Someone else likes same guy

[The Way I Am]

Since you've misrepresenting what I've said I feel I should correct you. I'll keep the answers brief since I really don't want to turn spiderowl's thread into a discussion on this if it's not helping her. Please start a new thread if you want to debate this further.

 

How at all is it guaranteed for men?

It's not guaranteed for men, but the expectations for dating make it an unwise gamble for women.

 

Basically you seem to be trying to say that approaching a person that has not really indicated interest one way or the other is a good gamble for men.

Except that in that bit you quoted, I said the exact opposite.

 

"Would you advise a guy go after a girl who isn't giving off signals because she might be shy? I wouldn't"

 

I don't think you realize how many times men fail, you assume they only take calculated risks and never ask out someone that is not showing interest.

Their fault. Like I said, I wouldn't advise them to do that.

 

Let's guess the shy pretty girl gets asked out 50 times and may choose 1 guy, maybe.

Having been the "shy pretty girl", I can tell you they don't get asked out very much, because the "shy pretty girl" doesn't know how to give off the signals to encourage a guy to ask her out. I had an advantage in college, because I was in a male-dominated field and the only female in most of my classes. So I got asked out more than a girl who was in a more mixed environment, but I didn't get asked out by the guys I really thought were cute.

 

If a man can't recognize signals from a woman and gets rejected a lot, I suggest he take the steps to learn the signals. If a woman isn't getting asked out and thinks it's because the guy doesn't know she's interest, I suggest she take the steps to learn how to show the signals.

 

 

As it relates directly to spiderowl, I want to address this.

 

By the way, we are not talking about approaching men or women showing clear interest, that is another discussion. We are talking about more or less a cold approach with a casual acquaintance.

You're apparently talking about her taking a cold approach, which definitely has a higher risk of failure.

 

I'm talking about turning it into a situation where on his part, it'll be about asking out a woman showing clear interest. That's why I've suggested spiderowl get to work flirting with the guy and showing those clear signs of interest.

Edited September 12, 2012 by The Way I Am
emphasis

[todreaminblue]

I've become interested in a guy in my social circle. He's not attached, as far as I know. He's been a bit friendly and I've been friendly back. It seemed that he was making an effort to talk to me. But, I've been feeling very confused because one minute he seems warm and friendly, another distant but polite. I'm about to give up on him and assume he's just not interested but there is another factor and I don't know if it's anything to do with it.

 

I occasionally give a lift to someone I know who goes to the same places. We are not good friends, more like acquaintances who chat sometimes. I know she spent some time with this guy working on a musical performance but they didn't continue this. I didn't think any more of it, but I'm gradually realising she might be keen on him. She seeks him out to talk to him and has mentioned him on occasions. I have never asked her about him or whether her collaboration was more than for a performance, but now I'm wondering. I'm also wondering if this could explain his changeable behaviour towards me. If I am with her he seems distant. On the other hand, I haven't got the feeling he's about to ask me out when she isn't around, just that he's making an effort to chat and be warm. I do feel a spark, I have to admit, but I don't know if it's mutual.

 

I guess I would like to ask what guys think about the situation. I think he must know that this casual friend of mine likes him, even though I've only just realised there might be some tension there that is affecting how he behaves with me when she's around. I don't want to ask her about him because it would be really difficult if I found out they'd dated at some point or that she was in love with him. He's the first guy I've really been interested in in ages! This is an awkward and confusing situation. Have any guys experienced anything akin to this? Any thoughts?

