When is it justified to have an affair?

[Got it]

Great response. Too be honest I was expecting a few more people saying it was justified under "blank" conditions. Like where they agreed to a open marriage or whatever.

 

I hope the pole keeps going.

 

Why has she told my GF and I and not her husband. Before recently out of total frustration. She trusts our confidentiality and does not want to hurt him. He has been so good to her in many many ways. Financially with her teenager etc. She says the lack of sex and the bad sex is not enough reason to divorce him. They cuddle and kiss in public. According to her he is basic and selfish in the bed room. She has always had to approach him for sex. They have talked it out many times and no change. She thinks he just can't do any better. Wham bamm, done, roll over and sleep. That is all he does. She is left with no orgasm and begging for completion. We are talking about a very sexual female and a low sex drive male.

 

A few years ago she had a few secret affairs with other men which will remain secret, then stopped. Now admits she may try with another woman.

Very recently she told her husband and he agreed if he could watch. She said he could watch but not touch the other woman.

 

I agree, if they still can't fix it then split up. At least agree on a open marriage or threesomes then split. There are two teenage kids envolved, one each from previous relationships. I believe he would do almost anything to keep her. Maybe allow an open marriage. Just my belief.

 

Is sex within a marriage with someone other then your partner and of the same sex more, (in this case another woman) more justified then with another man? Her and her husband appear to think so.

 

I believe she is at the point where she will try with another man again too.

 

I think therapy would be a good place for them to try and address these issues. An open marriage may be the right compromise for them if sexually there are no improvements. Since her husband is open to same sex, starting off with that subject may be a good launching pad for her to discuss why she wants someone else in the bedroom. I sympathize with the poor sex and the lack of addressing/changing. But if she wants to stay in the marriage she does need to address it. I disagree with the notion that poor sex is not a good enough reason to divorce but it is an individual decision.

 

I would ask her if the good outweighs the bad or vice versa? What would be the perfect solution for her? Would her husband becoming more attentive in the bedroom be the preferred solution for her or is it adding another person? I think that answer really would help her figure out if divorce or marriage counseling is the better avenue.

 

Yes she can choose to have an affair but she needs to look at the risk of exposure, the aftermath, emotional hardship, etc. tied to it. That is a huge gamble and needs to weigh that accordingly. Is her marriage/her husband worth gambling on?

[jwi71]

Of course there are circumstances when it's ok to have an A.

 

1) beginning a relationship with another while awaiting D proceedings. Some jurisdictions take forever to finalize a D and waiting for their completion may not be humanly possible. Yes, I know, it's more semantics than anything but it counts. Technically.

 

2) Your spouse is horrifically injured below the waist and sexual intercourse is no longer physically possible. Given that circumstance I would argue its better to lie to the spouse (to prevent mental anguish) and seek out NSA partner on the side. A compensated one perhaps.

 

3) A long term caregiver of a terminally ill spouse in hospice who, for medical reasons other than physical impairment, cannot perform sexually. I won't even address the emotional needs of the caregiver of a "hopelessly comatose spouse".

 

That's three, well maybe two and a half, where an A is perfectly acceptable to me.

[MissBee]

A friend of mine is considering it. She is so frustrated at her husbands lack of effort and performance. They have talked and talked about it. Nothing ever changes.

 

This is meant to be a unscientific poll.

 

In such a case...what would be the end goal in mind? As in, have you decided your marriage is not salvageable and you're gonna move on or what?

 

If you're with an unsatisfactory partner...turn it into an open marriage (if you for whatever reason don't want to divorce), where you can live your life and get your needs met without having to hide it too much OR cut yourself loose.

[sally4sara]

Cheating is never justified. But it isn't simply the sex; it is betrayal.

 

I get the prickly situation your friend is in; it would be hella frustrating. He knows she isn't satisfied. She knows he isn't making an effort. But neither of them have found an agreeable solution.

