a divorce. It's pretty depressing, but I don't think about it that often anymore. Maybe you should do the same, James?

[angie2443]

I read up on your wife's condition and it sounds like a nightmare. Is it possible that your wife is in or feels that she's in a no win situation? Your wife sounds like a decent person, and so do you. If you did get a divorce, you should be able to work it out in a friendly mannor and I get the sense that you all would adjust fine. You could then get the type of intimancy you need, and maybe your wife could find someone to be with who is having to deal with the same issues.

 

Fibromyalgia and Sexuality

 

This is one article I read. After reading it, I can see what a headache it would be for both the person with the condition, and their partner.

[angie2443]

While I don't agree with most of Abelincoln's thinking, I must admit that when I read the part where your wife said that she would marry you again, the thought that crossed my mind is that she is cheating or resents you or something to that affect. I don't get the impression, from what you say about her, that she is cheating. Is it possible that she resents you for something. Resentment can be easy to hide, even from oneself. Resentment can kill love. It's just a thought.

[giotto]

well, I agree with you, mostly. You are wrong in one aspect. She is not a cheater and she wouldn't do that to me. I know for sure she is not cheating. She has no sexual desire and she is selfish. She is doing it to protect herself. It's a defensive mechanism. I think when she said she would go to therapy she meant it. She just doesn't have the strength in herself to do it. It's quite sad, but she is not manipulative. She says she loves me, but what she is giving me is all she can give.

 

Look at this part of what you posted.

 

What did your wife do, which is most significant here?

 

She lied to you.

 

She told you she would get therapy--she PROMISED to do it--and reneged on that promise (and it sounds like this has been recurring pretty much for a long time). She broke her promise about something very important to you, and which should have been very important to her, but wasn't.

 

Did her lie, and stringing you along about it, have anything to do with divulging past sexual history? No. Did it have anything to do with actually having sex with you?

 

No.

 

It shows that your wife is a liar, and a remorseless one at that. She didn't say something like "I know I promised, but I just can't bear to go to therapy, I'm scared to deal with my issues, etc." She said "Take it or leave it." She's not just practically asexual with you, she's totally cold, and dishonest, and unapologetic.

 

All those factors are remarkably similar to the personality profile of the typical cheating spouse.

 

What she IS doing, is giving you the bare minimum of sex she thinks she can get away with to keep you from actually DOING something to change the status quo. She's also blame shifted and made you feel guilty for pressuring her for sex--it sounds like you feel at fault for doing that. You weren't.

 

Your wife sounds like a totally calculating cheater who is simply not ready to divorce you yet, for her own reasons.

 

And by the way, before you start going in more rationalizations about how it's her depression, how it's her AD's--as far as I know, ADs don't make a person lie and break promises.

 

That's a fundamental aspect of your wife's character.

 

Cheaters lie.

 

And liars cheat.

[JamesM]

James, while I'm really pleased to see you back I'm saddened that your situation is no better. Our paths have been very different and I have little useful advice for you. But one thing I would like to point out is that there are three ways of viewing this issue:

 

Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts in a well-written manner.

 

Some people have framed it as her issue.

 

I probably view it this way too often when in reality, it is more than that.

 

Others, and possibly she herself, and even you yourself, see it as your issue.

 

She does outwardly with words, but I know her...she feels it is her issue more than my issue. She has told me more than once, "It is not you. It is me."

 

But for many of us it is undeniably a relationship issue.

 

I agree.

 

Deep in your heart you will know that the marriage you have is less than the marriage you would like to have, and little by little that will take its toll.

 

It does, but as giotto says in his post, I too forget about it most of the time. While it affects our marriage to a degree, most of the time we have great connection in everything but sex.

 

Convince her to go to marriage counselling with you, where you can both speak things through in a safe contained space with a professional who won't be trading off your needs against her needs, but helping you find some way to allow your needs and her needs to be met so that your marriage can thrive, rather than just enduring.

 

Oddly, while in the past I have been to a counselor and she has, too, both of us for personal issues (her abuse, me mainly stress), I don't think either of us see that as the best option yet. Why? Not sure. But I need to be convinced myself that it is going to be of help before I spill my guts, and I know that she is not ready to tell her story over again.

 

I wish you well, I'm rooting for you. I couldn't get it right but I'm really hoping you can.

 

While I post here pessimistically sometimes, this is a way for me to vent. And then looking at it, I can see the positives and view life better again. I have hope that it will get better. And I have less resentment because (and this may be hard for some to imagine) I look at sex as something that is not coming from her. Since I don't want sex with her simply to fulfill my needs, then I am looking at it differently.

