Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Your options have not been narrowed. GTFout you're whining about personal fears and situations you'd face if we had a population boom or if you lived in a collapsing small town economy due to a factory closing even without women in the work force. Your options have INCREASED. You'd no longer face the same social reaction as you would have in the past if you went for roles or positions previously accepted for only women. It has increased the amount of open minded consideration for choices of all, not just women. And the more diversity in choice for women brings social adjustment to change over time. While gender roles have loosened for women they simply have not done the same for men. People still laugh at male nurses. In fact I just spoke with a guy yesterday that became a PA because his wife was unhappy for him to work in a traditionally female role. All I hear is waaaahhh waahhhh, the game isn't rigged in my favor anymore just because I dangle in my undies! As I've asked before, was it a huge injustice when college attendance was 45% women and 55% men? All I saw was how much we'd advanced from the past and how great it was. Now you're saying if its 45% men and 55% women in college its WRONG. Bitch please. More money in the home via education of women benefits children just as much as it did when it was dad bringing in the money with his degree. According to feminists it WAS a huge injustice. To the point where we passed legislation to address the imbalance and reworked our entire college system to be more female friendly. Heck they even added women studies as a major. I grew up with 2 working parents. I know this better than you. I spent 5 hours a week with my mom and 25 hours a week with a babysitter... several of whom were mildly abusive. My cousin had a babysitter who put out lit matches on his genitals. Thank you Feminism! You're only concerned with the sex parts of the people, not that the same things are happening as before. PEOPLE are still getting education and PEOPLE are up against PEOPLE in the work force just like always. What does it matter who is getting what when we never had a world where EVERYONE got what they wanted so why is it a big deal if your boy's club isn't top dog over all? If this were the truth I could happily agree with you. It isn't. The truth is that things have gotten easier for women. That is awesome. Things are worse for men. Suck. Things are also worse for kids. Suck. That is the truth.
sally4sara Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 You did not understand my post. I wrote a freaking novel there and that was the only thing you picked on. You did not address the cherry picking i gave as examples, and you went on your own ideeas. I would love to know the ages and marital status of the ppl who posted here. I think it would shed some interesting light. Margret and Charles meet and marry. They decide they want to have children. Margret intends to take extended maternity leave for the first 6 months to breast feed and bond while the child is adjusting from developing inside her body to life outside of her body. Charles intended to do the same for the 6 month period there after to have a chance to bond with the child too. Over the years and as the child develops they will have many more choices to make. Perhaps Margret will get that executive position she has had her eyes on; Charles has plans for this too. He can join the PTA and coach little league but if that doesn't come through they, as a couple, will still roll with life as a unit. Perhaps instead, he will get tapped as partner in the firm and Margret will be the one in PTA and coaching little league? In many ways, they have "cherry picked" from both traditional conservative ideals and more modern liberal ideals. And that is fine because it works for them. No sense in calling them out on the mat for not living up to the traditional or the modern across the board because there is no law or rule about it. Same situation no matter who you're looking at or what blend in life works for them. Maybe Charles is a real go getter at work but has always enjoyed having a woman fuss over him and plan most of their outtings? He has cherry picked from traditional options AND non traditional options as it suits him. Margret is the same when it came time for popping the question. She'd always idealized the traditional bended knee proposal but has a keen mind for financial investments; she will handle their finances and they chose a home because of HER work situation rather than his. That's life buddy, behind the scenes and for real. But when it comes to women you seem to take issue. Wonder why? Hmmmm..... I'm 38, one child and married.
sally4sara Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 While gender roles have loosened for women they simply have not done the same for men. People still laugh at male nurses. In fact I just spoke with a guy yesterday that became a PA because his wife was unhappy for him to work in a traditionally female role. That isn't due to any natural law or real wrong. Its on him for not choosing a more open minded and supportive partner to marry - NOT the fault of feminism or the growing pains a society goes through as it advances. He certainly never had to marry the woman he married because HE has never had to rely on marriage to get his basic needs met. According to feminists it WAS a huge injustice. To the point where we passed legislation to address the imbalance and reworked our entire college system to be more female friendly. Heck they even added women studies as a major. And because we as a society went through that to seek change, if it becomes lopsided the other way, we will know how to promote education for men in the future - the same ways we did with women. You're only assuming these processes can only and will only ever benefit women. I grew up with 2 working parents. I know this better than you. I spent 5 hours a week with my mom and 25 hours a week with a babysitter... several of whom were mildly abusive. My cousin had a babysitter who put out lit matches on his genitals. Thank you Feminism! Oh yeah, that was because of feminism and not because the sitters were nut jobs and the parents didn't just assume vagina meant good child care provider. Why do you blame these situations on your mother working and not your dad? He was just as capable of staying home for your care was he not? If this were the truth I could happily agree with you. It isn't. The truth is that things have gotten easier for women. That is awesome. Things are worse for men. Suck. Things are also worse for kids. Suck. That is the truth. You have no truth here. Only misdirected anger and blame.
