strongnrelaxed Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 What about romance makes sense? Actually a LOT makes sense. If you consider biological basics, evolution, and some simple things about human nature it all makes sense. That being said, WOMEN do not make sense! Ok, I am half joking. One poster above said that it it best to not give away the power by giving away too much too soon. (my words, not his) and this is the essence of this aspect of attraction. The one who "falls in love" first and admits it is signaling to the partner a certain vulnerability. This works ok for women but almost always disastrously for men. Bottom line. Yes - when a man admits he loves a woman first, he is sewing the seeds of the undoing of the relationship. The only thing that can trump this is if the woman is desperately in love with him already and hoping beyond hope that he feels the same. If he says it with enough authority and command, then he is ok. Everything else screams "love me please - I am a wounded puppy" That works in the short run, but...
Badsingularity Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 How is attraction different for men and women. I walk into a bar and see a woman I'm attracted to, you go into the bar and see a man you're attracted to. What's the difference? Is it that if your possee doesn't think he's good looking your attraction vaporizes? Attraction is very different for women. A mans body language, inner strength, and ability to be comfortable and charismatic in social situations is very attractive to most women.
strongnrelaxed Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 How is attraction different for men and women. It is different in about a thousand ways. Men look for certain things initially and work their way down a list. Young? Check. Sexy? Check. Healthy? Check. Approachable? Check. Likes me back? Check. Not too dumb? Check. After that is is pretty much on as long as he doesn't screw up. For women, there is a similar checklist, but it is MUCH easier to screw up. Men have to worry about what they say much more than women do. We have to be a lot smarter. I know popular culture depicts men as lovable idiot overweight oafs, but to be successful in dating it takes a lot more for a man than a woman. Women have looks and some basic social skills and they are good. Men need an entire list of crap and that doesn't even guarantee success.
Author SJC2008 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Actually a LOT makes sense. If you consider biological basics, evolution, and some simple things about human nature it all makes sense. That being said, WOMEN do not make sense! Ok, I am half joking. One poster above said that it it best to not give away the power by giving away too much too soon. (my words, not his) and this is the essence of this aspect of attraction. The one who "falls in love" first and admits it is signaling to the partner a certain vulnerability. This works ok for women but almost always disastrously for men. Bottom line. Yes - when a man admits he loves a woman first, he is sewing the seeds of the undoing of the relationship. The only thing that can trump this is if the woman is desperately in love with him already and hoping beyond hope that he feels the same. If he says it with enough authority and command, then he is ok. Everything else screams "love me please - I am a wounded puppy" That works in the short run, but... If I ever get that far I'm not going to live in fear that she'll freak out. I'll come out with it once I'm able too and let the chips fall where they may. Edited September 8, 2012 by SJC2008 Editing duuuhhhhh
RedRobin Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Red Robin, I agree with you and am not a follower either, but I have witnessed this with women on many occasions. And not just in high school. Unfortunately, not all women are as emotionally secure as you. I post based on my life experience. I've always been quiet. A people watcher. So I don't always give my own personal motivations for something, or what I would do. I report what I see others do. TBH, I don't think it is a man/woman thing. Alot of people don't seem to be able to think for themselves when it comes to choosing a partner... a career... a place to live... where to eat... what to wear. On the other hand, it is important to balance... because sometimes the opinions of others DOES have merit... and bucking the system to extremes is another sort of 'following'. I get that too. Thanks for your input.
RedRobin Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Attraction is very different for different people women. A mans person's body language, inner strength, and ability to be comfortable and charismatic in social situations is very attractive to most women healthy, well-balanced people Fixed it for you... ... although I get it that some men are attracted to 'weak and helpless'. I don't tend to circulate with those who find that attractive in either gender, TBH. Edited September 8, 2012 by RedRobin
Pyro Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Not that this forum represents the real world but it has been posted many times that women are put off if a man gets emotionally invested before they do? Guys is there truth to this? Women if you're dating a man and you realize that he's into you before you're into him are you dunzo? I'm not saying if a guys blowing up your phone every day but keeps light constant contact and you just get the feeling he's really into you? Not sure how anyone here can say how MOST women feel about anything. Depending on how soon after the dating begins and how it is said.
Quiet Storm Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 TBH, I don't think it is a man/woman thing. I agree, but I was focusing on women because of the title of the thread. I remember singing at the top of my lungs with my parents to a Rick Springfield (!) song, "Jesse's Girl" back in the early 80s. I was about 6. It was kind of along the lines of my post about women wanting what other women want. The dude in the song wanted his friend's girl.
