Why to some people dating is the relationship?

[joystickd]

Except the consequences for men are much lower...hence the higher probability in men... although that is changing as stigmas drop for women.

The consequences are usually the same with men too. As for double standards women usually are more prone to calling other women sluts due to the competitive nature of women. In order to change the stigma the competitiveness of women in the realm of dating has to change.

[RedRobin]

You prefer to skip the dating process. Its no wonder no man in your area is compatible.

 

You and I have different definitions of 'dating'. I do my best to sort out a man's compatibility before dating him.

 

A very egotistical thing to say. It show you actually feel something is being taken away. Everyone's time is valuable so what makes your time more important.

 

My time is just as valuable as his. No more no less. Noone is obligated to do anything they dont agree with.

[joystickd]

You and I have different definitions of 'dating'. I do my best to sort out a man's compatibility before dating him.

 

 

 

My time is just as valuable as his. No more no less. Noone is obligated to do anything they dont agree with.

What exactly is your definition of dating?

[joystickd]

I'm not against multi-dating in and by itself if all the involved people are informed that it's going on, so that they can make an informed decision on whether or not they want to participate in dating someone that multi-dates, then it seems ethical to me.

 

However, my personal preference is not to date someone who is multi-dating. I have found that I can't handle it.

 

Here's why.

 

I don't do online dating, never have. I might consider it one day but so far I haven't ever done it. The way I go about pursuing a woman is when someone crosses my path an I grow to like her. Then I make the decision to either pursue or not.

 

So when I pursue her and we start to build an emotional connection, then it would be hard for me to build that connection when I know she's dating other men. Especially when many women already sleep with their date after the 3rd or 5th date.

 

The most surefire way to kill a crush of mine is for me to find out she already is involved with another man or is dating other men. I don't consider such women as available, because they're focusing on other men.

 

However, a lot of women tend to tell you they're multi-dating only AFTER the fact. So one day you're talking about planning a date with the woman you're pursuing and them BAM, just days later she tells she is also dating someone else.

 

I then can't help but pull back, I lose interest, I cannot help that, because it kills my crush and destroys my interest and furthermore it also hurts to see the woman you are pursuing dating other men. And for that reason, for my own personal preference, I prefer to only date exclusively.

 

Furthermore, I find it unromantic when I pursue a woman and she expects me to maintain my interest for her and build a connection with her, while she sleeps or dates other men.

 

I don't understand how some people find it romantic to treat their possible future SO like that. That doesn't feel like true love at all.

 

And that's why I prefer to only date someone exclusively.

I am always under the assumption that there is always someone else. I guess that is why "multidating" isn't a big issue for me. Its been my experience that women I come in contact with are talking to more than one person. I started out being the other man so I really have no issues of competition in the dating realm, but once its officially a relationship then it becomes an exclusive thing.

[joystickd]

There are lots of ways to get to know someone.

 

If a man wanted to date me and someone else simultaneously I dont view that as them taking something away... nor do I feel threatened. I just view our goals and values as different. We arent compatible.

 

My time is valuable. I dont believe multidating leads to intimacy... since i am looking for intimacy... i dont multidate and dont spend my time dating those who do... i am open to getting to know people in all kinds of situations... just not romantically.

If I am getting to know someone then I am not truly expecting intimacy until it gets the relationship level. That would be if I was looking for a relationship. Right now honestly I'm just settling for getting a nut

Got to Get a Knutt - New Birth - YouTube

I am honest about what I want. It's still amazing the women that still get emotionally invested and settle for that.

[january2011]

The delineation seems common in the US. Less so in the UK and the rest of the EU. It also seems to be why multidating and FBs are so common and prevalent in the US. Again, less so in the UK and the rest of EU.

 

Here, especially in my generation, it's understood that once you have declared a romantic interest, you are in a relationship and working towards longevity. It's much more simple. There's less confusion and "the talk" is not this big ugly scary monster that's out to get you because you've already declared your interest at the beginning.

 

At one point, I despaired that the dating scene was becoming more Americanised. Especially with the increase in popularity of OLD. Now that I'm all loved-up, it is less of a concern to me.

[joystickd]

Honestly I would love to be in a relationship. In my area there is a lack of compatible women. I live in a rural area with a hell of a lot of baby mommas and divorced women. That is something that is not compatible with me. I mean they are cool to have sex with but nothing I would be in a relationship with.

[joystickd]

While I understand what you mean, you're basically saying that when it comes to dating for love, you have to assume the worst.

 

But if you have to assume the worst, then is that still true love? Is that romantic?

 

In my opinion...

 

No.

In the beginning when I meet someone I assume that until I get a certain level of investment and reassurance by actions on their part. A woman has to put that work in for me to be ok with investing myself emotionally. People can tell you a lot of things in the beginning. It's what works for me. I assume that for competition purpose. If I assume that then I will bring my A game when I spend time with her.

