Men: Are you alpha? Beta? a hybrid? Do you think these labels are stupid?

[Taramere]

I used to think they were stupid labels, but I've read some of what posters on here have written (very knowledgeable and thoughtful posters not people just being provocative) and I'm not so sure anymore. I think it's possible to be generally one or the other, but still have alpha traits or beta traits in certain circumstances. Much like a woman could be "feminine" by wearing dresses and painting her nails, but "masculine" in that she likes to sports or fixing cars.

 

Yeah...most people are alpha in some ways and beta in others.

 

I remember a bit in a book - Bonfire of the Vanities, I think - where a character's talking about elderly men who lose their dignity by letting younger women at parties know that they're somebody rich/important. They have to give their dignity away like that in order to get attention from the younger women.

 

They're not the only ones who do that by any means. People do it all the time. They buy expensive props to let others know "I'm a somebody...I'm important..."...and the more people fall into that consumerist approach to showing how "alpha", they are the less likely it is that they'll be able to walk into a room with no props at all and command any presence.

[EasyHeart]

Humans aren't pack animals, so I've never found the alpha/beta/gamma analysis helpful since it simply doesn't reflect reality. I've found Rachel Wiseman's Kingpin/Wannabe/Outcast/Maverick analysis to be more helpful in day-to-day life and team building. Dunno if it has any scientific validity, but it works in practical matters.

 

This alpha/beta nonsense seems to mostly be used as a technique for people trying to fake confidence. But, like with anything else, you can only fake something for so long. It might work for tricking women into ONS, but it's not going to have any real effect on your life.

 

Yeah...most people are alpha in some ways and beta in others.

 

I remember a bit in a book - Bonfire of the Vanities, I think - where a character's talking about elderly men who lose their dignity by letting younger women at parties know that they're somebody rich/important. They have to give their dignity away like that in order to get attention from the younger women.

 

They're not the only ones who do that by any means. People do it all the time. They buy expensive props to let others know "I'm a somebody...I'm important..."...and the more people fall into that consumerist approach to showing how "alpha", they are the less likely it is that they'll be able to walk into a room with no props at all and command any presence.

I agree, and I think it's an example of the general rule that confident people don't have to brag. Really smart people don't use two-dollar words; really rich people drive Fords; really sexy people usually dress conservatively, etc.

[Taramere]

I've found Rachel Wiseman's Kingpin/Wannabe/Outcast/Maverick analysis to be more helpful in day-to-day life and team building. Dunno if it has any scientific validity, but it works in practical matters.

 

I thought that sounded really interesting, so I looked it up to find out more...but the only stuff I could find related specifically to teachers' assessments of different parenting styles (and the relationships those parents had with the school). Have you any links on more generalised discussions about it?

[Emilia]

Please because I couldn't find it either

[Taramere]

Please because I couldn't find it either

 

Here's a link to a preview of Rachel Wiseman's book (some pages missing). It sounds as though she's geared towards analysing roles in the parenting context (and from the school's perspective) but I suppose even those of us who aren't parents would probably be able to predict which role we'd tend to fall into if we were.

 

Queen Bee Moms & Kingpin Dads; Dealing with the Difficult Parents in Your Child's Life

[Emilia]

thanks Taramere!

[EasyHeart]

Here's a link to a preview of Rachel Wiseman's book (some pages missing). It sounds as though she's geared towards analysing roles in the parenting context (and from the school's perspective) but I suppose even those of us who aren't parents would probably be able to predict which role we'd tend to fall into if we were.

 

Queen Bee Moms & Kingpin Dads; Dealing with the Difficult Parents in Your Child's Life

Yes, that's the book I was thinking of. She also wrote an earlier book on teens & young adults. Both are worth reading.

[IcedEarth]

The labels are asinine and tells you something about those that trust in their validity.

[AlexCross]

I don't believe in the whole Alpha Beta thing. I think it was designed to validate ones ego and to put a stigma on ones behavioral traits. Well times have changed and people changed. Dating isnt what it used to be so I think the whol alpha male thing is severely antiquated.

[IcedEarth]

There's a good simple anecdote about this:

 

A) There are two guys at a party, one is gregarious and boisterous and attracts attention due to his presence.

 

B) The other sits quietly in the back, confident and observing the room and talking with one close friend.

 

Which is the alpha male? Most people would probably say A, but that's bull****. The true "alpha" doesn't need to be a loud jackass.

 

Another example would be a big meathead with huge muscles and a skinny guy trained in mixed martial arts styles. The meathead LOOKS to be the alpha, but in a fight the unimposing guy would destroy him.

 

So really all I'm saying is don't judge a book by it's cover. Those who call themselves Alpha do so to pretend they're tough.

 

Those who call themselves beta are trying to justify their lack of confidence or whatever.

[Trimmer]

I don't believe in the wholeAlpha Beta thing. I think it was designed to validate ones ego and to put a stigma on ones behavioral traits. Well times have changed and people changed. Dating isnt what it used to be so I think the whol alpha male thing is severely antiquated.