 

 

i have a similar situation, a friend of mine mentions him alot, talks about him all the time, once said that she knew she was too old for him but has pictured going fro him when he was standing in her kitchen.I actually do get the green eyed monster thing happening when this occurs.Then i feel guilt because she is being a good friend and i want this guy to have good friends i just want him basically i am in love with him.She once told me that i was over the hill, and then she will tell me that i sound younger than my daughter.If this lady were younger i feel that she would have tried.He is younger than me.I do feel guilt because i know this lady is lonely and her heart is hoping that she has someone to be joined for all eternity too......and i think why would i deserve that when she cant......guilt is stuffed i tell you....but in saying this i care about him deeply dont know why i started but its not something i can stop from feeling.I dont know what he feels for me honestly i sensed a spark caught a few things and i think we would be good together.....very good.....it has made it awkward for me.....and i dont want to interfere in a firm friendship or because any bad feelings.......but i am finding it hard.......he also told em his heart is set on someone else so yeah big fat ball of confusion and misread signs but a true kamikaze goes down in battle in any kind of weather.....so ill kamikaze soon......have to try......its my way......subtle try but a try none the less...let me know how you go or what subtlety you use....give me some hints if they work....lol.....i take advice offered and see if i can use it....;0)..deb

Edited September 12, 2012 by todreaminblue

[spiderowl]

The secret is venturing less overtly for greater gains.

 

 

spiderowl, I avoided offering direct advice to your OP since you asked for guy's opinions, but what the hell...

 

First, what's the situation with the girl acquaintance? If you got together with this guy, would you still have her around a lot potentially complicating things? Is she part of your social circle and you'd still see her fairly often, or is she somebody you wouldn't have to see or speak to ever again?

 

I ask because if it's the former, and you avoid asking her questions about him now, it could be a drama waiting to happen. You might be better off knowing what you're getting into and getting out now rather than walking blindly into a sh*t storm without a pancho. If it's the latter, who cares what happened between them. You don't need to ask.

 

Second, if you really want to know whether this guy is acting distant because she's around, stop bringing her around. Then get your freakin' flirt on and see if the guy asks you out.

 

Thanks, I do appreciate your thoughts.

 

Yes, this lady is likely to be around, but I'm fed up with this guy now. I saw him this evening, was friendly and chatted, but he seemed preoccupied. He responded seemed warm and so on, but was making no effort whatsoever. So, I'm clearly wasting my time with him. It's a shame but that's life sometimes.

 

This lady was there earlier and then left. I think they spoke. It was unusual for her to leave. I don't know what's going on there but, regardless, I didn't feel he was interested in me.

 

Another guy sat between us (a guy who is interested) - isn't that typical? It was the last thing I wanted really 'cos the in-between guy is a bit creepy. So there I am, wishing the one I liked would make an effort with me and the other guy is doing his best to engage me in conversation with him! I had to be polite. It always seems to be the case that the guys I'm attracted to aren't interested and the ones I'm not are!

[spiderowl]

but its not something i can stop from feeling.I dont know what he feels for me honestly i sensed a spark caught a few things and i think we would be good together.....very good.....it has made it awkward for me.....and i dont want to interfere in a firm friendship or because any bad feelings.......but i am finding it hard.......he also told em his heart is set on someone else so yeah big fat ball of confusion and misread signs but a true kamikaze goes down in battle in any kind of weather.....so ill kamikaze soon......have to try......its my way......subtle try but a try none the less...let me know how you go or what subtlety you use....give me some hints if they work....lol.....i take advice offered and see if i can use it....;0)..deb

 

I'm sorry to hear it. I do understand how you feel. I feel the same way. I like this lady though we are not close friends and haven't got as far as sharing stories of our love lives (or lack of them). She's not really my type of female friend either, for reasons which have nothing to do with the present situation.

 

It must be a common situation, friends both liking the same guy. Are both supposed to step back and let the other 'have' the guy, assuming he wants either of them? At what point in a friendship do you go from being acquaintances to friends? At what point should you put their love life above your own? I'm not talking about being selfish here but how to distinguish between caring about a friend and going too far and being selfless.

[The Way I Am]

I saw him this evening, was friendly and chatted, but he seemed preoccupied. He responded seemed warm and so on, but was making no effort whatsoever. So, I'm clearly wasting my time with him. It's a shame but that's life sometimes.

 

Bummer. Oh well. At least you tried.

 

This lady was there earlier and then left. I think they spoke. It was unusual for her to leave. I don't know what's going on there but, regardless, I didn't feel he was interested in me.