[joystickd]

Thank you for explaining this. I often find this to be a cultural difference between Europeans and North Americans. A European that starts dating a North American and finds out that the North American is multi-dating and perhaps even sleeping with other people, will be shocked, absolutely shocked and heartbroken.

 

Europeans generally will not understand that they have been culture shocked in such a case, because most Europeans are not familiar with (North) American style dating.

I take it in Europe you have women that don't friend zone either or any of the games American women play

[joystickd]

I do what I do because it is a MUST that she be more invested than me. It can't be I am invested more than she is. In my experience I get the short end of the stick when I am more invested. It's not about a power struggle I just do what I know works for me. If evidence presented itself that another method worked then I would be up for it. Most relationships/interactions I have had with women ended because I was invested more than she was. I realized for me that was a sucker move. Her being more invested than me provides the reassurance that she is not trying to f**k me over. Just like women want to make a man wait for sex. I have to have you the woman more invested in the interaction more than me.

[january2011]

Thank you for explaining this. I often find this to be a cultural difference between Europeans and North Americans. A European that starts dating a North American and finds out that the North American is multi-dating and perhaps even sleeping with other people, will be shocked, absolutely shocked and heartbroken.

 

Europeans generally will not understand that they have been culture shocked in such a case, because most Europeans are not familiar with (North) American style dating.

 

I think oaks and Emilia are usually the ones who explain the cultural difference, but they don't seem to be on LS at the moment.

 

You're right about the shock, HOAL. When I first encountered the N.American viewpoint on here and the resultant clashes, I felt incredulous. I couldn't understand why a lot of LS posters fought so vehemently for their right to multi-date and delineate between dating and relationships.

 

Having said that, my SO is American and we never had this issue about multi-dating or even dating vs. relationships. Though we did have "the talk" because I was rudely made aware of the necessity of this by a previous bad experience.

[joystickd]

I think oaks and Emilia are usually the ones who explain the cultural difference, but they don't seem to be on LS at the moment.

 

You're right about the shock, HOAL. When I first encountered the N.American viewpoint on here and the resultant clashes, I felt incredulous. I couldn't understand why a lot of LS posters fought so vehemently for their right to multi-date and delineate between dating and relationships.

 

Having said that, my SO is American and we never had this issue about multi-dating or even dating vs. relationships. Though we did have "the talk" because I was rudely made aware of the necessity of this by a previous bad experience.

I will say part of the multidating/player thing for me since I'm black is because of the certain view Black men have for the Pimp life. The pimpin I am talking about goes back to the Reconstruction era

[january2011]

I will say part of the multidating/player thing for me since I'm black is because of the certain view Black men have for the Pimp life. The pimpin I am talking about goes back to the Reconstruction era

 

I'm only slighly familiar with the stereotype. Though I've had black friends and colleagues, I've not dated a black guy before, so don't have any direct knowledge.

 

From what I've witnessed, some aspects of the pimpin' culture have also been adopted by non-black guys who are heavily influenced by black culture - that which is visible on the street and in the music scene, especially if they've grown up in neighbourhoods that were a melting pot of different races, cultures and nationalities.

[Anela]

The delineation seems common in the US. Less so in the UK and the rest of the EU. It also seems to be why multidating and FBs are so common and prevalent in the US. Again, less so in the UK and the rest of EU.

 

Here, especially in my generation, it's understood that once you have declared a romantic interest, you are in a relationship and working towards longevity. It's much more simple. There's less confusion and "the talk" is not this big ugly scary monster that's out to get you because you've already declared your interest at the beginning.

 

At one point, I despaired that the dating scene was becoming more Americanised. Especially with the increase in popularity of OLD. Now that I'm all loved-up, it is less of a concern to me.

 

When we moved over here in 1990, I was uncomfortable with the multi-dating thing, for this reason. I was only fifteen, and it was another thing that freaked me out about the whole thing.

[joystickd]

I'm only slighly familiar with the stereotype. Though I've had black friends and colleagues, I've not dated a black guy before, so don't have any direct knowledge.

 

From what I've witnessed, some aspects of the pimpin' culture have also been adopted by non-black guys who are heavily influenced by black culture - that which is visible on the street and in the music scene, especially if they've grown up in neighbourhoods that were a melting pot of different races, cultures and nationalities.

Its more than what's shown on television. When it started out former slave master continued to have sex with former female slaves. Mulatto men eventually convinced these women to have sex with these former slave masters and other men for money. These were the first pimps. This is why in the US some black women to this day will not date lighter skinned black men. We are seen as someone that will use them. A book that describes it good is Pimp: Story of my life. Its based in the 30s, 40s, and 50s as opposed to the 70s as movies like The Mack or Willie Dynamite will portray it.

 

I know for me I adapted the concept of a woman being more invested than the man from pimping and made that a more usable idea for me in dating.

