2sunny Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 A H that literally DIDN'T want to go WOULD SI ply say that to his friends " no, I don't want to go"! But that hasn't been his answer - and that's PART of why he still is asked to go. In the bigger picture though, HAVING to say no (because my wife won't let me go) gives her husband a good reason to get mad at HER. Either he wants to go or he doesn't. IF he intends to go - he WILL find ways to go without HER knowing he went. Many men go on their lunch hour or office hours. The fact that he's just not stating exactly what HE wants or INTENDS to do really harms the dynamics of their M and relationship. It casts such a negative shadow on anything else that MIGHT be good or positive about the M. OP - how is your sex life? Would you describe it (and would your H describe it as exciting, moderate or inadequate)? Other than this - does your H respond the same way to other conflicts you two have?
TaraMaiden Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 This suggests you perhaps unconsciously select the sorts of men you can dominate. Emotionally ineffectual, beta males. My husband is a lawyer. You think lawyers are beta males? I don't think so.... The way you talk about your husband is sad because it indicates you don't respect him for what you should perceive as being simply an interesting aspect of his personality, something that (according to you) "all men" possess. I respect him hugely. There's just this predictable part of him that is the same in every male I've encountered. And the fact that it's predictable is irritating, not the fact that you all have it. That's a fact of life. Also how illuminative that there was apparently no predicate behavior by someone else (you?) that caused your husband to stomp and storm out of the room. Oh anything can set it off, not just me. You were probably playing little miss passive-aggressive-indirect--just like Freckas, probably. Oh here we go with the counter-attack and 'name-calling'. That too is typical 9-year old behaviour. "Well I don't like you either, so there." See? You all have it!
Sauron Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 You do not represent most men. It would be an insult, in my opinion, to all the decent men out there to think that they all think like you. I am not sure why you want to personally attack me, if you don't like my lifestyle fine, but try and at least have a civil tone unless your representing most decent womenhere? Please describe a decent man, I an very curious? I have been in strip clubs with plenty of decent men, especially the religous ones. And something tells me they probably had someone like like you at home. The OP should let him go, she is being a bit insecure IMHO. Strip clubs after all are money holes, lap dances are nothing and no touch the girls.
TaraMaiden Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Gosh, how you Americans like to analyse and compartmentalise everything. Sometimes men act like they kids they are, and women can be bitches. And far worse than men, a lot of the time. I grant you that. We have a knack. Men use childishness, we use cunning. All this "passive-aggressive/sociopathic/narcissistic/Bi-polar/Mentally Abusive "On-line diagnoses" are really over-doing it. Sometimes, a person is just being a schytt because they're just being a schytt.
TaraMaiden Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 It's been nice chatting with you, but right now, I can't be arsed....
Sauron Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 I'm sure it's not personal at all. But you are perceived as a man expressing a "male point of view." However, as we have seen in this thread, many women are raised and trained to think in an ingrained gender biased manner, without the capacity to see themselves as being gender biased. Many women are raised to engage in manipulative, indirect, seemingly "non-confrontational" relationship dynamics with men, generally. Direct confrontation, logical argument (even if forceful), direct "problem solving" efforts is not something that very many women are comfortable with. Many men--especially those who are raised in families with weak, submissive, or non-existent father figures--behave the same way, so the intent is not to over generalize that it's only women and never males who behave in this way. Hey Abe, interesting, you seem very erudite. You should start a seperate thread to discuss this topic in more detail.
TaraMaiden Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 No, you're the funny one.... Life goes on, and people are born, they age, get engaged, married, laid, separated, divorced and they die. Frankly, everything that goes on between birth and death, is just drama we create.
