Dating, Rejection, Unrequited Love & Hurt

[MARK1957]

This thread is about the topic I've headlined as it relates to my experiences. I haven't been on LS in slightly over 3 years and just wanted to get this stuff off my mind.

 

This is going to sound really sad and it is. I posted a thread 3 years ago about feeling rejected by a woman I believed I had fallen in love with. (posted Aug. 8, 2009 in "In search of" under this user name.)

 

In hindsight, and I believe I've known this for a long time - even when I made that thread - I shouldn't have felt rejected. (even though I did). (I do feel indifferent about her now. I don't think about her at all. For part of the purposes of this thread, she came to mind.) All she did was change her mind about going out with me.(knew her for about 6 months) She never said I like you or give any overt indication of an attraction nor did we ever really get close . No big deal, in hindsight. I was very attracted to her and I believe she liked me, but, I almost didn't ask her out - for fear of rejection from my past. Had I not asked her out, I wouldn't have put myself through what I perceived was the insane, asinine emotional agony for the next 20 1/2 YEARS. (Really, really stupid.) You read that right. I simply gave up on facing rejection and destined myself to be alone and feel severely lonely for the rest of my life. Tragically, I'm one of those men that made that choice. I thought I'd rather feel THAT lonely than to feel really hurt by rejection. At the time I was between 31 and 32. I am now 55 and I still feel very lonely. It hurts to feel lonely. Please - no comments about the need to grow up or move on. I'm a capable man who's just reacted differently to the rejection I have received than maybe more men than not. Why? I don't know.

 

One of the women responding to that initial thread on LS invited me to talk with her more via her private email, which she gave me in one of her responses. We began corresponding immediately and did so for 5 months, each sending the other about 350 emails(700 total) . I know LS is NOT a dating site, yet I began having feelings for this lady quickly and told her so. I immediately apologized profusely in my next email because I realized I shouldn't be expressing feelings so quickly to a woman I "met" like this. To my amazing surprise, she emailed me back and told me I "didn't have to temper my feelings" and that I could say to her the feelings I had for her whenever I wanted to, as long as it was genuine. I was unbelievably happy for the first time in my adult life. We continued to correspond and she started telling me she felt the same way. She lives about 2700 miles away, yet I asked her out to an opera concert in her city, which she mentioned she enjoys. She accepted. Long story short (leaving out a LOT of details) - I made all the arrangements to see her in person. We met face to face. Had a lunch date day before the concert and saw each other at our concert date. Reality set in. My feelings for her were confirmed the moment we met in person. In person, her feelings for me, expressed in various emails over 5 months, turned out not to be confirmed for her. (There were no surprises. We were each the people the other thought we were meeting, before we actually met in person.) This time, I truly felt over the top hurt because of the expression of her "mutual" feelings for me over five months before meeting in person. I truly believed she was falling for me as I had fallen for her. Foolish me. I should know better.

 

I returned home to southern california feeling crushed. My health started to deteriorate (not in a fatal sense) in a somewhat physical sense and VERY emotional sense. I couldn't stop thinking about her. I tried to put things into perspective from my experience 20 1/2 years earlier, but it didn't help much. I needed time. Now, 3 years later, I don't think "as much" about her anymore - yet I still do think about her - certainly without as much agony of hurt, specifically regarding her. Yet, I still feel the hurt in a general sense. Sorry for the long post, but I was thinking about this topic again and wanted to post a thread, even if no one read it.

 

Some things were different more than 23 years ago, yet some things remain the same for me. The woman from 23 years ago didn't express any romantic feelings for me. The woman from 3 years ago did express feelings for me that very much involved love and caring and affection. (all words used by her several times in emails regarding me) Yet, in the end, it's still rejection. In the end, I still feel like I've given up. I haven't even tried to date in the last 3 years. Not once. No one on this forum has to tell me I'm really screwed up emotionally. I realize I am.

 

I can still have feelings though. I still have a pulse. But.... I met an absolutely beautiful, gorgeous, sweet lady close(49) to my age about 3 months ago and we've become friends. Unfortunately, she's married. I WILL NOT cross that line. She knows I like her (I "feel" like I more than like her, but I can't say that to a married woman) and care for her. Even at that, she thinks I'm a very sweet guy who "hasn't overstepped any bounds" or "done anything wrong" by expressing some feelings for her.(her words) She just has that gorgeous smile and pretty face and very sweet, genuine personality that melts my heart, but - she's married. I don't have the opportunity to see her very much. (she works at one of our company's clients) I will be content to be a caring friend and a gentleman to her. If things change regarding her marital status who knows? I seriously doubt it though. I don't count on anything regarding that and don't even think about it. I only mention her if only to assure myself I can still feel something about caring about a woman, even if nothing can come of it.

 

When it comes right down to it, I'm just a man who can't date for the sake of dating. I must be emotionally messed up that way, but it is what it is. I have no idea why. I can love very much and care very much and become very attached. But this is EXTREMELY RARE for me.(4 times in 38 YEARS) Maybe that's why the rejection I've felt in my life has hurt so much. I can easily meet attractive women and talk to them easily. But, I need to "feel" or at least "sense" that I can have romantic feelings for the particular woman when I meet her. I may think she's attractive and nice and she may be friendly and respond to me, but that doesn't mean I'll "feel" a romantic attraction to her. If not, I wouldn't even try to ask her out. Not that I think I'm anything special. But I can't date if I don't feel a very strong initial attraction. I would feel like I'm trying to ask out my sister. I love my sister, but I don't "love" my sister.

 

I guess I'm just that relatively rare person who needs to "feel" or sense that "in love at first sight" feeling, for lack of a better expression. Don't know how else to say it. Even the married woman I have feelings for results in a sense of hurt. Yet this is different because she hasn't rejected me in a traditional sense at all. This is a self inflicted hurt. Maybe even hurt isn't the right word to use. Probably a sense of "disappointment" on my part, because there's nothing I can do. Yet, I can't stop thinking about her and she's so stuck in my heart.

 

I'll live this way because I have for so long. It's just sad. Rejection sucks. Unrequited feelings are very painful.

 

Just needed to get this topic off my mind, since I read many other threads from time to time dealing with somewhat similar matters. Thanks.

 

MARK1957

[The Way I Am]

You seem like a sensitive and romantic person. Nothing wrong with those things -- except that you don't seem happy.

 

I looked at your previous thread. My impression is that you held onto the idea of Sharon in order to protect yourself from hurt again. A self-defense mechanism. If no woman caught your interest like Sharon, no woman could hurt you again like Sharon. So you never felt that way about any other woman you met since. But you let yourself fall for a woman online because that woman was far away, separated by the anonymity of the internet and thus relatively safe. After awhile, you felt comfortable enough with her to let down your defense and fall in love again. Unfortunately it ended badly again -- but then relationships do end badly more often than not. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you.

 

I'm not a professional therapist though. I saw that at one point you had been to a psychiatrist, which seems to have been of little help. Have you considered looking for a different therapist or psychiatrist that might be more helpful for you?

