Friends first? For how long?

[Mycteria]

if she said that, its cause she doesnt find him 'hawt'. translation, no romantic potential. and worse is hes a back burner guy she can use for free meals. some guys put ther lives on hold for their girls. bad news for the guys because shes not into him. warning to guys watch out for this youre being used and thrown up and spit out.

Definitely not true. She thinks he is attractive (he is). And she doesn't use him for free meals at all. He also hasn't put his life on hold for her. Trust me I think she definitely adds more to his life than she takes away. That's why he likes her so much.

[Mycteria]

 

My personal feeling is when you meet guys, either be just friends and nothing more, or go for the causal dating on the idea that if you don't see a RL with him in the future, be ready to cut him out of your life completely...because he'll be trying harder to get you to commit.

 

Completely understood. Thanks!

[Mycteria]

but thats what i observe in the city. gals have tried to loop me in with this bs. i laugh it off. but guys who are booksmart but not streetsmart fall for it. some are on a leash for years. they never get the girl. are you sure hes getting a lot out of thing. gals will spin it but guys wont. whats going to happen when she doesnt choose him?

The part about getting a lot out of it - that's something that he told me, not her. So I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just lie about that out of the blue, especially since he's the one that brought it up (away from her).

 

If they don't end up together I'm sure they will just stay friends until he meets someone else and they will eventually drift apart due to distance/lack of time.

[Mycteria]

Mycobacteria:

 

Your sister is correct! At age 18 she should not be thinking about LTRs. Furthermore, she should not be thinking about sleeping around either. She needs to mature, grow up, and get an education. Those are her primary goals. There is nothing wrong with your sister.

The topic of this thread wasn't whether or not she should be pursuing a relationship. Thanks though!

 

Edit: I also don't think sleeping with one guy that she has known for years really qualifies as sleeping around. But, to each their own.

[Mycteria]

your in misisippi. if its a little very conservative town plausble where there few guys. but it doesnt hapen in cities.

I'm in the capital, 900k people in the metro area. It is conservative, but most of our friends are pretty liberal. I don't see what difference being in a big city would make about this issue, though.

[ChatroomHero]

You're right, if a guy told me that I would feel like he probably was not interested in dating and possibly was just using me for sex. But if his actions showed that he also valued me as a friend, and I valued him as a friend as well, I would be fine with the relationship. As long as I were also free to date other people. If he came around and wanted a relationship, then great. If not, I would continue to see him casually unless I met someone else.

 

The ready light for me is probably going to be the point at which I am done with school and ready for marriage/kids. I just don't see the point in exclusivity/commitment until you are nearing the point that you want to get married.

 

Well you are obviously very smart and mature and I am guessing you are straightforwrd with what you want, so it might work well for someone like you and not come across as mixed signals.

[Emilia]

But really, what you would or what I should do wasn't the point of this thread. The answer is easy from my perspective - like you said, just don't date them. The point of the thread was to find out a guy's perspective on this. Would a guy be willing to remain casual friends in this scenario, or would he cut ties with the girl completely? Or would a guy be ok with a non-exclusive relationship for a period of time? Those are my questions.

 

With sex? Only if he didn't really like her. A guy who is comfortable with some physical intimacy and/or sex without commitment/exclusivity isn't into the girl. A man who is into a woman properly does not want to risk her f***ing someone else and will try to tie her to him. Only guys who aren't really that interested in her that would go along with that arrangement.

 

Which is why I asked how old the guy was that your sister is friendly with. He sounds older in which case I doubt he cares about her much

[StrangeBehaviors]

Mycteria, I'll put it from a man's point of view. It's simple.

 

No heterosexual man, anywhere, wants to be your "friend".

 

Friend meaning buddy to go to the movies, dinner, ballgame with and then go your separate ways.

 

Any guy that leads you to believe they are ok with this ^ is a liar. They are only being friends with you to try and figure out how to f@#k you.

 

They all, ALL want to f#@k you. It occurs to them in the first 10 minutes of meeting you and is on their mind all of time from then on.

 

Any bargaining or rationalization you want to do with this-go ahead. It is fact though.

[carhill]

OP, presuming she's old enough to know what dating and sex are, she's old enough to date to get to know young men for future romantic potentials. Shall we presume that she will never date any young man until the distant future? If so, what is the pecking order of who amongst the 'friends' gets the first date? Valid questions, IMO. If the young man is to invest time and energy with her, respecting her boundary of 'friend's first', that boundary must be consistent. Having been a young person, and knowing many young people, boundaries and consistency aren't exactly universal amongst their demographic; generally exactly the opposite. So, at their age, presuming post-pubescent, I would say, realistically, they could be 'friends first' for a few weeks to a few months, at most. Inevitably, something will change and someone will likely get hurt. That's how things work at that age.