 

Thank you. Your input is appreciated.

[JamesM]

JamesM,

 

At any rate, it has taken us both to reach a point of unhappiness that led us to counseling back in Feb.

 

In my case we both reached that point together where we knew **** had to change and we were both willing to seek help. I am wondering how much you have portrayed this unhappiness you have to your wife?

 

Sounds like you have approached her numerous times on this subject over the years, but have you guys ever had any counseling together?

 

There is likely something there within your wife as an underlying reason she is this way. She may not even really know it or understand it on a conscious level. It may or may not be linked to anything about you directly.

 

I feel for you and hope something can start making a change in a better direction for you!

 

Thanks for your input. One point to make for me is that we are not where we think counseling will work. I am doubtful and she would not want to dredge up her past again. SO, while it may get to that point, I am NOT thinking of leaving her, nor despite my question about affairs, am I seeking out an affair. I probably asked the question more so that I can avoid them.

 

I have approached her many times, and I know that she views it as sex and yet I know her comment that "everything is turned off" was not to say she didn't want it to be turned on, but simply that physically she doesn't feel the interest.

 

Is there an underlying reason? Yes. Do I think it is emotional or relationship based? Most of me says no. I think it is more physical as to why she has no interest. But what I think is that she can override that and still enjoy it. Then I wonder if it will be mutual enjoyment or simply for me.

 

Your post was a good one.

 

James...

 

you may not relish the possibility, but the timing of your wife's decline in sexual and emotional desire for you being in her 40's, strongly suggests she had a mid-life crisis affair or fling of some kind during that period. It may have been physical, it may have been only emotional, it may have been both--but something happened in her 40's to cause this. Cause and effect--there is no effect without a cause.

I think you have been unwilling to really confront your wife and take a meaningful stand on any of this because it's easier to complain about the lack of sex and intimacy than to actually address these possibilities.

 

So you are "stuck" in one place and you are likely going to stay there until you decide you want the truth from her.

 

SHE knows why.

 

She's just not telling.

 

 

I cannot say 100% that there has been no affair, but I do know that my wife has a tough time keeping a secret. Oh, I am sure she can. But it is hard for her, and something of this magnitude would be hard for her too keep. There is always a possibility, and I have considered this thought many times over the past six years.

 

In fact, there was a time in January 2006 (and I posted a thread about it) that she stopped me and said that she had something to say to me. The look on her face was enough to stop me in my tracks, and the thought hit me...she had an affair. (This was during the time we had little sex. 2005 was a bad year for us.) And then she looked at me with a fear and told me that she had spent over $1000 on the credit card without telling me. My face must have mirrored hers and her next comment made me really stop. As she looked at me, she said, "You thought I was going to say that I had an affair." Now, we do have this uncanny thing between us that she will say something I am thinking, but the fact that she was thinking along those lines really stuck with me. And i still wonder why she was scared to tell me about spending money. It has never been a big issue with me. And my comment to her at that time was one of "So? We will pay it off?"

 

I do think if it was an affair and she backpedaled, then it was an emotional one and possibly with a coworker. Since our kids were running around us, I never asked about it any more and I never brought it up again.

 

So, while I doubt strongly that there was ever any physical affair, because I know that she would consider this more hurtful than an emotional affair, I have wondered whether she had a close friendship with some guy that bothered her.

 

I disagree.

 

There aren't really "many" reasons why women in their mid 40's suddenly start losing their sex drives for their husbands, and become emotionally distant.

 

There's one or two.

 

The biggest reasons are infidelity or a hormonal issue.

 

There is no other explanation, really.

 

If there are, you would have mentioned a few of these "many" explanations you say there are.

 

I will mention a couple that apply to my wife.

 

One, she does have fibromyalgia. This is a condition that causes a person to have pain throughout his or her body. It affects sleep patterns, so that sleeping is different. It affects her stomach so that she can have periods of nausea. It can affect her mood. While I do NOT think that she has a severe case (which she may differ with me on) because she is not bed bound and can work a full-time job, I accept that it can cause her to not want an intimate connection as frequently as someone who does not have to deal with this condition.

 

Two, there are many medications that can cause the libido to disappear. I know that she is on at least one or two that can cause a low libido. Since she takes five or six different meds a day, I accept that this may cause her to "shut down" physically.

 

And there are more. The link below is to a book that I read which lists (I think) fourteen different reasons.

Amazon.com: I'm Not in the Mood: What Every Woman Should Know About Improving Her Libido (9780688172251): Judith Reichman: Books

 

The problem is....which one is it?

