Update - 3 and half years later

[willowthewisp]

I think maybe you are right Karnak, maybe no one here can offer me any advice on how to stop desiring something which it is natural to desire.

[karnak]

I think maybe you are right Karnak, maybe no one here can offer me any advice on how to stop desiring something which it is natural to desire.

 

Of course. Every human being has a natural need to connect with others (be it emotionally, sexually or whatever).

 

What you're asking (to stop longing for a deep emotional connection) is unnatural. It's like asking to be turned into an android.

[willowthewisp]

Of course. Every human being has a natural need to connect with others (be it emotionally, sexually or whatever).

 

What you're asking (to stop longing for a deep emotional connection) is unnatural. It's like asking to be turned into an android.

 

Well then I don't know what to do???????????????????????????????????

 

I don't want just a sexual connection and I cannot find anyone who wants the same as me, a deep emotional connection because all the guys I meet only want sex

[the ill-made knight]

Maybe it's the type of men you are meeting/dating or where you are meeting them at?

[tojaz]

Willow, I think your misinterpreting what people are trying to say here.

 

Your right, most people desire that emotional connection above all else. Your obviously not wrong to want that for yourself, in fact you deserve nothing less.

 

Most people need that, and really miss it when they don't have it in their life. Those of us who had found it and had it brutally stripped away, well we miss it even more and its very very hard to adjust to a life without.

 

When someone is really craving the connection they lost, it becomes a driving force. Unlike what a lot of people will tell you, it does leave a hole that is impossible for a person to fill on their own. Unfortunately thats just a fact, a person with all the self esteem and self love in the world still can't replace having the care of another in their life.

 

I think the whole, wait and let love find you thing doesn't really ring true to everyone, there are too many variables at play for that to be right for everybody. What that approach does do however, is allow you to keep being yourself.

 

When you let the search become a driving force in your life, you look at things differently, you look at yourself differently. You ask yourself where you can go, what you can say, how you can act, even what you can change in order to attract that connection and bring it into their life. Often times people do change themselves in one way or another hoping it makes them more desirable, or seem more approachable, etc. Everyone does it to some extent, but in doing that a person can find themselves losing more of themselves in the process.

 

Your staying strong and not doing what those guys in the pubs are doing.... trading right for right now!

 

Willow, you are not defined by who's arm your on or your relationship status. You never have been and you never will be! Because the right guy hasn't come along yet is no reason to give up your desire to have that in your life. It is a reason to put a little time into reminding yourself that your more then good enough and strong enough to stand alone and thrive until he shows up or even if he never does.

 

The best part Willow, is by remembering that ( I say remember because i know it is a fact) you put your best face forward, for the world to see, including the men. You put out the confident Willow that isn't second guessing what she says, or how she acts, or if she should approach a guy or what it means that he didn't approach her.

 

Getting frustrated and trying too hard takes all the best out of you. That's what it felt like for me anyway when i found myself in that position. Felt like i was questioning a lot of what I did and for the wrong reasons.

 

My advice Willow, go someplace that you can just be yourself, that you can feel comfortable and enjoy alone. Then take a look around, find someone sitting alone that isn't trying to get noticed. Then go say Hi. If nothing comes of it you still had a nice time at a place you enjoy. If thats the worst that can happen in an evening, I'd say your not doing too bad.

 

TOJAZ

[Steadfast]

Once again Willow, you're getting good advice and more proof that you've got caring friends here. The merry-go-round for you continues, but you've added a new element seeking for ways to 'turn off' the emotion of desiring what you'll (in your own words) never have. Is this a healthy approach?

 

I do however, understand the frustration of being single and wanting genuine love in a world that's more and more disingenuous. Still, you have to admit will all the people on this earth, it is impossible for you to be the only one with that desire and that opinion. There are still many. It's true.