[MARK1957]

Thanks for your reply The Way I Am. It's ironic your user name is what it is. It sums me up perfectly.

 

You're right. I did hold onto the idea of Sharon to protect myself. It seems so odd now just to say her name because I haven't done that since that thread 3 years ago. I can honestly say that I haven't even thought about her in all this time. And yes, if no other woman had caught my interest, as you put it, no other woman could hurt me again.

 

For me though, it's more than just catching my interest. As I said in my most recent thread, I don't easily fall for even a woman who I feel is attractive/nice/personable. I don't know how to explain it. There just has to be "something" about her, the moment I meet her, that makes me feel romantically attracted to her - her smile, a sweet disposition, etc. Something. It's probably something on a subconscious level. I realize most people would tell me that that's impossible. I disagree, but I'm not going to argue that point with people. It's just how I feel. I realize it makes it almost impossible to be in a romantic relationship, unless a woman felt the same way about me at the same time. I'm sure it happens but it's probably extremely rare.

 

With the woman who responded to me through LS, it was even more rare. I believe I was actually falling for her through her empathy for me as she talked about some of her similar experiences through our private email correspondence. And, when she didn't discourage my feelings, but instead told me I could feel about her the way I was beginning to feel, as long as I was being genuine, I believed she was beginning to feel the same way about me. Through email, she verbalized those same feelings back to me - "caring for me", "feeling affection for me", and yes,"loving me" in a romantic sense. She made it clear that she more than just liked me as a new found friend online. I thought I finally "met" a woman who reciprocated my feelings for her. We met in person. I knew my feelings were confirmed. For her, they weren't. That simple. Maybe not simple. But it happened.

 

You're right. Unfortunately it ended badly again, and relationships do end badly more often than not. Just by reading MANY threads on this forum attests to that.

 

I read a comment not too long ago on LS where someone said (not to me) just don't care so damn much.(their words). Unfortunately, I just can't do that. It's not in my emotional makeup. Actually, I don't care - as in having romantic feelings for almost all of the women I've met. They're friends. But, when I've met a woman I have feelings for, I've known it immediately. As I said, the woman on LS was the rarest because I believe I had those feelings begin through email correspondence and confirmed through eventually meeting in person. I still think about her, but not as much anymore. I have enough to contemplate thinking about my married woman friend, but that's another story.

 

If someone truly doesn't care or begin to get attached and doesn't care if they get rejected or not(it's the "it's just a numbers game mentality"), how do they know when they've fallen for someone.? That doesn't make sense to me. If I could treat women that way - like they were just a number - I wouldn't be able to have a relationship anyway because I wouldn't be able to have feelings if I didn't care. I understand, from my head, that meeting as many women as possible through the dating process is more than likely to result in meeting a woman who can feel the same way about me, but, my heart doesn't let me do that. I don't know why. I just need to care and become attached and have feelings from the start. I suppose I could date for the sake of it, but it wouldn't mean anything to me - as I said in my thread, like dating my sister. Oh well.

 

As far as seeing another therapist - no. I really believe it's my nature to feel as I do. If a woman had reciprocated my feelings, I would have probably been married a long time ago. Maybe it was just never meant to be.

 

Didn't mean to make my reply so long. Maybe you're the only one who'll read it, so I better say everything that comes to my mind. LOL.

 

From your posted stats, I see your also from socal. Have a nice day.

[Reegs]

Hi Mark.

 

I read both this post and your previous one as well. I havent been on LS that long...but its been a great help to me..in both dating and helping me move on from an ex-girlfriend. I felt like I had to respond to your post...as I truly believe you are a great person.

 

I'll not try to put myself in either of your situations, as I don't nearly have as much life experience (I am 28) as you and cant fathom the amount of pain you have put up with in your life in regards to love.

 

What I will do, is give you my perspective, and hope something I say in this post changes your thoughts on women, life, love....anything!!

 

I think reading all of your posts, has made me see that you have a different perspective on dating, relationships, and love. One thing struck me in all of the posts I read, which came through in your writing, is your lack of confidence. You sound like a genuine person that anyone would love to have as a friend...someone who is loyal, extremely giving, caring....but not confident in what you are offering. Not confident that you will meet the right person for you. Not confident they will reciprocate the feelings that you have for them at the same time. Not confident in Mark. You need to hold your head bit higher...because I can tell in your posts....you deserve good things to happen to you!!! When YOU start believing that's the case...and stop looking backward at what could have been, you gonna realize the future is bright and beautiful.

 

One thing I realized maybe around the age of 21...was that I wasn't that great at dating. I got rejected a lot. I was a nice guy, that always seemed to get "friend-zoned" by the women I was interested in. What I was doing was not working...yet I always seemed to do the same thing with the same result. I would complain about it all the time...but when my other buddies that were ladies men...told me to do something different, I would refuse...and say "if the women doesn't like me for me...then I don't want them anyways" This went on for another 2 years. I continually got friend-zoned, because of my stubbornness and unwillingness to change. Finally....after years of trying to do things a certain way...I changed my approach. Not that I wasn't a nice guy anymore...but I stopped being a doormat. I was true to myself.....and I started to approach life differently. I am not telling you this story to pick up women...I am telling you it because you sound very stubborn. You have done things a certain way for 50+ years...and not to be mean..you dont sound happy with where you are at. Your unwillingness to change the way you think about life, and love has caused you to land where you are. I don't believe your personality is bad, I don't believe your a weirdo, and I don't believe your unattractive. I believe your a man who is stuck in his ways...and no one is changing his mind about relationships. I will promise you one thing...your situation will not change unless you change your approach. Maybe you'll get lucky...who knows...a broken clock is right twice a day....but I am pretty certain your going to end up where you are right now.

 

Therapy. Go. Please go. Your on LS writing your feelings down...letting us all know how you feel. Do you not want to change the way you feel? Are you ok with being depressed? You don't have to bare that burden Mark, you can be happy...you can find someone that can compliment you and you both will make each other that MUCH happier. I am young...and you might think I am a moron...but I do know one thing for certain. You're never gonna find anyone to love you, if you dont love yourself first. Go talk with someone. You wouldnt be on LS pouring your heart out if you didn't want help. Don't believe in that "meant to be crap"...Mark determines what is going to happen in Mark's life!! Its not too late....its not in anyones nature to feel depressed and unwanted. Humans want....and NEED to be wanted. We find purpose in it. Your not weak for going to see a therapist....you'll find out some amazing things about yourself.

 

Buy some books on relationships, attachment, dating....buy them all! Go read David D'Angelo, Double your Dating.(Its horrible...but maybe you will get one thing from it.) Read Read Read! The more you read...the more understanding you will get. Your not alone...and your not the only one who has ever/will ever feel this way.

 

All the best Mark...I really hope you find what it is your looking for. God Bless.

 

PS...stay away from the married woman. your better than that.

[todreaminblue]

This thread is about the topic I've headlined as it relates to my experiences. I haven't been on LS in slightly over 3 years and just wanted to get this stuff off my mind.

