AD1980 Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him..
ThaWholigan Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him.. It's a bit funny that guys see it that way, as I don't put myself on the line in such a fashion yet I don't see what's wrong with courting. The two are mutually exclusive in my experience. It's not so much "Proving yourself" as it is just simply engaging in the game of seduction - however it plays out for the two individuals involved and their contrasting styles. This is why I advocate that guys become better at articulation, making themselves attractive and becoming skilled at creating attraction/intrigue alongside their natural character. I was explaining this to another poster who got a bit annoyed and insinuated the same thing that you have in your post - that you're not going to jump through hoops to impress a woman. It's a bit weird that you see standard practice as something you have to do to impress women, when I don't see it that way. I don't even put myself out there like that, but even guys who do, do so because that is their style that works for them in terms of courting and chasing. And on the subject of trust - I'm sure that it would be more attractive to women if guys also were more reserved with their trust to the same level as them. It shows character and lack of neediness, but obviously you don't want it to be extreme. 3
KungFuJoe Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I don't "court" or "chase" women. Never have. People who "chase" women then complain why they have to are like fat people who keep gorging on food but wonder why they are fat. 3
Bristolius Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 It would be wise to accept that you will need to prove your worth to a woman. You will probably need to approach and pursue to some extent. There are reasons, but knowing them will not change the situation. On the other hand, The "courtship" is how you find out about her and learn if she is right for you. Asking a woman on a date does not mean you are devoted to her, only interested in her. This dynamic is neither fair nor unfair. It simply is, like gravity. 3
GorillaTheater Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 It's not so much "Proving yourself" as it is just simply engaging in the game of seduction - however it plays out for the two individuals involved and their contrasting styles. Exactly. Not to say there aren't guys who do put women on pedestals. It usually winds up the same way as when anyone is put on a pedestal: someone is sure to be disappointed.
pteromom Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him.. Just because you are the pursuer doesn't mean that you are automatically trusting her. It also doesn't mean you are putting her on a pedestal. It just means you are showing interest and opening the door to possibility. The whole thing about guys with bad intentions vs. women with bad intentions is that typically, women are smaller and weaker. A woman with bad intentions might break a man's heart, but a man with bad intentions may do much much worse. So yes, a guy has to earn trust, because a woman has more at stake when getting to know someone. 1
Woggle Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Men should make women prove themselves. A woman with bad intentions might not do much physically but if it gets serious she certainly can ruin him in family court.
pteromom Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Men should make women prove themselves. A woman with bad intentions might not do much physically but if it gets serious she certainly can ruin him in family court. Well, yes. Everyone should make a person they are entering a relationship with "prove themselves". But it usually isn't gone about in such a contentious way. You start dating. Over time, trust is earned. If trust is broken, a smart person will address it before deciding whether to continue to move forward. You have to pay attention to who a person is. This means to pay attention to their relationships with their family; their relationships with their friends; their jobs and career history; how they are with honoring their commitments. One of the big mistakes men and women both make is to get into a relationship with someone who is flaky, a liar, manipulative, self-destructive, etc. and somehow think they will magically change within a relationship just because they are in "love".
Radu Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 If you end up having to court and chase a woman, chances are she does see herself on a pedestal and you are playing into that. What you want is a woman who wants what you want, and then you take it from there.
Woggle Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 If you end up having to court and chase a woman, chances are she does see herself on a pedestal and you are playing into that. What you want is a woman who wants what you want, and then you take it from there. Yup. It is best if two people start a relationship on equal footing.
sally4sara Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I think its just an echo from our past courting standards. We move from women as property traded among men (father to suitor). Then we move to men able to hold jobs while less work opportunities were available to women requiring that they catch favor from a good earning man (and he family's approval). If they tried to woo a guy they would seem a bad choice as a mate in society; not very lady like . Then we move to women able to get lower earning jobs that put them near higher earning men in the work force. Basically working a job with no intention of working towards anything more than a marriage and becoming a house wife there after. If she wanted a career it was assumed she would not settle into married life of managing kids and entertaining her husband's colleagues with dinner parties. Now, with equal work and wage opportunities, all that came before is unnecessary but still negotiable options. Some people are still swayed by the beat of the past. Even if they do not want a life like what their mothers had, they were still drilled on the standards of their parents. Same goes for men. We'll get there eventually.
