LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Hello everyone, I am new to LS - will jump in and summarize my story in hopes of your advice/comments/questions/reflection. I have been the OW since the beginning of the year. We met at work; he is 17 years older than me. I got to know, appreciate and respect him for 3 years before anything happened. When my job changed within the organization and I no longer worked in his department, he slowly showed his interest in me. At first, I was not sure if he was interested or just friendly, as we had always gotten along and there was no ambiguity (or so I thought). Needless to say, what started out as a good professional relationship/friendship turned into an A. As stupid as it may sound, I did not know his marital status, as we never once discussed our romantic lives until after the A was officially underway. I had incorrectly assumed he was separated or divorced, since he was the one who initiated our R. I am madly in the love with this MM. At first when he told me "I am married", I felt that I had the option of either walking away or adopting a carpe diem attitude about it, since I would never ask him or expect him to leave his wife and he made it clear that he could not do that to his family. His wife discovered our A a few months later (not exactly sure how). This was devastating for all three of us, especially for her. Bizarrely enough, her discovery created a change in his attitude and he began to seriously consider leaving her and building a life with me. That was late April. Since then it has been a roller coaster ride for all of us. She is understandably a wreck and wants him to commit to working on their relationship (and stop seeing me, obviously); he is not sure what he wants to do, other than wait until his daughter goes to university in September (no more kids at home) and see what it is like to be just the two of them at home and see how he feels (they have been married for 25 years). He has asked me to wait for him over the next few months as he would like to have clarity by the end of the year. He continues to make plans for us to see each other here and there. My question essentially is this: Will be be able to find clarity if we continue to see each other during this period of no-kids-at-home-let's-focus-on-our-marriage? Does this approach sound viable or is it just setting us up for more heartache and indecision? BTW I have never asked him to do anything, like leave his wife etc, but indirectly I suppose I have, since he knows how deep my feelings run for him. In the end, I want what is "right" for all three of us, whether that means us being together, or not. I am all ears, having finished my rambling now. Feel free to ask questions. Thank you in advance.
whichwayisup Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 My question essentially is this: Will be be able to find clarity if we continue to see each other during this period of no-kids-at-home-let's-focus-on-our-marriage? Does this approach sound viable or is it just setting us up for more heartache and indecision? BTW I have never asked him to do anything, like leave his wife etc, but indirectly I suppose I have, since he knows how deep my feelings run for him. In the end, I want what is "right" for all three of us, whether that means us being together, or not. I am all ears, having finished my rambling now. Feel free to ask questions. Thank you in advance. No, he won't find any clarity or reconnect with his wife unless you two are in total NC mode. You can't date, see or talk to him. Because of their long history, their daughter, their 25 years of marriage, they owe it to one another to try to salvage things and make it a go of it. Go on with your life as best as you can. Set a time limit on this, a deadline and if that time comes and goes and he is still living at home, still married, then end it for good. Again, there's no way (and no point) their marriage is going to work if you are still in his life, waiting in the wings.
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Again, there's no way (and no point) their marriage is going to work if you are still in his life, waiting in the wings. I completely agree with this statement. It makes me wonder if he is holding on to me because he is afraid of going through this alone, or if he is subcnsciously wanting to sabotage their attempt. He is afraid of ending up old, and alone. He is afraid that as I am younger than him, I will leave him more easily than his loyal pillar of a wife. I am afraid that if I tell him we should not speak during this phase of "seeing with his wife", that it will reinforce this insecurity he has about me. Does that make any sense?
Summer Breeze Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I completely agree with this statement. It makes me wonder if he is holding on to me because he is afraid of going through this alone, or if he is subcnsciously wanting to sabotage their attempt. He is afraid of ending up old, and alone. He is afraid that as I am younger than him, I will leave him more easily than his loyal pillar of a wife. I am afraid that if I tell him we should not speak during this phase of "seeing with his wife", that it will reinforce this insecurity he has about me. Does that make any sense? It does make sense and it may well happen. But if you keep seeing him and he isn't able to focus on trying to see what's left of the M he may never have the clarity to truly leave that behind. You're in a tough place and right now you need to look after yourself. I'm not a believer in 100% NC in all cases. If he's insecure about you and that insecurity leads him to not leaving the M then he's no better off and neither are you or his W. I'd agree to an email a month where you can send him something letting him know you still care, your life is moving on, you hope he's getting closer to his decision. That type of thing. He can write back to you if you'd like. The downside to that is he may tell you he's staying home and working it out. You really can't win but I'm the type who would rather know than wonder. I'd keep minimal and agreed upon contact so you're not left wondering and then at the end of the deadline you're sitting there expecting something that he's known for weeks and weeks won't happen. I hope that makes sense to you. Good luck and keep in mind there is no solution that is better for everyone. People have already been hurt and it's not over yet. Either you or his W will end up with an unbelievable hole in your heart. I would personally still risk it though.