 

This opinion presumes lack of rigid religious and/or cultural controls on the activities of the young person in question.

[grkBoy]

Completely understood. Thanks!

 

I'm glad.

 

It's a shame though...since you seem like a charming and beautiful girl. The man who does snag you into a RL had better know how lucky he is.

[Greznog]

OP, presuming she's old enough to know what dating and sex are, she's old enough to date to get to know young men for future romantic potentials. Shall we presume that she will never date any young man until the distant future? If so, what is the pecking order of who amongst the 'friends' gets the first date? Valid questions, IMO. If the young man is to invest time and energy with her, respecting her boundary of 'friend's first', that boundary must be consistent. Having been a young person, and knowing many young people, boundaries and consistency aren't exactly universal amongst their demographic; generally exactly the opposite. So, at their age, presuming post-pubescent, I would say, realistically, they could be 'friends first' for a few weeks to a few months, at most. Inevitably, something will change and someone will likely get hurt. That's how things work at that age.

 

This opinion presumes lack of rigid religious and/or cultural controls on the activities of the young person in question.

 

 

This is absolutely true. Real talk only "meh" guys will be placed in the whole friends and maybe in 25 years we'll be in a relationship category.

 

The Guy won't have to wait, someone makes her sufficiently moist tomorrow and I 100% guarantee you there will be no long friendship.

 

Same thing with women who claim they don't put out early on.. until they meet Brad Pitt or George Clooney who is only in town for a few days.

 

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world don't bring up the fact that you don't find George Clooney or Brad Pitt attractive.

[joystickd]

Friends first lol. People with find ways to skip over dating. Dating is about getting to know people to find out if they are good enough to pursue something more with. There is so much ego with people these days they treat dating like the relationship, the relationship like marriage and marriage like the divorce.

 

Friends first is a way to be like "Hey I like you but I want to explore other options and if they are not good then maybe try things with you". It may not be like that all the time but its like that.

[joystickd]

This is absolutely true. Real talk only "meh" guys will be placed in the whole friends and maybe in 25 years we'll be in a relationship category.

 

The Guy won't have to wait, someone makes her sufficiently moist tomorrow and I 100% guarantee you there will be no long friendship.

 

Same thing with women who claim they don't put out early on.. until they meet Brad Pitt or George Clooney who is only in town for a few days.

 

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world don't bring up the fact that you don't find George Clooney or Brad Pitt attractive.

It doesn't have to be Clooney or Pitt. It can be just the average guy that triggers the right emotions and all these standards and rules fly right out the window

[RedRobin]

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world don't bring up the fact that you don't find George Clooney or Brad Pitt attractive.

 

Sorry... I don't find either of them attractive.

 

George Clooney is a narcisstic twit...

 

Brad Pitt is a cheater...

 

If either of them asked me out, I'd decline.

 

I've declined dates with men who look better than either one of them... (you'll have to take my word on that).

 

TBH, I find the younger Geoffrey Rush to be much sexier... Very intense and intelligent (albeit, not traditionally physically attractive). Although, I don't know much about his personal life.

 

I'd take the younger Liam Neeson too... Same reasons. Devoted husband and father too... very sad about his wife.

 

... but back on topic...

 

Me personally... I do not do anything physical whatsoever with my male friends... or my female friends either, for that matter.

 

To me, friends are friends...

 

I have many male friends of various degrees... from casual acquaintances, to ones I'd consider 'best' friends... to solid mentors.

 

I doubt any of them would manage romantic feelings for me or any woman and still 'orbit'...

 

However, they are not in their 20's either. It seems very few people (men or women) are capable of having legitimate friendships with the opposite sex at that age.... due to communication difficulties and maturity issues...

 

Most people's advice here would be for either party to be as honest and upfront as possible about your intentions... Whatever they are... friendship, relationship, casual sex... etc.

Edited August 30, 2012 by RedRobin

[oaks]

Would you be willing to be friends for a long time (years maybe) before developing an actual relationship? Keep in mind that you would be able to sleep with anyone else, date other girls, etc. So it's not like she's asking you to put your life on hold to wait for her.

 

No. I might agree to try to be friends, but not "friends and we might date later" or whatever. "Friends first" implies something 'after', and if I'm free to date other people it sounds a bit weird to have a friendship that's basically a trial to see if we'll date later.

 

Can you imagine how I introduce my friends-first friend to my girlfriend? Let's see... "This is Sarah, we're just being friends for now because she won't date me but we might give that a try later."

 

Wanting to make friends with someone is great, but "friends first" just sounds like wishy-washy can't-commit BS from someone who has issues.