[joystickd]

The delineation seems common in the US. Less so in the UK and the rest of the EU. It also seems to be why multidating and FBs are so common and prevalent in the US. Again, less so in the UK and the rest of EU.

 

Here, especially in my generation, it's understood that once you have declared a romantic interest, you are in a relationship and working towards longevity. It's much more simple. There's less confusion and "the talk" is not this big ugly scary monster that's out to get you because you've already declared your interest at the beginning.

 

At one point, I despaired that the dating scene was becoming more Americanised. Especially with the increase in popularity of OLD. Now that I'm all loved-up, it is less of a concern to me.

I avoid online dating. I prefer meeting someone in real life. OLD seems to me to be for lazy people

[phineas]

Every time I agreed to stop talking to other women for a woman I was dating I wound up wasting my time because she had some other guy on the line or was sleeping with an ex/ FWB, one night stands ect.

 

I was the only one abstaining from sex in those situations without fail.

 

So, Sex = exclusive. period.

If she don't like that? too bad.

 

She can go find some other chump to give her the GF treatment while she continues to shop around.

[joystickd]

Every time I agreed to stop talking to other women for a woman I was dating I wound up wasting my time because she had some other guy on the line or was sleeping with an ex/ FWB, one night stands ect.

 

I was the only one abstaining from sex in those situations without fail.

 

So, Sex = exclusive. period.

If she don't like that? too bad.

 

She can go find some other chump to give her the GF treatment while she continues to shop around.

I agree 100%

[joystickd]

When we moved over here in 1990, I was uncomfortable with the multi-dating thing, for this reason. I was only fifteen, and it was another thing that freaked me out about the whole thing.

Why exactly did it freak you out?

[joystickd]

I understand the reservations you women have about it. You see a man talking about dating more than one woman. It doesn't mean they are having sex with them or not investing in you but I see it as egotistical because you feel like something is being taken away. If a person is absolutely honest about it then there should be no problems. The ball is in your court then. Do you decide to continue getting to know this person and work hard to show your qualities that make you worthy to be in a relationship in or do you feel threatened because you perceive they are not invested in you and not talk to them at all? That is how I see it. I am just offering my perspective on things. I see men that never marry women because you give them all the benefits of marriage. I see men that never want relationships because women give them all the benefits of a relationship without being in one. I mean other benefits outside of sex too ladies. You know the closeness, intimacy and emotional investment on the relationship and marriage leve.

What would you women do?

[joystickd]

I recently read this article that fully explained the point I am trying to make:

Dating is to being in a relationship what shopping for clothes is to actually purchasing clothes. Based on what I would refer to as “traditional” or “old school” philosophies towards what the term ‘dating’ means, I will go with this definition: To say that a person is dating means that this man or woman is in regular communication with a single, unattached member of the opposite sex, and this person is hanging out socially with a number of different members of the opposite sex to determine who is the most compatible candidate to be involved in a steady, exclusively committed relationship.

For example, if over the last six months, I’ve only been in communication with one woman … and I’ve spent all of my free time with one woman … then I am not really “dating” that woman. Even if we never referred to each other as 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend,' I’m still essentially in a relationship with her. When you are truly 'dating,' this means you are going out with a wide variety of men or women to identify similar interests, tolerable differences and intolerable differences.

Using the shopping analogy again, it would be like me trying on eight or nine different business suits before I decide on the one business suit that I am going to purchase. Again, this was the basic concept of dating from those who are a part of my late mother and father’s generation. This is why most men and women from my parents’ generation frowned on the idea of premarital sex and/or casual sex. Because once you start having sex with someone, you might as well be in a steady relationship with them.

You see, no one would frown on a man going out with a new and different woman every other night over a two or three month period if he were not engaged in sexual activity with those women. Many who possess the “old school” mindset would simply say, “Oh, he’s just dating.” In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, that’s generally what it meant when you said someone was “dating.”

There is a popular show on syndicated television entitled elimiDate. You have one guy, who starts out the night with four women, and by the end of the episode, he ends up with one woman (or sometimes, it’s flipped where you will have one woman at the beginning of the episode with four men). elimiDate is a great example of how the old school concept of dating worked. A man would start off with say, six women … then he would socialize with those six women until he began to narrow that number down to five women, then four, then three, then two. . . and then finally, he decided on the one “special woman” with whom he wanted to go steady with. Sound simple and structured enough? Cool.

[side Note: A few years back, I was involved with a very popular “megachurch” in Los Angeles that would encourage dating in the “old school” manner; the leaders of the church would encourage the men to go out on a date every week with a different sister in the church. Then, the brothers in the church would select maybe five to ten sisters to go out on a second date with; from there, a slightly lesser number of sisters to go out on a third and fourth date with, until ultimately, the brother in the church selected the one sister who he wanted to be his steady girlfriend. Given that no sexual activity was allowed, that concept actually worked, and worked very well.]