strongnrelaxed Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Women will never truly wear the pants in relationships until there is true accountability. Right now, women are not accountable for anything. They can say or do virtually anything they want but do not have to pay for it. And it is not women who paid the ultimate price for such privileges. When that starts happening, then we can have a real discussion. All of the roads, inventions, philosophies, buildings, technological innovations, discoveries, chemical compounds, renaissance art, medieval art (most art in general), music, architecture, economic theories, education structures, governments and....well you get the point...have been created by man. Women have repeatedly demonized these things while at the same time benefiting from them. That is sickening to me, but I know I am in the minority on this one. It is like younger people criticizing soldiers who served in Vietnam. I find this disturbing. Women are also the primary beneficiaries of police and military protection. Imagine if you will what would happen if all the men in the US said "Ok honey, you're in charge. You wear the pants" Let's just start with the police, the military, and the court systems. The good American men go on vacation to Canada for five years. Can you imagine what would happen? First of all, another country with strong aggressive males will pour down on the US so quickly that it would make your head spin. Women would put up a good fight, but it would not be pretty. The female police could do no better against the bad boys who stayed behind - because that's exactly what they would do. Imagine a court system where care and concern for feelings took precedence over justice? (there are two prominent and respected female researchers Belenky and Gilligan who make good points about women's moral development in this way). The repercussions would be swift and devastating. I would prefer to be in Canada while this all goes on. We would lose the US very quickly I can tell you that. The next men would breed a hardier race of men too. They would "man up" real quick and the women would have no choice but to do what they have always done historically. I am not saying that women are evil or bad or incompetent. Women and men are different. Period. Men are biologically designed by nature and evolution for certain things. Women are designed by nature for other things. Do I really have to spell this out? The problem is that society tries to engineer these roles in perverted ways. Religion is a perfect example of this. This new social engineering is surprisingly quite popular. Fortunately I will be dead a long time before the worst of the consequences hit America. Women and men should work together and stop letting elite feminists, Republicans, Socialists, and religious cult leaders tell us who and what we are. For many men and women, the relationship is just fine the way nature intended it. Everything else is a personal negotiation between two adults.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 s. I would love to know the ages and marital status of the ppl who posted here. I think it would shed some interesting light. 33 yo male... currently married. What S4S isn't addressing is the effect of supply and demand. Over the course of the last 40 years we have dumped 60 million women into the workforce, but only grown the economy by 50 million jobs. The effect is that wages have been stagnant. She would like to pretend that women have more options... but the truth is that they don't. Women now must work. Unless their husband is in the top 20% of earners they have to have a job. Single moms make up the largest group living in poverty. 79% of them have jobs.
