guest4 Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Hi, I have been dating a nice guy for over two years. I have some concerns about him, but nothing major, and he is a nice guy and loves me very much. The thing is that we are both professionals, independent, and pretty well rounded, basically, we are used to being on our own and it is hard to think about giving up our independence, privacy and space. Neither he nor I have this warm and fuzzy feeling about marrying each other. I have, perhaps, the incorrect idea that you should not have to talk yourself into marriage, it should come naturally. ..and if it does not come naturally after all this time, then maybe it is not not the right thing. We love each other, and we have fun together, but obviously something is missing. I do not know. We have discussed family and future, but we are definetely not there. I was a few months ago, and I thought I could marry him, but after experiencing his hesitation, I have convienced myself out of that idea. At this point, my opinion is that we should either decide that it is right or wrong and move on. There is not anger or anything like that, but why force what is not right? I would like to know how did you make the decision to get married- was it "natural"? Thank you-
StartingAgain Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 I would tend to think that after two years of dating the two of you would know pretty clearly whether or not you want to marry. For some people they know pretty quickly that someone is the one they want to marry. For others, it's more an evolution of an idea. You write " it is hard to think about giving up our independence, privacy and space." This indicates that your thinking is individualistic and self-centered (I don't mean that in the perjorative sense). There's nothing wrong with this, but it is wholly incompatible with married life. You don't give your ages. How old are you and your BF? You are smart in thinking that marriage isn't something you force. It has to be something you both want. Married life can be very rewarding, but as you may know, it isn't a bowl of cherries, so you never talk yourself into it.
Debster Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 For me, I have had my share of bad relationships prior to meeting my fiance. With him, everything seemed easy. Now that is not to say that we never fight or that he never pisses me off - cause he does. But I am 100% sure of my love for him, that our goals and values are the same, that I want him to be the father of my children, that he is my soulmate and i want to grow old with him. For me, anything less would never be enough. YOu need to decide what marriage means to you. What do you want from a marriage? Some people want exactly what I want from a marriage. Others can get by with less.
SweetBee82 Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 You both love each other but very career-minded and independent. When you get married, you do sacrifice a bit of that. Don't worry, it's a good sacrifice. Are you willing to give up a bit of your independence to be with your DH? I'm not saying to be a stay-at-home wife, but to think the two of you as one instead of 2 indvs. in love with one another. I'm not saying to not think about marriage but I would go and talk to your BF about the future. See what's his views on this. However, be subtle on this subject though.
StartingAgain Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 I should add that my ex-wife was fiercely independant and considered the consequences of her actions only in terms of how they would effect her. She thought that the compromises required for marriage meant that she would have to give up her individuality. This caused major problems in our marriage, since our relationship became very one-sided. In reality, my ex should never have married; she is just too selfish. Marriage is about meeting your mate's needs. If both parnters do this, things will stay on track. If one or both fails to do this, the other partner will become resentful and the bond will start to break down. Too many people either don't understand or refuse to accept this anymore.
moimeme Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 You know you want to marry someone when the thought of being with that person 24/7 till the end of your days is absolutely delightful to you and the idea of a future without that person fills you with sadness. I don't get this weighing it up like a car purchase or whether or not you ought to take a job. If you've explored all the important questions (how to handle money, religion, kids, etc.) and you know you're both in agreement on those sorts of details, then you oughn't need to do a checklist of pros and cons. I don't think you two should get married. It should be something you embrace enthusiastically and with all your heart - not because when you add up the pros they outweigh the cons! I also have trouble with people putting careers first. A career won't care if you die, won't help you if you're unhappy, won't be there for you no matter what.
Pained Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme You know you want to marry someone when the thought of being with that person 24/7 till the end of your days is absolutely delightful to you Moimeme, I normally agree with everything you say (I've been lurking for a long time), and consider you to be very wise, but I think spending 24/7 with ANYONE would be stifling and annoying, regardless of how much you love them. For example, my mom and I are like best friends, and we get alon famously, but if I had to see her 24/7, I'd likely want to throttle her. I also disagree, to a much smaller scale, about your opinion on a person's career. Some people have truly rewarding jobs that help a lot of other people, and perhaps don't consider one other person to be the center of their lives. I think it all depends on what you do and what kind of person you are.