 

If you feel true happiness will be found in no longer wanting love, companionship or a committed relationship, then apply the same determination that got you through school and into employment, to that. Make up your mind that you are NO LONGER looking or wanting a relationship, then modify your lifestyle and daily routine to fit that new mindset. In time, it'll probably start to sink in. Find a new passion to replace the old one. If this is what you want, it is within your means.

 

Personally, I consider it self-abuse; a 'punishment of yourself' because you have not found someone yet, and you feel it's long overdue. You are VERY opinionated and stubborn in your views willow. You've flushed a lot of good advice. You have both very high and very low self esteem, but I think most everyone can not only relate with that, but find it in their own personalities too. It's too bad that bad things happen to good people, but they do.

 

If you do discover some way to 'switch it off' don't be surprised if Mr Right shows up. Thing is, will you care? If you do, then you never really did shut down emotionally, did you? That's why this is an exercise in futility, IMO.

 

Always here with an ear for you willow. Glad you wrote with an update.

[lovely81]

Well, I love reading Willow's posts, because they usually very uncannily articulate how I feel in my worst moods. At one point I had a list of activities to do when I was trying to control what I cannot control--journaling, calling friends, watching TV, reading. Maybe do something like that--but I do not recommend thinking about the subject or doing anything aimed at getting it. It is hard to live with wanting something and not having it. It's a little embarrassing and makes you feel vulnerable. But that is what human beings connect to, so I think by trying to build a shell that will protect you, in a way you are undermining your ability to feel the love you want...not just from the True Love, but the love of your friends and family, many of whom undoubtedly have partners but still wake up every day with the same struggles of feeling disconnected, less than, unworthy etc. Be kind to yourself. I think sometimes these patterns of behavior will continue on into our relationships, so if you learn how to be kind to yourself now, you will be able to be kind to a partner, and also attract someone who values that kindness.

 

Sort of rambley, but I hope you can pull something out of this. I too am happy to see how far you've come--I guess the other caution is that do you really want a guy to replace that other guy? It doesn't sound like you want a flesh and blood person, it sounds like you want someone to fill a slot. People who want that, get it, and it's not pretty. They are then stuck with people they don't understand or feel truly alive around. Don't look for someone to play a role in your life, because then you will only be acting.

[willowthewisp]

Thanks for reminding me why I left this forum! Once again, I am hurt by the cruel words that some here feel they can say about me when they do not even know me. When I post I try to be helpful and caring towards another person here who has feelings, I also try not to pass judgment on the op's and personal remarks, nor do I tell someone that they are disregarding advice just because they do not happen to agree with it.

 

Lovely81 - seriously??????????????????????????????? Filling a void? Shesshhh give me SOME credit.

Edited September 1, 2012 by willowthewisp

[OleBlue]

Thanks for reminding me why I left this forum! Once again, I am hurt by the cruel words that some here feel they can say about me when they do not even know me. When I post I try to be helpful and caring towards another person here who has feelings, I also try not to pass judgment on the op's and personal remarks, nor do I tell someone that they are disregarding advice just because they do not happen to agree with it.

 

Lovely81 - seriously??????????????????????????????? Filling a void? Shesshhh give me SOME credit.

 

 

What happen to your attitude between the last few posts and this post? I really thought you were genuine in seeking help and was getting it and trying to improve/learn until this post.

 

What happen?

[willowthewisp]

What happen to your attitude between the last few posts and this post? I really thought you were genuine in seeking help and was getting it and trying to improve/learn until this post.

 

What happen?

 

I am genuine OleBlue, it's just that some people on this forum know my back story and for some reason they like to "use" that to upset me. I did not like the way that Steadfast used info about my ex leaving me to mock me.

[Steen719]

 

It doesn't sound like you want a flesh and blood person, it sounds like you want someone to fill a slot.