 

This is going to sound really sad and it is. I posted a thread 3 years ago about feeling rejected by a woman I believed I had fallen in love with. (posted Aug. 8, 2009 in "In search of" under this user name.)

 

In hindsight, and I believe I've known this for a long time - even when I made that thread - I shouldn't have felt rejected. (even though I did). (I do feel indifferent about her now. I don't think about her at all. For part of the purposes of this thread, she came to mind.) All she did was change her mind about going out with me.(knew her for about 6 months) She never said I like you or give any overt indication of an attraction nor did we ever really get close . No big deal, in hindsight. I was very attracted to her and I believe she liked me, but, I almost didn't ask her out - for fear of rejection from my past. Had I not asked her out, I wouldn't have put myself through what I perceived was the insane, asinine emotional agony for the next 20 1/2 YEARS. (Really, really stupid.) You read that right. I simply gave up on facing rejection and destined myself to be alone and feel severely lonely for the rest of my life. Tragically, I'm one of those men that made that choice. I thought I'd rather feel THAT lonely than to feel really hurt by rejection. At the time I was between 31 and 32. I am now 55 and I still feel very lonely. It hurts to feel lonely. Please - no comments about the need to grow up or move on. I'm a capable man who's just reacted differently to the rejection I have received than maybe more men than not. Why? I don't know.

 

One of the women responding to that initial thread on LS invited me to talk with her more via her private email, which she gave me in one of her responses. We began corresponding immediately and did so for 5 months, each sending the other about 350 emails(700 total) . I know LS is NOT a dating site, yet I began having feelings for this lady quickly and told her so. I immediately apologized profusely in my next email because I realized I shouldn't be expressing feelings so quickly to a woman I "met" like this. To my amazing surprise, she emailed me back and told me I "didn't have to temper my feelings" and that I could say to her the feelings I had for her whenever I wanted to, as long as it was genuine. I was unbelievably happy for the first time in my adult life. We continued to correspond and she started telling me she felt the same way. She lives about 2700 miles away, yet I asked her out to an opera concert in her city, which she mentioned she enjoys. She accepted. Long story short (leaving out a LOT of details) - I made all the arrangements to see her in person. We met face to face. Had a lunch date day before the concert and saw each other at our concert date. Reality set in. My feelings for her were confirmed the moment we met in person. In person, her feelings for me, expressed in various emails over 5 months, turned out not to be confirmed for her. (There were no surprises. We were each the people the other thought we were meeting, before we actually met in person.) This time, I truly felt over the top hurt because of the expression of her "mutual" feelings for me over five months before meeting in person. I truly believed she was falling for me as I had fallen for her. Foolish me. I should know better.

 

I returned home to southern california feeling crushed. My health started to deteriorate (not in a fatal sense) in a somewhat physical sense and VERY emotional sense. I couldn't stop thinking about her. I tried to put things into perspective from my experience 20 1/2 years earlier, but it didn't help much. I needed time. Now, 3 years later, I don't think "as much" about her anymore - yet I still do think about her - certainly without as much agony of hurt, specifically regarding her. Yet, I still feel the hurt in a general sense. Sorry for the long post, but I was thinking about this topic again and wanted to post a thread, even if no one read it.

 

Some things were different more than 23 years ago, yet some things remain the same for me. The woman from 23 years ago didn't express any romantic feelings for me. The woman from 3 years ago did express feelings for me that very much involved love and caring and affection. (all words used by her several times in emails regarding me) Yet, in the end, it's still rejection. In the end, I still feel like I've given up. I haven't even tried to date in the last 3 years. Not once. No one on this forum has to tell me I'm really screwed up emotionally. I realize I am.

 

I can still have feelings though. I still have a pulse. But.... I met an absolutely beautiful, gorgeous, sweet lady close(49) to my age about 3 months ago and we've become friends. Unfortunately, she's married. I WILL NOT cross that line. She knows I like her (I "feel" like I more than like her, but I can't say that to a married woman) and care for her. Even at that, she thinks I'm a very sweet guy who "hasn't overstepped any bounds" or "done anything wrong" by expressing some feelings for her.(her words) She just has that gorgeous smile and pretty face and very sweet, genuine personality that melts my heart, but - she's married. I don't have the opportunity to see her very much. (she works at one of our company's clients) I will be content to be a caring friend and a gentleman to her. If things change regarding her marital status who knows? I seriously doubt it though. I don't count on anything regarding that and don't even think about it. I only mention her if only to assure myself I can still feel something about caring about a woman, even if nothing can come of it.

 

When it comes right down to it, I'm just a man who can't date for the sake of dating. I must be emotionally messed up that way, but it is what it is. I have no idea why. I can love very much and care very much and become very attached. But this is EXTREMELY RARE for me.(4 times in 38 YEARS) Maybe that's why the rejection I've felt in my life has hurt so much. I can easily meet attractive women and talk to them easily. But, I need to "feel" or at least "sense" that I can have romantic feelings for the particular woman when I meet her. I may think she's attractive and nice and she may be friendly and respond to me, but that doesn't mean I'll "feel" a romantic attraction to her. If not, I wouldn't even try to ask her out. Not that I think I'm anything special. But I can't date if I don't feel a very strong initial attraction. I would feel like I'm trying to ask out my sister. I love my sister, but I don't "love" my sister.

 

I guess I'm just that relatively rare person who needs to "feel" or sense that "in love at first sight" feeling, for lack of a better expression. Don't know how else to say it. Even the married woman I have feelings for results in a sense of hurt. Yet this is different because she hasn't rejected me in a traditional sense at all. This is a self inflicted hurt. Maybe even hurt isn't the right word to use. Probably a sense of "disappointment" on my part, because there's nothing I can do. Yet, I can't stop thinking about her and she's so stuck in my heart.

 

I'll live this way because I have for so long. It's just sad. Rejection sucks. Unrequited feelings are very painful.

 

Just needed to get this topic off my mind, since I read many other threads from time to time dealing with somewhat similar matters. Thanks.

 

MARK1957

 

 

Unrequited love is not new to me, I have had a colorful past but in all reality the true heart of me is shy. An example of this would be french cricket........lol...random but important..i enjoy playing sport and did so as a girl i like team sports.....when i would go on holidays at my nannas place there would be this group of tourists who stayed in holiday houses right next door adn they would play french cricket ......i would sit patiently on the grass watching the game itching to play....but i would wait until i was asked because i felt rude by walking up and interrupting the game they were older kids and i was uncommonly unusually shy.History here caused this.So i would wait in the hot sun to be asked.......i always di get asked one of the boys would come up and say wanna play deb........