TaraMaiden Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 No, he died two years ago. Yes, he was. But even by his admission, he could be an absolute pain in the behind. Three days before my first marriage: "Your mother says she married a man who thinks he's a boy. I have to admit, she's absolutely right. It's something men are cursed with, *my name*, and the sooner you learn that, the better for you." I think really, I'm quite ready to draw this O/T discussion to a close. PM me, by all means, if you feel the need to continue. I'm stopping here. ETA: Your ETA's are an afterthought of dismissive insults. Which is in and of itself, remarkably childish. IRMC.
angie2443 Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Personally, it's a strip club, who cares? . She cares. In a healthy relationships comprimises are made when one person's behaviors, hobbies, or habits are hurting the other. If he chooses strip clubs over OP's feelings, then there is no reason for him to stay with her. He needs to find a woman like you, who doesn't mind his strip club habit. Ofcourse, he might do other things that hurt you and then you would need to decide if he is the type of person that would put your feelings over whatever activity he likes that hurts you.
angie2443 Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Freckas, the problems in your marriage go way beyond strip clubs. Your husband, from what I can tell, has no respect for you, doesn't care for your feelings, is manipulative and just plain mean. You can't control his behavior. You can express your feelings to him all you want, but if he doesn't respect them and won't comprimise with you on things, then what's the point. I'm not sure why you are with him. If I may ask, how old are you and do you have kids with him? Is there some social pressure where you are at to stay with him? One more thing, some people on here, IMO, are acting like bullies. If you look at their other posts on LS, it will give you a better idea of their posting style. I guess I'm trying to say, I think you're in a bad situation already. You don't need people on here to make you feel worse. 1
angie2443 Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Instead she should have told HIM... "I am not ok with you going to strip clubs. It is a non-negotiable item for me, it makes me feel not good about myself and I think you should respect that. If going to a strip club is more important to you than that, then I'm not sure I'm the girl for you." But she didn't do that. She told US that. . I strongly feel that this would have made no differance. His personality, how it comes through to me in these posts anyways, is the type that would simply go behind her back to do this, or treat her so bad that she would break down. I have the feeling that he has her walking on egg shells. Yes, it's easy to say she should leave him, or they shouldn't be together, but untill it is known why she is staying with him, I don't think that will do much good.
Sauron Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 In a way even if such a thread were started, it would be impossible to have a "fair" discussion about it on an internet forum, precisely because an internet forum is a particularly un-ideal place to be able to use the kind of manipulative, emotional, non-verbal button-pressing tactics that Tara Maiden's self-described "cunning & bitchy stereotyped female" specialize in. It would just end up as a bunch of like-minded men and a few emotionally healthy, logic-prone females all in agreement, with possibly a large number of enraged, frustrated, emotional females throwing false generalizations, bating tactics, and then simply leaving the discussion entirely when logically refuted, flipping the rhetorical bird as they left. You know--just like Tara just did with her last post. I know but it would be interesting.
2sunny Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 I am not sure why you want to personally attack me, if you don't like my lifestyle fine, but try and at least have a civil tone unless your representing most decent womenhere? Please describe a decent man, I an very curious? I have been in strip clubs with plenty of decent men, especially the religous ones. And something tells me they probably had someone like like you at home. The OP should let him go, she is being a bit insecure IMHO. Strip clubs after all are money holes, lap dances are nothing and no touch the girls. Strip clubs make money - yep. But her H was there AFTER hours... Usually an indication that he's setting himself up to meet on of their strippers AFTER hours. I don't view 'your life choices' to be what values or moral compass that I admire in the men I deem with integrity. I much prefer an honest man. Your W doesn't have YOUR TRUTH...there's no honor in that. IF this OP's H would be HONEST too - he wouldn't be acting out with such immaturity and resentment. He wants to go - she won't allow it.
KungFuJoe Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Um. YOUR married male, who apparently can't stand up for himself or you, does this...not married men in general. I would never ever do what you described. Never. 1
2sunny Posted September 9, 2012 Posted September 9, 2012 Um. YOUR married male, who apparently can't stand up for himself or you, does this...not married men in general. I would never ever do what you described. Never. I agree - I know many men that don't go! 1
TaraMaiden Posted September 10, 2012 Posted September 10, 2012 My H. Used to go as part of work lads' nights out, every once in a blue moon. he hated it, sat unobtrusively at the back, refuted the advances of the ladies with a polite palm in their direction and a shake of his head - and he was never pestered - and left as soon as was decently possible. he always told "the lads" that as a manager he had to keep his head and be sensible, and maintain a responsible position, even out of work - but in fact, just loathed the whole concept. He saw it as puerile, juvenile, exploitative and degrading. In both directions.... 1
strongnrelaxed Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 How long have you been married? Married males engage in this behavior because it was/is how they were socialized and it has been validated enough as an adult to become their default behavior pattern. Absent sufficient impetus to change, he'll die with the behavior pattern. Males are not socialized to go to strip clubs. You need to stop watching movies. Hollywood is not reality. Yes, some men go to strip clubs, but to say that is somehow socialized and hence inherent in men, is completely false.
