How do you know if it's time for a divorce?

[theirishavenger]

I regret signing up to a forum simply to gain information, but I guess sometimes that's how it goes. I'll just start.

 

I'm 40, a full time stay-at-home dad and part time free-lance writer. I have no income as of yet. I have a 6yo girl and a 4yo boy. My wife works full time as a CPA and thus brings in all the household income. We've been married 9 years.

 

Over the last few years, especially since we've had kids, my wife has become more and more emotionally abusive. Although she states she is ok with the arrangement of her working and me staying home, she often makes comments as to her being the sole breadwinner since "all you do is stay home all day". She has little patience with the kids and loses her cool with them within 1/2 hour of coming home from work, especially if the kids have been fighting a lot or generally bad. My wife also usually responds to simple questions such as "Where's the new can of coffee?" with statements like "It's in the pantry. Can you wait a second or would you like me to drop what I'm doing and get it for you right this second?" There are so many different aspects to her nasty behavior that I'm at a loss to name them all.

 

I am ready to seek a divorce, because I'm just tired of dealing with her passive-aggressiveness and abuse. She is the 3rd generation of a family of women that generally became man haters because they got divorced for many of the same reasons. Her mom and sister were both divorced by their husbands, so I think there is a current of abuse running through the whole family, starting with her mother who is VERY nasty. Anyway, I guess I'm wondering, how do I initiate a divorce in this situation? Do I go down to the county courthouse and ask for some sort of packet? Or is it simply a matter of calling a lawyer? Will I need to get a job before I can start anything so I can actually pay for this? Can someone walk me through what to expect in the process? I also intend to sell various hobby items soon such as firearms and some Jeep parts, and a large toolbox. How do I sell those without raising suspicion? You can see I have lots of questions.

 

Anyway, lots of posts on here asking for help and I hope mine isn't lost in the shuffle. Pretty frustrated right now and not sure what to do or if I'm doing the right thing. I realize I stand to lose everything, and I'm not sure I can cope with it. After all, the women always win in court, don't they? I've seen kids pretty much destroyed by divorce too, and mine will never be the same, so I may decide just to suffer through it until they graduate.

 

Anyway, help? Colorado-specific info especially appreciated.

 

Thanks for listening,

 

Chris

[carhill]

Welcome to LS

 

If you've decided that recovery is out of the question and divorce is your path, it's usually pretty easy to get an overview of the process from your court's web site or through their self-help service. With children, and your non-traditional marital arrangement, I'd probably forgo that and interview three attorneys, preferably referred by people you trust and respect. Gather information before doing anything (you referenced a job and some asset sales); that way, you will be making informed decisions.

 

Personally, I would suggest mediation, if applicable in your jurisdiction. If nothing else, at least try a less adversarial, less costly path first. Ask your attorney or the self-help desk about that. Often, free or low-cost services are available. Additionally, dependent on need, there are often waivers available to assist with legal costs (filing, service, etc)

 

I've been through the process in California and my suggestions are offered as a result of that experience. YMMV. Good luck and my sympathies.

[LadyGrey]

I regret signing up to a forum simply to gain information, but I guess sometimes that's how it goes. I'll just start.

 

I'm 40, a full time stay-at-home dad and part time free-lance writer. I have no income as of yet. I have a 6yo girl and a 4yo boy. My wife works full time as a CPA and thus brings in all the household income. We've been married 9 years.

 

Over the last few years, especially since we've had kids, my wife has become more and more emotionally abusive. Although she states she is ok with the arrangement of her working and me staying home, she often makes comments as to her being the sole breadwinner since "all you do is stay home all day". She has little patience with the kids and loses her cool with them within 1/2 hour of coming home from work, especially if the kids have been fighting a lot or generally bad. My wife also usually responds to simple questions such as "Where's the new can of coffee?" with statements like "It's in the pantry. Can you wait a second or would you like me to drop what I'm doing and get it for you right this second?" There are so many different aspects to her nasty behavior that I'm at a loss to name them all.