 

 

those memories and the smiles they gave me are imprinted on you guess it my heart..the guys name who always asked me to play was patrick.he probably didnt even know how much it meant to me, i never showed anything accept a smile and a thank you and kicked ass at french cricket..the kindness that he showed and the understanding that he gave a shy girl will not go away.Dont feel bad if you have unrequited love.......I am sorry that you are alone...try and find things about you and memories that you have that made a difference in your life...there is one love you have that knows everything about you that knows your heart and loves every aspect of you......i dont care if you humbug me..tell me to shu8t up its yoru right..its god ....god loves you and your heart.....and from me to you...heres a hug...ALWAYS HAVE HOPE...debxo

[jobaba]

I really liked your post OP. It reminds me that people are attracted to each other for reasons other than how hot the other person is and finding a physical equal, things that are drilled into my head here at LS.

 

My experiences have been similar. I have developed deep emotional attraction to only 4 women during my 30 some odd years and three of them have rejected me. The other led to a sometimes good, sometimes rocky relationship. I have been so drunk in love with at least two of these women that they have controlled my daily thoughts for periods over a year, and had me consider doing some crazy sh@t to win their love.

 

That said ... I think it's better to treat love in a more practical manner. Curtail your emotions and look for others that will accept you for who you are. After all, all emotions fade in my experience. You eventually got over those women, and when you did, maybe you realized how exaggerated and sensationalized those emotions were. I did.

 

I don't think it's too late for you. The next time you like a woman, document exactly why it is that you feel that way. When I do this with the three women who have rejected me, only one seemed worth having those feelings for, and lo and behold, I am still friends with her.

[MARK1957]

"there is one love you have that knows everything about you that knows your heart and loves every aspect of you......i dont care if you humbug me..tell me to shu8t up its yoru right..its god ....god loves you and your heart.....and from me to you...heres a hug...ALWAYS HAVE HOPE...debxo"

 

todreaminblue - I wouldn't think about telling you to shut up or humbug you, as you put it. That was really nice to say that about God. I appreciate that. Thank you. I'm assuming your name is Deb. As hard as it is for me to say what I've said in a public form about my life, I am a Christian who knows the ultimate truth too, even if other people don't believe. That does help me to get through each day. My faith is ultimately all that is important. Yes, I am very lonely, if the truth be told, but I will survive. I just wish there was a woman in my life I could survive it with but......oh well. Thanks again Deb. God bless and have a great day. (Your "statistics" say "down under".) Australia? If so, I've never been there. Anyway, thanks again.

 

Mark

[The Way I Am]

Good evening, Mark.

 

Thanks for your reply The Way I Am. It's ironic your user name is what it is. It sums me up perfectly.

I liked it as a username because it can have many interpretations. It's title of a song by Ingrid Michaelson. The lyrics are a list of things she'll do because she loves her partner, and the only thing she mentions getting in return is "you take me the way I am". It kind of sums up my take on relationships.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with your view on relationships and dating. I agree with you on that whole dating is a numbers game approach. I think people should just enjoy their lives, and if in the course of what they're doing, they meet someone who strikes their fancy, then they can pursue something more. If the numbers game works for people, more power to them, but it seems a bit soulless to me, and I don't blame you for not wanting to do that.

 

I completely understand what you mean by feeling a subconscious connection. Sometimes you meet a person and you're just immediately, strongly drawn to them without an explanation why. It happens for a lot of people, but it seems never very often per person. I remember a thread recently about that very same topic where most people had only had it happen once or twice and some never at all. I've had it happen once.

 

Most of the time, those don't work out, are unhealthy, or like you said, are one-sided. Nobody in the thread mentioned a happy outcome. Most of the successful, lasting relationships are between two people that didn't feel that powerful immediate connection but still felt a mutual attraction which grew as they got to know each other and became a more meaningful connection than those immediate ones. Most people who've experienced that powerful initial connection will always have a soft spot for the person or people they felt it for, but they would never trade the failed instant connection for the successful, more meaningful connection that took longer to form.

 

What I see different about you is that you've never found a milder attraction for a woman you've met in person which you could form into a meaningful connection. The question is why haven't you?

 

Here's what makes me think the answer might be that you're subconsciously holding back or denying attraction as a defense mechanism. You've said that you must have the immediate connection to a woman. There's something about her smile or disposition or something just subconscious when you meet her for you know know you want to be with that woman. I agree with you that there is something legitimate but unexplainable about the two women you've had feelings for in person. But if it were true that you could only have feelings for women that you have that immediate connection with, how did you start to develop feelings for the woman online before you'd ever even met her? That you did suggests to me that you are capable of developing feelings and attraction for someone without that instant connection, but maybe you've been subconsciously denying yourself that type of relationship with someone you've met in real life because it's scarier than it was online.

 

I also noticed the third woman you've had feelings for happens to be unavailable. Maybe that's not a coincidence. Maybe you allowed yourself to have feelings because being unavailable makes her safer than a single woman. You know where you stand with her and any rejection from her isn't a reflection on you. Her rejection would be because she's married.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the fact that she's married is the reason you have feelings for her. If that were the case, you'd have feelings for every married woman. We know you don't. But what I am suggesting is that she has qualities that attract you, and because her marriage makes her a safer outlet for your feelings, you allowed yourself to feel them. But if she were a single woman that came with the full risk of personal rejection, you might have subconsciously held back on your attraction.

 

That's why I suggest a therapist -- to see if there is something like that or something else holding you back from feeling attraction or connection to available women in real life, something that's keeping you from recognizing milder attractions that you can build over time into a deeper, meaningful connection.

 

I don't think you need counseling to change the way you feel about relationships, to not care so damn much, to learn play the numbers game, or anything else that involves changing the core of who you are. If a therapist were to suggest you do those things, then that would not be the right therapist for you. You need to talk to someone who has a similar take on relationships or at least can accept your take.

 

Hope that helps in some way.

Edited September 11, 2012 by The Way I Am
typos

[MARK1957]

Thanks for taking the time to read my long thread(s) and for replying.

 

Lack of confidence? Really? I don't think I've ever lacked confidence. It all depends on how you define confidence.

 

I'm confident in myself to be a very nice guy who can talk to any woman without being nervous and make a new friend if that's all it is.

 

As far as confidence to meet the right woman, I believe it's not about confidence as most 20 somethings on this forum talk about. I'm not a hard charging "take all prisoners" alpha male type who thinks he's everything and will attract a woman I most certainly will not be attracted to. I wouldn't like myself that way, which would certainly result in a complete lack of confidence.

 

I think it takes extreme confidence to be genuine and loyal and caring and loving and yes, a nice guy. You think that being a nice guy is to be a doormat? Respectfully disagree. I like being nice. I like holding doors open for women. I like making a woman feel appreciated by complimenting her when appropriate. Etc. If that's being a doormat, so be it. But I've never felt like a doormat. Ever. So DO NOT say that.

 

You stopped being a doormat? Really? You weren't true to yourself at all. Did you start acting differently around women? Maybe a little more rough around the edges? If that's what you wanted that's fine. Not to be mean, as you say, but it sounds like you are trying to tell me how to "pick up women". I know you don't mean it that way, but it sounds that way. "Picking up women" sounds like something a "rough around the edges, uncaring guy who just wants to use women and then throw them away" type of guy would do. No thanks. So not me.

