redraven Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I'm 31, dating a 27 year old woman. Prior to meeting me, she had no previous boyfriend. I've seen the pictures of her before she met me; and, let's just say she lost a bit of weight. She is also religious, meaning, she subscribes to protestant christian religion, which also kept her outside of the dating pool. The point of all that is to say, before me, she has no experience at all. I'm head over heels for this woman. We've been dating now for close to 7 months. We've met all of each-other's family, friends, etc. I supposedly took her virginity in April, ( although I am willing to concede that I am choosing to believe her story about her past experiences, and am perhaps acting naively wtf ever) and now she and I are planning an international trip to volunteer overseas in a poorer country. Sounds absolutely great to me, all of it. Her story sounds great. I love her, the deal is, she won't say she loves me back. She says she has never told anyone that, that she hasn't ever even heard the words from her own mother, and that when she hears me say them to her, she gets close to crying. She has been in therapy over what she calls "emotional issues" which she describes as her being "shut off" emotionally from the people around her. I guess I do not know how to react. I don't know what a woman's experience of attachment is to the first man she sleeps with, and I am told that women become very attached to the men that they first sleep wit. The deal is, I don't feel like she is all that "needy" about me. Maybe I am worrying over nothing, but I feel like the words "I love you" would come babbling forth when you've met somebody who opens you up to new frontiers in terms of sex, and then you invite them to go on a trip with you volunteering in the jungle for 3 months. Am I full of **** and naive? I don't know what my next move is here, other than to just keep on waiting for her to actually say what I feel her daily actions tell me. No woman has ever treated me better, and I want this to work. Am I just dreaming that this virgin will only ever want me, and that she isn't just playing around? Sorry for rambling and thanks for hearing me out.
mortensorchid Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I'm unclear by this story you shared. Have you ever actually SAID "I love you" to her? And if so, what was her reaction? Because if you said it and what it's about based on her reaction, that would be open to other interpretations. And I hate to say this, but no matter what people think about themselves, no matter how cookie cutter or unique you think your personality is or isn't, we're all the same. One of those facts is that if one party hasn't said "I love you" by a certain point, they are NEVER going to say it. Harsh lesson, to be sure, but unfortunately rather true.
SJC2008 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 She has no exp and has emotional issues, that's ok, not everyone is perfect and the fact that you didn't deal break her over her lack of exp speaks volumes about your character. The way I see it is that she has told you about some of her past and that she is in therapy so that's a good sign IMO. Don't push and try to let things progress at their nautral course.
Author redraven Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 That is where I am at, not deal breaking, and letting things progress. I guess that no matter who replies, nobody other than myself can actually act based on the given situation, as, it is not like anyone out there knows exactly what is going through her mind, especially so if I do not. My quandary is based in the sense of wondering if women in general, become ultra-attached to the guy they lose their virginity to? Is that attachment a sort of law of nature, something that happens frequently, or am I just hoping that is what the case is for me. I'm willing to go a year without her saying it. At that point, if she can't say it, then I feel that I am right to deal break. Does that even sound reasonable?
madjac74 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I imagine if she is or was a 27 yr old virgin then she may be really unsure about love and may be incredibly confused about how she is feeling and whether it is lust or love. And if she is religious and has waited this long then she may be internally angry at herself for having sex with someone she might not love. Honestly you just need to ask her how she feels
Author redraven Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 All good things to keep in mind. Nevertheless, the question remains, is any woman who loses her virginity, likely to be a clingy with the guy she lost it to, as in me? If she does not know how she feels because of past issues, fine whatever, but in general, do woman imprint closely with the guys they "lose it" to, and can I count on that? I guess if nobody can answer, then I have to just talk it out with her, and not deal break or freak out. It would be nice to know, or at least have a reliable answer to the virginity question.Too much to drink, got to go.
madjac74 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I think most people will never forget their first. As much as I want to, I can't because she is my kids mom. But yes you are generally clingy to your first lay. But you really shouldn't let anyones opinion on a forum be a deal breaker...especially mine. If you love her, you should really talk to HER.
SJC2008 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I'm willing to go a year without her saying it. At that point, if she can't say it, then I feel that I am right to deal break. Does that even sound reasonable? I'd agree with this. If in that amount of time (regardless of emotional state) an SO can't return the ILY then absoloutely deal break. It's a tough situation with her never being told those words by her mother and now hears them from a man. I hope she's not bitter or emotionally closed off. Are there any signs if this? OTOH people who weren't shown much affection in childhood can still be very affectionate. My mother was not affectionate (God bless her) but my father was. I am a very affectionate person. Do you have any idea what her r with her father was like??
madjac74 Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I'd agree with this. If in that amount of time (regardless of emotional state) an SO can't return the ILY then absoloutely deal break. Really? Most people when given an ultimatum are at least made aware of it. He can't even talk to her about it so how much does he really love her and how much is she right for not saying it?