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 The downside to that is he may tell you he's staying home and working it out. Many thanks Summer Breeze for your precious, caring insight. What you say rings true. I think it's probably worth getting over my fear of ruining my chances of being with him and rather encouraging him to do things one at a time. I keep telling myself that I only want to be with him if he is courageous enough to make that decision on his own anyway. Who wants to feel like the OW that stole him away from a loving wife? But then faced with the possibility of losing him forever...well, it makes me weak. Sigh.
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Of course it did. This is most likely because HIS WIFE is having serious thoughts of divorcing him. Not the other way around. More likely it's HIM who is the "wreck" and wants to her to commit to reconciling because she is seriously contemplating divorce once the kid leaves for college in September. TRANSLATION: Let me throw her a bone "here and there" because I need to see what my wife decides. In other words, you are the back up plan. I actually prefer your rendition of the situation (not so much the bone throwing part) as it places much more power in the BW's hands and gives her more of a place in the driver seat. Unfortunately, this is not the case. She is not considering leaving him, for several reasons, money and stability playing a large role here. He actually wishes she would consider leaving him, as it would make it easier for him in some ways.
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Alice, I can see why you qualify it as cate eating, whether he actually sees it that way or not. I think it is a sign that he is scared, lost and unsure how to deal with the mess he has created in his life. And I am not sure that holding his hand while he wades through the mess would be beneficial for anyone.
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Have you spoken directly with his wife to confirm that she's not contemplating divorce? Why would I do such an intrusive thing? (Yes JadeEyes, I can hear you, I already have been intrusive by being with him) How would that improve the situation? She wants nothing to do with me. I think they need to work it out, divorce or no divorce, without me entering further into their relationship by contacting her.
2sure Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Your relationship with him began with him leaving out the very important fact that he is married. Regardless of what you assumed, thought, didn't know or wanted to believe....he very intentionally left that out. Did he leave that out for you? Nope. For him. He wanted what he wanted and didn't want the truth to interfere with that. I know that sounds harsh, and that you have thought about this and heard his reasons and excuses...but it's the bottom line, it's the truth, nothing confusing about it. He is having trouble deciding what to do, who to choose, because he doesn't have to. She isn't leaving and you're waiting. If he hasn't been able to decide because he has you both...continuing to have you both will leave him unable to decide. How do you know, for absolute certainty , that his wife knows he is continuing to see you? Its uncommon for a BS to allow that and quite frankly is usually just another lie. 1
todreaminblue Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Hello everyone, I am new to LS - will jump in and summarize my story in hopes of your advice/comments/questions/reflection. I have been the OW since the beginning of the year. We met at work; he is 17 years older than me. I got to know, appreciate and respect him for 3 years before anything happened. When my job changed within the organization and I no longer worked in his department, he slowly showed his interest in me. At first, I was not sure if he was interested or just friendly, as we had always gotten along and there was no ambiguity (or so I thought). Needless to say, what started out as a good professional relationship/friendship turned into an A. As stupid as it may sound, I did not know his marital status, as we never once discussed our romantic lives until after the A was officially underway. I had incorrectly assumed he was separated or divorced, since he was the one who initiated our R. I am madly in the love with this MM. At first when he told me "I am married", I felt that I had the option of either walking away or adopting a carpe diem attitude about it, since I would never ask him or expect him to leave his wife and he made it clear that he could not do that to his family. His wife discovered our A a few months later (not exactly sure how). This was devastating for all three of us, especially for her. Bizarrely enough, her discovery created a change in his attitude and he began to seriously consider leaving her and building a life with me. That was late April. Since then it has been a roller coaster ride for all of us. She is understandably a wreck and wants him to commit to working on their relationship (and stop seeing me, obviously); he is not sure what he wants to do, other than wait until his daughter goes to university in September (no more kids at home) and see what it is like to be just the two of them at home and see how he feels (they have been married for 25 years). He has asked me to wait for him over the next few months as he would like to have clarity by the end of the year. He continues to make plans for us to see each other here and there. My question essentially is this: Will be be able to find clarity if we continue to see each other during this period of no-kids-at-home-let's-focus-on-our-marriage? Does this approach sound viable or is it just setting us up for more heartache and indecision? BTW I have never asked him to do anything, like leave his wife etc, but indirectly I suppose I have, since he knows how deep my feelings run for him. In the end, I want what is "right" for all three of us, whether that means us being together, or not. I am all ears, having finished my rambling now. Feel free to ask questions. Thank you in advance. There will never be clarity in a three way situation.I cant answer this for you.I would have been spitting chips at you if you had posted this a while ago.Someone is going to get hurt and that is where clarity disappears into a puddle of mud......I feel for you I understand that you love him and every