strongnrelaxed Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 That isn't due to any natural law or real wrong...NOT the fault of feminism or the growing pains a society goes through as it advances. You have no truth here. Only misdirected anger and blame. I agree with you Sally. These are pains. I also agree with you that feminism is the cause of this societal pain. I also see that there is no way men will be able to stop feminism. It is just a new fact of life. Just like other movements in the past, the weak will be manipulated into supporting a cause that they do not understand. It takes a lot of studying history and philosophy to see the patterns. Most Americans are too lazy to do this. They respond very readily to stereotypes, symbols, fear, greed, and manipulation. Feminism has been hijacked the same way that Islam has been misused (No, I am not a Muslim, nor am I a supporter). So young women will pick up their arms and march in the name of a movement that has been subverted to other aims. Willingly no less! Marching headlong down a path to their own doom. Just like men sign up for the military thinking that they are defending freedom, only to be dropped in the the middle of the desert to kill innocent unarmed civilians. When they get their limbs blown off they come back to a country that has no money to take care of them. No benefits. Little support - except for the families just like theirs who take up collections for them. Don't take my word for this. You know it to be true. What happens when the consequences of all this virulent form of feminism reaches its final conclusion? My guess is the same as always. Poor women will take the blame, men will take the blame and the next generation of children will be left with the mess to fix. Geez people. Read some history. How many more times does this have to happen before we wake up? 1
Quiet Storm Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Although I do feel that women should have equal opportunities, I believe that men and women are generally very different. I think our differences should be accepted and celebrated. I think generally men make better soldiers and women better babysitters. This isn't to say that a woman can't be a good soldier or a man a good babysitter, but I do believe that some traits, like nurturing and fighting are strengths that could be celebrated. As women, we have proven that we can do everything men can do...but now what? I have my degree and a career, I strength train and don't need a man to change the giant water jug in the office cooler...but you know what I like to do most? Cuddle with my kids and spend time with my husband and family. I know not all women are like me, but if you are...it's okay. You don't have to fight it. I think one important thing that both sexes have in common is that we both want to be loved and respected. The misconception is that some men think their women will only feel loved if they defer to her wishes or give in to every demand. I think this quest for love and peace, can result in a loss of respect. Another misconception is that some women feel that allowing a man to make decisions diminishes her power. When women are argumentative and competitive with their men, it can cause a man to disrespect you just as much or more than if you were a doormat. Over time it can definitely kill the love. The main thing is that you have to be true to yourself. If you are deferring to your girlfriend about something important to you just to keep the peace, then you're feelings are being marginalized. It's the same with the sexes reversed. It can create an unhealthy dynamic that is hard to change. 3
Badsingularity Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I believe that men and women are generally very different. One of the things that causes the most confusion and the biggest problems between men and women today is the fact that people in our society are taught and told from birth that there are no differences between men and women and that men and women should be attracted to the same things and become attracted to each other in the exact same way. This is not just not the case. I think our differences should be accepted and celebrated. Exactly. The couples who do this always seem to be the happiest. 2
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 That isn't due to any natural law or real wrong. Its on him for not choosing a more open minded and supportive partner to marry - NOT the fault of feminism or the growing pains a society goes through as it advances. He certainly never had to marry the woman he married because HE has never had to rely on marriage to get his basic needs met. If she was the only woman in the world who felt that way... you would have a great point. In what ways have gender roles loosened for men? Just as an example... the vast majority of women still demand that a man pay for dates. And because we as a society went through that to seek change, if it becomes lopsided the other way, we will know how to promote education for men in the future - the same ways we did with women. You're only assuming these processes can only and will only ever benefit women. That isn't true and you know it. The few colleges that tried to implement some type of affirmative action plan for men, were sued by women's rights groups and lost. We can see the problem growing. We can see men getting cut from many social services and assistance programs. We just can't do anything about it because the system is paralyzed by politically powerful women's groups, who refuse to recognize it as an issue. Oh yeah, that was because of feminism and not because the sitters were nut jobs and the parents didn't just assume vagina meant good child care provider. Why do you blame these situations on your mother working and not your dad? He was just as capable of staying home for your care was he not? You have no truth here. Only misdirected anger and blame. My Dad did stay home for periods of time. He worked in construction and would have consistent stints of unemployment. My mom believes in the feminist cause. She would not quit working despite my consistent asking. I'm too old to be angry about it anymore, but that also means I'm old enough to put the blame where it deserves to be. I don't want to go back to 1950... the feminist movement has done some good things. They just need to stop man hating and stop being myopic.
SteveC80 Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I honestly can't respect a man who wants to take the backseat and let me lead. I'm much more attracted to Alpha males and no true Alpha would ever sit back and let me take the reigns. Nor would I want to do that. That's just unappealing as hell to me. Now, there's the other side of the coin where the expression, "happy wife, happy life," comes into play. Occasionally it IS just easier to acquiesce for the greater good - the price a man might pay for standing his ground may just be too high so he chooses to take the path of least resistance for the sake of peace and keeping her happy. A man just needs to choose his battles wisely, is all. That's really the secret. What do you think it is exactly that attracts you specifically to alphas and turns you off and makes you lose respect for man who arent alphas?