Actually, the terms were "designed" by scientific researchers to describe the pack behavior of social animals, like canines and non-human primates, and they generally continue to serve their original purpose in those contexts.

 

We could argue all day about whether their application to modern human behavior is a misappropriation (I happen to think so), but they were not ever intended for that purpose.

[Shadow21999]

Of course. Just define Alpha. If it means being dominant socially, then there are the men who are the life of the party. The ones, who when they laugh, the world laughs with them. Then there are the ones who are wealthy. If being Alpha meant being rich and having power, then those men are Alphas. If it means being successful with women, then there are the Steven Stiflers of the world who can laid by just about anyone. It all just depends on the situation. Simple creatures like wolves have simple roles, and being the Alpha male of the pack, it is clearly defined what is expected of you. In more complex creatures such as humans, it varies from situation to situation.

 

Sorry about the American Pie reference, it just came up.

[EasyHeart]

I think a lot of you seem to be confusing alpha/beta with extrovert/introvert.

[IcedEarth]

I think a lot of you seem to be confusing alpha/beta with extrovert/introvert.

 

It's the #1, the descriptions are apt for the term though.

[soccerrprp]

I'm just right... Just wish I could find a classy lady that recognized that...

[RickyLovesLucy]

Yes, exactly. What inspired me to create this thread is that my new boyfriend is alpha in some ways and non-alpha (beta?) in others.

 

He's totally dominant/alpha in his career, in bed, and logistically (leads the way, chooses the table, drives the car).

 

But he's more accommodating/beta in the relationship. He works around my schedule, lets me plan whatever I want to do and goes along with it happily, reads me (now - not at first) and adjusts to my desires for affection and closeness, openly shows me his phone and e-mail and lets me play around with it if I want to.

 

But I actually love the mix. I was so wowed yet daunted by confident, dashing him at first. Now that he's being sweeter and more accommodating, I feel reassured and safer.

In other words, he is a knight to your queen.

[Ruby Slippers]

In other words, he is a knight to your queen.

That makes sense.

 

I just find myself wondering if this can be real, if it will last. I'm doing my best to enjoy it as long as it does!

[Ruby Slippers]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sometimes amazes me how women who have been dating a while are so "surprised" when they experience a positive trait from a guy for the first time like it's the rarest thing on the planet...when a lot of average guys take that stuff for granted like it's nothing special. But I'm happy you finally found it.

Most of the guys I've dated in the past who are very accommodating are also on the insecure side.

 

And the guys who are dominant in work, life, and bed tend to be insensitive.

 

But this guy is a hybrid of mostly good qualities. He takes charge of his life and leads the way, but lets me steer the ship on the softer stuff.

 

For example, I told him last night about this block party I won tickets to for Saturday night. The host is a local brewery, and there are gonna be some cool, progressive bands there. He doesn't drink, so I wasn't sure if a craft beer party would appeal to him - but I thought he might enjoy the music. So I told him I definitely want to go, and said if he wants to come with me, that'll be great - but if not, I'll ask a friend.

 

He goes, "Who would you rather go with - me or your friend?" I said, "I'd rather go with yooou - but I'll have fun either way." And he goes, "Then let's go!"

[SteveC80]

These labels are so stupid,women dont have these labels they get overanalyzed on like guys do

 

Plus any women who seems obsessed with finding an alpha to me screams daddy issues and is looking for another daddy to take control of her life

[Woggle]

If you are constantly worried about being alpha or beta or whatever then you are not what is commonly considered to be an alpha. Just be who you are and people can take it or leave it.

[Ruby Slippers]

These labels are so stupid,women dont have these labels they get overanalyzed on like guys do

 

Plus any women who seems obsessed with finding an alpha to me screams daddy issues and is looking for another daddy to take control of her life

No, but I think oaks made a good point - men get classified into groups like alpha and beta, and women get classified according to the 1-10 scale - which is also stupid. Why are men so obsessed with getting a 10?

[IcedEarth]

No, but I think oaks made a good point - men get classified into groups like alpha and beta, and women get classified according to the 1-10 scale - which is also stupid. Why are men so obsessed with getting a 10?

 

They shouldn't be, 10's are nonexistent. A ten would require a woman to have no flaw whatsoever, that's why I hate perfect score reviews for movies and **** too.

 

As for Alpha/Beta, what would make you it? Being rich? Being famous? Being cocky? It applies to simplistic animals, not humans.

[Titanwolf]

Even in alpha species (humans are not), an individual isn't one or the other. Alpha describes a role in a group, not a type of individual.

 

The way these words are used here at LS is never clear to me.

 

Precisely. In wolf packs, the alphas are the pair that get to mate. Leave it to humans to misconstrue something to such a degree though. Funnily enough, I've never EVER heard someone use any of these labels (in regards to humans) in real life, so I'm certain that our (their) recent inclination towards the Greek alphabet, is something that manifested online somewhere, or perhaps as a pitch PUA's developed to add the illusion of depth in their nonsensical books/videos.

[Emilia]

recent inclination towards the Greek alphabet,

 

that's a good way to describe it