 

It might be time for ultimatums and hard questions/answers. She needs to state clearly her wants and how big these wants are and what she intends to do if he continues to not be a productive partner in solving this issue. She needs to really consider his input about why he is struggling to make a change about this. It may be that this relationship needs to change to accept different boundaries or end entirely, but cheating isn't your friend's only option.

[StandingO]

Well, our married super attractive friend admitted to me a couple weeks ago she had a sex with a neighbour. Same sex. She is not a lesbian but admits she has a touch of bi in her. They are coming over in few minutes. When she gets drunk she talks. I have this fear she will blab out to her husband that she ****ed another woman. This should be an interesting night.

[Clockwork]

There is no justifying it. Be honest with yourself first and then you can be honest with others. having an affair is being honest with neither. If you aren't happy you should leave because then you have options.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and we always jump and say no to these questions, but how sad that is. An unsatisfying sex life when you aren't asking for a whole lot and have discussed it over and over and over to me is not acceptable.

 

Is it never acceptable or understandable? Jwi71 came up with some scenarios which I would agree are valid.

 

What bothers me over and over if how the husband (in this case), who sucks in bed, never wants to do it, has been told over and over that this is a major issue has the moral high ground when the wife has had enough and proposes a solution.

 

Yep open the marriage (one way) is an option, but how about the "don't ask, don't tell" option, where you are discreet and take minimal time from the family and spouse and actually feel alive and human????

 

Carhill below referenced a great thread and the thing is that in 3.5 years nothing has changed for JamesM (despite his protestations) and I just tear my hair out and feel so sad for these people asking very little from their spouses but being condemned as the bad person for suggesting affairs when they have reached the end of their rope.

 

Again I am talking parameters of functioning normal expectations..... I.e. sex 1-3x's/wk, mutually satisfying, not too kinky (unless both wanting it). I say this because my opinion would be different if the OP said her friend wanted sex in excess of 1X/day, was into BSM or kinks that he wasn't aware of or on board with and expected multiple O's, circus tricks and hours per session....... Heck that would be too much for me.....:laugh:

[Nyla]

It is never justified to have an affair.

 

It is, however, understandable in some circumstances.

 

Understanding poor choices does not excuse them or make them okay.

 

I hope that other members can see the difference.

 

A criminal stealing for his hungry children is understandable, but still wrong and against the law.

 

I can understand a WS cheating because of lack of sex or emotional distance, if they have tried to discuss the issues with their spouse to no avail. The cheating is still not morally justified in these cases.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yep open the marriage (one way) is an option, but how about the "don't ask, don't tell" option, where you are discreet and take minimal time from the family and spouse and actually feel alive and human????

An option implies that one is selecting amongst choices. Does your "don't ask, don't tell" scenario assume consent from a spouse that simply wants to be shielded from the details? Because presumptively deciding that your spouse doesn't need to know is just plain ol' fashioned cheating...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Toodamnpragmatic]

An option implies that one is selecting amongst choices. Does your "don't ask, don't tell" scenario assume consent from a spouse that simply wants to be shielded from the details? Because presumptively deciding that your spouse doesn't need to know is just plain ol' fashioned cheating...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Again we can agree to disagree on this contentious issue. You will regardless of what scenario is presented call it cheating (and I really can't disagree as you are right). The point is seldom is the one cheated upon held under the scrutiny as the one who tries everything to address and fix the situation and is ignored, stonewalled and frankly laughed at.

[Mr. Lucky]

The point is seldom is the one cheated upon held under the scrutiny as the one who tries everything to address and fix the situation and is ignored, stonewalled and frankly laughed at.

I not only understand but, in my first marriage, lived it. And then, irony of ironies, my xW had an A which she later claimed was only physical, no emotions attached.

 

But I don't understand the end game in the situation you previously described. If it's worth jumping through all the hoops and taking all the risks - most of which have been well-documented in these forums - to step outside your M for sex in in order to "actually feel alive and human", then why doesn't divorce bring equal value?

