Emilia Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I'm not sure I follow; could you explain this a little more? Sorry, just found this. If I remember right the argument carhill put - and what you agreed with - was that it suited a man better to care less in a relationship and not put a woman on a pedestal. You said you recognised that feeling and that your wife was comfortable with that but you weren't sure why. Putting someone on a pedestal and caring so much for a relationship is a lot of pressure for the person who is put on the pedestal. We all know we can't live up to the expectation. I once told one of my exes to take me off the damn thing because there was going to be a Saddam Hussein moment one day.
GorillaTheater Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Sorry, just found this. If I remember right the argument carhill put - and what you agreed with - was that it suited a man better to care less in a relationship and not put a woman on a pedestal. You said you recognised that feeling and that your wife was comfortable with that but you weren't sure why. Putting someone on a pedestal and caring so much for a relationship is a lot of pressure for the person who is put on the pedestal. We all know we can't live up to the expectation. I once told one of my exes to take me off the damn thing because there was going to be a Saddam Hussein moment one day. Gotcha, thanks. I think what confused me was not necessarily your take on pedestals, which I agree with by the way, but why my wife would prefer it if I cared about the relationship less than she did. That's seems to be the case, like I mentioned, but I truly do not understand that dynamic.
Emilia Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Gotcha, thanks. I think what confused me was not necessarily your take on pedestals, which I agree with by the way, but why my wife would prefer it if I cared about the relationship less than she did. That's seems to be the case, like I mentioned, but I truly do not understand that dynamic. I'm still sure it's about pressure. I remember having a conversation with a poster here about openness in a relationship (he is a very open person). I tried to explain that his openness put more pressure on the other person. It's all relative. Once someone steps up, it's pressure for the other person too to follow. I also think women can be more comfortable with the classic pull-push dynamic, it's almost something they expect especially if they grew up with a quiet father.
carhill Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 My 'pedestal' was limited to sincere and honorable intentions, meaning specifically that the woman was genuinely interested in me as a person, as I her, and not using me as a marital aide tool, filler material, ersatz boyfriend, etc, etc. That's the extent of the 'pedestal' I built. I would only come to understand it in retrospect and never gave it much thought during the actual period described. If anything, my socialization instructed me that people, including myself, were flawed and imperfect, and it was my mandate to accept imperfection, to 'give the benefit of the doubt' and to love people for who they were/are. Those aspects, coupled with the realities of prosecuting that socialization with less than equitable and healthy boundaries are what led to the retrospective branding of the behaviors/perspectives as 'pedestal building'. In retrospect, the most harmful aspect was investing, 'building' in the realm of authenticity. It was construction without a healthy foundation.
joystickd Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Just because you are the pursuer doesn't mean that you are automatically trusting her. It also doesn't mean you are putting her on a pedestal. It just means you are showing interest and opening the door to possibility. The whole thing about guys with bad intentions vs. women with bad intentions is that typically, women are smaller and weaker. A woman with bad intentions might break a man's heart, but a man with bad intentions may do much much worse. So yes, a guy has to earn trust, because a woman has more at stake when getting to know someone. Both genders have about equal amount at stake. The smaller and weaker argument is only applicable to only one type of bad intention. There are plenty of women that will work hard to ruin a man's reputation and that is something that can take years to repair. I have someone now that because I wasn't a sucker still if she knows I am talking to someone will try to ruin that. The only thing I did was open my eyes to what she was doing. Both genders have to earn trust. It's not a one sided deal.
joystickd Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Some people in some contexts need to be put on a pedestal. If you're a low status male, why would you not put a superior being (a woman) on a pedestal? You have to earn her respect and earn her desire to spend time with you. Otherwise you're just a burden. What would constitute low status? I mean that is a subjective thing. One woman may see you as low status then another may see you as high. Its based on how she sees you in comparison to her status. In reality its not about status its about how you see yourself. If a person values themselves then the other person will value them. If a person doesn't value themselves then the other person won't value them. We in a sense teach people how to treat us.
joystickd Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Of course not. But SOMEONE has to make the first move. Sometimes a woman does make a first move. But in our social history, men are typically the pursuers. Like it or not, it's just the way it is. You can be angry about it, or you can learn to live in society as it is. If a guy sits around waiting for a woman who will make a first move, he may be sitting around waiting for a long time. It's better to take your fate into your own hands and stand up and get what you want. My advice would be the same for women. Actually not true a lot of my interactions with women they made the first move. It's all about how bad the woman wants you and her own personal beliefs and values. Times are changing and there are a lot more aggressive women when it comes to dating. You all want to be equal and some hate gender roles so step up to the plate and be an equal.
joystickd Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him.. I have a saying I have heard numerous times: "Don't chase 'em replace 'em" I know for me I have had women approach me. I really liked it and contrary to the beliefs on here some of the women that I thought were easy were ones I approached. I think I look at women approaching differently than the women look at it. I have a great appreciation for women that approach because I realize its a hard thing for them. I approach women. I don't chase or pursue. I basically in some way make my interest known and then put the ball in their court for them to reciprocate so essentially we are proving whatever to each other. I don't ask for numbers I give mine out. If a woman is interested she is interested bottom line. You don't have to go the extra mile to campaign. Notice the women that express a desire to be chased are either single and not by their choice or married and really it has been years since they have dated so they stick to obsolete beliefs. 1
jcrew11 Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him.. I think its because of the whole male rapist thing, and having children out of wedlock with absentee fathers.
filani Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 I have a saying I have heard numerous times: "Don't chase 'em replace 'em" I know for me I have had women approach me. I really liked it and contrary to the beliefs on here some of the women that I thought were easy were ones I approached. I think I look at women approaching differently than the women look at it. I have a great appreciation for women that approach because I realize its a hard thing for them. I approach women. I don't chase or pursue. I basically in some way make my interest known and then put the ball in their court for them to reciprocate so essentially we are proving whatever to each other. I don't ask for numbers I give mine out. If a woman is interested she is interested bottom line. You don't have to go the extra mile to campaign. Notice the women that express a desire to be chased are either single and not by their choice or married and really it has been years since they have dated so they stick to obsolete beliefs. ^^^ This Totally agree with joystick, 'chasing' is so out of vogue for me. I make my intentions known but if she doesn't respond positively and clearly soon enough for my liking then it's on to the next one, don't have time or energy to play the 'chasing game' I value my self respect and pride too much to throw it all in the mud for the sake of 'proving myself' to any prospective love interest !
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