body deserves that.You are not happy because you are posting on here you dotn know what to do so you are asking for advice.My suggestion and my opinion with no bias....which i am actually glad i dont have anymore. My advice Is that you shouldnt wait as a threesome.because that is what it is. You should break contact till that relationship is over, not saying this to be mean. But to get that clarity you want.You wont have any clarity, until he is free from his wife.However long that takes fo rhim to sort himself out(this is unfair) if you decide to wait for him.Are you ever going to have clarity that he wont do it to you? when you end up with him how do you have clarity in trust.Is he trustworthy in the fidelity department.? I think you know the answer and it would be clear as crystal.How can you trust him? Trust is huge in a relationship absence of trust is the heart breaker. I hope you find happiness and you deserve to be happy now with soemone who loves you and no other.....good luck hugs from me to you.....deb
canuckprincess Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I completely agree with this statement. It makes me wonder if he is holding on to me because he is afraid of going through this alone, or if he is subcnsciously wanting to sabotage their attempt. He is afraid of ending up old, and alone. He is afraid that as I am younger than him, I will leave him more easily than his loyal pillar of a wife. I am afraid that if I tell him we should not speak during this phase of "seeing with his wife", that it will reinforce this insecurity he has about me. Does that make any sense? Yes it does make sense. I have a few questions for you, did he tell his wife everything when he got caught? Are you still seeing him on a regular basis? And if you are does his wife think its over? I wish I could private message you because we have so much in common, I just can't post too much on an open forum cause there are alot of bs's who blame the ow for all their short comings. Guess what I didn't break my vow to anyone's wife so blame someone else not me!
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) LC: As a middle age man I can tell you that it is very flattering to know you can still attract young women. Your history is mundane and quite ordinary with regards to a young woman falling in love with an older guy at work. MANY affairs (probably most) start just like yours. I suggest you google how affairs start. It is likely there was nothing drastically wrong with the marriage. I suspect this man simply wanted to experience something new out of boredom. Furthermore, this cheating man is not only cheating on his wife. He is also lying to you because that is what all cake eaters do. He lied at the onset by not telling you he was married. This only became evident once he had you hooked. This is a typical deception by a cake eater. Nine out of ten times it is the wife the one that initiates the divorce. This man will not leave his wife unless she decides to dump him to the curb. That is quite typical in this cases. Occasionally there is something called an exit affair when the married spouse was leaving the marriage and used the affair to complete the transaction. However, this is true in only a minority of cases. But, it gets worse: Sometimes after the get the divorce they also end the affair and end up with a 3rd party. I hate to say this to you, but your romance is nothing special. The story is always te same and reflects our biology as humans. Our behaviors are predictable. Are you married? Were you ever married? Do you have children? Pierre, no worries, I know everything you say and don't for a minute believe that our story is unique. It is special to me, because it involves my life, and his. The whole thing started because he hasn't been having sex with his wife for five years, and he has never been particularly happy about their sex life. I think at some point he decided to gratify himself elsewhere which is where I come into the story. What he did not foresee was the feeling he would then develop for me. I think he thought he could just have an unemotional fling like everyone else. It is not because he is brilliant and successful that he has developed great emotional awareness over the years. He ended up caught in a situation that he thought he could compartmentalize, then found that it was harder than he thought. He wasn't unhappy in his marriage, he just wasn't overly happy. Typical long-term marriage melancholy. I have no children, never married. Why do you ask? Edited September 8, 2012 by LaCurieuse typo 1
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Yes it does make sense. I have a few questions for you, did he tell his wife everything when he got caught? Are you still seeing him on a regular basis? And if you are does his wife think its over? I wish I could private message you because we have so much in common, I just can't post too much on an open forum cause there are alot of bs's who blame the ow for all their short comings. Guess what I didn't break my vow to anyone's wife so blame someone else not me! He denied it at first then came clean (all in the same conversation). I still see him when we can - he is very busy and we no longer live in the same city. I asked him last time I saw him what she now thinks our status is...she does not know he is still seeing me. I am not justifying it, but he does not want to tell her and cause her further grief. However, he does not want to stop seeing me. Something will eventually have to give. I don't know how to private message, do I need to activate something? Edited September 8, 2012 by LaCurieuse typo
canuckprincess Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 He denied it at first then came clean (all in the same conversation). I still see him when we can - he is very busy and we no longer live in the same city. I asked him last time I saw him what she now thinks our status is...she does not know he is still seeing me. I am not justifying it, but he does not want to tell her and cause her further grief. However, he does not want to stop seeing me. Something will eventually have to give. I don't know how to private message, do I need to activate something? I don't think this site has a PM function, is there anyway I could email you, seriously our stories are so much alike it's freaky lol. I would give you my email addy if you want but not sure who is viewing me.
