Just another story

[BetrayedH]

In terms of the length of time to heal being related to the nature of the affair, I'm not sure that's much of a factor. I have seen betrayed spouses just as devastated by an emotional affair or a one-night stand as those whose spouses had long term physical affairs. The problem is usually that the betrayed spouse never thought their husband or wife was capable of betraying them. No matter how you slice it, rebuilding trust and being truly remorseful are the two main ingredients in a reconciliation. It also takes a very forgiving spouse. Her ego, self-esteem, self-confidence or whatever you care to call it is shattered. It takes a lot of love from your side to repair this damage. She is probably terribly afraid to even discuss the affair because of her fear that pressure on you will push you away. In the initial stages, the BS (many times) just tries to regain their footing and to keep the family together. They take a lot on themselves because they have no confidence that you will stay. Sadly, the anger stage usually comes much later. It hit me at about five months. I think once I felt some safety and security that she wasn't going to up and leave, I realized that, you know, this whole thing kinda pissed me off. I struggled initially with grief and sadness over what had happened to our marriage and at about 5 months, I started to get overwhelmingly angry that this damn crap was now going to be a permanent part of our marital history. I really wasn't ready for it and neither was my wife. If you really want to reconcile, you have to be prepared for that phase to come. And you have to let her feel safe enough to express it. Don't put up with abusive behavior but realize that you did create the problem and she does not want to feel the way that she does. Your patience is going to be the real test here.

 

I do also want to reiterate what another poster said about rebuilding your marriage. The book they mentioned - His Needs, Her Needs - is an excellent start. Be proactive with things like this. And if she doesn't start conversations, you start them. Given time and hard effort, you will start to have the occasional good day. Eventually you may have more good days than bad. Keep doing what you are doing and then challenge yourself to do more. Don't focus on your guilt; focus on your actions to a better future. I think your wife is giving you a shot. Take advantage of that whenever you can.

[xxxV]

I think that at first she really just wanted me around. She didn't want to discuss the affair and we would only discuss it in MC. Since we are no longer in MC, we talk about it more frequently but I usually start the conversation. She sometimes doesn't to talk about it. But the next day she will. It's just her timing that is different than mine.

Funny that she just had these explosions now (5 1/2 months after she first knew of the affair)...it's similar to your experience. And she also said that this bullsh*t now is something that we have, like an awful stain in our beautiful story together....

 

We already have read a book on this subject in our native language. It's a fictional story of a couple that went through a similar story. The tale is interspread with insightful comments.

But I read it first and she didn't want to read it right away. Just last week she read it in just 2/3 days and said she understood why I wanted her to read it with me. I am going to get another one for us to read together.

I think these tasks are really important.

I was never a patient guy...but through IC I have finding the roots of anxiety and impatience and hopefully I am going to learn on how to deal with it.

 

 

 

In terms of the length of time to heal being related to the nature of the affair, I'm not sure that's much of a factor. I have seen betrayed spouses just as devastated by an emotional affair or a one-night stand as those whose spouses had long term physical affairs. The problem is usually that the betrayed spouse never thought their husband or wife was capable of betraying them. No matter how you slice it, rebuilding trust and being truly remorseful are the two main ingredients in a reconciliation. It also takes a very forgiving spouse. Her ego, self-esteem, self-confidence or whatever you care to call it is shattered. It takes a lot of love from your side to repair this damage. She is probably terribly afraid to even discuss the affair because of her fear that pressure on you will push you away. In the initial stages, the BS (many times) just tries to regain their footing and to keep the family together. They take a lot on themselves because they have no confidence that you will stay. Sadly, the anger stage usually comes much later. It hit me at about five months. I think once I felt some safety and security that she wasn't going to up and leave, I realized that, you know, this whole thing kinda pissed me off. I struggled initially with grief and sadness over what had happened to our marriage and at about 5 months, I started to get overwhelmingly angry that this damn crap was now going to be a permanent part of our marital history. I really wasn't ready for it and neither was my wife. If you really want to reconcile, you have to be prepared for that phase to come. And you have to let her feel safe enough to express it. Don't put up with abusive behavior but realize that you did create the problem and she does not want to feel the way that she does. Your patience is going to be the real test here.

 

I do also want to reiterate what another poster said about rebuilding your marriage. The book they mentioned - His Needs, Her Needs - is an excellent start. Be proactive with things like this. And if she doesn't start conversations, you start them. Given time and hard effort, you will start to have the occasional good day. Eventually you may have more good days than bad. Keep doing what you are doing and then challenge yourself to do more. Don't focus on your guilt; focus on your actions to a better future. I think your wife is giving you a shot. Take advantage of that whenever you can.

[turnera]

I am already in therapy and we have been addressing that issue.

The anger as something to do with a lack of father figure during formative years, someone to confront. etc..

This is something that needs to fixed. In this case it's the how that might be more complicated...

Do you think this issue had something to do with her being less enamored of you or the marriage?

[xxxV]

Yes, I really do.