[GorillaTheater]

No. I might agree to try to be friends, but not "friends and we might date later" or whatever. "Friends first" implies something 'after', and if I'm free to date other people it sounds a bit weird to have a friendship that's basically a trial to see if we'll date later.

 

Can you imagine how I introduce my friends-first friend to my girlfriend? Let's see... "This is Sarah, we're just being friends for now because she won't date me but we might give that a try later."

 

Wanting to make friends with someone is great, but "friends first" just sounds like wishy-washy can't-commit BS from someone who has issues.

 

I agree with this, and I'd put it a little more forcefully. If I have a sexual/romantic interest in a woman, I'm not going to settle for a realtional breadcrumb like "friend". I have other things to do.

[oaks]

I agree with this, and I'd put it a little more forcefully. If I have a sexual/romantic interest in a woman, I'm not going to settle for a realtional breadcrumb like "friend". I have other things to do.

 

Yes, sometimes that's the line I take when someone says "I can't offer you anything more than friends" or "let's just be friends"... I sometimes respond with something like "No thanks, I wanted to date you. Take care." and usually they're fine with that (and sometimes I suspect their offer of being friends wasn't sincere anyway). Maybe some of them go away thinking that I was only after one thing... but there's a limit to how many friends I can really deal with, although there's definitely a vacancy for a girlfriend.

 

I have made a few friends from women I dated, though. One is now basically a drinking buddy... we bitch about dating over a pint or three.

[RedRobin]

....

 

no more thread jacking on my part...

 

carry on!

[callingyouuu]

No. I might agree to try to be friends, but not "friends and we might date later" or whatever. "Friends first" implies something 'after', and if I'm free to date other people it sounds a bit weird to have a friendship that's basically a trial to see if we'll date later.

 

Can you imagine how I introduce my friends-first friend to my girlfriend? Let's see... "This is Sarah, we're just being friends for now because she won't date me but we might give that a try later."

 

Wanting to make friends with someone is great, but "friends first" just sounds like wishy-washy can't-commit BS from someone who has issues.

 

For the vast majority of situations, this is how I would feel, as well. I'd have to really know and trust a person for years before I'd begin to believe that she legitimately might consider a relationship with me in the future.

[Mycteria]

With sex? Only if he didn't really like her. A guy who is comfortable with some physical intimacy and/or sex without commitment/exclusivity isn't into the girl. A man who is into a woman properly does not want to risk her f***ing someone else and will try to tie her to him. Only guys who aren't really that interested in her that would go along with that arrangement.

 

Which is why I asked how old the guy was that your sister is friendly with. He sounds older in which case I doubt he cares about her much

He is only 20. He definitely cares about her.

 

This is a good point, thanks. My sister and I don't sleep around at all so I don't think he's too worried about her being with someone else. It definitely has nothing to do with either of us wanting to f*ck a bunch of other guys while we keep a guy on the backburner. It's just we both know we don't want relationships right now.

 

And to Greznog, it doesn't matter if Brad Pitt were to walk into my life tomorrow. I've had guys pursue me that I was extremely attracted to. But I don't want a committed relationship right now with anyone, no matter how attractive he is.

 

To StrangeBehaviors: you make it sound like men are ONLY interested in sex with women. Call me naive, but this seems like such an immature way of looking at it. Like I said, this outlook on things makes me think that many of the men here are not capable of developing deep relationships with other people. I mean yeah, maybe all my guy friends do want to f*ck me. But I would like to think that even if they know sex isn't going happen, that the other awesome things about our friendship are worth staying for. If a guy can't value me for things other than sex, then I don't even want to be friends with him. Much less have a relationship. Maybe I am just incredibly naive.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone!

[StrangeBehaviors]

He is only 20. He definitely cares about her.

 

This is a good point, thanks. My sister and I don't sleep around at all so I don't think he's too worried about her being with someone else. It definitely has nothing to do with either of us wanting to f*ck a bunch of other guys while we keep a guy on the backburner. It's just we both know we don't want relationships right now.

 

And to Greznog, it doesn't matter if Brad Pitt were to walk into my life tomorrow. I've had guys pursue me that I was extremely attracted to. But I don't want a committed relationship right now with anyone, no matter how attractive he is.

 

To StrangeBehaviors: you make it sound like men are ONLY interested in sex with women. Call me naive, but this seems like such an immature way of looking at it. Like I said, this outlook on things makes me think that many of the men here are not capable of developing deep relationships with other people. I mean yeah, maybe all my guy friends do want to f*ck me. But I would like to think that even if they know sex isn't going happen, that the other awesome things about our friendship are worth staying for. If a guy can't value me for things other than sex, then I don't even want to be friends with him. Much less have a relationship. Maybe I am just incredibly naive.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

I don't know if naive is the right word. Maybe you are just hopeful for something more and didn't know otherwise.

