When is it justified to have an affair?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

When your SO gives you the clear go-ahead like this 'honey, it's ok with me to have an affair'.

Anything less than this [and that with heavily monitoring of feelings], and you end up destroying the marriage, destroying the other person for many many yrs, and damaging the kids.

This would be for the western world, but even if you are in a different society doing something like this will have major implications on your spouse and children.

 

The problem for the most part is not the sex, but the loss of affection and the lying which goes against the ideea of marriage.

 

You mean Clooney made another movie about some guy who cannot find love or think it exists, only to be saved by the timely intervention of the ideal woman ... NO WAY !

 

Actually I'd blame that on the spouse withholding affection and the understanding (though told over and over in most cases) how it is affecting the marriage, and not expressing a real need to discuss or do something about it.

 

As for Up In The Air, obviously you did not see the movie nor have any idea what it is about or actually is saying. Nice try though.......

[Radu]

Just read the wiki on it, i was pretty spot on with it.

 

Clooney's films are all the same.

[Lostinlife4now]

NEVER EVER NEVER EVER........

 

Been there done that...AND WILL NEVER DO THAT/IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhh....that felt good to write and read!!!! TaDa......

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Just read the wiki on it, i was pretty spot on with it.

 

Clooney's films are all the same.

 

Wrong wiki page. Anyone who thought that is what it is about is wrong. It is that there is more to life then what he was doing or his goal.

[soccerrprp]

Answer to the original question: NEVER.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Answer to the original question: NEVER.

 

Isn't life so simple when the world is only Black & White???? guess however you did answer the question asked in the thread......

[carhill]

I think that's (the 'never' answer) valid. The 'when is it justified to xxx' can also be applied to many other aspects of relationships which aren't being discussed in this thread, equally as important and equally as valid. That's part of why I backed off my original position, for balance.

[woinlove]

I understand that people who choose to cheat may think if they are honest that their spouse may choose not to stay married to them or there may be some other consequences for their actions. But, that also means that by being dishonest, one is effectively removing that choice from one's spouse and tricking them to stay married to you under false pretences.

 

Is that justified? I would argue no. Even if the other spouse is equally disrespectful and dishonest, I don't think that justifies doing the same.

 

If someone says to their spouse, for example, that they cannot remain faithful and they think their outside romantic/sexual life is their own business and will not be further discussed with the spouse, then I would say they are being honest (although maybe not respectful or caring) and the other spouse can decide based on that. But, deception and making the spouse believe one still has a monogamous or closed M, no I don't think that is justified in a country where divorce requested by either spouse is legal.

[woinlove]

Yes and no. (Oh oh...I see a long thread coming after people respond to this! )

 

If the cheating is kept secret and the family/wife never finds out about it, then the family continue and perhaps is happier. The wife no longer gets bothered about sex, and the husband has his sex. Meanwhile, the children still have both parents. If ONLY sex is the issue, then the family still stays together. The parents are happy and can be good parents. If sex is an issue and the husband (as an example) is constantly filled with resentment, then he will be more angry with everyone including the children. The wife also knows about the issue and is more tense and less happy.

 

Divorce would be worse in comparison to private cheating because the family would be split and the children would be marred by the breakup.

 

Yes, one could argue that the happiness is built upon a lie, but in reality no one knows that there is a lie. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Just another perspective certain to cause a discussion.

 

One can do all kinds of bad things and try to keep them secret. Is keeping them secret the important part to you, and not the action itself?

 

One takes the risk that somehow the spouse will find out. But, beyond that risk, you have tricked them. If you are a really good trickster, does that justify dishonest and disloyal behavior? I don't think so.

 

Does your opinion on how justified one is to cheat depend on how good a liar or cheater they are? Because if they are really bad at lying, their spouse is almost certain to find out. Then, you might argue they are not justified in cheating, but a really good liar would be.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

One can do all kinds of bad things and try to keep them secret. Is keeping them secret the important part to you, and not the action itself?

 

One takes the risk that somehow the spouse will find out. But, beyond that risk, you have tricked them. If you are a really good trickster, does that justify dishonest and disloyal behavior? I don't think so.

 

Does your opinion on how justified one is to cheat depend on how good a liar or cheater they are? Because if they are really bad at lying, their spouse is almost certain to find out. Then, you might argue they are not justified in cheating, but a really good liar would be.

 

Who says they are lying? Some spouse's choose to stick their head in the sand and not ask or care less.

 

I come back to where the spouse knows sex is a huge known issue in the marriage (and they did start with a good, varied, interesting love life), is happy to stay the course, had the other spouse beg, cajole, talk 'til blue in the face and refused counseling and just went along their merry way saying no to sex........ And the spouse goes off and finds an FB, instead of that weekly golf game or something and no one is the wiser.