 

I think you're way guilty of applying over-simplified - and male biased - answers to a complex question if you think the only reasons are hormonal and unfaithful. There are a number of emotional, physical, maternal, historical and psychological factors involved. If the answers were so easily found and applied, why all the similar LS posts? Why posters like James and Giotto with such long-term histories?

 

I guess they should just man up and tell their cheating wives to start popping those hormone pills, problem solved...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

My thoughts, too.

[Got it]

James, you guys can get counseling and see if it helps. Though there are no guarantees that can be offered so unless you are a fortune teller it will be hard to look into the future and see.

 

Or accept that without the ability to compromise you guys are at a square peg, round hole issue. It is what it is and either accept or move on.

 

I saw the issue in my marriage as this was one of my love languages and if you loved me, want to make me happy, you would want to connect with me at this level. I accepted that while my ex did love me, not enough to want to compromise on this. It was what it was and once I accepted it I found a level of contentment until that ran its course.

 

I left the marriage before I/we became bitter or terribly resentful. He isn't wrong for not wanting sex more, that is who he is. It just didn't work for me. So I wanted to find someone that fit my needs better and I wanted my ex to find someone that fit him better.

[JamesM]

And here I am... Well, James, I'm very saddened to hear that there hasn't been any real improvement in your situation, but I'm not surprised.

 

What really strikes me in your story is your wife's unwillingness to work together and find a solution to the problem. I think you really resent this, and it's natural. It might be that she really thinks it's your problem, and it is in a way.

Of course I miss the intimacy, the feeling of being loved and wanted, I miss my wife. But I can't change her and she won't change herself, so, for the moment, I have no other option, because I don't want a divorce. It's pretty depressing, but I don't think about it that often anymore. Maybe you should do the same, James?

 

Giotto, it is good to connect with you, too. You were one of the first I looked up when I cam back. I am also sorry that your situation is not any better.

 

Her unwillingness is the hardest part to take. If it is a physical problem, and she wants it to be solved, then why doesn't she work with trying to solve it? THAT is where my resentment comes in more than simply not getting sex. But then I think of Tommyr's analogy a few posts back about liking ice cream, and he has a point. Why should she want sex if she has no hunger for it? Convincing her that she needs to enjoy it because I enjoy it is not an easy task without laying down an ultimatum.

 

And the truth is...I don't think about it as much as I did. In fact, that was part of the reason I haven't been on in so longer. I came back more to see how everyone is doing and felt "obligated" to update my own life. So this began.

[JamesM]

I read up on your wife's condition and it sounds like a nightmare. Is it possible that your wife is in or feels that she's in a no win situation? Your wife sounds like a decent person, and so do you. If you did get a divorce, you should be able to work it out in a friendly mannor and I get the sense that you all would adjust fine. You could then get the type of intimancy you need, and maybe your wife could find someone to be with who is having to deal with the same issues.

 

Fibromyalgia and Sexuality

 

This is one article I read. After reading it, I can see what a headache it would be for both the person with the condition, and their partner.

 

It is a headache and perhaps her low libido is simply from fibromyalgia. Perhaps she feels that since I want her to enjoy it and she can't, then why bother? And perhaps since she is never hungry for it, then she forgets about it. Perhaps her pain (just like a headache for me) causes her to have zero interest in it. Yet if I read about others with fibro (and I have done alot of that over the years), then I see many of them having sex regularly.

 

While I don't agree with most of Abelincoln's thinking, I must admit that when I read the part where your wife said that she would marry you again, the thought that crossed my mind is that she is cheating or resents you or something to that affect. I don't get the impression, from what you say about her, that she is cheating. Is it possible that she resents you for something. Resentment can be easy to hide, even from oneself. Resentment can kill love. It's just a thought.

 

It is possible. The question is what would she resent me about that would cause her to say that? I think she said it because she was looking around the room earlier in the evening at the other brother-in-laws and felt that she had the best one (at least for her). Maybe I am wrong.

 

Anyhow...thank you everyone for giving input! I know I missed a couple of posts along the way. Maybe when I get more time, I will reread them (as i often do) and see a couple or more things to respond to.

[hardlybreathing]

I feel very intimidated to post here, but I want to share a personal story.

 

My first marriage was very much sexless, I was married for 18 yrs. and did not have sex for 7 years. (thus is why I posted in another forum, it ended because of neglet). I remember in divorce court, the judge saying "I see couples every day in divorce court and I think to myself I would be getting a divorce too if I had to put up with that. But, you two seem like a nice couple, what is really going on?" My answer, "we're friends but not lovers" my ex-husband spoke up and said "she said she didn't like sex" the judge said "sir, did you not see that this was a huge problem".