She's oddly gone, and he's preoccupied. Hmm... Sounds like you were onto something.

 

Another guy sat between us (a guy who is interested) - isn't that typical? It was the last thing I wanted really 'cos the in-between guy is a bit creepy. So there I am, wishing the one I liked would make an effort with me and the other guy is doing his best to engage me in conversation with him! I had to be polite. It always seems to be the case that the guys I'm attracted to aren't interested and the ones I'm not are!

I hate when that happens!

 

That used to happen to me a lot. In the last year or two, I guess I've adopted the ability to immediately become turned off to guys who aren't acting 100% interested. Before, I'd have held out hope that that I'd misread the situation or if I could just do xyz they'd change their minds.

 

Just don't bother with this guy anymore. On the bright side, maybe you're better off. He and the other girl seem to have some kind of unpleasant drama going on. At least you're not in her shoes. Maybe he's not the kind of guy a girl should go after.

Edited September 13, 2012 by The Way I Am

[spiderowl]

Thanks The Way I Am, yes it's ironic that the creepy guy appeared and sat down between us, but I guess it showed up the contrast between their behaviours.

 

It does seem odd that she went. I'm curious as to what's happened and also concerned. He seemed oblivious as to why she had gone because someone else asked. It's strange, I did feel there was some sort of tension there on her part, but not his. It may all be coincidence and she'd just left the cooker on or something!

 

Unfortunately, he often seems preoccupied, so I'd best try and forget. It's not that easy. He's the first guy I've felt attraction for in ages and we did seem to be warming to each other. Looks like that's as far as it goes. If I don't feel the guy is making any moves, I give up.

[ChatroomHero]

Since you've misrepresenting what I've said I feel I should correct you. I'll keep the answers brief since I really don't want to turn spiderowl's thread into a discussion on this if it's not helping her. Please start a new thread if you want to debate this further.

 

It's not guaranteed for men, but the expectations for dating make it an unwise gamble for women.

 

Except that in that bit you quoted, I said the exact opposite.

 

"Would you advise a guy go after a girl who isn't giving off signals because she might be shy? I wouldn't"

 

Their fault. Like I said, I wouldn't advise them to do that.

 

Having been the "shy pretty girl", I can tell you they don't get asked out very much, because the "shy pretty girl" doesn't know how to give off the signals to encourage a guy to ask her out. I had an advantage in college, because I was in a male-dominated field and the only female in most of my classes. So I got asked out more than a girl who was in a more mixed environment, but I didn't get asked out by the guys I really thought were cute.

 

If a man can't recognize signals from a woman and gets rejected a lot, I suggest he take the steps to learn the signals. If a woman isn't getting asked out and thinks it's because the guy doesn't know she's interest, I suggest she take the steps to learn how to show the signals.

 

 

As it relates directly to spiderowl, I want to address this.

 

You're apparently talking about her taking a cold approach, which definitely has a higher risk of failure.

 

I'm talking about turning it into a situation where on his part, it'll be about asking out a woman showing clear interest. That's why I've suggested spiderowl get to work flirting with the guy and showing those clear signs of interest.

 

 

 

A better indicator of this guy's interest would be if she asked him out and she got an actual response rather than playing the game of taking meaningless gestures and over-analyzing them to death to come to the result he must not be interested because he wasn't crazy-mad in love with her at first sight.

 

What does she have to lose, self-esteem from getting rejected? No big deal.

[The Way I Am]

Thanks The Way I Am, yes it's ironic that the creepy guy appeared and sat down between us, but I guess it showed up the contrast between their behaviours.

 

I guess it was a good thing he showed up then.

 

It does seem odd that she went. I'm curious as to what's happened and also concerned. He seemed oblivious as to why she had gone because someone else asked. It's strange, I did feel there was some sort of tension there on her part, but not his. It may all be coincidence and she'd just left the cooker on or something!

 

Could be just a coincidence and had nothing to do with him. Could be she left because of him and he was clueless about it. Could be she left because of him, he knew, and is good at playing ignorant.