 

Mr. Lucky

[StandingO]

Well, for the most part she kept in under control last night.

 

She has explained to my GF and I that she is so tired of the fight and hence over time has now lost the attraction for her husband. I think it is too late to get their sex life back on track.

 

I think her venture in bed with another woman is just the start. I am now at the point where I think she should get a divorce.

 

I am convinced she would do my GF and I at the same time. She needs to find another man. Her husband needs to come to grips that he is going to losing this wife. I don't like to say it but if the will is no longer in her, she is willing to start messing around again, and hubby can satisfy her, I think it is only path this relationship is going to go. Personally, I agree it would have been best for her to leave before cheating but i do understand her frustration with him. My goodness most men would give their arm to have sex with her so he should have done something about this long ago.

[Kelemvor]

I would gander that if we posed this question in one or two other forums where affairs are more prevalent, you wouldn't get such a vociferous response.

 

Of course, most people with affairs inherently justify them in ways that make themselves less culpable to the act itself. I'm purposefully leaving out the open relationships and swinging couples because I honestly can't comprehend being ok seeing my wife copulating with a stranger or friend that I might see at work the next day. That's just me.

 

All that being said, and coming from someone with no history of cheating who stayed in a miserable marriage and actually thought of divorce earlier on before I had an affair, knowing that if I stayed in the marriage longer, I would be tempted to have said affair... It's never justified. I think it's always a poor decision and the ultimate rejection of the marriage. If you are a conscionable individual, it will always torment you. If you are a relatively honest person (in spite of the deception), then your doubly hampered by the future responsibility to be honest with future partners about your faults in previous relationships or marriages. It just sucks all around and my experience has been that absolutely NOTHING positive comes from it, whatsoever. I don't care what the "pro-affair" people say.

[scarlett1]

A friend of mine is considering it. She is so frustrated at her husbands lack of effort and performance. They have talked and talked about it. Nothing ever changes.

 

This is meant to be a unscientific poll.

Affairs are personel and varied. Sometimes like mine they just happen and to try and justify motives while always is good refections when emotions are at play is futal. It always reverts to one single reason. If

one is content, happy and really commited to their spouse it just does not

happen. My affair has not reached the physical level sexually but the fact

remains that it had not been a lLR it miight have. I value the relationship

and know that if I loved my husband it would have never gotten to the

intense emotional level with my new love that it did. It opened my heart

again to knowing that I really should become single to be able to seek out

what is really missing in my life. The desision to divorce must happen soon or I will remain miserable in this state of uncertainty..............

[JamesM]

Carhill below referenced a great thread and the thing is that in 3.5 years nothing has changed for JamesM (despite his protestations)

 

No protestations. Things are MUCH better. Someday I will start a thread about how I am not in a sexless marriage anymore (and yes, I know it can change).

 

It is never justified to have an affair.

 

It is, however, understandable in some circumstances.

 

Understanding poor choices does not excuse them or make them okay.

 

I hope that other members can see the difference.

 

A criminal stealing for his hungry children is understandable, but still wrong and against the law.

 

I can understand a WS cheating because of lack of sex or emotional distance, if they have tried to discuss the issues with their spouse to no avail. The cheating is still not morally justified in these cases.

 

This is the best response IMO. It is never justified but if we are honest, then we can understand why someone chose an affair. To condemn everyone who has an affair without understanding the desperation they felt is incorrect. However, to justify an affair because of the situation is also wrong. While we can see why someone chose an affair, we should also be able to see that this response to the situation was the worst one.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

No protestations. Things are MUCH better. Someday I will start a thread about how I am not in a sexless marriage anymore (and yes, I know it can change).

 

 

 

This is the best response IMO. It is never justified but if we are honest, then we can understand why someone chose an affair. To condemn everyone who has an affair without understanding the desperation they felt is incorrect. However, to justify an affair because of the situation is also wrong. While we can see why someone chose an affair, we should also be able to see that this response to the situation was the worst one.