ThaWholigan Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 One of the things that causes the most confusion and the biggest problems between men and women today is the fact that people in our society are taught and told from birth that there are no differences between men and women and that men and women should be attracted to the same things and become attracted to each other in the exact same way. This is not just not the case. Exactly. The couples who do this always seem to be the happiest. I do agree. Like I was saying earlier though - some men and women are different from others. Some dominant women are in relationships with passive men, and it works. It depends on the characters in question, the balance and the individual differences. Not everybody resonates on the same frequency in my humble opinion. 3
Titanwolf Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I do agree. Like I was saying earlier though - some men and women are different from others. Some dominant women are in relationships with passive men, and it works. It depends on the characters in question, the balance and the individual differences. Not everybody resonates on the same frequency in my humble opinion. I am FFFFFFEEEEEELING the amount of wisdom you generate on this forum. Grow a beard I beg you please? just to make it legit 1
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I saw a TV special on the discovery channel once where some volunteers wanted to do an experiment: how to survive using stone age technology. I read some studies on African hunter gatherer tribes. Women gathered 85% of the food... did all the chores, made nearly every household item, and took care of the children. The men went hunting twice a week brought home 15% of the total food. They did no chores beyond making weapons and spend most days sitting around the fire getting drunk.
ThaWholigan Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I am FFFFFFEEEEEELING the amount of wisdom you generate on this forum. Grow a beard I beg you please? just to make it legit It was massive until I went barbers yesterday. I'll grow it back again 1
Titanwolf Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 It was massive until I went barbers yesterday. I'll grow it back again Haha wicked
Radu Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I saw a TV special on the discovery channel once where some volunteers wanted to do an experiment: how to survive using stone age technology. Pls find this Documentary's name or ... some way to watch it. 1
threebyfate Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 *enters thread wearing elasticized waist yoga pants* Make me a sammich, boys. 1
Titanwolf Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 *enters thread wearing elasticized waist yoga pants* Make me a sammich, boys. Yes, oh heavenly blessed beauty. With or without the crust? 2
ThaWholigan Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Yes, oh heavenly blessed beauty. With or without the crust? Would you like some peanut butter too? How about some......... Mayonnaise 2
Radu Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 *enters thread wearing elasticized waist yoga pants* Make me a sammich, boys. My caveman brain wants to feed you untill it comes out, after that you're on your own ... so ok. 1
threebyfate Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Yes, oh heavenly blessed beauty. With or without the crust? Thank you. And in return, a power tool for you! Would you like some peanut butter too? How about some......... Mayonnaise Thank you. Peanut butter's fine since mayo caused my present predicament. But in return, a power tool for you! My caveman brain wants to feed you untill it comes out, after that you're on your own ... so ok.Thank you too. And a rental power tool for you. So...can everyone see how this works now? 3
Woggle Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 If a couple is arguing over who wears the pants they lost already. Nearly every truly happy relationship I have seen is a truly equal partnership and not a hierarchy. The women I know who run their husband are not the career women but the ones who don't work and use their husband as a walking wallet. I once ran into my former boss and his wife in a mall once and she was literally stomping up and down and screaming like a child who was denied a toy when he couldn't afford a handbag for her that cost a couple thousand. He eventually gave in. Now that is a man who is whipped not a guy with a wife who contributes equally to the finances. 1
KungFuJoe Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 If a couple is arguing over who wears the pants they lost already. Nearly every truly happy relationship I have seen is a truly equal partnership and not a hierarchy. The women I know who run their husband are not the career women but the ones who don't work and use their husband as a walking wallet. I once ran into my former boss and his wife in a mall once and she was literally stomping up and down and screaming like a child who was denied a toy when he couldn't afford a handbag for her that cost a couple thousand. He eventually gave in. Now that is a man who is whipped not a guy with a wife who contributes equally to the finances. This is true. Kinda like if you think your partner is cheating it means there is a problem, whether you are right or wrong.
Badsingularity Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 I wear the pants because I prefer them to dresses. My wife on the other hand goes both ways. 1
monkey00 Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 This thread just goes to show how much unbalanced women there are as there are unbalanced men. I can't really point the finger at just women. Guys these days are lazy and many are not hard working/unambitious and avoid taking the lead. It really is too easy to give in to avoid an argument. Are people really that non-confrontational these days? Or men particularly?
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