 

I am ready to seek a divorce, because I'm just tired of dealing with her passive-aggressiveness and abuse. She is the 3rd generation of a family of women that generally became man haters because they got divorced for many of the same reasons. Her mom and sister were both divorced by their husbands, so I think there is a current of abuse running through the whole family, starting with her mother who is VERY nasty. Anyway, I guess I'm wondering, how do I initiate a divorce in this situation? Do I go down to the county courthouse and ask for some sort of packet? Or is it simply a matter of calling a lawyer? Will I need to get a job before I can start anything so I can actually pay for this? Can someone walk me through what to expect in the process? I also intend to sell various hobby items soon such as firearms and some Jeep parts, and a large toolbox. How do I sell those without raising suspicion? You can see I have lots of questions.

 

Anyway, lots of posts on here asking for help and I hope mine isn't lost in the shuffle. Pretty frustrated right now and not sure what to do or if I'm doing the right thing. I realize I stand to lose everything, and I'm not sure I can cope with it. After all, the women always win in court, don't they? I've seen kids pretty much destroyed by divorce too, and mine will never be the same, so I may decide just to suffer through it until they graduate.

 

Anyway, help? Colorado-specific info especially appreciated.

 

Thanks for listening,

 

Chris

 

 

Not once did you mention anything that you've done wrong or could improve on.

 

Since your wife seems to have a problem with you being a stay at home dad and you clearly are aware of it, why not change that dynamic?

 

Also you mention abuse.....although you certainly didn't give any examples of it, passive aggressive, possibly but I wonder if you aren't pa yourself. I would call a man who is looking for advice on how to sneak around and file for divorce without telling his wife that things are that bad, very passive aggressive.

 

Instead of being sneaky and underhanded in your approach to your marriage issues, be straightforward and honest with her with your concerns and I would think with 2 small children that you'd want to at least make some effort to talk to her about the seriousness of the situation and both of you agree to some counseling before you throw in the towel. Clearly you are seething with resentment, but chances are, she feels much the same toward you.

 

An honest discussion is in order......not the cowardly way of going behind her back without her knowledge. How would you like to get blindsided like that?

[theirishavenger]

Not once did you mention anything that you've done wrong or could improve on.

 

Since your wife seems to have a problem with you being a stay at home dad and you clearly are aware of it, why not change that dynamic?

 

Also you mention abuse.....although you certainly didn't give any examples of it, passive aggressive, possibly but I wonder if you aren't pa yourself. I would call a man who is looking for advice on how to sneak around and file for divorce without telling his wife that things are that bad, very passive aggressive.

 

Instead of being sneaky and underhanded in your approach to your marriage issues, be straightforward and honest with her with your concerns and I would think with 2 small children that you'd want to at least make some effort to talk to her about the seriousness of the situation and both of you agree to some counseling before you throw in the towel. Clearly you are seething with resentment, but chances are, she feels much the same toward you.

 

An honest discussion is in order......not the cowardly way of going behind her back without her knowledge. How would you like to get blindsided like that?

 

 

Wow. Didn't expect to get called cowardly, passive aggressive, and sneaky right out of the gate. Guess I signed up to the wrong forum. Thanks for the "help" and sorry I bothered you.

[LadyGrey]

Wow. Didn't expect to get called cowardly, passive aggressive, and sneaky right out of the gate. Guess I signed up to the wrong forum. Thanks for the "help" and sorry I bothered you.

 

No bother, I shoot straight from the hip and I call it like I see it.

 

I stand by my advice.

 

What have you done in your marriage to contribute to the problems or is it all your wife's fault?

[carhill]

OP, a variety of opinions are normal for an internet forum. I got a lot of the same when I joined back in 2008 and embroiled in caregiving, an affair and divorce. You just learn to tough it out.

 

When you have indicated your displeasure with the current state of marital affairs, what has been your W's response?

