Betrayed&Stayed Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Waterwoman posted this on the 'Apology from the AP' thread. I read the article and thought it was thought provoking. What is described resembles how many affairs begin, including my wife's A. I didn't want to t/j, and felt this could be a good thread on it's own. Anatomy of an Affair - Accidental Affairs - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates I agree with the concepts outlined in the article, but I do not agree with the term "accidental". The author equates "unintentional" on the onset with "accidental": "It is an accident because neither one was looking for anything at all when it began and neither had any intention of even getting involved personally with each other." At some point it DID become intentional! When I was young and single and met my future wife I asked her out on a date. At the beginning of our relationship, I had no intention of marrying her. So by this logic we "accidentally" became married. Thoughts? I'll hang up and listen.
TaraMaiden Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Bollox is it accidental. The whole reason for an affair is that there is already some disquiet in the marriage. Communication - Respect - trust. Three absolutely vital and essential components which form the structural troika, the solid pillars which support the relationship. There is a lapse, or gap in the communication channel - it's either not happening productively, or it's not happening at all. The AP behaves towards their spouse in a disrespectful and dishonest way. if you're prepared to lie to someone, and be unfaithful to them, there is little or no respect - no thought or consideration - for how they would take this betrayal. The AP shatters the trust that exists between a husband and wife. They lie, they cover up, they deceive - and the Trust - possibly the most fragile, and irreparable of the three - is damaged irrevocably. "Accidental"...? I'm not convinced. Unintentional.....? in a pig's ear. The only time something remains unintentional is when the decision is firmly made to not do it. 3
GorillaTheater Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 "Dammit. I tripped and fell into a vagina AGAIN. :mad:" 17
Ninja'sHusband Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 The only way I'd accept "accidental" is from the OW or OM's POV, if they had been lied to about the WS being single. If they continue after finding out the truth...it's no longer an accident. 4
redtail Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I think that rationalizing that you fostered a relationship through to the point to where you found yourself in bed and having sex with that person by calling the circumstances "accidental" or "unitentional" is in the same vein as blaming the BS for the affair. An adult knows whats happening, all the way up to and including the point at where one starts to get undressed and jumps into bed. Those are all deliberate actions and it's naive to think otherwise. 8
NotCamelot Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I have to disagree with any stretch that calls it accidental. There is ALWAYS the opportunity to say "NO". Even if the betrayer tells the potential AP lies about being married, separated, etc.....the AP knows.....they know because of all the "slipping around" ...... nothing out in the open, no "real" dates...etc........the AP knows......the betrayer knows. Accidental.......NO WAY. And, BTW, Betrayed&Stayed, the marriage analogy doesn't work for me because when you were young and dataing there was always the possibility and usually the hope of finding someone to marry....so not accidental either. 2
Ninja'sHusband Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I have to disagree with any stretch that calls it accidental. There is ALWAYS the opportunity to say "NO". Even if the betrayer tells the potential AP lies about being married, separated, etc.....the AP knows.....they know because of all the "slipping around" ...... nothing out in the open, no "real" dates...etc........the AP knows......the betrayer knows. This to me is like blaming the BS for the affair because they weren't smart enough to figure it out. Same logic. 1
Silly_Girl Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I can subscribe to an affair being called a mistake, but not accidental. 1
waterwoman Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Not that I wish to defend the article as such but I guess the point is that the affair was not looked for, the WS was not looking for a potential partner and if you had asked them before the event they would have been horrified at the suggestion that they would do such a thing. It started as a close friendship that got closer than it should. It happened by degrees and yes, they made a decision time after time to do things that took them slightly further and further but there wasn't an obvious crunch point when they said' Yes, I am now choosing to have an affair'. Delusional, yes, dishonest, yes, deliberate, no. H's affair was never consummated. That was where he drew the line. He managed to fool himself in that way that he wasn't actually in an affair. I think if he had the affair, in his eyes, would have become deliberate. He is was of ourse quite wrong. And when he was forced to confess he saw the the whole sordid pathetic business in it's true light. An affair, nothing less. An utter betrayal. But it's start was accidental. 3