ThaWholigan Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 What I think would be more concern to guys who think this way is the fact that courting doesn't really end when you are in a relationship. As the cycle goes, you have to adhere to the natural ebb-and-flow of the relationship and the seduction game never stops. This is why marriages go sour in my observations. To continue the courtship keeps things fresh, and of course, there will be times when there is comfort and ease, and that is natural, and then you resume. It does depend on the girl, your style of courtship, her style of courtship, and the nature of the relationship. But some form of consistent seduction and courtship shouldn't feel like a chore - and if it does you are probably not compatible, nor is there a lot of chemistry or spark to work with. 3
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 I do wish dating was like it used to be. Where you just handed a girl a piece of paper that said "do you like me, check yes or no". It's a whole lot simpler. And a lot less game playing involved. 1
GorillaTheater Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 What I think would be more concern to guys who think this way is the fact that courting doesn't really end when you are in a relationship. As the cycle goes, you have to adhere to the natural ebb-and-flow of the relationship and the seduction game never stops. This is why marriages go sour in my observations. To continue the courtship keeps things fresh, and of course, there will be times when there is comfort and ease, and that is natural, and then you resume. It does depend on the girl, your style of courtship, her style of courtship, and the nature of the relationship. But some form of consistent seduction and courtship shouldn't feel like a chore - and if it does you are probably not compatible, nor is there a lot of chemistry or spark to work with. Wholigan nails it again. I've possibly been married as long as you've been alive, and you stated it better than I could. You're going to do well in this life. 2
Ross MwcFan Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 My one big problem with the whole courting and chasing a women in the begining concept is that it is bascially saying the women should automatically be trusted and put on a pedestal where the guy is trying to prove himself and his intentions to her and not the other way around as much.. Why is a guy not to be trusted till he proves himsef but not the women? Theryes just as many grimey females with bad intentions as there are men out there both sides should pursue 50/50 in the begining of the feeling out process before two people really know each other.. The whole thing seems to be about protecting a womens feelings and well being while the guy has to go in kamikaze style and blindly hope this women hes pursuing isnt just stringing him along or using him.. This is how I've seen it for a long time. It's almost as though the guy has to get on bended knee as though he's not worthy. Seems really undignifying to me, and sometimes I'll think 'Do I really want to do that myself?'
pteromom Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Seems really undignifying to me, and sometimes I'll think 'Do I really want to do that myself?' It's not about being undignified. It's about opening yourself up and becoming vulnerable. And it is a GOOD thing if you are being smart about who you open yourself up to. 2
KungFuJoe Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 It's not about being undignified. It's about opening yourself up and becoming vulnerable. And it is a GOOD thing if you are being smart about who you open yourself up to. Best post in this thread...by FAR.
Greznog Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 These kind of statements are always sort of hypocritical when coming from women since you don't live as you preach. It's the same thing when women post about how/when/why men should ask women out.. all the while being absolutely petrified to approach someone themselves.
KungFuJoe Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 You guys can continue to discount good advice all the while sitting there wondering why you're still single. 2
PJKino Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 It's not about being undignified. It's about opening yourself up and becoming vulnerable. And it is a GOOD thing if you are being smart about who you open yourself up to. to the op's point though why does the man have to open himself up and become vulnerable before the women? Are the womens feelings and ego worth more?
ThaWholigan Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 You guys can continue to discount good advice all the while sitting there wondering why you're still single. They don't actually understand the advice they are being given, that's what I think anyway.
SteveC80 Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Unless you'e a very good looking dude youre gonna have to kiss some ass and bs a women to even get a women on your level of attractiveness its just how it works Its really not that hard if you want pussay bad enough,just make stuff up take lines from movies and say how shes the most beautiful interesting person in the world even if you dont mean that sh*t
KungFuJoe Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 to the op's point though why does the man have to open himself up and become vulnerable before the women? Are the womens feelings and ego worth more? Simple. He doesn't. End of story.
KungFuJoe Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Unless you'e a very good looking dude youre gonna have to kiss some ass and bs a women to even get a women on your level of attractiveness its just how it works Its really not that hard if you want pussay bad enough,just make stuff up take lines from movies and say how shes the most beautiful interesting person in the world even if you dont mean that sh*t LOL. So how's single life treatin ya? Pretty good I imagine.
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