Mrlonelyone Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Alot of people don't seem to be able to think for themselves when it comes to choosing a partner... a career... a place to live... where to eat... what to wear. ^this. It's the same reason that little green slips of paper have value. Other people think they are worth something so they are. It may fly in the face of most romantic ideals but at the bottom line many people see other people as a sort of social currency. When you say "I love you and want to be with you" too readily 90% of the time it just makes you less valuable. 1
carhill Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Another way of looking at it is that it makes one less valuable to those one in reality should be glad they are of less value to. 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 You can be emotional and expressive but you have to retain a balance. It's also important to at least gauge the other persons interest before pouring yourself out there because doing so may encroach on their boundaries with what they are comfortable with. When you step outside the box and make grand gestures you better have the experience to know what you're doing or realize it's a roll of the dice, otherwise you'll just come off odd and over-bearing. Do not direct your emotions directly at them, It makes them feel forced to reciprocate or respond. And you should leave some mystery to how you really feel instead of laying it all on the table, It's appropriate when getting to know somebody, to demonstrate self-control and that you value these emotions and don't give them out easily. I see a lot of people catch feelings for the other and the other person is still getting to know them and doesn't necessarily appreciate the grand gesture of infatuation because it feels too sudden and soon, it feels obsessive and clingy because It should be mutual and they haven't established and gauged that compatibility yet. Therefore one person is way ahead of the other and now the power and control, the decision to continue or not is in the hands of one person as the other is being completely transparent...to the point of a fault. The reaction you'll instigate in another person is a defensive posture of suspicion and they'll question your sanity as well as your standards, unless they are insecure and need that validation or they find themselves attracted and into you enough to overlook your stupidity. Otherwise some people will take your interest and use it to their advantage to manipulate you to getting what they want...sex, companionship, force you into the perfect or ideal person by breaking you down, string you along until something better comes along, free dates and entertainment. You should try to demonstrate a level of common sense, competence, emotional and mental stability, as well as intelligence. Not everyone is going to need a high intensity or demonstration of all of these, however you shouldn't be one dimensional and be obvious in your attempts to make strides and gestures to pushing intimacy, whether emotional or physical...you need to let that happen on it's own by reacting to what is present between the two of you. Too many people care only about how they feel and settle for simple responses to gauge the other persons interest instead of combining the words and actions. Anything forceful or intentional will scare women away...I see a lot of people try and force connections, compatibility, and search for emotional connections and commonality to build intimacy instead of just being yourself and feeling out what is there. Some people are desperate for a relationship and this comes off obvious. Every person is not the same, and how they connect with you may vary...I see men try to develop tactics that are consistent and use repetitive methods like they do with sex that give them positive feedback...many think one size fits all but that's not the case. Although even when the feedback is negative they don't change it up, which shows a lack of self-awareness. You have to be able to reflect and realize the faults in your acts, or ask for outside opinions for those who know you well. You really should be opening up your mind and receptive emotionally, not worrying so much about trying to connect with the person...just seeing how the conversation flows and reacting off what you feel is genuine chemistry and interest. If it isn't there you should have the confidence to walk away not feeling it's the end of the world, or If rejected not taking it to heart as not everyone is meant for everyone. However with that being said, If you represent strong attributes and qualities you will coincidentally attract lots of interest, regardless of whether you're the best looking person, most intelligent, have the most prestigious resume and career, etc...emotions, chemistry and compatibility go a very long way as well as many other attributes that can be developed to assist you in the dating world. Most importantly If you are a man you owe me a beer after reading this. 3
kaylan Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) OP, in my experience, if the girl values your friendship and is attracted to you, it doesnt matter who likes who first. And it wont matter who tells the other how they feel first.It is different in about a thousand ways. Men look for certain things initially and work their way down a list. Young? Check. Sexy? Check. Healthy? Check. Approachable? Check. Likes me back? Check. Not too dumb? Check. After that is is pretty much on as long as he doesn't screw up. For women, there is a similar checklist, but it is MUCH easier to screw up. Men have to worry about what they say much more than women do. We have to be a lot smarter. I know popular culture depicts men as lovable idiot overweight oafs, but to be successful in dating it takes a lot more for a man than a woman. Women have looks and some basic social skills and they are good. Men need an entire list of crap and that doesn't even guarantee success. This is sooooo false. When it comes to relationship men are just as picky as women. At least the guys I know. Then again, I hang out with men who know what they want and have options.For the readers... Not all women need to feel like they are beating out competition... and that the guy they are interested in has other 'options'... Nor do all women validate their own self-worth by latching onto a man she thinks is 'popular'... Some of us can make up our own minds about someone, thank you very much. We don't need the opinion of the masses to make it for us. To me, it is a huge turn off actually. I don't 'compete' for any man.. I think you missed the point. Id like to know a girl has options and chose me because I am special to her. If she didnt have options Id wonder if I was some last resort and if shed trade me up once she did have options. I think thats part of the point that was being made. Edited September 8, 2012 by kaylan
threebyfate Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 SJC, these are really difficult questions to answer since not all women are the same and neither are men. I can only respond based on my own experiences. With H., I knew he was very interested, right out the gate. I was also very interested and made no pretense of it. So he maintained that level of interest in a consistent way, without playing any games. In doing so, it gave me sufficient comfort to continue investing, knowing he wasn't going to pull away at key moments. He literally swept me off my feet with romance but not in such a way that exceeded my comfort zone by being overly effusive. So impossible to describe beyond his solid confidence and trustworthiness. He fit my concept of man and partner, like no one else has ever done. And yes, I'm crazy about my man so cover your eyes if you can't handle the gooshiness! 2
strongnrelaxed Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 If I ever get that far I'm not going to live in fear that she'll freak out. I'll come out with it once I'm able too and let the chips fall where they may. Fair enough. Proceed at your own risk. I used to feel the same way. I wish you the best of luck.