TaraMaiden Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I can subscribe to an affair being called a mistake, but not accidental. No. I can't even subscribe to it being called that. At the time. Afterwards, maybe - but even then, it was an avoidable one. (I think "After the event" is what you mean, though.....) 1
mercy Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 No 'un' about the intent. The choice is made. 3
Furious Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I think the thesis of the aricle is about boundaries and that people supposedly cross them unintentionally at first, and that this leads to chemical impulses in the brain that feeds the attraction, which eventually leads to an affair, and the "just happened", or it was an "accident", for those who find themselves ending up in an affair is usually accepted as a plausible explanation. I don't believe that those who are crossing boundaries are doing so un-subconsciously, they will move the line in sand inching closer to crossing it, and that process in not an accident. The article does not go into depth about the dynamic of the ego, and the enormous effort of NON-ACCIDENTAL LIES it takes to maintain the deception on an unsuspecting spouse or themselves. I think a person who cheats, more than likely has poor coping skills and characteristics that make them more vulnerable to external validation and not the it was an "accident" excuse. 2
Author Betrayed&Stayed Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 I think the thesis of the aricle is about boundaries and that people supposedly cross them unintentionally at first, and that this leads to chemical impulses in the brain that feeds the attraction, which eventually leads to an affair, and the "just happened", or it was an "accident", for those who find themselves ending up in an affair is usually accepted as a plausible explanation. I don't believe that those who are crossing boundaries are doing so un-subconsciously, they will move the line in sand inching closer to crossing it, and that process in not an accident. The article does not go into depth about the dynamic of the ego, and the enormous effort of NON-ACCIDENTAL LIES it takes to maintain the deception on an unsuspecting spouse or themselves. I think a person who cheats, more than likely has poor coping skills and characteristics that make them more vulnerable to external validation and not the it was an "accident" excuse. My situation is very close to what you described. When my wife first starting working with OM, I believe that she had no intention of having an affair with him or anyone; at the beginning. But as the relationship grew certain boundaries were crossed and red flags were ignored. I call this the Slow Fade: slowing moving the line in the sand closer and closer. A series of small compromises that over time add up to crossing the line. This Slow Fade happened over the course of a month or two. For those that are in this type of situation, at some point there is a realization that there is an attraction, a certain level if sexual chemistry. That feeling when that someone walks into the room, and you get excited. That connection that exists while talking and maintaining eye contact. We all know how that feels and what it means. This occurs way before the A is consummated. It may not be verbalized, but both parties recognize it. That is why I state that at some point it is intentional. Very intentional because then it requires lying, covering tracks, secret rendezvous', etc. 3
jnj express Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Accidental is BS---one even on a ONS, has to go thru several stop signs to get to sex 1. meet and talk, and flirt---do the 2 control themselves or not---they certainly know right from wrong 2. continue on, talk becomes suggestive---it has to---as one poster above said---you just don't fall into her vagina----something had to be discussed and planned before the 2 left the place where they are talking 3. If not already in a hotel room, or meeting place---where 2, go next has to be discussed---this is going thru a stop sign, each of them again knows right from wrong, and each knows what the consequences of what they are headed for, will be 4. Arriving at their scene of the crime---this is another stop sign gone thru 5. starting foreplay---for once again, I doubt if the 2 just fall into immediate sex---another stop sign gone thru 6. The actual sex itself---the last stop sign The 2 who participate---had at least 6 chances to think about what they are getting into, and stopping-----ONS, IS NOT AN ACCIDENT---it comprises of SIX CHOICES TO CHEAT, AND DESTROY. 6