 

Happy to hear. I read through bits and pieces of the thread and saw many names from the past (and my early posts).

 

And I agree and disagree with the response. Yes affair are wrong, however to steal the title of an apropos book, I see it more and more in 50 Shades of Gray......

[Mr. Lucky]

And I agree and disagree with the response. Yes affair are wrong, however to steal the title of an apropos book, I see it more and more in 50 Shades of Gray......

Someone in an established marriage - history together, kids, house, assets, etc. - that turns sexless might be viewed as having only bad choices - divorce, stick it out sexless or cheat (going to rule out open marriage since most spouses wouldn't agree).

 

In almost all cases, cheating seems like the worst of the bad choices...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JamesM]

Someone in an established marriage - history together, kids, house, assets, etc. - that turns sexless might be viewed as having only bad choices - divorce, stick it out sexless or cheat (going to rule out open marriage since most spouses wouldn't agree).

 

In almost all cases, cheating seems like the worst of the bad choices...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes and no. (Oh oh...I see a long thread coming after people respond to this! )

 

If the cheating is kept secret and the family/wife never finds out about it, then the family continue and perhaps is happier. The wife no longer gets bothered about sex, and the husband has his sex. Meanwhile, the children still have both parents. If ONLY sex is the issue, then the family still stays together. The parents are happy and can be good parents. If sex is an issue and the husband (as an example) is constantly filled with resentment, then he will be more angry with everyone including the children. The wife also knows about the issue and is more tense and less happy.

 

Divorce would be worse in comparison to private cheating because the family would be split and the children would be marred by the breakup.

 

Yes, one could argue that the happiness is built upon a lie, but in reality no one knows that there is a lie. Ignorance is bliss.

 

Just another perspective certain to cause a discussion.

[carhill]

After a long participation in the 'cause' thread, I'm going to redact my position here regarding 'justified'. I think that is too strong a word to describe a disclosed infidelity, as it imbues an air of good or legitimate responsibility by the BS for the act and choice which the BS played no part in.

 

Adjective

Having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason: "the doctors were justified in treating her".

 

There's definitely gray to debate, but 'good' or 'legitimate' reasons IMO do not match up well enough with the dynamic to have traction for justification.

[MissBee]

A friend of mine is considering it. She is so frustrated at her husbands lack of effort and performance. They have talked and talked about it. Nothing ever changes.

 

This is meant to be a unscientific poll.

 

If you're married to a man like this...I'd imagine you'd want the M to be over.

 

Having an affair I guess is one way to end things.

 

But for me, I see no point in dating/being married and cheating and then saying it's because this person is so bad. Tell them plain and simple you're done/you're going elsewhere.

 

But it's just a mess to bring someone else into your mess with you. If you read the OW/OM board, so many single girls and guys get caught up with a married person looking to escape their marital dissatisfaction by having an affair but who ultimately are STILL in a relationship with someone else and who aren't leaving. Most of these married people seem to have no interest in divorcing, or NEVER attempted any other logical route to dissolve/fix their marriages. Their marriages aren't over, they're just having an affair and giving false promises to the people they're in an A with. That's not right. It's like rebounding....except way worse because you're still in this other relationship. Rebounding is a terrible thing many times because it's someone not over their ex, caught in drama with their ex and using someone else as a a springboard to move on or worse toy with their ex...then when they have their fill, they move on. Having an affair often works in the same way. Your spouse is making you dissatisfied, but instead of tying up your life and fixing it, you run into the arms of another, complicating everything 10 X more.

[JamesM]

This is so evil that I can't even read it without feeling ill in my stomach...

 

Sorry! It was meant to be a different perspective.

 

Yes she can cheat and keep it secret and yes there are odds that he will never catch her but the truth is that from that moment she will be holding him hostage with a marriage which is a lie.