 

I think I know what you mean here. My XH did that, I believe. The AP (old GF) did not work out (while we were in the middle of the mess) and so he immediately started looking out there on FB (same place he had hooked up with old GF) and before we were divorced and still living together, he moved on to another old friend of his. They are still together and it has been about a year, but truthfully, what you said is what I believe he did. I have been trying to find a way to describe it and that does it. I feel like I was walking in line and was plucked out and she was put in that slot. I can't know for sure, but I don't see any of the qualities that he seemed to be looking for and I have this feeling in my gut that he needed to fill what was gone, even though he made that happen. I may not be describing what I mean well...sorry. I don't know if I will ever find anyone again, but I have learned a lot in this process and I hope I will make better choices. I think he felt a "need" for someone to fill that slot, instead of a real desire for one person to be in that slot. If I don't make sense, blame it on the heat. LOL:D

[Steadfast]

Some people just do not mesh. I considered not replying this time. Doing so was an error in judgement but I will not make that mistake again. I do not wish to make things worse for you willow. I sincerely want you to be happy.

 

My best in your quest.

[willowthewisp]

Some people just do not mesh. I considered not replying this time. Doing so was an error in judgement but I will not make that mistake again. I do not wish to make things worse for you willow. I sincerely want you to be happy.

 

My best in your quest.

 

I'd appreciate that. I don't take kindly to being insulted and told I am opinionated and stubborn, particulaly when the person saying that knows full well that my ex said those things to me as his "reasons" for walking out on our wedding after two decades together, when the truth is my ex left me due to his own issues and to shack up with the other women with whom he was cheating on me with whilst walking me round churches and making our wedding plans, as seems likely is the case from info I have received since. Yeah my ex is not only a b****** he is a nutter too. He treated me like dirt and I am glad that I will never see him or speak to him ever again.

[hopesndreams]

Due to the way he left me I have no fondness even or even good memories of our time together, but this does not bother me in the slightest.

 

Totally relate.

 

It's as though a lot of people do not know what it means to really love, like they do not have the capacity to truely "feel".

 

Totally agree.

 

Already have/am still doing the online dating.

 

Don't spend anymore energy on this.

 

Just keep your eyes open in your day to day life and be aware of any "looks" your way from a man, and boldly look back. Feel a flutter? Good. That's how it starts. Feel nothing? That's good too, just keep walking and don't look back.

[willowthewisp]

First, I suspect that I owe Steadfast an apology for jumping down his throat. I still feel pretty annoyed being told I am opinionated but perhaps that is because of the meaning of that rather than that you knew that. I apologise Steadfast.

 

Due to the way he left me I have no fondness even or even good memories of our time together, but this does not bother me in the slightest.

 

Totally relate.

 

It's as though a lot of people do not know what it means to really love, like they do not have the capacity to truely "feel".

 

Totally agree.

 

Already have/am still doing the online dating.

 

Don't spend anymore energy on this.

 

Just keep your eyes open in your day to day life and be aware of any "looks" your way from a man, and boldly look back. Feel a flutter? Good. That's how it starts. Feel nothing? That's good too, just keep walking and don't look back.

 

Hi H&D nice to hear from you. How exactly does that work? The bolded part? How does it go from a glance in the street to a convo?

[Steadfast]

Apology accepted and differences forgotten willow.

 

I've read most of your posts but no...I didn't realize he said that to you. So I in turn apologize for that. But it's as you said; a blame shift. Sorry to hear of this new information as well. Liars do not escape life unblemished.

 

The people I respect most are stubborn. They have to be. I believe it is true of anyone who doesn't want to be a pushover. Nothing wrong with strong opinions either. In my life, the more I learn, the less I realize I know.

 

Wishing to hear a better 'progress report' from you, but happy you have not settled for less than what you truly desire. You are not to blame for wanting romance, genuine love and commitment. It is not too much to ask for.

[willowthewisp]

Thank you for accepting my apology Steadfast, generous of you.

 

Well, this has done my head in! Turns out someone I know has been cheating, for a good few years.

 

Now, this is what does my head in. The cheater is not an attractive person, physically or personality wise. Not being mean or nasty here, but honestly most people found it amazing that this person even had a partner at all and now it turns out they have two!