strongnrelaxed Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Good advice here. I tend to side with men, but I am against strip clubs for married men. I spent 4 years in the Marines and you can guess how that was. Strip clubs everywhere. After a time you get it out of your system and it loses its novelty. Going out and meeting available women becomes much more interesting. I find strip clubs demeaning to men and women, as someone said above. My buddies offered to bring me to a strip club for my Bachelor party and I said No. Period. They didn't push and we had beers at a local place. TO the OP. Your husband sounds emotionally abusive based on your post. It does not look good. I am not a fan of counseling. It doesn't work in my experience. Good luck. Draw clear boundaries and let him know that from now on you are going to match his behaviors. If he yells, then so will you. If he goes out, so will you. Get strong, get in shape, take a class. Be the best YOU that you can be. That will help. My rant against strip clubs notwithstanding, they are not necessarily bad. When it is a habit, however, it is a problem. Good luck.
carhill Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Males are not socialized to go to strip clubs. You need to stop watching movies. Hollywood is not reality. Yes, some men go to strip clubs, but to say that is somehow socialized and hence inherent in men, is completely false. My apologies for the lack of clarity. This is the behavior I was addressing: "when there is a issue, you dismiss me, and then insult me and my sanity, when I defend myself you, mock me and tell me I am being crazy.."
ForeverHopeful1 Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Are you against him going at all, ever? I mean, I am not thrilled when my partner goes to a strip club or bachelor party where there are naked woman flailing their lady parts around and being all sexy. We have a rule "if you wont do it in front of me, dont do it behind my back." I do not mind my partner seeing other women maybe once a year, but I would not be around any longer if he decided to touch someone else. As for going to the strip club, if that is something that bothers you and is a deal breaker, then you need to let him know that. There are women who dont like masterbation, or their men watching porn and it is a serious offense. I guess everyone has different rules on different things and you need to come up with a fine line and stick to it, I guess. I do not want to be told what to do, what I can and cant do and do not want to have to ask if I am allowed to speak to someone, be around someone or go somewhere, so I do not request that of my partner. We are respectful of plans we have with one another, but we do not tell each other what we can and cannot do, or where we can or cannot go. I have learned that **** like that bites me in the ass. Lol. I remember my partner staying home because I didnt want him to go somewhere one night, I felt horrible for it, and then one night I really wanted to go out, the roles were reversed and I couldnt do what I wanted to do without starting WWIII for being a hypocrite... Lol. I know women dont go out and watch men dancing naked all the time, but I know my partner worries here and there when I go downtown dancing with my girlfriends... he wouldnt dare try to stop me though. Why would he though? He has nothing to worry about. I love him and I trust him too.
AlexDP Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 In Europe strip clubs are a thing for perverts.. I don't understand why they're so popular in the USA. Oh and this guy sounds like a total ******* who is out to mentally torture the OP.
mesmerized Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Freckas: You heard counseling, one said you should dump him and get a divorce, kind of extreme I would say. My reccomendation to you is next weekend, go to an ATM get a couple a hundred bucks, get a taxi or limo lined up tell your husband you have a mystery date, dress up as sexy as you can, maybe a little slutty and take him to the strip club yourself. Buy him shots and let him get a little wasted, YOU pick out a stripper or 2 and buy him a lap dance and while you watch you whisper something carnal in his ear about what you would like to do with him, while she is grinding on him, most likely turn you both on so much that if he's not to drunk by the time you get home, you will have great sex. Plus it's cheaper and less time consuming than counseling or divorce. I would imagine when he wakes up the next morning he will be in a completely different mood, and pretty much be in awe of you. Aka. Bend over backwards to please a disrespectful man. Take abuse and not complain. Holy ****, am I reading this crap right?
Recommended Posts