 

Have either of you suggested marital counseling?

 

I'm not in any way suggesting this is occurring in your dynamic, but I noted similar behaviors (friends called them 'mean') in my own M as my exW detached herself from it and myself. This would later be proven out by the reality of a cohabiting boyfriend prior to us settling our quite amicable and relatively brief divorce process. I learned to call this 'souring the milk'; a process to justify next steps. For myself, being embroiled in caregiving, I didn't really think to put two and two together and was in a near total reactive mode.

 

On LS, you'll find a common opinion that a woman doesn't purposely toxify a M unless she has a go-top option and plan. Again, not enough evidence if that's the case in your M, but it's one possible explanation.

 

Since you wanted advice on steps, my advice would be to:

 

1. Request MC. If your wife agrees, attend.

 

2. If the response is no, state that you will be filing for divorce.

 

3. File for divorce, and request mediation, if available.

 

4. Prosecute the case as circumstances warrant. The case isn't final and the divorce isn't granted until a court judgment is requested via the divorce process. This can take months or years, depending on circumstances. It's up to statute and the perspectives of the parties.

 

ETA, if you do choose to split up, I would strongly suggest moving to continue the children in the historical family home and for you to continue, for now, in the primary parenting role. Social services would likely agree, especially at their ages. You can make motions in your initial filing on these subjects. Essentially, as you have an non-traditional family, being a SAHD, you remain at home with the kids and your estranged spouse establishes alternative domicile.

Edited September 3, 2012 by carhill

[theirishavenger]

I thought about it and LadyGrey is right. I am a complete ****up.

 

I'm lazy. I failed in college and I can't hold achieve anything more than a midlevel blue collar job.

 

I don't fold or put away the clothes after laundry is done by me or her.

 

Although I vacuum, do some laundry, and do dishes almost every day, chores still pile up and I let them go.

 

I seldom buy birthday or anniversary cards or gifts for her. She controls all the money so my philosophy is-why, since she'd see it on the CC statement anyway and most often we can't afford things like that anyway?

 

I'm addicted to the internet and I spend a lot of time on the computer, which sucks time away from things I should be doing. I use it as a coping tool because the kids drive me into deep depressions when they misbehave or destroy things or make messes.

 

I often ask for money to support my hobbies ($20 here or there). I rarely get it but I still get more than I deserve.

 

I spend a lot of time away from home at hobby meetings or in the writers group meetings I attend. Usually 2-3 hours a week is what it averages out to.

 

I am selfish and self-centered and I don't think of others as much as I should.

 

 

 

So I guess actually it's me that's the problem, which, in that case, why not get divorced anyway? Obviously I'm just dragging them down. So far I've not found any counseling around here that is free. We simply can't afford anything else. No one wants to help you on their dime.

[theirishavenger]

I have fought depression all my life. I take various medications which have depression as a side effect, and in addition I was abused as a child. I don't know which is the actual cause of the depression and I have little faith in the medical/psych establishment to fix it as everyone just wants to prescribe me a different drug. Low self esteem issues also. I don't know why I'm typing all this.

[carhill]

Health insurance can partially or totally cover MC or, at minimum, reduce the out of pocket to a more affordable rate. Ours was 99.00 per session, contracted rate. We went for about 14 months, averaging 3 sessions a month. Your wife can decide whether committing disposable income/savings/investments to the process is worthwhile for her or not, if she is the one with all the income/asset control. She can also crunch the numbers between recovery, amicable and peaceful divorce and contested divorce and see which numbers work out better in total. Since she's an accounting professional, this should not be an issue for her. For myself, the 5K or so I spent on MC paid off in spades. Saved me between 30 and 50K in legal/accounting fees, at minimum. YMMV. I'm a blue collar guy like yourself (machinist) but my dad was a CPA so I learned a lot about the profession from him.

 

Look around locally for a 'divorced dads' support group. It's healthy IMO to connect with other men for support and advice. Anything which can bring positive energy to your situation is helpful, regardless of the eventual outcome.