I believe the reason why you have so many men and women these days jumping in and out of a number of shallow, unproductive relationships where no real romantic chemistry ever existed is because many men and women don't really take the time to truly date. Many men just want a few days or a few weeks of satisfying sex, and many women are simply trying to avoid being bored, lonely and unattached.

If you are at home right now asking yourself, "Why do I keep getting into bad relationship after bad relationship?" the answer is that you have never really allowed yourself to date. Over the next three months, six months or longer, prevent yourself from entering into a long-term relationship until you've have had lengthy, detailed conversations with at least five to ten members of the opposite sex.

Let's say you start off with eight potential male or female companions. Hang out with all eight at least once. Then, hang out with five or six of those eight a second and third time. Similarly, hang out with at least three or four of those initial eight four or five times. Finally, narrow your choices down to your final two. Really get to know these two the most. This is what true concept of dating is all about.

And just like an employer who has to make the tough choice, there you are. The one you choose is more-than-likely going to be one you have the most romantic chemistry with, the most similar life goals and relationship goals, and the least amount of intolerable differences and red flag issues.

This is my version of "Old School Dating 101 for Dummies." And trust me, I have had more than my fair share of "dumb dating" moments. Are you going to be a 'smart' dater? Or a 'dumb' dater?

[yongyong]

I didn't understand this dating and relationship thing since I came from a different culture.

(you can be in a relationship with someone even though all you guys do is cuddling and holding hands together. Once you kiss, it's like you guys became BF & GF. Sex usually happens after you guys became official)

After I had sex with her or even had a kiss, I thought we were becoming serious....LOL

 

I figured I need to adapt to the different culture. As a Man, I think I have more advantages.

I meet a girl and I bang her. I might lose some interest since I would feel like I conquered. I might not be sure if she would be the one. (guys have instincts to spread their seeds)

It's nice that while banging her, I have a choice to bang other girls to comare those two (or more) I also have no obligation to keep her since having sex doesn't mean I agreed for the relationship. If she says 'I thought we were serious', I can just laugh at her face and treat her like she is crazy.

 

The trade off is she might be doing the same thing. No guys want to share the vagina with some other dude at the same time.

 

Again, this is the culture. you either accept or leave.

[mysteryscape]

joystick (of the San Fernando porn cartel, according to one of his posts!) seems really fixated on demonstrating that there is something wrong with people, generally women, who don't like multidating.

 

Well, plenty of men -- like myself -- don't especially like it either. The only way I can multidate comfortably is if I really don't care about any of the women as actual or potential romantic partners!

 

If I'm interested enough in someone to want to spend a lot of time with her -- I figure this out pretty fast, in fact there's not much figuring, it just happens -- I want the "relationship" or "nascent relationship" or whatever you want to call it to be the only romantic interest for both of us. I don't regard it as a sacrifice or hardship for me, it makes things a lot calmer, and gives emotional space for things to really develop -- or fizzle out -- as the case may be.

 

It's not putting all my eggs -- odd term for a man -- in one basket. Because either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, life goes on to the next stage. It's hard to imagine having time and emotional energy for more than one "girlfriend" -- and at some level, gf or bf is what we're talking about whenever romantic interest is involved, whenever the "dating" is other than completely platonic.

 

My hunch is that most men who want to multidate really want to be players; most women would really prefer to be dating "monogamously" i.e. without multidating.

 

The advice commonly given nowadays by "experts" to women to multidate in order that they not become too invested in one person seems to me to be playing into the hands of the players -- hence all the moaning about pump and dump you read on these boards.

 

On the whole I think MD, at least serious MD, is a loser for women and also for men who are serious about having a monogamous relationship.

 

I grant that different things may work for different people. For myself, I will continue to steer clear of the MD'ers.

[joystickd]

Would it be a problem to multidate if there was no sex involved until an actual relationship?

[mysteryscape]

and, "sex" means different things to different people. One book by an "expert" who is definitely NOT a multidating advocate recommends saving everything from kissing onward for a committed (read, exclusive) relationship, however provisional the commitment may be. Nowadays, this might be considered extreme; in times past, it was considered more or less the norm. Extreme or not, I've known quite a few women who would be very upset thinking about their "date" making out with someone different Thursday, and someone else Sunday, in addition to them on Saturday.

 

In the distant past, I broke my own rules (and violated my truer instincts), causing great emotional pain for others, and turmoil for myself. Later I excused myself on the grounds of youth and inexperience, but I never really stopped feeling bad about it.

 

Really, I have nothing against "seeing" zillions of women friends, I love their company. I've actually gone out on "dates" with married women who were friends -- with the knowledge and OK of their husbands, who were away. Everyone was clear about what was going on. There are boundaries that have to be maintained.