Furious Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 My situation is very close to what you described. When my wife first starting working with OM, I believe that she had no intention of having an affair with him or anyone; at the beginning. But as the relationship grew certain boundaries were crossed and red flags were ignored. I call this the Slow Fade: slowing moving the line in the sand closer and closer. A series of small compromises that over time add up to crossing the line. This Slow Fade happened over the course of a month or two. For those that are in this type of situation, at some point there is a realization that there is an attraction, a certain level if sexual chemistry. That feeling when that someone walks into the room, and you get excited. That connection that exists while talking and maintaining eye contact. We all know how that feels and what it means. This occurs way before the A is consummated. It may not be verbalized, but both parties recognize it. That is why I state that at some point it is intentional. Very intentional because then it requires lying, covering tracks, secret rendezvous', etc. I would guess that you too have found someone other than your wife attractive, or that you have also been found attractive by women you associate with in life. The difference is you did not "accidentally", in end up in an affair. It's funny, I have always had a healthy self esteem, and when I've been approached or sensed that a colleague or someone in my circle was crossing the line, I shut that down very quickly. I'm also a terrible liar and I guess that's the difference between why some cross the line and other's don't. 2
Spark1111 Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I would guess that you too have found someone other than your wife attractive, or that you have also been found attractive by women you associate with in life. The difference is you did not "accidentally", in end up in an affair. It's funny, I have always had a healthy self esteem, and when I've been approached or sensed that a colleague or someone in my circle was crossing the line, I shut that down very quickly. I'm also a terrible liar and I guess that's the difference between why some cross the line and other's don't. I agree! The key characteristic is that the two in the slow fade tell themselves falsehoods to allow the boundary lines to blur closer and closer together; we're just friends, I like talking to her/him about the Smith account; she sees the bosses wackiness the same way I do; he makes me laugh. Nothing accidental about it. I also have been drunk outta my socks, and ALWAYS knew who I was with and why....That's called respect. My clothes NEVER accidentally fell off after the holiday party. 2
BetrayedH Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 My clothes NEVER accidentally fell off after the holiday party. I was at that party! So...you took them off on purpose! I knew it! 2
Sauron Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 My AP and I met at at a social function, had what I thought was a ONS, I did tell her I was married before anything happened, and verified that she was single I would never sleep with a married woman, to many complications. We both felt an immediate attraction afterwards. We meet numerous times one on one getting to know each other better and its now turned into years. I would say there was no accident at all.
jnj express Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Hey sauron---not to t/j here, and don't answer if you don't wish to---but I would like your thinking process here I assume you are in a LTA-----Do you possibly compare it to Bigamy---how much can you love your wife, and who DO you actually love If you are more in love with your AP, why not D. your wife, or does that cause to many other complications I would just like the thinking of a person in a LTA, as to how you justify it in your own mind, and how you manage it----as I said answer if you wish---thx
GLDheart Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Her affair was exactly as accidental as me throwing her worthless butt out. 1
2sure Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Accidental ha. Unintentional my ass. If you weren't shopping for an affair and just happen to have one... Opportunistic is as far from intentional as I'll go. It's like saying I accidentally bought coke because I wasn't planning on seeing my drug dealer that night.
GLDheart Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 The entire premise of this thread is simply another example of the amazing lengths people will go to in order to justify self fulfilling wrong doing.