 

It is a problem. And, I can tell you why I didn't like sex with my ex-husband and I will be very blunt. I didn't enjoy it! I didn't desire him, I didn't want to be bothered. A lot of it was because there was no intimacy, I don't mean sex, I mean intimacy, kissing, carressing, talking, sharing, etc. And frankly it was so awkward for him, when he tried, I thought it meant we were going to have to have sex, so leave me the hell alone! Looking back at my first marriage - I wish like hell I had gone to counseling to keep the marriage together, it has been hell for my kids.

 

Can you take your wife away and show her the most incredible, romantic weekend? Would that possible help? It's not too late for you. I wish you the best of luck with this.

[giotto]

Giotto, it is good to connect with you, too. You were one of the first I looked up when I cam back. I am also sorry that your situation is not any better.

 

Her unwillingness is the hardest part to take. If it is a physical problem, and she wants it to be solved, then why doesn't she work with trying to solve it? THAT is where my resentment comes in more than simply not getting sex. But then I think of Tommyr's analogy a few posts back about liking ice cream, and he has a point. Why should she want sex if she has no hunger for it? Convincing her that she needs to enjoy it because I enjoy it is not an easy task without laying down an ultimatum.

 

And the truth is...I don't think about it as much as I did. In fact, that was part of the reason I haven't been on in so longer. I came back more to see how everyone is doing and felt "obligated" to update my own life. So this began.

 

yes, I had a hard time trying to putting myself in her shoes. She doesn't want it that often and it must be difficult to think about it if you don't feel anything. She said she has to decide when to have sex and then she is prepared mentally. My gripe with this is: why doesn't she decide more often? Especially if she knows that it would make me a lot happier. She enjoys it when we have it, so... working shifts doesn't help, obviously. Yes, it's frustrating to know that you are not one of their priorities anymore. Because it also boils down to this, I'm afraid...

 

It's not a priority for me anymore either. In fact, I was contemplating a sexless marriage. I mean, completely sexless. But I changed my mind, because I can't live like that.

[JamesM]

I feel very intimidated to post here, but I want to share a personal story.

 

My first marriage was very much sexless, I was married for 18 yrs. and did not have sex for 7 years. (thus is why I posted in another forum, it ended because of neglet). I remember in divorce court, the judge saying "I see couples every day in divorce court and I think to myself I would be getting a divorce too if I had to put up with that. But, you two seem like a nice couple, what is really going on?" My answer, "we're friends but not lovers" my ex-husband spoke up and said "she said she didn't like sex" the judge said "sir, did you not see that this was a huge problem".

 

It is a problem. And, I can tell you why I didn't like sex with my ex-husband and I will be very blunt. I didn't enjoy it! I didn't desire him, I didn't want to be bothered. A lot of it was because there was no intimacy, I don't mean sex, I mean intimacy, kissing, carressing, talking, sharing, etc. And frankly it was so awkward for him, when he tried, I thought it meant we were going to have to have sex, so leave me the hell alone! Looking back at my first marriage - I wish like hell I had gone to counseling to keep the marriage together, it has been hell for my kids.

 

Can you take your wife away and show her the most incredible, romantic weekend? Would that possible help? It's not too late for you. I wish you the best of luck with this.

 

Thanks. Don't feel intimidated. You have many life experiences that can be helpful to the rest of us.

 

Oddly, I am the one who wants more kissing and hugging and cuddling. She doesn't even enjoy that part...and that is what bothers me. If we do have it, then she wants it to move along. I want to spend time touching and kissing and hugging...especially kissing.

 

Romantic weekends are out of the question right now, but I can say that in the past, when we did it, it didn't make a difference. She gets more relaxed and somewhat more cuddly, but to say that it ends in sex...no. Even having a date night can be difficult, so we have date lunches. We both enjoy those, but (as it would be with a date night), there is no expectation of it ending in sex on my part, and I try hard not to show that I expect it. IF it ever does, then I let her initiate it.

 

Perhaps we will someday get to counseling. And I don't want divorce either because it will hurt the kids tremendously, and it will hurt me more than help me at this point. And she will be devastated even if she hides it on the inside.

 

Thank you for your support.

[Scrivdog]

After reading this thread, I get the sense that you live like this because you're getting something out of it. Maybe you like thinking of yourself as a devoted martyr more than you actually want to have a fulfilling sex life.

 

There's no other explanation. Your wife told you ouright she will never have sex with you and she suggested you go have an affair. An yet her you are, years later, still going on about how much you love your wife and how you hope one day - she'll wake up and you'll both be happy again.