canuckprincess Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Or if your online right now I can post my email addy and delete it a few minutes later .
ThatJustHappened Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 So he wants you to put your whole life on hold while he decides whether or not he's going to choose you? This man has balls! Don't wait for him..go live your life..if he leaves his wife and you decide you want to be with him, go for it. In the meantime, move on. Date some single guys. 1
whichwayisup Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I completely agree with this statement. It makes me wonder if he is holding on to me because he is afraid of going through this alone, or if he is subcnsciously wanting to sabotage their attempt. He is afraid of ending up old, and alone. He is afraid that as I am younger than him, I will leave him more easily than his loyal pillar of a wife. I am afraid that if I tell him we should not speak during this phase of "seeing with his wife", that it will reinforce this insecurity he has about me. Does that make any sense? If his marriage is to end, let it be because he truly isn't loving his wife anymore and he'd rather be alone than stay married to her. He *may* divorce and wants you to be there waiting for him so he won't be alone. The thing is, people DO need to be alone after a divorce, there's going to be many adjustments between their daughter, the house, financial ties, joint accounts, let alone their families, etc.. I'm sure he does love you but he's terrified of the unknown. Like he leaves, comes to you and then realizes he wants to go back home, misses all that he shared with his wife. Sure their passion for one another may not be the same as it once was when they first met and what you share with him is intense but what is it all based on? In an affair setting? I hope you get what i'm trying to say.. As I said before, go on with your life. Not saying to date others, but just move your priorities around. Focus on you, your family, friends, work and keep busy.
scatterd Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 This man is flattered of a younger woman wanting him. He will tell you what you want to hear. If he wanted to leave he would be gone they always use the children as an excuse for not leaving. He has invested 25 years into his wife so she has to have something he wants. He is simply cake eating and knows that he has a lot to loose. I doubt he wants to start all over again that is why he wants more time. After you give him the time he will find another excuse for more time. If his wife finds out she will most likely kick him to the curb. Honestly do you think after your with someone 25 years it is going to be big fire works in the bed room. He lied to you in the beginning so why would he not lie about other things? You should let him see if he can have a relationship with her with out you in the picture. You are setting yourself and her up for allot of disappointment and heart ache. Read the post around here it is not pretty. You have him once in a while so how do you know what he is like full time. After the newness wears off you would probably loose interest. Remember that he is at his best with you and when he looses everything things will be different. I hope you do not get hurt but this is so familiar to many of us here this is why you hear this. Actions speak louder then words and so far you have heard many words. I wish you the best. Good luck
canuckprincess Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 You think he doesn't want to tell her in order to spare her further grief? :laugh: He doesn't tell her he's still seeing you because she'd kick his azz to the curb in a heartbeat! And he doesn't stop seeing you because he doesn't want to lose his cake. That's why he's going to be tossing you some crumbs "here and there" to make sure you don't go anywhere. I think if his wife found out again it wouldn't make a difference. Give her some credit she already knows. I just think it sucks when one is still cheating and the bs is trying to save a marriage that may not my saved. It's just sad! 1
canuckprincess Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Weird now I can see... There IS a PM feature but I think you have to be here for a certain length of time and have I *think* ever 50 or 100 posts. Please don't publicly post your email address. I actually had a stalker at one point. Even if you plan on deleting it in seconds letting someone see it who has non-friendly purposes could be very dangerous. Your right thanks for the heads up. 1