 

Look, in the end, I like who I am as far as being able to be genuine and to care and to feel attached and to love a woman. If she doesn't feel the same, so be it. I can't magically make a woman love me. She either does or doesn't. If I found the woman who truly reciprocated my feelings for her, I would do anything to fully show her I want her completely in my life. For as long as we both live. I would propose in a heartbeat. I'm not a 50ish kind of man who is afraid of that. I crave it. It hasn't happened.

 

As far as staying away from married women - I'm not chasing this married woman. I met her and instantly fell for her. Only the fourth time in my entire adult life since I was 16-17. In any case , she's MARRIED. I DON'T CROSS that line. Have no desire or temptation to do it. I respect her immensely. Yes, she's absolutely gorgeous and very, very sweet. She's close(49) to my age but looks 35. We've talked and she thinks I'm a very sweet guy who "hasn't overstepped any bounds or done anything wrong" by expressing my feelings to her.(her words) She's my dear friend and I will be an absolute gentleman to her. I love talking to her and feel very happy when I'm able to do so. That's it. I don't know her marital situation - ie - Happy or unhappy. It's none of my business. If she wants to ever tell me she will. I have seen her wear her wedding ring, but just as often (actually more often) I've seen her not wear her wedding ring. Regardless, she's off limits and I will be there for her if she asks. I won't initiate anything with her. I WILL NOT risk losing her friendship. I at least have that.

 

I know you mean well, but I've only fallen in love 4 times in 38 YEARS for a reason.(including the married woman) It's the most special feeling a human being can have and I WON'T date unless I sense I have that feeling. If the women doesn't feel that for me at the same time, then I'll be lonely. If I try to date for the sake of dating, maybe I'll get lucky and actually meet that woman. I seriously doubt it though. Anyway, thanks for your concern and reply.

 

Mark

[MARK1957]

Good morning The Way I Am

 

I couldn't sleep and woke up early so I decided to log on and try to reply to your last response. (I think the loneliness I feel in my life doesn't help me to relax and I am often unable to sleep well)

 

Why haven't I ever found a milder attraction for a woman who I've met in person that I could form into a more meaningful connection? Great question!

 

The only thing I can think of is to go back to my belief that I need to "feel" a much stronger romantic attraction for a woman the moment I meet her in order to want to ask her out. In order to want to date her. "Milder" in my mind means less interested. Less interested means, at least to me, that I don't care enough - ie, not feeling romantically attracted enough to the woman. If I was able to at least pursue milder attractions and the woman started to feel strongly about me, I really believe I would end up causing her to feel hurt. I can't do that. I would feel horrible. Yet, if I was able to feel a very strong attraction for a woman from the moment I met her, and she reciprocated my feelings, I know I would "feel" in love. It would "feel" more "legitimate" to me. I'm not afraid of that at all. I crave that beyond belief. A "milder" attraction for me wouldn't feel like an attraction at all. It would feel forced. And, if the woman also felt "mildly" attracted to me, it would feel, to me, that she really wasn't interested enough. It would feel only like a friendship and nothing more. Nothing wrong with that, but without romantic love too, there is no basis for a love relationship. I guess what I want to happen is something that, while not impossible, is HIGHLY unlikely. And, that is, to fall in love with a woman who feels that way about me when we meet. An EXTREMELY rare occurrence I believe. The ultimate rarity is to fall in love with a woman I "meet" online who expresses the same feelings for me and feels that way when we meet. I thought the impossible happened as I detail below.

 

I realize, intellectually, that it makes sense to try to form a more milder attraction into a more meaningful relationship, but, emotionally, in my heart, I just can't get to that point. It's not "emotionally" logical to me.

 

How did I have the feelings for the woman I met on LS before I ever met her in person? I'll admit that's a tough one to explain. Perhaps you can understand by what I say next.

 

I believe I noted in my thread that she responded to me and began to talk a little about herself and, through her words, showed empathy for me and could identify with me somewhat. I "sensed" that she genuinely cared and, despite not even knowing what she looked like yet, I began quickly to fall in love with her caring about me. I realized I shouldn't have felt this way, at least not yet, and I immediately apologized to her for telling her my feelings. Yet, as I also previously noted, she emailed me back right away. She told me I didn't have to "temper my feelings" and could tell her "I love you" as long as I meant it and was genuine. That confirmed to me that she had, or at least was beginning to have those same feelings for me. As we continued to email each other, we would tell each other about how our day went and talked like a man and a woman who were in love. It felt SO GOOD. As an example, she told me at different times, through different emails, that, quote - "I wish I could give you a thousand hugs right now". "I love you very much. I wish I could give you a goodnight kiss right now." "I just wanted to tell you that I care about you very much, even though this has only been a "cyber" relationship. All I can do to show you my affection so far is this (a kiss symbol) and this" (a symbol of a man and woman hugging each other) She's bilingual in english and french, and she signed off that email by saying " Je t'aime beaucoup cheri" I asked her in another email if Je t'aime meant I like you or I love you and she responded by saying" Je t'aime can mean either I love you or I like you - in the context that I wrote, I meant as I love you" In another email she wrote "I am smiling now too because it is nice to feel loved the way you make me feel loved" She signed off on that email by saying "Je t'aime enormement"

 

These are all direct quotes from some of the emails I have kept. I just wanted to give some examples of what she actually said to me over 5 months before we met.(there were more) It's why I fell in love with her before I met her and why I continued to be in love with her after I met her. This is very difficult to let go of. I still haven't been able to do that. I still think about her everyday, just not as intensely as I used to. There's been no real closure. Before I left her city to return home I literally cried on and off for 3 days.

 

As far as the married woman is concerned, I realize nothing can happen. It's just that the "moment" I met her (I didn't know she was married at that moment) I came to have all those same feelings again for a woman. The attraction, the caring, the giddiness and yes, the "feeling" of love for a woman that I crave. You're right. I don't know how I would respond if she was single. I know she likes me and know that she knows I have feelings for her. I truly believe I would at least try to establish a relationship with her if she was available. Alas, she is not. But, the basis for having the feelings I need to have is there. Reciprocation is the key. That's been the problem my whole adult life. Where I go from here, I don't know.

 

Anyway, there's more I probably want to say, but I'm too tired to do so at the moment. I need to start getting ready for work. Thanks for listening The Way I Am. Have a nice day.

 

Mark

Edited September 11, 2012 by MARK1957
changing a word to accurately reflect a direct quote

[MARK1957]

Thanks for your reply. It seemed to be one that somewhat mirrored my experiences with rejection/hurt and unrequited love. As such, I could readily understand what you were trying to say. When you refer to your 30 some odd years, are you saying your in your 30's or are you referring to your adult years regarding dating and are about my age?

 

I appreciate your suggested solutions for trying to get a handle on my problems regarding this topic. However.........

 

You say it's better to treat love in a more practical manner. Intellectually, I agree. Emotionally, I can't do it. To me, love is that all encompassing, giddy, over the top romantic, tender feeling about a woman, that makes me want to lose myself in her completely, and to want to do anything I could for her - and for her to feel the same about me. A feeling of being so completely and overwhelmingly "in love". I realize how that might sound to many people on this forum, but it is how I need to feel. I won't apologize for it.