KatZee Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Raven you never answered this question, or maybe I missed it. Have YOU told her you love her? If you haven't, she's most likely waiting for you to say it first. If you HAVE and she just stares at you, or says thank you, and doesn't respond in kind, it means she's not at the level you're at and she's not in love with you. Downside to this is that she may never be. I was with a guy for 2 years and never once told him I loved him. That's because I don't say things I don't mean. I don't throw those three words out loosely.
newmoon Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 i'll just address the part i'd know about - a woman will never forget her first, but it doesn't her first will hold some saintly type of place in her heart; it just means we remember. so... don't put too much emphasis on you being her first - while special, it doesn't make someone clingy/needy if they weren't already so
Author redraven Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 Well, firstly, thank you all for sharing your viewpoints. Madjac: I'm not offering her an ultimatum, as I feel that would place more pressure on the situation than is preferable. Why pressure her like that, why try to control her at all? A year is a reasonable measurement of time, no? If you are going to love somebody then yeah, a year should be long enough to figure out your own level of love for somebody. After that point, for me it would be a matter of cutting losses and moving on. I'm 31, and I don't want to wait around forever to do the whole love-wedding-kids-house relationship thing. I want to make that happen while I am youngish, and as KatZee wrote, she waited around with a guy for 2 years and nada. I do not need that to be me, 33 years old, and nothing to show for it but being a sucker in love? And yes, I have said the words to her; and the reaction has never been negative in my estimation, and yes, we have talked about the situation, though, without the frankness or fearfulness that I display here online for strangers. Honestly, I think it boils down to her emo-issues, and lack of experience with the opposite sex, but then, that I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She might right now know she does not, nor will ever love me. Who can say.
the ill-made knight Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Honestly, she might be waiting to see if she eventually does love you. I stayed with someone like that once for a very long time. He was just such a good man and he adored me. I wanted to love him, but I've learned love is not one of those things you can force. Do you think maybe she feels she should stay with you because she lost her virginity to you? You mentioned her being religious so that may be a factor.
Author redraven Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Her religious background and beliefs may be a factor, she does seem to really take her religion seriously. The more I think about it the more I am thinking that I am in for heartbreak, especially with the feeback that I am getting from this post. I guess there is no real way to judge her attachment towards me in terms of some of idea of her loving me. Maybe there is no barometer, or time limit on it, in terms of "if she doesn't say ILY by such-and-such a date." Maybe I am being impatient to hear the words form her, maybe women do need more than a 6 month window. I guess I still hold out hope because she has invited me to go overseas with her for a 3 month volunteer trip. Why would a woman who feels nothing for me invite me to something like that? The trip is not for 4 months from now, and it lasts 3 months... so, she is thinking long term, right? I don't know what the answers are anymore.
The Way I Am Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Just because she hasn't said it doesn't mean she doesn't feel it. Why is it a deal breaker if she doesn't say it even though she makes you feel loved? Actions speak louder than words. No woman has ever treated you better, and you'd really end things just because she hasn't said 3 words within an arbitrary timeframe? Would you rather have a woman who says she loves you but doesn't treat you that well? As someone who grew up with parents who never used the L word and has rarely used it myself, I suggest you keep telling her that you love her. I don't mean constantly, but if there's a special moment, tell her you love her. Just give her a kiss, say "I love you", and walk away. Don't expect her to say it in return and don't get upset when she doesn't as long as her actions keep demonstrating that she cares about you. If you make her feel comfortable with the words, she may feel more comfortable saying them. I think you're putting too much emphasis on saying "I love you." To me, it seems kind of stupid to put a time limit on saying a set of words when the persons actions are demonstrating the words you want them to say. 1
Author redraven Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Just because she hasn't said it doesn't mean she doesn't feel it. Why is it a deal breaker if she doesn't say it even though she makes you feel loved? Actions speak louder than words. No woman has ever treated you better, and you'd really end things just because she hasn't said 3 words within an arbitrary timeframe? Would you rather have a woman who says she loves you but doesn't treat you that well? As someone who grew up with parents who never used the L word and has rarely used it myself, I suggest you keep telling her that you love her. I don't mean constantly, but if there's a special moment, tell her you love her. Just give her a kiss, say "I love you", and walk away. Don't expect her to say it in return and don't get upset when she doesn't as long as her actions keep demonstrating that she cares about you. If you make her feel comfortable with the words, she may feel more comfortable saying them. I think you're putting too much emphasis on saying "I love you." To me, it seems kind of stupid to put a time limit on saying a set of words when the persons actions are demonstrating the words you want them to say. You're right, you make a strong point, so thanks for your words.
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