oldshirt Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 That insight is good. But, go further and remove the rose colored glasses. The odds are against you and if you are not careful this man may string you along for years to come. :D:D:D That line is right out of the cheating's married men handbook. That is what they all said. I have even used the line myself and it works for the unsuspecting newbie woman that is being groomed the be the OW.:o Lets assuming the line is true. The reality is: He does not turn his wife on! A good cheater is very good about living in compartments and about suppressing any feelings of guilt. He stringing you while the storm dies at home. IN a year or so the wife will be more comfortable assuming the affair is over and this guy will be banging at your door (no pun intended). Everything is quite typical. You are probably in your early 30s and he around 50. Over the years you have tried dating single men and met some frustration and now comes a married man that is much more charming and attentive. Read everything Pierre has been telling you. Then go back through and read it again. Then read it again and again and again untill it finally clicks and gets through to you and you actually understand. This guy is playing you and he is trying to keep you hooked and sitting on the shelf waiting for him for the times he needs his tanked drained. You are his sperm recepticle for when his tank gets uncomfortably full. I would not "wait" for anyone. If my wife who is the mother of my young children were to come home and tell me she wasn't sure she wanted me and not sure if she wanted to remain married and not sure if she loved and not sure where things were going to end up between us but she asked me to "wait" untill she got her $hit together, I would not "wait." I would get a lawyer and start the paper work and start protecting my assets and start opening accounts in my name only. I would start working on doing everything I could to protect my relationship and my legal access to my kids. I would probably also start paying a little more attention to what eligible single ladies were out there in my league. All those things take time so if my wife finally figured out that she wanted to stay and wanted to be a real family after all she had better get it done before the divorce is final. If that is my attitude towards people asking people to "wait," what do you think I should advise some woman who is being played like a fiddle so some married guy can keep his side-dish waiting on the shelf for him for whenever he needs some extra poontang????????? 3
eleanorrigby Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Thats hot. My question essentially is this: Will be be able to find clarity if we continue to see each other during this period of no-kids-at-home-let's-focus-on-our-marriage? Does this approach sound viable or is it just setting us up for more heartache and indecision? BTW I have never asked him to do anything, like leave his wife etc, but indirectly I suppose I have, since he knows how deep my feelings run for him. In the end, I want what is "right" for all three of us, whether that means us being together, or not. Nope, he won't be able to find clarity, not one bit. It will take at least of month of complete NC for him to just get over the "cocaine" like feeling. Any contact with you will set him back to square one and poison any reconciliation effort with his wife. Is 100% NC possible in your situation? Are you willing to do it, even if he tries to break it? Are you willing to take things further underground if you break no contact and resume the affair? 1
Adamgem Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 I am finding this thread very interesting. I was aksed to wait until his ex got through a legal difficulty. I did. To my horror after this time (May) he started having MORE contact with her not less! So since then I have lost a lot of hope. I have started to realise that I am wasting my time. He has slowly told her more and more but she refuses to let him go... (she told me this herself - she will NEVER give up)! Somebody said that the men do not leave and that they wait until they get kicked out..... well that is not going to happen. Even though we live together and spend all our time together and our relationship is out in the open - the situation with his ex will never go away. He tells me it is because of the kids.... then there is the properties. She will never allow the kids to be around another woman nor will she let him have his properties back if he 'leaves' completely. I now know I have wasted the last four months with him. I have no intention of allowing him to waste anymore of my time.... (I hope I stay strong). I really feel for you and understand your situation but I think you are wasting your time too.... I think the big problem is working together. I am trying to find a new job and somewhere new to live so that I can move on soon.... You seem like a very kind and smart person but I know how love can blind us.... I hope you get something positive out of this... take care. 1
Author LaCurieuse Posted September 9, 2012 Author Posted September 9, 2012 I agree that none of us will find clarity if the situation stays as it is today. I intend to pull away for a while, and let them work through things. Que sera sera. I appreciate the comments that have been made here. I do find it a shame that some people feel the need to force feed you their views. I suppose it's not really suprising, in a way, given that the subject of an affair touches upon deep-rooted values, emotions and oftentimes pain for those who have lived through one. 1
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