 

If something was wrong, she probably would have mentioned it to someone, no? Hopefully nothing was wrong with her.

 

Unfortunately, he often seems preoccupied, so I'd best try and forget. It's not that easy. He's the first guy I've felt attraction for in ages and we did seem to be warming to each other.

As much as I'd like it not to be true, a guy will make time to talk to a girl he likes if she's sitting right in front of him. Unless he's trying to play "hard to get" or something equally dumb, but guys generally don't do that.

 

Looks like that's as far as it goes. If I don't feel the guy is making any moves, I give up.

 

Good call.

 

Don't put any effort into the guy. Be friendly with him if he comes to chat, but don't seek him out or read into anything you think might be chemistry. If you're capable of keeping up casual flirting without getting your hopes up, then keep flirting.

 

He may come around at some point, and my dog might stop tearing up pillows when I leave her alone. I'm not leaving my dog alone with a pillow anytime soon. And I recommend you try to do your best to clamp on your attraction to the guy as best you're able.

 

Don't be tempted by a hot and cold routine. You gave him his chance. Now if he actually does have an interest, he'll need to make it painfully obvious before you should take any flirting from him seriously.

[todreaminblue]

I'm sorry to hear it. I do understand how you feel. I feel the same way. I like this lady though we are not close friends and haven't got as far as sharing stories of our love lives (or lack of them). She's not really my type of female friend either, for reasons which have nothing to do with the present situation.

 

It must be a common situation, friends both liking the same guy. Are both supposed to step back and let the other 'have' the guy, assuming he wants either of them? At what point in a friendship do you go from being acquaintances to friends? At what point should you put their love life above your own? I'm not talking about being selfish here but how to distinguish between caring about a friend and going too far and being selfless.

 

 

i agree with your points thanks for posting, I can be too selfless at times i have been changing though.

 

 

I really do feel the guy i am attracted too that we would be good together, i have a lot to offer in love and relationships.I deserve to be happy, in the past my love life has involved letting go of my dreams......my aspirations my beliefs ...no more...my dreams are dreams that can be shared and I want to find a person who loves me to share them with.I have decided to follow my heart am ready for rejection as it will just be another step closer to my aspirations.I am going to lob the ball into his court if he doesnt want to play ill take it on the chin and deal with the rejection take some time to recoup, give myself a pep talk as i always do and when i am ready to try to date ill do what i always do and just get out and meet people in the everyday join some groups a dance class ....who knows what will happen.....as far as the friend in comp with me.......handball is my game......i think she is a wonderful person she makes me angry sometimes but most people do and I am not doing anything underhanded, I feel i could give him what he needs in a relationship and a load of fun.......

 

 

im not a good flirt....i prefer straight up then flirt...i feel awkward flirting...i have already been straight up....so its his serve once i spin that ball in again to his side........if i get no response i am not going to torture myself waiting....and it is .....torturous .....ill start to heal from it and eventually i will be ready to try again.....whenever that is.......i do feel strong and confident and today more than ever don't know why....i just am and i will not analyse it...just work with it and when i do get down ill work with that too it just means i need to reflect spend some time on myself...no more guilt.....lol i nearly sorry for my winded reply....nah not sorry.thanks for reading it though.deb.

[The Way I Am]

I didn't want to reply, but you keep saying silly stuff. And spiderowl seems not to mind the convo.

 

rather than playing the game of taking meaningless gestures and over-analyzing them to death to come to the result he must not be interested because he wasn't crazy-mad in love with her at first sight.

You're just being absurd now. And you keep misrepresenting my point.

 

There's no "game of taking meaningless gestures and over-analyzing them to death". I don't know where you even got that from. I suggest a woman analyze only one single meaningful gesture or lack thereof. A guy doesn't have to be "crazy-mad in love with her at first sight" to ask a girl for her number or on a date. Flirting with a guy and not getting asked out is no more of a game than asking a girl out and getting turned down.