 

WHY? why is it that some people have no trouble getting a partner and I cannot find one?

 

Seriously, I am starting to beleive that there really is something dreadfully wrong with me that no one wants me.

Edited September 3, 2012 by willowthewisp

[tojaz]

Thank you for accepting my apology Steadfast, generous of you.

 

Well, this has done my head in! Turns out someone I know has been cheating, for a good few years.

 

Now, this is what does my head in. The cheater is not an attractive person, physically or personality wise. Not being mean or nasty here, but honestly most people found it amazing that this person even had a partner at all and now it turns out they have two!

 

WHY? why is it that some people have no trouble getting a partner and I cannot find one?

 

Seriously, I am starting to beleive that there really is something dreadfully wrong with me that no one wants me.

 

Willow, partners like that are easy to find. You've met plenty of them at the pub already.

 

People have no problem finding A partner, anybody can do that, you could walk out your door right now and have a man like that by your side in 5 minutes flat, and thats if you take your time!

 

That kind of person doesn't suit you though Willow, your not willing to settle for just A partner, nor should you, your looking for The RIGHT partner. That's a lot more difficult, not just for you, but for everybody.

 

TOJAZ

[willowthewisp]

Willow, partners like that are easy to find. You've met plenty of them at the pub already.

 

People have no problem finding A partner, anybody can do that, you could walk out your door right now and have a man like that by your side in 5 minutes flat, and thats if you take your time!

 

That kind of person doesn't suit you though Willow, your not willing to settle for just A partner, nor should you, your looking for The RIGHT partner. That's a lot more difficult, not just for you, but for everybody.

 

TOJAZ

 

Not true. The men I have met in the pub want casual sex, as in one night only, not that I am saying I want an affair partner either. The point being you say I can have A partner, well no, I can't, all I can get is laid. Not that I do, because I don't sex without emotional connection. The point being I can't get a relationship, of any description, with anyone...so no, I can't just walk out my door and find someone. Even the guys my freinds are telling me to stop dating, when I am dating them, don't want me in the end before I can dump them!

[tojaz]

Not true. The men I have met in the pub want casual sex, as in one night only, not that I am saying I want an affair partner either. The point being you say I can have A partner, well no, I can't, all I can get is laid. Not that I do, because I don't sex without emotional connection. The point being I can't get a relationship, of any description, with anyone...so no, I can't just walk out my door and find someone. Even the guys my freinds are telling me to stop dating, when I am dating them, don't want me in the end before I can dump them!

 

Willow, what that person has is two BAD relationships, those 2 do not even come close to adding up to 1 good real one.

 

You Willow have standards and that keeps you out of bad relationships by letting you weed them out. Thats a good skill lots of people would like to have. Its something I'm working on honing for myself. Because I found a lot of the wrong kind of relationships after my D. That has resulted in quite the dry spell.

 

What I'm saying is if the only standards are

A. That the person be of the opposite sex

B. That person have a pulse.

C. It be a relationship rather then a one nighter

 

Then a relationship is easy to find for just about anyone that doesn't have a tail, a third eye, or horns, and even then, everyone has their thing!

 

I know your standards are not that low Willow and I know your not willing to enter into a relationship just so you won't be alone. You have a very clear picture of what you need in your life, possibly too clear at times, but that is better then the alternative.

 

TOJAZ

Edited September 3, 2012 by tojaz

[Steadfast]

I have no logic or answers to address this willow. I saw a picture of the man my ex cheated on me with, and he was unremarkable. Later, I saw her with another man (who was married) and he was much more handsome than me.

 

Can't say which one bothered me more. Neither bothers me now though.

 

I can't predict anything but as a man I can say if/when that special person does come along, he'll be very happy to learn you waited for him. To the right man (or, a man who's thinking right) that means more than you know.

[willowthewisp]

Willow, what that person has is two BAD relationships, those 2 do not even come close to adding up to 1 good real one.