 

And yep if he/she falls in love, well them's the break!!!!!:laugh:

[woinlove]

Who says they are lying? Some spouse's choose to stick their head in the sand and not ask or care less.

 

One isn't cheating unless one is in an R where there is an agreement or understanding of monogamy. If the couple have another agreement which allows outside romantic and/or sexual relationships, no problem, no dishonesty. But that isn't what this thread is discussing.

 

As to lies, I don't distinguish between lies of omission and direct lies - makes no difference to me. If one is acting in a way so as to make one's spouse believe something that is not true, that is deception.

[Mr. Lucky]

Who says they are lying? Some spouse's choose to stick their head in the sand and not ask or care less.

 

I come back to where the spouse knows sex is a huge known issue in the marriage (and they did start with a good, varied, interesting love life), is happy to stay the course, had the other spouse beg, cajole, talk 'til blue in the face and refused counseling and just went along their merry way saying no to sex........ And the spouse goes off and finds an FB, instead of that weekly golf game or something and no one is the wiser.

Again, you never addressed the basic contradiction in your position. I'd guess that you'd choose the "FB" course because the ability to express your sexuality with another human being is very important to you. You previously said such actions allow you to "actually feel alive and human". No argument from me there.

 

But why doesn't that importance and value merit a discussion of the alternatives - either an above the table arrangement or divorce - with your spouse? You seem to be implying that your spouse has already guessed that you're pursuing one of those paths anyway, so why not talk about it? "If we don't move towards X then I will do Y and that will mean Z" seems like a pretty simple discussion...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetheButterfly]

A friend of mine is considering it. She is so frustrated at her husbands lack of effort and performance. They have talked and talked about it. Nothing ever changes.

 

This is meant to be a unscientific poll.

 

I don't think it's ever justified to break one's word with the person one promised to be faithful to and love. Love is action, not just a feeling.

 

It would be great if your friend could consider the following actions which does not include breaking her word:

 

1. Tell him how she feels and see if he takes steps to resolve the issue.

2. Separate and tell him why. See what happens.

3. Divorce.

4. Discuss mutually agreeing to change vows, in order to allow an "open" marriage, though this is very risky and could lead to 3. anyways.

 

Again, I don't think there's ever a justification to break one's word. A person who is not faithful to his or her word is not trustworthy. Trust is priceless. There are way too many people who break their word and who hurt others who trust in them. It is really sad when a person's trust dies because they see that another person's word means nothing.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Again, you never addressed the basic contradiction in your position. I'd guess that you'd choose the "FB" course because the ability to express your sexuality with another human being is very important to you. You previously said such actions allow you to "actually feel alive and human". No argument from me there.

 

But why doesn't that importance and value merit a discussion of the alternatives - either an above the table arrangement or divorce - with your spouse? You seem to be implying that your spouse has already guessed that you're pursuing one of those paths anyway, so why not talk about it? "If we don't move towards X then I will do Y and that will mean Z" seems like a pretty simple discussion...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Actually many have said as much on LS and been ignored or little change does happen. You're right that they don't say I am going to look to have an FB, but they do intimate that fact. I again will state that these are not men or women looking for affairs, they happen by accident (and I know that will create a deluge of negative posts:p:laugh:)......

[woinlove]

Actually many have said as much on LS and been ignored or little change does happen. You're right that they don't say I am going to look to have an FB, but they do intimate that fact. I again will state that these are not men or women looking for affairs, they happen by accident (and I know that will create a deluge of negative posts:p:laugh:)......

 

Functioning adults don't choose to develop relationships by accident. Some people are great at denial though, but not much of a way to live, even putting aside the pain they cause to others. Life is sweet once one realizes the power one has, to choose to do what one wants. Too bad people who go through life acting like they have no choice don't realize this.

[Mr. Lucky]

You're right that they don't say I am going to look to have an FB, but they do intimate that fact.

Sounds like a wife that assumes her husband is OK without sex and a husband that assumes his wife is OK with him having sex with other people.

 

What could possibly go wrong with that set-up ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Michael Johnson]

Actually many have said as much on LS and been ignored or little change does happen. You're right that they don't say I am going to look to have an FB, but they do intimate that fact. I again will state that these are not men or women looking for affairs, they happen by accident (and I know that will create a deluge of negative posts:p:laugh:)......

 

So cheaters trip and fall on an OM/OW's genitals?

[MrWindupBird]

End the marriage. If you're thinking about an affair, at least separate for a while and figure it out. This lessens the blow of whatever occurs, and it'll give you a fresh restarting point if you decide your spouse is what's right after all.