mercy Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Let me see..... I accidentally fell through my ceiling while in the attic going through some old books. I accidentally ran over my tiger lilies while mowing the yard. I accidentally tripped over the curb while getting out of my truck. I accidentally put on a black sock and a blue one. But I have yet to accidentally trip and land on an erect penis after I accidentally make phone calls to a married person and accidentally send emails and pictures. But all the other accidents might have occurred before I accidentally make plans to met without my or his spouse knowing that I am accidentally going to climb on and ride the pony while having the most intellectually stimulating conversation with a person who makes me laugh and completes my soul. I am so weak willed, but that is my story and I am sticking to it. That's what the article should have said. OMG I can't believe that hasn't happened to me either. And I can't believe accidentally unintentionally reading your post - after many clicks... It must be fate! 1
Sauron Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Hey sauron---not to t/j here, and don't answer if you don't wish to---but I would like your thinking process here I assume you are in a LTA-----Do you possibly compare it to Bigamy---how much can you love your wife, and who DO you actually love If you are more in love with your AP, why not D. your wife, or does that cause to many other complications I would just like the thinking of a person in a LTA, as to how you justify it in your own mind, and how you manage it----as I said answer if you wish---thx Yes almost 7 years, not bigamy because I am only married to one. I love my wife and my OW the way they need to be loved. They are completely opposite in about every way possible. My wife is a good woman, good mother, but is inhibited in the bedroom and has been for years, very introverted, we are very mismatched sexually. It caused lost of fights, arguments resntments weeks of anger, etc So I have found outlets over the years. I am a serial cheater and have been from early on My OW is completely uninhibited, extremely sexual and drips with sensuality and is extroverted. No need for divorce, my OW doesn't want a full time husband, and I am very family oriented so I am not getting divorced unless it all surfaces, then I will deal with it. I justify it because it works for me. My kids grew up with a stable home, went to college, have careers and are very well adjusted. Details what details do you want? I help support my OW financially, and give my wife a lifestyle she would never be able to acheive on her own. Life has been good to me that way, but I earned it, and am fortunate I can do it. I spend time with both, vacation with both, go to dinner with both,go to movies with both, celebrate holidays, except CHristmas and Thanksgiving, I just do those early with OW. We are all happy.
todreaminblue Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Yes almost 7 years, not bigamy because I am only married to one. I love my wife and my OW the way they need to be loved. They are completely opposite in about every way possible. My wife is a good woman, good mother, but is inhibited in the bedroom and has been for years, very introverted, we are very mismatched sexually. It caused lost of fights, arguments resntments weeks of anger, etc So I have found outlets over the years. I am a serial cheater and have been from early on My OW is completely uninhibited, extremely sexual and drips with sensuality and is extroverted. No need for divorce, my OW doesn't want a full time husband, and I am very family oriented so I am not getting divorced unless it all surfaces, then I will deal with it. I justify it because it works for me. My kids grew up with a stable home, went to college, have careers and are very well adjusted. Details what details do you want? I help support my OW financially, and give my wife a lifestyle she would never be able to acheive on her own. Life has been good to me that way, but I earned it, and am fortunate I can do it. I spend time with both, vacation with both, go to dinner with both,go to movies with both, celebrate holidays, except CHristmas and Thanksgiving, I just do those early with OW. We are all happy. How do you know you are all happy? I could bet when you are with oen ro the to her the person left at home isn you and i would hazard a rough guess to say you might just be wrong about everyone being happy this relationship....... three way situation is destined for heartache all the way round especially for the kids how do you explain it to them or you dont you lead them to believe what about your status? what are you teaching them about love? to have a threesome and be happy or just lie about your fidelity and expect them to follow what you yourself dont believe in? doesnt work and it also teaches the girls in your family if you have daughters or even sons exactly how to treat a woman ?exactly like you are that is what your daughters or sons will follow.I am sorry to judge your situation and that is what i am judging the situation that is going to cause heartache for all....my daughters are still damaged from my exes affair.....and its horrible to have to deal with i wont go into details but my second oldest daughter has ptsd from the whole situation and i am partly responsible because i broke down when i was needed by my daughters but between me and my ex he also is responsible........he didnt stick around to help make it alright.....dont kid yourself every one is happy .....remedy the situation before you cause long term damage.....sorry i was so blunt.....had to be thsi post upset me in all honesty the blase stance you have on yrou situation....cause and effect....im off sorry if i offended you....good luck in life and love and i send all my vibes i can to your family they may remain unscathed by total disregard of cause and effect.....seek counselling i urge you too..........deb Edited September 7, 2012 by todreaminblue
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