FolderWife Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 You know you're ready to be married to someone, when you realize that you can't live without them. I remember the SECOND I wanted to marry my husband. He'd proposed to me 4 days earlier, and I had accepted, but I knew I wasn't ready for the I do's just yet. I was ready to plan a wedding, but not ready to actually have a wedding if that makes sense. Then, it was a Sunday, and my husband called me, and told me he was on his way (he lived two hours away). Then, he called right back, and said, "There's 3 feet of snow outside!" but he still wanted to try and come see me. 15 minutes later, he called back, and said he was going to have his uncle bring his jeep over for him, and that he'd be late. 20 minutes later, he called and said that there was no way he could make it, because the roads were horrible. I remember that after church that morning, it was sooooo lonely without him. I remember thinking I can't stand to be away from him one more second. I remember calling him on my cell phone as soon as church was over, and telling him to come down. I remember when he came down how much I'd missed him, and how I couldn't stand the thought of him leaving. I remember how when he did leave, I couldn't wait for him to call me. I remember how when he finally called me after arriving home, how sleepy he was, but he wanted to elope, and I wanted to elope, so we planned it for two days later, because WE COULDN'T WAIT!!!!! That's when you know you're ready to get married...when both people want it so bad they can taste it, and you can't imagine spending the rest of your life without this person, and you don't want to spend another second away from them. That's when you know. They have to feel the same way though, because if not, then it's just a crush.
FolderWife Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 WHOA! One thing I know about marriage, if you don't know whether you should "get married or break up" then you DEFINATELY don't need to be getting married. Marriage is hard enough without having all the EFFORT of working it out. You have to love each other a lot, and want each other to be happy, etc. etc. I don't think you could live with someone. Maybe you'd better just keep a boyfriend. Have you seen any romantic movies, where a professional is in a relationship with someone for years, but they couldn't care less whether or not they marry, then they meet the person of their dreams, and marry them in the time it takes for the movie to end? Maybe that's what'll happen to you Like in the movie Two weeks notice
FolderWife Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Originally posted by Pained Moimeme, I normally agree with everything you say (I've been lurking for a long time), and consider you to be very wise, but I think spending 24/7 with ANYONE would be stifling and annoying, regardless of how much you love them. I don't think she means that actually spending 24/7 with someone would be delightful, I think she means the IDEA of spending all your time with that person is delightful. The thought of spending ANY time with my husband before we got married made me smile, and made my heart flutter. The thought of waking up next to him, and lounging around with him all day every day was perfect The thought of NOT being with him was HORRIBLE, and unbearable. Now that I am actually married, however, the thought of being stuck with him 24/7 is not such a wonderful thought The thought of living without him, while sad, is not unbearable. Marriage opens your eyes. But the part before you marry someone should be perfect bliss....because if it's not bliss before you get married, it surely goes downhill fast after you marry them..
StartingAgain Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 I must assume from your comments, Pained, that you are single and have not yet met anyone who really rocks your world. Moimeme is absolutely correct. When you find the woman you want to marry, the idea of actually living with her will delight you. But as alludes to, sometimes you'll get on one another's nerves and will want some time to yourself. But you'll still want to be with her. I know that when I was married, whenever I had to go our of town on business, it would bummer me out, since I'd have to spend the next XX days without her. When it was time for me to return home, I couldn't get to the airport fast enough. Your second statement also indicates that you have a lot to learn before you even consider a committed relationship, much less marriage. You NEVER put ANYTHING before your wife, certainly not your job. That is a fast track to divorce court. A smart woman will understand that there will be times when you have to devote more time to your job than you do to her. Your goal is to keep this to a minimum. Your wife must be the center of your life, or she shouldn't be your wife. I made a terrible mistake four years ago when I took a new, high pressure jhob that required 60-70 hours per week of my time. I came home every evening exhausted and crabby and didn't have any energy for my wife. I consider this the biggest mistake I made in our marriage. She resented it and had every right to. When she called me on it, I rearranged my priorities, off-loaded more work to my staff and cut the number of hours down to no more than 50/week. I worked smarter so that I'd have more left of me to devote to my marriage. You'll know one day that your relationship with you wife is completely different from that with your mother, or even your girlfriend.