 

I read where people say love is an action and not a feeling. I COMPLETELY disagree. I believe an action follows a feeling. I would want to act in a way to please and make a woman happy if I "felt" "in love" with her. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't act accordingly.

 

If I curtailed my emotions regarding love, I couldn't love and therefore wouldn't be able to have a romantic relationship anyway. As I said in my reply to The Way I Am, trying to have a more mild attraction for a woman to build to a more meaningful connection, wouldn't "feel" like an attraction at all. It wouldn't feel romantic to me and therefore there wouldn't be any basis for a love relationship.

 

For me, emotions have NOT faded in my experience, because my feelings, when I have them (only 4 times, like you) are something I haven't forgot

to this day, even the few ones that were not quite so strong. (and therefore do not count in those 4 in particular. Those were much easier to get over. Probably because they were much milder attractions.) I do agree though that the intensity of the emotions probably dissipate to some extent, but ONLY if replaced by the same feelings for another woman, and for me that has taken a LOT of time. Proof - 20 1/2 YEARS for the woman 23 years ago and 3 years and still counting, to some extent, for the woman online through LS 3 years ago. The woman I have feelings for now who's married, is a somewhat unique situation because she's married and I WON'T EVEN TRY TO CROSS THAT LINE. I didn't know she was married the moment I met her, but my feelings were immediate for her.(the fourth of the four) Nothing will happen, but it certainly doesn't make my feelings any less valid. But, in time, I suspect my feelings of love for her will dissipate to some extent because I want to be her friend more than anything else if I can't have her in my life as her lover. And that won't happen, I'm afraid. I know she likes me and know that she knows how I feel and she's fine about that and wants to be a close friend and I'm happy and can live with that and want that too, if that's all it will be. But, I can NEVER forget those emotions completely.

 

Honestly, Jobaba, I NEVER have believed my emotions were exaggerated or sensationalized. EVER. If I did, I would have doubted they were valid very quickly and would have been able to move on very quickly. I've NEVER been able to do that. (ie: move on quickly)

 

I don't know if it's too late for me. I think it probably is though.

 

I can't document exactly why I feel the way I do. It's just not that cut and dried with me. It's just "something" on a subconscious level that's happened EXTREMELY RARELY, that gives me a "feeling" of being hopelessly in love. I can't verbalize why. Honestly.

 

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and for reading my post. Getting feedback at least helps me to understand that people do at least want to try and help. Thanks.

 

Mark

[jobaba]

Thanks for your reply. It seemed to be one that somewhat mirrored my experiences with rejection/hurt and unrequited love. As such, I could readily understand what you were trying to say. When you refer to your 30 some odd years, are you saying your in your 30's or are you referring to your adult years regarding dating and are about my age?

 

I appreciate your suggested solutions for trying to get a handle on my problems regarding this topic. However.........

 

You say it's better to treat love in a more practical manner. Intellectually, I agree. Emotionally, I can't do it. To me, love is that all encompassing, giddy, over the top romantic, tender feeling about a woman, that makes me want to lose myself in her completely, and to want to do anything I could for her - and for her to feel the same about me. A feeling of being so completely and overwhelmingly "in love". I realize how that might sound to many people on this forum, but it is how I need to feel. I won't apologize for it.

 

I read where people say love is an action and not a feeling. I COMPLETELY disagree. I believe an action follows a feeling. I would want to act in a way to please and make a woman happy if I "felt" "in love" with her. If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't act accordingly.

 

If I curtailed my emotions regarding love, I couldn't love and therefore wouldn't be able to have a romantic relationship anyway. As I said in my reply to The Way I Am, trying to have a more mild attraction for a woman to build to a more meaningful connection, wouldn't "feel" like an attraction at all. It wouldn't feel romantic to me and therefore there wouldn't be any basis for a love relationship.

 

For me, emotions have NOT faded in my experience, because my feelings, when I have them (only 4 times, like you) are something I haven't forgot

to this day, even the few ones that were not quite so strong. (and therefore do not count in those 4 in particular.

 

I am in my 30s. My experiences with infatuation/unrequited love range from when I was 20 to one just last year.

 

And I say infatuation, because that's what it is when you have feelings for someone you cannot have.

 

I am similar to you in that we are both unsuccessful with women. The difference is you seek that emotional attachment. I try my best to avoid it. I think it's very unhealthy to develop such feelings for another person BEFORE you end up dating.

 

You are going all in and risking nothing in return. Think about that for a 2nd.

[Mrlonelyone]

Mark everyone feels the way you do.

 

When love is real it never totally disappears, even when it's over. The form and shape and texture of the love may change, from a hot flame to a cold ember but that ember last. I have been in relationships over my years some were people who I knew for a time and now don't know. One has woven themselves into and out of the fabric of my life for many years.

 

When the nights are quiet and our homes lonely we cannot help but think about past loves. Think why didn't that work out? What did I do wrong? What did they do wrong? How can I do right this time? The lucky ones then appreciate who they are with that much more.

 

In this you are not alone but you have lived for years without another someone. Your pain is human and common to us all.

 

Right now I feel what you have felt. A powerful heartbroken feeling but with no one to feel heartbroken over even. I know how wrong for me those I dated or was interested in in the past were for me. My emotions just are what they are. It is as if my pulse is gone and my heart does not even beat for me. I know how you feel everyone does.

 

Unrequited love feels better than not feeling anything at all. Feeling is human. Im sure someday you will have the good feelings of love and companionship.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Mrlonelyone

[FitChick]

I am dealing with something similar. I've had a tumultuous and disturbing reaction to someone new and figured out he reminded me of the big love affair of my life many years ago, which nearly destroyed me.

 

I don't like my reactions to this new situation and have started doing some self-healing work but really need to sit down and dig deep. Not fun but it has to be done.

[The Way I Am]

Hey, Mark. Hope you're doing well. Just wanted to let you know I've got some initial thoughts on your latest but I haven't been able to sit and flesh them out into words yet.

[MARK1957]

Good evening. Thank you The Way I Am. You "sound" like a very thoughtful woman. I appreciate your comments very much and to take your valuable time to respond. I am doing OK.

 

Loneliness does seem to be part of the fabric of my life though. Sometimes I think I've gotten used to it, and then it hits me squarely in the face again. Like at this point in my life. (Not like it stopped magically within the last 3 years. It just moves along a continuing spectrum) Nothing in particular triggers it that I'm aware of. It just happens. That tells me I'll never get used to it. When I first posted on LS 3 years ago, that's when a bad bout of loneliness really hit me again. It seems to happen much more frequently though.

 

All the things I quoted about what the woman from 3 years ago said to me in private emails over 5 months are the EXACT words she said. There were some more similar expressions from her, but I didn't want to overdo it. I posted them only if to show why my attraction to her was more than mild. That doesn't explain the attraction I "felt" before she sent me some of those emails, but I "sensed" her caring from the start and genuinely believe I fell in love with that caring,(the only way I can think of to explain that part of it) before she reciprocated starting shortly after we began corresponding. Does that make sense?