It is not a very nice thing to admit but I was angry at my wife before the affair. I had even consider moving out after a few discussions (this before any affair).

I had already mention this: in the midst of our struggle to have children she became very angry at me and should just explode with injust comments and accusations. She was also having a problem leading with anger and frustration.

 

This doesn't that I seeked an affair to get even on purpose, or that the affair is in any way justified. It just means that was fodder for the situation.

 

My wife had been depressed and wouldn't accept it, much less wanted any help from me or someone else. She only dealt with the depression after I left because it just became too much. The initital depression was not that serious, she is not prone to depression. But the frustration of infertility really took its toll.

 

Do you think this issue had something to do with her being less enamored of you or the marriage?

[BetrayedH]

Yes, I really do.

It is not a very nice thing to admit but I was angry at my wife before the affair. I had even consider moving out after a few discussions (this before any affair).

I had already mention this: in the midst of our struggle to have children she became very angry at me and should just explode with injust comments and accusations. She was also having a problem leading with anger and frustration.

 

This doesn't that I seeked an affair to get even on purpose, or that the affair is in any way justified. It just means that was fodder for the situation.

 

My wife had been depressed and wouldn't accept it, much less wanted any help from me or someone else. She only dealt with the depression after I left because it just became too much. The initital depression was not that serious, she is not prone to depression. But the frustration of infertility really took its toll.

 

From what I have seen, unresolved resentment is a factor leading up to most affairs. My wife was resentful about my weight gain, being a smoker (which I had been since my teen years), not doing enough to "lead" the household, not being emotionally connected. Before I knew about her affair, she told me out of the blue that she might want to separate. I was blindsided. She listed all of her complaints. I spent the next three weeks fixing them all. And I was pretty successful. After I found out about the affair, my wife said she felt stupid (her word) for never having the courage to talk to me about what she needed. She instead just kept harboring resentment and eventually went to grt her needs met elsewhere. I have truly learned something about unresolved resentment and what it can do to a marriage. Now, as soon as I feel remotely uncomfortable talking about something, that is my cue that I MUST talk about it. The more difficult the conversation, the more dangerous it is to leave undiscussed.

 

I wish my wife had found the courage to have that separation conversation before her affair. If she'd had that courage, her affair probably never would have happened, we would not be divorcing, and my two kids would still have their parents together.

[xxxV]

I have read your story BetrayedH, and I am so sorry that you are divorcing.

 

I feel like an imbecile for not speaking with my wife about small things that built resentment over the years and ended up contributing to the Affair.

I had a list of complaints such as: doing more housework, being more involved in the shopping for the house, working out, and even the way she spoke to me.

Each of these things were small but the combination of all of them was big.

In MC our counselor advised us to speak openly about these things and then working on them.

 

My wife never liked cooking (and she is not very good at it). And so she wouldn't cook (even if I was arriving late from work) and would just eat pre-packed stuff. Numerous times I arrived late and had to cook for 2, because she was expecting me.

 

On her side, she would complain that I was out too much (I was involved in music, politics, school, etc.).

We have trying to balance things out, I have quited a few activities and we try to cook together. It's not always great but we bond while doing it.

 

We also had our small feuds about cleaning the house. All this relates with very different up-bringings of course. I believe that at first in our marriage we learned to compromise in every small task but has years passed we went back to our entrenched ways, which led to conflict.

 

Stress was also a huge factor. I have completely changed my professional life in the last 3 years. I left a well paid but very stressful job in marketing and took something more manageable in terms of hours and stress, while my wife continued in the same area. Eventually her company went down and she lost her job. But the last year was terribly stressful for her (and colleagues) as the pressure mounted. She would be completely over-worked and very irritable. That also poisoned our house-hold.

She is now working free-lance and the stress is more manageable...

 

Today is one of the good days. I feel confident that we will survive this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I have seen, unresolved resentment is a factor leading up to most affairs. My wife was resentful about my weight gain, being a smoker (which I had been since my teen years), not doing enough to "lead" the household, not being emotionally connected. Before I knew about her affair, she told me out of the blue that she might want to separate. I was blindsided. She listed all of her complaints. I spent the next three weeks fixing them all. And I was pretty successful. After I found out about the affair, my wife said she felt stupid (her word) for never having the courage to talk to me about what she needed. She instead just kept harboring resentment and eventually went to grt her needs met elsewhere. I have truly learned something about unresolved resentment and what it can do to a marriage. Now, as soon as I feel remotely uncomfortable talking about something, that is my cue that I MUST talk about it. The more difficult the conversation, the more dangerous it is to leave undiscussed.

 

I wish my wife had found the courage to have that separation conversation before her affair. If she'd had that courage, her affair probably never would have happened, we would not be divorcing, and my two kids would still have their parents together.

Edited September 5, 2012 by xxxV

[Ninja'sHusband]

It's very encouraging that :

1) You told her about the affair in the first place, she didn't have to discover it

2) You are being honest and transparent with your wife

3) You are here proactively seeking ways to heal

4) You are going to counseling.