 

Okay, I assumed the man was cheating and in a sexless marriage. No matter who...if the BS is not aware of the cheating, then she or he is in no pain. The marriage may be a lie but for the BS it is still the truth. And if the husband is getting sex elsewhere without giving up his live for someone else, then the marriage may actually be a happier despite of the "lie."

 

 

She will be always afraid that he could find out... life is secrecy is not easy... and when you play with the trust in a relationship you are being not only a selfish person who only cares about your own needs but also an horrible mother that put at risk the stability of the family...

 

Again, I am assuming that the affair is never discovered and the resentment for the lack of sex is gone. I do agree that in cases where the emotions of love are given to the OP, then complete love cannot be given to the BS. However, if the affair is fulfilling something that is missing in the marriage, then it is quite possible that everyone is happier.

 

Sorry but if your advice to people is to cheat their partners you are a price to get yourself! (being sarcastic obviously....)

 

No, I gave an opinion...not advice.

 

There are always other ways to solve things than cheating, you can always try to talk it trough, get more inventive in bed, etc...

 

Yes, we assume that all of this has been done with no solutions. If one has reached the point of divorce, then cheating may keep everyone happy.

 

 

or you can decide to go in a open relationship (so the other can also enjoy the freedom and not only you...)...

 

Yes, you can.

 

or if nothing of the before is working have a civilized divorce with your partner and then do with your life what you want...

 

Perhaps.

 

but cheating is the worse thing you can do to someone (I know that by my own experience) and while you can get a friendly divorce with little impact to your children when you cheat if he catch you the divorce won't be friendly believe me!

 

I am sorry for your pain. I don't intend to open wounds. Remember when I said that cheating may actually be helpful, I am assuming that it stays a secret. I don't believe it is as difficult to keep it secret as you think. I read of so many who have kept it for years. And getting sex outside of the marriage may not mean that a relationship develops with the other person...simply sex.

 

Divorce will break up the family no matter how friendly. A secret affair that is never discovered could actually keep it together.

 

Just a perspective. Not advocating it.

[Mr. Lucky]

Divorce would be worse in comparison to private cheating because the family would be split and the children would be marred by the breakup.

Two observations:

 

1). "private cheating" is one of those "jumbo shrimp" oxymorons as it involves another person whose discretion can't be guaranteed. The fact that the disclosure day has its own name - D Day - should be proof enough.

 

2). Divorce doesn't necessarily mar children and can in fact provide a healthier environment than disconnected parents.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Anyone see Up In The Air? I liked that storyline and certainly gave me pause to think.

 

I am so so tired of trying to debate affairs with people so closed minded. I at one time agreed 100% it was Black or white, now however I do say grey. Do I agree whole heartedley that cheating is okay????? Definitely not.

[Aedra]

Most are going to flat out scream its wrong...and not take into account set boundaries and cultural attitudes. Some cultures view affairs very differently from the modern western society. Since I presume your friend is in a modern western marriage, I think she she cannot justify having an affair; she has to be honest and direct about her dissatisfaction and if it cannot resolved, needs to leave.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Aedra

[Radu]

A friend of mine is considering it. She is so frustrated at her husbands lack of effort and performance. They have talked and talked about it. Nothing ever changes.

 

This is meant to be a unscientific poll.

 

When your SO gives you the clear go-ahead like this 'honey, it's ok with me to have an affair'.

Anything less than this [and that with heavily monitoring of feelings], and you end up destroying the marriage, destroying the other person for many many yrs, and damaging the kids.

This would be for the western world, but even if you are in a different society doing something like this will have major implications on your spouse and children.

 

The problem for the most part is not the sex, but the loss of affection and the lying which goes against the ideea of marriage.

 

Anyone see Up In The Air? I liked that storyline and certainly gave me pause to think.

You mean Clooney made another movie about some guy who cannot find love or think it exists, only to be saved by the timely intervention of the ideal woman ... NO WAY !