 

Something I've thought about since my last reply , was the notion of "mild" attraction - ie- how to define mild. The attraction I refer to for myself is that of a VERY strong one. I met over the course of about 38 years 4 women who I instantly felt EXTREMELY attracted to - hence, more than mild in my mind/heart. Of course that included physical attraction, but NOT just that. This forum seems to be littered with men who can only focus on that. (not all, but certainly more than not - my humble opinion) I just don't know how to explain it adequately. It can include the "look" of a smile; pretty eyes that "seem" to look right through mine with a "caring" look; the aura of a very, very sweet personality; even her voice that somehow penetrates my soul with a sound of friendliness and caring. All these things just melt my heart emotionally. I realize this must sound absolutely crazy, but it's only happened 4 times in 38 years to me. With the woman from 3 years ago, those things were confirmed for me the moment I finally met her in person, but, even crazier, I felt that way after we started communicating before meeting. As I said, that part of it involved her words alone - they were caring and loving to me - so much so that I felt as if I had met her in person first.

 

With the married woman now, it was the same thing as the first 2 women.(ie- met her in person first rather than later) When I met her I DIDN'T know she was married. That was unknown to me until I saw her the 2nd time. ( by "saw" I mean in a business environment - not socially) As I say, I wouldn't do that under any circumstances unless she is single - but it IS difficult emotionally. I think about her a lot, but I hope it's not in a way that involves me "pining". At least I don't think so. (Maybe I am wrong about that. Not sure) I can be there as her friend if she ever needed me for anything. It is easier to be more detached from her to some extent because I know - even with her being a married woman - that she knows I like her and care for her and am very attracted to her. Yet she has specifically told me I haven't overstepped any bounds or done anything wrong regarding expressing feelings for her. I wouldn't want to do anything to "screw' up , so to speak, a friendship with her.

 

In any case, my feelings for these women were formed instantly. By instantly, I mean within the first minute or two. Not at least without talking briefly and listening to them. (That would be bizarre, even for me. LOL)

 

This might contradict what I've said about not even thinking about asking women out who I perceive having "only" a "mild" (ie- not feeling initially what I described above) attraction to. I have indeed met women over the years that I did find attractive to the point of thinking about them and at least wondering about asking them out. Ultimately, I believe I would think about how much I would feel hurt if they rejected me. So, I suppose I felt attracted enough to at least have a desire to want to go out with any one of them - and attracted enough to at least contemplate the notion of feeling hurt.

 

Yet, I didn't ask them out. Ultimately, my feelings for those women subsided reasonably quickly,(with no particular feeling of hurt - maybe just disappointment that subsided quickly) confirming in my mind that the attraction was "too mild" or just not there after all. But, with the MUCH MORE than mild attraction I have and have had virtually instantly (within a minute or two), my feelings have NEVER subsided quickly at all.

 

And yes, there have been women I've met who I've either had a "mild" attraction to or simply wasn't attracted to in the way I feel I need to be to ask that woman out. Some became friends and I was happy with that. There was no hurt whatsoever.

 

Sorry for this reply. Didn't mean to make it SO long. I just wanted to clarify some things about "mild" attraction, since that was the jist of my previous reply. I still believe what I wrote in my last reply about my notion of "mild" attraction, but I can certainly try to define that more specifically, based on what I said above.

 

Thank you very much, The Way I Am, for your thoughtfulness for being interested in responding. Much appreciated. Hope to hear from you. Have a nice evening.

 

Mark

Edited September 14, 2012 by MARK1957
Adding a sentence to expand on clarification

[The Way I Am]

Hi, Mark. Thanks for sticking around. I'm happy to at least try to help, especially when I a poster is appreciative of everyone's input, really seems to want some help, and is willing to do some introspection and reconsider their perspective like you do.

 

If I was able to at least pursue milder attractions and the woman started to feel strongly about me, I really believe I would end up causing her to feel hurt. I can't do that. I would feel horrible.

 

This was the first thing that caught my attention. It's very sweet of you to not want to hurt a woman, but you don't have to be quite that cautious for women's sake. The average woman over 40 I think knows relationships sometimes don't work out. Most won't be heartbroken if you realize after a couple dates that you're not crazy about them. Don't put so much pressure on yourself about that.

 

I'm not really sure how to explain what I'm trying to say in this next part. I was hoping hoping if I gave it a little time, I'd think of a way for it to make sense. Nothing has really come to me. Hopefully it'll make some sense.

 

To me, when you describe the relationship with the woman over email, it just seems so close to in nature to meeting someone you're mildly attracted to and building to those kinds of feelings by talking and bonding together. You developed those feelings because you knew she cared about you then you met her in person and saw she was a complete package for you. The way I see it, if you can be mildly attracted to a woman, there's a good chance you could do that in reverse, which would be less risky than online since you'd have confirmation of a mutual attraction before falling for each other.

 

You fell in love with her as a person before you met her. So to me, it seems possible that you might be able to meet a woman you're mildly attracted to, fall in love with her as a person, and then be totally passionately crazy about her. And she'll have that look or aura about her, because she'll be in love with you, too.

 

I have indeed met women over the years that I did find attractive to the point of thinking about them and at least wondering about asking them out. Ultimately, I believe I would think about how much I would feel hurt if they rejected me. So, I suppose I felt attracted enough to at least have a desire to want to go out with any one of them - and attracted enough to at least contemplate the notion of feeling hurt.

 

The fact that you were attracted to other women enough that you thought of asking them out gives me a lot of hope for you!

 

Yet, I didn't ask them out. Ultimately, my feelings for those women subsided reasonably quickly,(with no particular feeling of hurt - maybe just disappointment that subsided quickly) confirming in my mind that the attraction was "too mild" or just not there after all. But, with the MUCH MORE than mild attraction I have and have had virtually instantly (within a minute or two), my feelings have NEVER subsided quickly at all.

 

I've been in agreement with you on everything but this. I think if you'd have been able to get past that fear of rejection, you might have fallen in love with one of those women.

 

Love doesn't always have to start out with that bang. I have an example for you. I have a male friend who kind of liked a woman about 3 years ago. He wasn't completely crazy about her, but he liked her enough to ask her out. There was another woman he encountered frequently who he was much more enamored with. When he would tell me about the first woman, she sounded great, level-headed, and down to earth. I told him as much, and encouraged him to keep seeing where things went. But he would say things like "she just doesn't make me feel like the other woman does". The other woman wasn't really giving him the time of day. Fast forward about 2 and a half years and my friend tells me that he's planning to ask the woman he wasn't so sure about to marry him. I was a little surprised, because even though I knew they had been together awhile, he hadn't really talked to me about his feelings for her since when he had been unsure. Also, he had always been very weary of the idea of marriage. When I asked him why he'd made the decision, I was expecting something disheartening like, "she's pushing me to do it". I can't remember his exact words, but it was the most romantic sentiment I've ever heard anyone say. More genuine and heartfelt than any romantic movie. It was clear he's never been happier in his life, and he doesn't want to be with any other woman.