 

You Willow have standards and that keeps you out of bad relationships by letting you weed them out. Thats a good skill lots of people would like to have. Its something I'm working on honing for myself. Because I found a lot of the wrong kind of relationships after my D. That has resulted in quite the dry spell.

 

What I'm saying is if the only standards are

A. That the person be of the opposite sex

B. That person have a pulse.

C. It be a relationship rather then a one nighter

 

Then a relationship is easy to find for just about anyone that doesn't have a tail, a third eye, or horns, and even then, everyone has their thing!

 

I know your standards are not that low Willow and I know your not willing to enter into a relationship just so you won't be alone. You have a very clear picture of what you need in your life, possibly too clear at times, but that is better then the alternative.

 

TOJAZ

 

But that is what I am saying! No I can't find a relationship with anyone regardless. I'm not saying I don't have standards, I am saying even if I lower my standards to zero I still would not be able to get a relationship. That is how I know that there is soemething wrong with me in men's eyes, you said it yourself....as long as you don't have a tail or horns...so I guess whatever is worng with me is pretty d*** bad.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore...I've given up.

[trippi1432]

Sweetie - It's still not you or anything you have done. It's society, it's the times, it's media, it's the non-committal lives our generations have befallen to be honest.

 

Let's look at it another way, if you could compartmentalize the feelings you have today (past gone)...how would you set your goals? 1. Better Job....leads to 2. Getting out of where you are...parents vs. own place/life....3. Better You! 4. Better selection of life partners.

 

Now, I'm going to say something that's going to make ya a bit mardy...and I will fully take my lumps. Gotten used to here because easy answers are only a band-aid.

 

Life does not happen...love does not happen, until you are at peace with yourself, until you have made your own way. Then, when the eyes connect in a crowd, conversation is easy..because you make your own life. It's not about hardship, it's not about what you have been through, it's about what you have survived, learned and grown from.

 

Standards are standards, they are right to have. But MEN (and no I am not being a militant feminist here) want a woman who knows who she is and where she is going and can compromise and share a life together, the right man that is..not a man with low self-esteem and not one only wants it his way either. You've seen both sides Willow, perhaps it's time to do for yourself for a while and get your life lined up. I already know that isn't easy where you are, but if it were easy, you would have nothing to look back on and appreciate the struggle to get there really. The ex was just one struggle, and you accomplished that...pulling a guy...easy..getting what you really want in life...it's the next hurdle. Stop wasting your time in bars pulling guys, that is not the answer you seek in life and it's not where you will meet the next guy who really matters. I know all the things you have tried, but you weren't trying from a place where you knew YOU.

 

You have wonderful qualities and the right standards...and when you have and reach your own personal goals...at each stage, you will find that you attract the right kind of man.

 

xx

[tojaz]

But that is what I am saying! No I can't find a relationship with anyone regardless. I'm not saying I don't have standards, I am saying even if I lower my standards to zero I still would not be able to get a relationship. That is how I know that there is soemething wrong with me in men's eyes, you said it yourself....as long as you don't have a tail or horns...so I guess whatever is worng with me is pretty d*** bad.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore...I've given up.

 

Willow, theres no horns, no tail. The only thing I see is that you don't give yourself enough credit, and you put far too much importance on being in a relationship. So much that you let it's absence fold up the world around you.

 

Thats the way it seems in what you write Willow. It wasn't always the case, but I have come to believe that, as much as I dislike it, I would much rather be alone then be in a series of wrong relationships. I'm betting you believe the same thing, even if you are frustrated.

 

There is nothing wrong with you! There is nothing wrong with you! and since I know you won't believe me, I'll say it again. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU!.

 

TOJAZ

[willowthewisp]

Sweetie - It's still not you or anything you have done. It's society, it's the times, it's media, it's the non-committal lives our generations have befallen to be honest.