 

You may have fantastic qualities that any person, male or female, would want to have in a person they know. Hetero men do look for and appreciate these qualities.

 

With that said, the primary reason, or quality-if you want to look at it that way, they want to be near you is for sexual reasons.

"If a guy can't value me for things other than sex, then I don't want to even be friends with him...." They don't want to be "friends" with you either!

 

In the majority, the only reason guys are close "friends" with women is that they are trying to pursue a boyfriend/girlfriend sexual relationship with this person and haven't figured out how to get it there yet.

[callingyouuu]

With that said, the primary reason, or quality-if you want to look at it that way, they want to be near you is for sexual reasons.

 

For what it's worth, I have never felt like this, and I know a fair amount of guys who are the same way. I've met plenty of women with whom I've developed very healthy platonic relationships with no intention of going beyond that.

 

That said, it's worth noting that if I'm very attracted to her, it's harder for me to be close friends because of the mismatch in expectations about the relationship.

[Inflikted]

Honestly? I find the "friends first" approach to be preferable over the "date a stranger" one. Perhaps I'm just a bit bizarre compared to other guys, but I don't really know I'm "attracted" to a girl until I've gotten to know her at least a bit. I'm not the "Ooh, pretty girl over there, I should ask her out!" type. Plus, I'd rather skip the "icebreaker" crap and just be able to be comfortable being ourselves, out having a good time. That's more appealing to me than approaching and asking out a stranger.

 

Of course, preferably, I'd rather this be something that occurs naturally. It would seem a little strange to me to approach someone and say "Hey, let's be friends, and maybe later on, we'll date". That's... the only thing that really seems a little odd to me.

[Radu]

I would think that your sister is foolish, and quite childish like all girls her age are.

Depends on the age of the guy and what his aspirations are.

But generally straight female and straight male platonic friendships don't work out unless they both have quite a lot of self-control, not just because 'i said so' ... here is where the teen mind is shown.

If this was from an older woman [say 25] i would think she is either insecure, or has time to play games and is overall deluded [not games with me, but stupid games to rearrange human relationships that took millions of yrs of evolution to develop].

 

So what do you do if you're not ready for a relationship? Cut all guys out of your life whose friendships you value who you are attracted to?

Not necessarily.

Basically work on yourself, read, further your education, casual relationships.

 

For instance she has this one friend. They love each other very much. They kiss every now and then and are affectionate, but they know she isn't ready for a relationship. They are best friends and visit each other often even though they live far apart. But she doesn't want a relationship for a long time. She's only 18 and knows it would be pointless. I don't know what he wants. I'm pretty sure he wants a relationship. But he doesn't rush her and seems perfectly happy with the way things are right now. I'm sure he has other girls in town and wouldn't have a problem dating other women. But he loves my sister and stays close to her even though he knows she's not ready for a relationship. And he is NOT the beta male type. In fact I would say he's a pretty dominant and extremely intelligent/attractive guy.

In this situation i'd say it's one of the following :

- he has a need for her as a social pivot

- hopes to change her mind with time, he has nothing to lose.

 

And this is sort of about me too. I just got out of a 3 year relationship and I know that I need a good few years of being single before I get into another relationship if I want that relationship to have any chance of surviving. So does this mean that I am supposed to cut out all the guys from my life that I am attracted to and who are attracted to me? (Guys who would date me if they had the chance, and who I would like to date eventually too?) Is it asking to much to tell a guy that I want to be friends for a long time?

Don't set yourself a goal as a 'good few yrs'.

Set yourself goals based on what you want out of life, and how fast you heal.

 

When you get to see him neutrally, that means not to hate or love the ex, it means that you don't care about him/her anymore and you are ready to move on to another serious relationships.

Untill then, further improve your boundaries.

 

3 things i'd like to add though :

- having a casual relationship after a longer relationship, using it as a rebound conciously does work. As long as you know you are doing it and you avoid the pitfalls of the regular rebound.

To do this you need to be able to compartimentalize sex and love as 2 different things to some extent.

- if you want a family [biological] you need to factor in that.

I hate to say this but some guys take solace in the fact that they can conceive when they are 50+.

So plan ahead carefully and let this maybe even motivate you.

- the process of rationalization is one that can be turned to one's own advantage in dealing with love/hate for someone.

You can make him more undesirable to your mind [the ex], to push yourself past him.

[Jane2011]

I was planning to be friends first with the person I'm seeing now. I was really going to try being normal for a change (I'm a fast-moving woman in general; too fast, one could argue), but then he kissed me on our fourth date, and we've begun making out pretty regularly.

 

I think the longest I could do "just friends" with someone I'm attracted to (and who I know is attracted to me)...is maybe two months. And even then I'm just assuming I wouldn't get impatient, which I probably would.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Jane2011