[KathyM]

There are free or low cost counseling sites in most metropolitan areas. There are also counselors who will adjust their fee on a sliding scale depending on your income. Find one. You owe it to yourself and your children to do everything you can to try to save your marriage. Don't seek a divorce until you've exhausted all avenues of improvement. If your wife won't go to counseling, then go alone. Sometimes changes in one person will positively affect change in the other. If your wife is feeling the burden of financially supporting the family while you are marginally or unemployed, I'm sure it takes a toll on her. If your kids are out of control from lack of discipline, that is probably also creating a lot of tension between you. That is also something that can be improved through counseling. Divorce should be a very last resort, and only after all other avenues have been exhausted. If your wife has learned negative communication patterns from her family of origin, that can also be changed by learning positive communication techniques in counseling. Try the counseling first, and give it a good long try.

[LadyGrey]

I thought about it and LadyGrey is right. I am a complete ****up.

 

I'm lazy. I failed in college and I can't hold achieve anything more than a midlevel blue collar job.

 

I don't fold or put away the clothes after laundry is done by me or her.

 

Although I vacuum, do some laundry, and do dishes almost every day, chores still pile up and I let them go.

 

I seldom buy birthday or anniversary cards or gifts for her. She controls all the money so my philosophy is-why, since she'd see it on the CC statement anyway and most often we can't afford things like that anyway?

 

I'm addicted to the internet and I spend a lot of time on the computer, which sucks time away from things I should be doing. I use it as a coping tool because the kids drive me into deep depressions when they misbehave or destroy things or make messes.

 

I often ask for money to support my hobbies ($20 here or there). I rarely get it but I still get more than I deserve.

 

I spend a lot of time away from home at hobby meetings or in the writers group meetings I attend. Usually 2-3 hours a week is what it averages out to.

 

I am selfish and self-centered and I don't think of others as much as I should.

 

 

 

So I guess actually it's me that's the problem, which, in that case, why not get divorced anyway? Obviously I'm just dragging them down. So far I've not found any counseling around here that is free. We simply can't afford anything else. No one wants to help you on their dime.

 

No, you aren't a complete f up.......and you can change what you don't like and it sounds like you are very unhappy with yourself........and hey I've btdt, a lot of people have.

 

I hope you can realize that until you fix what the problems that are within yourself, you can't address your marriage problems with a fair shot. You owe this to your kids, to be the best dad that you can be, reasonably happy and at peace with yourself. Maybe you will end up divorcing but right now isn't the time to decide that. I suggest some IC for yourself and get treated for your depression. Your marriage issues will wait till later.

 

You can pull yourself out of your funk.......you really can.

[LadyGrey]

I have fought depression all my life. I take various medications which have depression as a side effect, and in addition I was abused as a child. I don't know which is the actual cause of the depression and I have little faith in the medical/psych establishment to fix it as everyone just wants to prescribe me a different drug. Low self esteem issues also. I don't know why I'm typing all this.

 

I'm so sorry for your pain.

 

Things can get better.

[theirishavenger]

I asked the mods earlier to delete this thread but I think I've changed my mind. If it disappears don't be surprised. Thanks for the help so far.

[tojaz]

I thought about it and LadyGrey is right. I am a complete ****up.

 

I'm lazy. I failed in college and I can't hold achieve anything more than a midlevel blue collar job.

 

I don't fold or put away the clothes after laundry is done by me or her.

 

Although I vacuum, do some laundry, and do dishes almost every day, chores still pile up and I let them go.

 

I seldom buy birthday or anniversary cards or gifts for her. She controls all the money so my philosophy is-why, since she'd see it on the CC statement anyway and most often we can't afford things like that anyway?

 

I'm addicted to the internet and I spend a lot of time on the computer, which sucks time away from things I should be doing. I use it as a coping tool because the kids drive me into deep depressions when they misbehave or destroy things or make messes.