 

Of course anybody can see this is never going to happen. But in the meantime, you don't need to engage in life - because hey, you're still devoted to your wife. You also get to come here every so often and get loads of sympathy posts.

 

Maybe you're just happier this way.

[hardlybreathing]

After reading this thread, I get the sense that you live like this because you're getting something out of it. Maybe you like thinking of yourself as a devoted martyr more than you actually want to have a fulfilling sex life.

 

There's no other explanation. Your wife told you ouright she will never have sex with you and she suggested you go have an affair. An yet her you are, years later, still going on about how much you love your wife and how you hope one day - she'll wake up and you'll both be happy again.

 

Of course anybody can see this is never going to happen. But in the meantime, you don't need to engage in life - because hey, you're still devoted to your wife. You also get to come here every so often and get loads of sympathy posts.

 

Maybe you're just happier this way

.

 

I so disagree with this.

 

The only thing that I can add to my previous post is whatever you do, don't have an affair! It is devastating to everyone! I have to also say, the reason my sexual life with my 1st h was so bad, I think, because I resented him! He left me a lone all the time pursuing his hobbies and I had a better life before him. But I married him and felt stuck. I talked and talked to him until I was blue in the face and he would tell me not to let the door hit me on the way out. I couldn't even think about intimacy with him. Is your wife resentful about something - can you break down the barrier?

 

Your wife said she would never have sex with you again? Well let me tell you, she will! Especially if she thinks she will loose you. Talk and talk some more. Can you give her a snapshot of what would happen if this doesn't turn around? You are on very dangerous grounds right now and you must get this turned around or else I am very afraid that your marriage is doomed. You cannot have a sexless marriage - that's not a marriage!

[hardlybreathing]

Wow~so for that period when you weren't having any sex with him, he would either reject you when you tried to be tender with him w/kissing, caressing, talking, sharing, or he would always misinterpet that as foreplay?

 

Not to highjack the thread. I rejected him - but he didn't try to do any kissing, etc. Our marriage was sexless, unloving, but very, very friendly. Basically, I was his mother.

[JamesM]

.

 

The only thing that I can add to my previous post is whatever you do, don't have an affair! It is devastating to everyone!

 

Is your wife resentful about something - can you break down the barrier?

 

Your wife said she would never have sex with you again? Well let me tell you, she will! Especially if she thinks she will loose you. Talk and talk some more. Can you give her a snapshot of what would happen if this doesn't turn around? You are on very dangerous grounds right now and you must get this turned around or else I am very afraid that your marriage is doomed. You cannot have a sexless marriage - that's not a marriage!

 

I am not planning on having an affair and actually would try to prevent one...if I can keep the strength up.

 

I am not sure what she is resentful about, but I would love to know. She denies and even to herself, so her response would be no, I am guessing.

 

I did give her a snapshot once back in 2006, and you are right...she suddenly loved sex. But this wore off in time.

 

Not to highjack the thread. I rejected him - but he didn't try to do any kissing, etc. Our marriage was sexless, unloving, but very, very friendly. Basically, I was his mother.

 

No t/j taken. It adds to the thread. In our case, I can't say she is my mother.

[JamesM]

After reading this thread, I get the sense that you live like this because you're getting something out of it. Maybe you like thinking of yourself as a devoted martyr more than you actually want to have a fulfilling sex life.

 

No, I started it to give an update about me as I have been off for quite awhile.

 

There's no other explanation. Your wife told you ouright she will never have sex with you and she suggested you go have an affair. An yet her you are, years later, still going on about how much you love your wife and how you hope one day - she'll wake up and you'll both be happy again.

 

NO, she said if it was that important to me, then I may have to get it elsewhere. She did not suggest "You should have an affair."

 

I do love my wife and I do hope for a better future. Hope is what keeps us all going. Venting helps me.

 

Despite your sarcasm, you are correct. I do have hope. But staying in the marriage is more for "the family" and the kids. I am actually quite happy overall in my marriage. Sex isn't everything even if my post is only about the lack of sex in my marriage.

 

Of course anybody can see this is never going to happen. But in the meantime, you don't need to engage in life - because hey, you're still devoted to your wife. You also get to come here every so often and get loads of sympathy posts.

 

Actually, nobody can see the future. Ten years or so ago, I would have predicted things wouldn't have gone as they did either. And that is a good thing. So, in ten years when the kids leave home, we will see where we are at...if we make it that long.

 

I do enjoy the support and feedback. Honestly. But I also get feedback that makes me step back and think before I do something stupid or rash. This is one of my reasons for this thread, too.

 

Maybe you're just happier this way.

 

....or maybe I accept things this way because I am happy that my kids are happier.