 

If an unromantic guy like him can fall completely in love with someone he was iffy about, I think a deeply romantic guy like yourself has a good chance at falling in love with a woman you're attracted to.

 

But it won't be without risk. You have a wall in the form of fear of rejection. You'll have to break down that wall. For you, I'm not really sure what to suggest to go about that. If you can figure that out, I think it'll be a first step toward mutual, lasting love.

[MARK1957]

Good afternoon The Way I Am.

 

I just wanted to respond quickly before I head out the door.

 

I really appreciate your feedback about everything I've said. You've made me really think about some things and have given me some perspective.

 

I would like to ponder some things you've said and give you my feedback when I have more time to respond. - just food for thought. For me, it comes down to the depth of attraction I've felt for a woman and my "internal" response to rejection and how I need to deal with that. To this day, I don't know why I am sensitive like I am and am the romantic like I am. Have always been that way. Have ALWAYS wanted to treat the woman I love like she was everything. Maybe women don't want that. I don't know. Unfortunately, I've never had a woman reciprocate my romantic feelings in person. Never. When I read posts about men cheating and so forth, it boggles my mind. Oh well. Have to go.

 

Have a nice day,

 

Mark

Edited September 15, 2012 by MARK1957
Incorrect spelling of a word - wrong tense.

[CaliGuy]

For me, it comes down to the depth of attraction I've felt for a woman and my "internal" response to rejection and how I need to deal with that. To this day, I don't know why I am sensitive like I am and am the romantic like I am. Have always been that way. Have ALWAYS wanted to treat the woman I love like she was everything. Maybe women don't want that. I don't know. Unfortunately, I've never had a woman reciprocate my romantic feelings in person. Never. When I read posts about men cheating and so forth, it boggles my mind.

 

Hey Mark, you actually ring some past experiences of my own. I will tell you that one of the most important lessons I have learned over the past 5 years or so is simply this:

 

"If you don't love yourself and who you are you simply cannot expect others to love you either." That's it. I could tell you to go read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" or other things but it is simply loving and respecting yourself first. Once you can do that, you'll start to see others in a different light and by proxy be more attractive to others.

 

In my case (which brought me to LS so many years ago), I didn't realize I was "objectifying" women (comes from being in bands for many years where you don't really trust women in general and they keep throwing themselves at you). By the time the lesson sunk in I realized that I could/should have been married a long, long time ago (when I was in my early 20s). Wasn't mature enough to handle it then and didn't know the things I know now.

 

Even at your age you're not out of the game (CaliGuy is not a spring chicken anymore either, haha). You still have a lot to offer the right woman. You just need to be right with yourself before you can even think about being ready for a relationship. Since I've been in a new state I've run into many "opportunities" (dates) and I'm enjoying life -- with no expectations and without thinking about what I *personally* am going to gain from it. It's more about finding a friend first and let God guide you in your path.

 

As someone who has died and been to the other side myself, I can tell you that His plans are greater for you than your own. Drop me a PM if you want to chat more. That is, if you're interested in my advice. I've gotten many personal messages lately on LS so I have room for more.

 

Have a great rest of your weekend, sir!

[MARK1957]

Good Early Morning The Way I Am:

 

Hello. I hope you're well.

 

Just to wrap things up.

 

I guess I've said about everything that's been on my mind dealing with the last 3 years and, by extension, the 20 1/2 years prior to that, regarding my overall mindset about attraction/ dating/relationships/unrequited love and the inevitable hurt I've felt.

 

For me, it all comes down to how I've dealt with rejection and the "degree" of attraction I perceive I "need" to feel about a woman.

 

One of the things you said in your last reply is absolutely right. I have a wall in the form of a fear of rejection. But, the degree of attraction I've felt about a woman is the factor that determines how much I fear rejection. The rejection I've felt, that has been so intense, has only happened with the few women I've had a VERY STRONG initial attraction for.

 

As an example - and I've not yet mentioned this - I met a woman very shortly before I met Sharon. I thought she was very nice and attractive. (yet, she was one of the women I've met in my adult life I DIDN'T "feel" SO romantically attracted to initially - unlike the woman 3 years ago online and then in person; and unlike my married woman friend). I was able to talk with her easily enough and we seemed to get along well, so I decided I wanted to ask her out. She did not have a boyfriend. (told me) ( I was not quite 31. She was 27) She very nicely and politely said that she didn't want to see anyone at the moment and wasn't interested in dating, but that I was sweet for asking.

 

I believe because I WASN'T initially VERY attracted to her, (though I liked her and thought she was attractive) that I didn't feel hurt by the rejection. Honestly. I was disappointed for maybe 15 minutes and that was it. We remained friends for the next 8 years until she moved out of state. I never tried to ask her out again. Didn't even cross my mind. I guess I had a "mild" attraction to her, but "not enough" in my mind/heart to "feel" hurt.

 

I recall other women I've met before - who I thought were nice and attractive - that I was "mildly" attracted to. I didn't ask them out because I didn't "feel" enough of an attraction. Perhaps I might have fallen for one of them and they for me, but it's a moot point. I didn't "feel" enough of an attraction. It's great that your friend fell for a woman he was "iffy" about initially, as you say. Never happened to me.

 

My perception of degree of attraction has changed somewhat since you first responded to my post. Maybe just not enough yet. It's something I'll have to ponder. I probably could ask women out that I don't feel STRONGLY attracted to initially. But, I just can't bring myself to do it. Not yet anyway. I honestly don't know if I can. I don't have a fear of rejection from women I don't "feel" attracted to enough. The fear comes from being rejected by a woman like the one from 3 years ago. (and from Sharon - at that time. And now, from my married woman friend had she been single) In hindsight, that was so much worse than Sharon. Not even close. I can live with a friendship from my married woman friend. She's told me she likes me and cares about me. That's good enough since she's not available, but my feelings for her are still of the "romantic" nature. I think about her often. I believe the hurt I've felt is greatest from the woman of 3 years ago because she did tell me she loved me and cared about me, as a girl would tell her boyfriend. She's the only woman who ever said those words, despite it being through email. I still think about her very often.

 

As you say, I have to break down the wall of the fear of rejection. I don't know how I'll do that. The degree of attraction I feel for a woman initially is still the determining factor of how hurt I perceive I'd feel if she rejected me. It's a conundrum.

 

Thanks for all your support. It's appreciated. I hardly ever come on LS to start a thread. I needed to get this topic off my mind again. I'm probably not the one to give anyone any kind of advice about relationships. It is interesting though to read many of the threads, which I do everyday.

 

Anyway, thanks The Way I Am. Your responses to people come across as very thoughtful and considerate. If you're married or have a boyfriend, he's a very lucky guy.

 

Take care,

 

Mark

Edited September 18, 2012 by MARK1957
change wording in a sentence to make it more readable