strongnrelaxed Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 OP, This is sooooo false. When it comes to relationship men are just as picky as women. At least the guys I know. Then again, I hang out with men who know what they want and have options. This is a good point. If the original question had been "are men as picky as women" then I would not disagree with you. Ok, so I got off point too. But despite your comment about my response being "sooooo false" you cannot deny the points I make continually on TLS. First - Men and women are very different in their basic drives when it comes to sex and dating. My list might be off - no one list works for everyone. I get that. It was meant to be illustrative. And second - Men are expected to be strong and stoic. Break this rule at your own risk. I have heard messages to the contrary my whole life. This gets fine young men in deep trouble all the time. In fact this is the cause of many problems. Men are simply not allowed to show vulnerability. As I always say - Ignore my point. Men, go to your woman tonight and cry on her shoulder. Honestly and fully. Cry like you would if you were alone. Do this any time you feel the honest need to do so. Get back to me one day and let me know how that works for you. This includes crying, being sick or being sad. The same holds true for admitting love first. It is a sign of emotional vulnerability. This is exciting to some women in the short run, but I believe it is ultimately a sign of weakness to most. Good for you if you have one of the seven women on the planet who are the exception. I prefer to work with the averages.
Author SJC2008 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 This is a good point. If the original question had been "are men as picky as women" then I would not disagree with you. Ok, so I got off point too. But despite your comment about my response being "sooooo false" you cannot deny the points I make continually on TLS. First - Men and women are very different in their basic drives when it comes to sex and dating. My list might be off - no one list works for everyone. I get that. It was meant to be illustrative. And second - Men are expected to be strong and stoic. Break this rule at your own risk. I have heard messages to the contrary my whole life. This gets fine young men in deep trouble all the time. In fact this is the cause of many problems. Men are simply not allowed to show vulnerability. As I always say - Ignore my point. Men, go to your woman tonight and cry on her shoulder. Honestly and fully. Cry like you would if you were alone. Do this any time you feel the honest need to do so. Get back to me one day and let me know how that works for you. This includes crying, being sick or being sad. The same holds true for admitting love first. It is a sign of emotional vulnerability. This is exciting to some women in the short run, but I believe it is ultimately a sign of weakness to most. Good for you if you have one of the seven women on the planet who are the exception. I prefer to work with the averages. I've heard this a lot that when a man shows vulnerability it turns a woman off. Men aren't emotionless rocks. I've cried 3 times in my adult life. Once when my sister was in the hospital, I was 18, twice when my father died, I was 20. I have pride, I wouldn't want to be caught dead crying in front of my girl if I had one. I would however want and need to know that I'm with a woman who would let you cry on her shoulder, even though I probably wouldn't. As far as telling you love a woman first does you in that's sounds stupid all due respect. As long as it's not too soon there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Mabye I'm not cut out for dating/relationships. I'm not going to be some emotionless rock so she can be some emotional wreck who needs constant validation and her ego stoked and the minute I'm vulnerable she's gone.