 

Let's look at it another way, if you could compartmentalize the feelings you have today (past gone)...how would you set your goals? 1. Better Job....leads to 2. Getting out of where you are...parents vs. own place/life....3. Better You! 4. Better selection of life partners.

 

Now, I'm going to say something that's going to make ya a bit mardy...and I will fully take my lumps. Gotten used to here because easy answers are only a band-aid.

 

Life does not happen...love does not happen, until you are at peace with yourself, until you have made your own way. Then, when the eyes connect in a crowd, conversation is easy..because you make your own life. It's not about hardship, it's not about what you have been through, it's about what you have survived, learned and grown from.

 

Standards are standards, they are right to have. But MEN (and no I am not being a militant feminist here) want a woman who knows who she is and where she is going and can compromise and share a life together, the right man that is..not a man with low self-esteem and not one only wants it his way either. You've seen both sides Willow, perhaps it's time to do for yourself for a while and get your life lined up. I already know that isn't easy where you are, but if it were easy, you would have nothing to look back on and appreciate the struggle to get there really. The ex was just one struggle, and you accomplished that...pulling a guy...easy..getting what you really want in life...it's the next hurdle. Stop wasting your time in bars pulling guys, that is not the answer you seek in life and it's not where you will meet the next guy who really matters. I know all the things you have tried, but you weren't trying from a place where you knew YOU.

 

You have wonderful qualities and the right standards...and when you have and reach your own personal goals...at each stage, you will find that you attract the right kind of man.

 

xx

 

So because I cannot get the job I need due to a bad economy I can't have a relationship either?

 

Sorry Trippi but that sounds like what you are telling me.

 

You say I do not know myself because I have not obtained my goals of career, own home, but I DO know myself, I know what I want I am trying my best to attain those goals. Unfortunately not everything in life comes with hard work, external factors play a part and over those I have no control.

 

Perhaps it's time to do for myself for a while etc? Erm, isn't that what I have already been doing for 3 years? Or did I not get a degree and a post-grad degree and a job where I am gaining relevant experience?

 

How can I NOT know myself?

 

I understand where you were coming from, but to tell me I cannot have one of the things that I want for myself (a relationship) until I attain the other things (career goal and consequently own place goal) seems...well seems a bit unfair and harsh really. I know what I want and I know who I am and I know where I want to be...getting there is not necessarily 100% in my own control...life doesn't work like that and if it has for you,,,then you are extremely lucky.

 

A relationship is not the be all and end all and the world does not fold up around me because I do not have one. There is NOTHING worng with wnating love in your life yet I am made to feel that I am abnormal for desiring this. I have said over and over on this thread how I am not just sitting about depressed and not being proactive yet I am told over and over that I place too much emphasis on a relationship and how I should be focusing on work etc.

 

Whilst I appreciate that the advice comes form a caring place, I think the thruth of the matter is that no one can advise me on how to get a realtionship because non of YOU have trouble attaining one. Which brings me back to my original point....clearly there is something about me that men do not like.

 

EDIT

 

So what is it about me that men do not like? Well, perhaps it is simply this....I'm not a self centred, manipulative, cheating b****. Look at any o fmy friends who are in relationships or about to get married and what do I see? High maintainance, selfish, manipulative women several of which are already cheating either emotionally or physically on their partners or have done in the past and not been caught by them.

 

Take a look around this forum and do you see a pattern? Because I do! Men seem to like this KIND of women.

 

Sorry but it is true...from what I have seen on here in the last 3 years men marry women who are the absolute epitome of selfish. The decent, loyal and caring women just keep getting looked past. I see everytime I go out. The women in a couple will ALWAYS be the one who is demanding attention, complaining to her boyfriend loudly and generally whinging about how cr***y their boyfriend is treating them. Princesses.

 

Just like the saying goes nice guys finish last, well perhaps nice, decent, honest ,caring women finish last too. Perhaps the solution is for me to change who I am and start being more selfish.

Edited September 6, 2012 by willowthewisp