 

As I've said, if a woman enjoys the role of pursuer, more power to her. Maybe if enough start to enjoy it, after awhile, it won't be the societal norm that men do the asking. Then a woman will be able to ask out a guy without such a high chance that it'll be one-sided. Until then, it is how it is, and if a woman doesn't like being in the pursuer role during the relationship, then she shouldn't be the one to do the asking or even initiate the first kiss.

 

As for the man's side, yes I do suggest they assess the woman's behavior before asking the woman out -- but not in some OCD checklist way. They don't have to over-analyze them "to death", but a guy minimizes his chances of being rejected by knowing how to tell if a woman's attracted to him. Sure, he can just ask out every woman he's attracted to no matter whether she's seems interested in him so he feels like he's not playing a "game of taking meaningless gestures and over-analyzing them to death", but his self esteem could take a hit from all the rejection.

 

And if a guy doesn't like being the pursuer, and wants a woman who'll do the majority of the work or wants to do the woman's share of the work, he's free to only go out with women who ask him out.

 

What does she have to lose, self-esteem from getting rejected? No big deal.

First off, in spiderowl's situation, even before the recent development, if the genders were reversed, I wouldn't have recommended "male spiderowl" ( sorry spiderowl) ask out the "girl", because "she" wasn't consistently showing interest. Given spiderowl's most-recent encounter, I'd advise "male spiderowl" to do pretty much what spiderowl is doing and move on.

 

Second, in my experience, it's not the self-esteem damaging kind of rejection but the heart-breaking kind. I've never gotten an outright rejection. I've only gotten positive immediate responses. Then after a few months either a disappearing act or "I just don't see relationship potential". I am almost positive that if I had walked away when the guy didn't seem interested instead of pursuing "just to be sure", I'd have saved myself the heartache.

 

I'll give you the most recent example, which, spiderowl, is slightly similar to your situation. The last time I did that was with a friend of a friend I ran into maybe a dozen times over 3-4 years. Sometimes when I had a boyfriend. Sometimes when I was single. We'd chat online. We even made plans to go out a couple times but it seemed more of a friends thing than dates. I invited him to an event that I'd won tickets to for an idea he had in one of our chats.

 

He occasionally did things like sitting too close that made me think he might be interested, but I was never sure. He was kind of a shy, nerdy type, so I didn't know what his deal was. Then one day, when I hadn't seen him in at least 6 months, I just thought "I should give that guy a call" and asked him on date. We dated for about 3-4 months. In the whole time, he would almost never make any plans to do anything. It was always on me. I finally got fed up and told him I wasn't happy and I'd like him to plan a date for us. He said he would, and he would get back to me. I'd had enough and decided the ball was in his court. I didn't hear from him again for about 6 months!

 

That's just one example. It's not been an isolated incident in my experience.

 

By the way, this is only half the work:

As the guy I have to plan dates to excite her by trying to pull information from her and schedule them and sometimes reschedule and pay for them, put in all the effort to convince her to give me a try, take the chance, deal with potential embarrassment. All the work you speak of.

The other half is done by the woman, but you apparently don't recognize it as work. Most of the emotional connecting is taken on by the woman. When a woman takes up the half of the work you describe, the man is rarely going to pick up the emotional half, leaving the woman doing ALL the work.

 

And generally, after the first couple of dates, the woman picks up some of the date arranging too.

[ChatroomHero]

I didn't want to reply, but you keep saying silly stuff. And spiderowl seems not to mind the convo.

 

You're just being absurd now. And you keep misrepresenting my point.

 

I am not misrepresenting any point. You keep trying to tell spider owl how guys think and work and I don't believe you are a guy so your general sweeping statements you keep making are from a woman's point of view.

 

You want to think for some reason that a woman asking a guy out is not good because it didn't work for you. To be blunt and honest, it works most of the time if the woman is attractive enough.

[ChatroomHero]

 

By the way, this is only half the work:

The other half is done by the woman, but you apparently don't recognize it as work. Most of the emotional connecting is taken on by the woman. When a woman takes up the half of the work you describe, the man is rarely going to pick up the emotional half, leaving the woman doing ALL the work.