Author SJC2008 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Not to toot my own horn but I have a feeling that the girl I last dated pulled away because she could tell I'm a good man. She'd rather go out with an a hole and not get attatched instead of date a good man and fear losing him and getting hurt. I don't want to get hurt but I'm not afraid to.
redraven Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) After trawling through each of the posts in this thread, I've noticed that few men actualy admitted to, or offered examples of any time in their own lives that they ever actually told their dates of their feelings first, and then listed what happened therefrom. My anecdotal experience has been that, thus far, I've always come clean on the feelings front first;0 and in each LTR I've been in this has always worked to my advantage, seemingly excusing only the present one. I've found that expressing my level of attraction first has had the effect that women are disarmed, and comforted from the fact that they no longer feel insecure about our relationship. I've not seen a woman show anything but relief. That said, it is a dice roll regardless of who you are. The only move or way to play, is to play it, because one person has to come forward and be honest about their feelings, so why not let it be you? As at least then you are controlling when the shoe drops, because you are dropping it, and not waiting around for them to do so. Perhaps many women would feel your honesty to be a sign of courage, and self control rather than the opposite, after all, if you do not say what you are actually feeling, you are hiding. Even if they did not immediately have the same level of reciprocal "attachment" at the exact time of confession, they felt safe to let their guard down from then on out. You are choosing to expand the comfort boundary, and they can let their guard down and be more themselves when they know you're there for them. Women do not respect men who hide how they feel, they want the brave, cocky, bold guy who straight up says how it is on his end because that is strong, and actually confident. This move has always worked for me, perhaps with one recent exception, but I am still waiting around for the verdict here, so I'm not quite wrong yet. Then again, my experience is totally subjective, anecdotal, other guys will have their own stories to tell. Edited September 8, 2012 by redraven
redraven Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Not to toot my own horn but I have a feeling that the girl I last dated pulled away because she could tell I'm a good man. She'd rather go out with an a hole and not get attatched instead of date a good man and fear losing him and getting hurt. I don't want to get hurt but I'm not afraid to. Just posted and then saw this. My thought is, if you told her, and she dropped you, good. Next. If you want a LTR, then why waste time playing around with a girl that would drop you at the time when you felt like being honest? If/when that happens to me, I'll be relieved, because **** it, something better is out there, and I wouldn't have to be in a R with a girl who was just not that into me. Who the **** wants that? And why sit around hiding your feelings in the hope that someday my day will come and this person will realize what they have? If they can't figure it out and appreciate it fast, then why kick back helping them see the light by hiding how you feel?
Author SJC2008 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Just posted and then saw this. My thought is, if you told her, and she dropped you, good. Next. If you want a LTR, then why waste time playing around with a girl that would drop you at the time when you felt like being honest? If/when that happens to me, I'll be relieved, because **** it, something better is out there, and I wouldn't have to be in a R with a girl who was just not that into me. Who the **** wants that? And why sit around hiding your feelings in the hope that someday my day will come and this person will realize what they have? If they can't figure it out and appreciate it fast, then why kick back helping them see the light by hiding how you feel? To clarify I didn't say anything feelings related to her. I didn't have feelings for her. She came on really strong then pulled away quick. I just don't get it, I know it sounds like ego saving or whatever you wanna call it but I think she seen I'm a good man and got scared. We were both busy, and both new it, and wanted to meet someone who understood. She mssgd me, paid for our second date and was very complimentary of me. She pulled away, I called her out on it and we went back and forth for a bit (nicely). I told her she came on strong and did a 180 when I tried to flirt with her. She said she doesn't have time for a r and I told her we already talked about that. Then she says she's sober now and wasn't trying to lead me on. She had like 2 drinks on our 1st date and a couple more on our 2nd so I was like whatever. I didn't feel that bad I was interested but not sprung. The bottom line is WHATEVER the reason is I'm the one who's fkd.
bac Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Not that this forum represents the real world but it has been posted many times that women are put off if a man gets emotionally invested before they do? Guys is there truth to this? Women if you're dating a man and you realize that he's into you before you're into him are you dunzo? I'm not saying if a guys blowing up your phone every day but keeps light constant contact and you just get the feeling he's really into you? IMO If a man is dating, he should be emotionally invested unless you call FWBs situation as dating. But, you should figure out what your girl considers as normal and reasonable. Also, I do not know what you imply as 'emotional investment'. I hope you do not mean smth that would make her life very difficult and dramatic. Edited September 8, 2012 by bac
Anna84 Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 On the contrary.. the last guy I was completely crazy about, chased me from day 1 he met me, and did this for 4 months. In the beginning I never thought I'd start something with him, and wasn't particularly attracted by him either, but in the end he won. It's different for everyone and I doubt it has so much to do with whether you're male of female.
Joaquin Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) The only thing I'd say is that if your gonna get all pissy if she doesn't respond as you want, you best wait for her say stuff first. In general though words don't matter a thing. Actions matter. Edited September 8, 2012 by Joaquin
todreaminblue Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 What about romance makes sense? lol......i was going to write something really witty and insightful decided to laugh instead. Does that make any sense lol......no......thats good.......I dotn think romance is meant to make sense i think you are just meant to have i twarts and all......romance suuuuucks especially when you want it...;0) you have a great day now....... my ribs hurt.......deb
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