 

I often ask for money to support my hobbies ($20 here or there). I rarely get it but I still get more than I deserve.

 

I spend a lot of time away from home at hobby meetings or in the writers group meetings I attend. Usually 2-3 hours a week is what it averages out to.

 

I am selfish and self-centered and I don't think of others as much as I should.

 

 

 

So I guess actually it's me that's the problem, which, in that case, why not get divorced anyway? Obviously I'm just dragging them down. So far I've not found any counseling around here that is free. We simply can't afford anything else. No one wants to help you on their dime.

 

I have fought depression all my life. I take various medications which have depression as a side effect, and in addition I was abused as a child. I don't know which is the actual cause of the depression and I have little faith in the medical/psych establishment to fix it as everyone just wants to prescribe me a different drug. Low self esteem issues also. I don't know why I'm typing all this.

 

Posting all of that takes a lot of courage. Your typing it all out for the same reason anyone here types anything out, you want help.

 

This is all stuff you can look at more closely. I don't really see all of these as negatives really, but there is certainly room for adjustment.

 

Don't get caught up in the whole its all my fault trap. You said that she could be emotionally and verbally abusive. Thats going to compound the situation, especially for someone that has low self esteem.

 

Counseling can be a big help, but it takes a counselor that is a good match for you. There are some that are heavy on the prescriptions, but you do have the right to request treatment without drugs. In my D I fired two PhD's/PsyDs because they were only interested in pushing meds. Rather then looking for a "Psychologist" I would suggest looking for a counseling center where you can talk to an LCSW or an LMFT. They rely more on talking through your problems and have no authority to to prescribe meds. They are also usually more affordable and more willing to work with you if cost is a factor.

 

TOJAZ

[Sauron]

No bother, I shoot straight from the hip and I call it like I see it.

 

I stand by my advice.

 

What have you done in your marriage to contribute to the problems or is it all your wife's fault?

 

Hey man, there are a lot of man haters in this place, and they think they have all the answers, and one of them posted on your thread, I have been here less than a week and they are easy to spot, look at their post count. They pack up and pile on, speak with an air of authority and speak in terms of absoultes. They are just lonely bitter women with nothing better to do than be ball busters. Call an attorney if you want out. Find a GF if your not happy and want to keep your kids and family together. But if your wife is a CPA, she probably controls the money, and you need to change that dynamic in my opinion, never let the woman control the money. Start stashing some cash that she doesn't no about and bide your time until you have a plan. Good luck to you.

[Sauron]

One other thing on the depression, psych medicines will make you more depressed and suck the living life out of you, make you neutral. If you do some research you will find that many people are put on these meds and it makes problems worse. I am not saying you shouldn't take your meds but do some research. I have a history of depression in my family, and being physically active, healthy and fit is the best anti-depressant in my opinion. Start an exercise routine with weights, cardio and clean food and see if you can see improvments, also a great stress relief. Good luck to you.

[GuyInLimbo]

Not once did you mention anything that you've done wrong or could improve on.

 

Since your wife seems to have a problem with you being a stay at home dad and you clearly are aware of it, why not change that dynamic?

 

Also you mention abuse.....although you certainly didn't give any examples of it, passive aggressive, possibly but I wonder if you aren't pa yourself. I would call a man who is looking for advice on how to sneak around and file for divorce without telling his wife that things are that bad, very passive aggressive.

 

Instead of being sneaky and underhanded in your approach to your marriage issues, be straightforward and honest with her with your concerns and I would think with 2 small children that you'd want to at least make some effort to talk to her about the seriousness of the situation and both of you agree to some counseling before you throw in the towel. Clearly you are seething with resentment, but chances are, she feels much the same toward you.

 

An honest discussion is in order......not the cowardly way of going behind her back without her knowledge. How would you like to get blindsided like that?

 

Um....wow. How many people are here with their spouses knowing what they are doing here? *crickets* Thought so. what is he supposed to do, announce it? Chill out.