Pained Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 No, I think you're totally misunderstanding me, for which I'll forgive you. I've had men who "rocked my world", but I still like to be by myself sometimes. I have to say that marriage isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean that you don't love the person as much as someone who is married does. A lot of people get married for the wrong reasons. Everyone is different, and has to do what is best for them. You also misunderstood me on my second point. I would drop my current job for my current boyfriend if he ever needed me, but there are some people out there who have truly spectacular, meaningful careers, and for them, that makes them happier than a spouse would. Again, it comes down to people being different.
moimeme Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Pained - Thanks for your kind compliments! I don't think she means that actually spending 24/7 with someone would be delightful, I think she means the IDEA of spending all your time with that person is delightful. Monday and StartingAgain are right; I don't mean that a couple ought to be joined at the hip; just that they are each other's favourite companion. I am always saddened when people talk about not being able to wait to get away from their spouses for a vacation or whatever. And sometimes you do have to do some 24/7. The person to whom I was married was in an accident and pretty much couldn't walk so needed tending to. I did it quite happily for six weeks and was not all that sorry to return to work. But you sure shouldn't marry if the thought of him never going home makes you blanch!!! Some people have truly rewarding jobs that help a lot of other people Yes, but not that many people. As for one person being the center of one's life - no problem with that at all; it doesn't mean the *sole* person in your life, but certainly the central one! StartingAgain- the one who let you go must've been nuts!
guest4 Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Thank you for your responses. They are very useful. The thing is that neither of us are self-centered or so concentrated in our careers. We are in our 30s, and we have excellent jobs, but we see them mainly as a way to enjoy life. I am glad we are both professionals and ambitious, but again, nothing that would interfere with each other. Sometime ago, I was thinking about it, but he analyzes everything. He has never been married, but he also comes from a broken home and the divorce rate is awfully high. At this point, I think I feel like he is rejecting me at some level since after all this time I am not Ms. Right. I have also started thinking about all the things about him that are perhaps not perfect and I am talking myself out of it completely. I am very clear on how I feel. He knows that I feel like we are on a great fling with lots of fun- a dead end relationship. He also knows that I want to have children and get married. I have made it clear that I will stay for a short time, but afterwards if I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling, we are going to end. Before you say that I am pressuring him, I am not. I would understand I am not Ms. Right, I would not be angry about it, perhaps a bit fustrated at his hesitation, but at the end of the day, you cannot force things, and he is a very nice guy. He has been good for me. Our communication is very open, and we have discussed this. I do not want him to be surprised if I do break up with him. I will be heart broken, but I do have to look after myself. If it is not right, it just is not, and I do not want to wait another 2 years to realize that. For the record, I am very analytical, and I think of everything, but I have been in relationships before, and it has come natural to want to be with that person. With my current bf, it just seems such hard work even though he is a great guy- I think we both analyze things to death. Thanks again for reading. Your words have supported what I already unfortunately suspected.
StartingAgain Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Before you say that I am pressuring him, I am not. I don't see that you are pressuring him. You a woman who wants children and is in her 30's (I hope your early 30's). Time to start thinking very seriously about that and you don't have the luxury of waiting around on him to decide if you're Ms Right. Too many women wait too long.
CurlyIam Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 StartingAgain, I second moi: your ex must be crazy! like a temporarily - or should I say permenantely - insane person.
StartingAgain Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Oh, she's certifiable. LOL Actually, she's not crazy, just one of those people who should never marry. Marriage to her is a business arrangement, nothing more.
havNfun Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 I think Curly just doesn't have the highest oppinion of men in general.
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