 

By the way, this is probably the most absurd statement I have ever seen on LS. Ever.

[The Way I Am]

I am not misrepresenting any point.

 

Saying you're not misrepresenting a point doesn't make it any less so.

 

You keep trying to tell spider owl how guys think and work and I don't believe you are a guy so your general sweeping statements you keep making are from a woman's point of view.

I've never tried to say I know how guys think. I may hypothesize about why guys do the things they do. I know how guys respond from a woman's point of view, yes. That's not the same as claiming to know how they think.

 

To be blunt and honest, it works most of the time if the woman is attractive enough.

Yep, it's because I'm ugly. Sorry to burst your bubble, but no.

 

So now you've gone from twisting words to insults. It's fair to conclude at this point that you don't have a valid point.

 

By the way, this is probably the most absurd statement I have ever seen on LS. Ever.

 

And that response says a lot about your take on women and how much value you place on the traditionally feminine role in a relationship.

Edited September 14, 2012 by The Way I Am

[The Way I Am]

But it is usually like that anyway. Except it's the man doing most of the work, making the plans and initiating contact in the relationship.

 

Maybe the first 2-3 dates. But after that usually girls will either bail or start taking some of that on. From the beginning, a girl will take the lead on being openly affectionate.

 

Am I generalizing? Yes. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. My advice is for the average woman like myself and spiderowl, who expressed a dislike of pursuing men. Why should we do something we don't like? For what, the off chance we might miss out on the rare guy who's only interested in women who pursue him? No, thanks. I prefer the feminine role in the relationship. I'd rather have a guy who likes a little pursuit. (Not to be confused with one who only wants what he can't have.)

 

I never had a truly enjoyable relationship by pursing men. Now I have one. And judging by what other women said earlier in the thread, they had similar experiences. You disagree all you want, but I'm never going to start recommending people do what didn't work for me.

[The Way I Am]

Explain how that is work. Nevermind 50% of all the work.

Start dating a girl who's as emotionally open as the average guy and you might find out.

 

When people say that it takes work to make a relationship last, do you think that they're talking about making plans to go places and initiating texts or phone calls? Nope. What they're talking about is the emotional work.

 

Without someone taking the lead on building the emotional connection, driving the in-depth conversation at the beginning, the relationship would stay at surface-level. That's a more feminine trait, thus women usually take the lead on that.

 

If you don't realize the amount of effort it can take or value that kind of contribution enough to consider it 50%. Then it's at least 20% or 10% or 5%, which means making plans and calls still isn't all the work.

[spiderowl]

What does she have to lose, self-esteem from getting rejected? No big deal.

 

It's a good suggestion, ChatroomHero, but I don't feel it is for a woman. I really believe guys don't respect women who do this. If the guy's motivated he will do something. If he's not making an effort, he's not interested. I'm sure all guys would like women to throw themselves at them, but they'd probably play with them and then toss them aside. Just my feeling about the whole thing.

[spiderowl]

Don't put any effort into the guy. Be friendly with him if he comes to chat, but don't seek him out or read into anything you think might be chemistry. If you're capable of keeping up casual flirting without getting your hopes up, then keep flirting.

 

He may come around at some point, and my dog might stop tearing up pillows when I leave her alone. I'm not leaving my dog alone with a pillow anytime soon. And I recommend you try to do your best to clamp on your attraction to the guy as best you're able.

 

Don't be tempted by a hot and cold routine. You gave him his chance. Now if he actually does have an interest, he'll need to make it painfully obvious before you should take any flirting from him seriously.

 

Thanks, this is what I will do. I've had enough approaches by guys in my lifetime to know the difference. I thought he might be a bit different in that he's not very talkative with anyone in public, but I've made an effort to chat to him a few times now and he's still being clueless. That must mean lack of interest. I'd need proof now that he was interested and I'm not going to make any more effort.

[spiderowl]

Well, he came up to me (smiling) and commented on the good work I'd done at the last gathering. I didn't even know he'd noticed. Then we were interrupted by a friend and he wandered off. Can't figure him out at all!