5) You are taking responsilibity for the affair, pointing out your own shortcomings that led to the affair.

6) You have deliberately gone no contact with the AP

7) You have told your BW about the contact AP made with you (did you tell her about the chance encounter you had at the political convention too?)

 

I think all these things will help you chances of reconcilliation and maybe reduce the amount of time it will take. There are many WS who do not do these things, and that is so damaging.

 

It's scary that your BW is in cancer treatment. That's a lot of stress to deal with. I hope you are showing her lots of love as well and showering her with compliments.

[xxxV]

I told my wife about the chance encounter at the political convention too. We are going back there next weekend and we will be avoiding AP.

It's my wife's mother that is fighting cancer...for almost 2 years now.

My wife is very attached to her mother and we have been spending as much time as we can with her mother.

 

I am trying as much as I can because:

1-I love my wife

2-I want this reconciliation to work out.

3-I want this awful feeling that i got from being an ass to go away.

 

It's very encouraging that :

1) You told her about the affair in the first place, she didn't have to discover it

2) You are being honest and transparent with your wife

3) You are here proactively seeking ways to heal

4) You are going to counseling.

5) You are taking responsilibity for the affair, pointing out your own shortcomings that led to the affair.

6) You have deliberately gone no contact with the AP

7) You have told your BW about the contact AP made with you (did you tell her about the chance encounter you had at the political convention too?)

 

I think all these things will help you chances of reconcilliation and maybe reduce the amount of time it will take. There are many WS who do not do these things, and that is so damaging.

 

It's scary that your BW is in cancer treatment. That's a lot of stress to deal with. I hope you are showing her lots of love as well and showering her with compliments.

[xxxV]

This is just an update.

 

The last few days have not been very good.

I cannot understand why, but I miss AP. I know that I shouldn't, but I do.

I haven't spoken with her, and don't intend to.

But I sometimes feel that although I did what was right (coming clean, trying to repair my mistakes), I didn't do it for the right reasons.

When I moved out and the A was going on I surfed the net and read about the slim chances of survival that such a relationship had. At the same time I felt bad for all the additional suffering that my wife was going through (unemployment, sick mother).

Even my AP said "you are a good man, please go back to your wife, she really needs you, You know that you belong there know".

All this gave me strenght to do it but I have come to realize that perhaps my marriage has an expiration date, and that the A made it clear.

 

It doesn't feel like it did before. Sometimes I feel like giving up. Although I know that I have really changed my ways, my wife treats me the same. The only thing that changed for her is that she doesn't want me hanging with the same friends as before.

But between us, I feel very few has changed. When problems arise, she doesn't want to speak about them. She is not more caring than before and that was a real trigger for the A. We spoke about it in MC and after, and she says that she doesn't like me to say that I need more affection...

 

I don't really have a point, I am just sharing what I feel.

[BetrayedH]

This is just an update.

 

The last few days have not been very good.

I cannot understand why, but I miss AP. I know that I shouldn't, but I do.

I haven't spoken with her, and don't intend to.

But I sometimes feel that although I did what was right (coming clean, trying to repair my mistakes), I didn't do it for the right reasons.

When I moved out and the A was going on I surfed the net and read about the slim chances of survival that such a relationship had. At the same time I felt bad for all the additional suffering that my wife was going through (unemployment, sick mother).

Even my AP said "you are a good man, please go back to your wife, she really needs you, You know that you belong there know".

All this gave me strenght to do it but I have come to realize that perhaps my marriage has an expiration date, and that the A made it clear.

 

It doesn't feel like it did before. Sometimes I feel like giving up. Although I know that I have really changed my ways, my wife treats me the same. The only thing that changed for her is that she doesn't want me hanging with the same friends as before.

But between us, I feel very few has changed. When problems arise, she doesn't want to speak about them. She is not more caring than before and that was a real trigger for the A. We spoke about it in MC and after, and she says that she doesn't like me to say that I need more affection...

 

I don't really have a point, I am just sharing what I feel.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before so forgive me if this is repeating.

 

Just before, during and after an affair, a wayward spouse does a lot of "rewriting the marital history" to help their minds justify behaviors that even they themselves don't believe in. I suspect that at one point, you were very much in love with your wife. But viewing your marriage thru the lens of an affair makes it very difficult to see that. An affair is a great fantasy. You see only the positive side of your affair partner; they are also enamoured with you because they have only seen the good side you show to them. There are no shared responsibilities, just "love" and sex. Do think that lasts? I assure that real life intrudes. Isn't that what happened with your wife?

 

As for your life right now, it should be no surprise that your wife doesn't want to feel compelled to show "more" affection. She likely has a lot of uncontrollable mental movies of what the two of you did together. She probably really struggles most with the emotional aspect - the affection that you showed to your AP rather than to your wife. It is a tough time for her. It should be a tough time for you. If she is showing you any affection right now, it's a gift.

 

What you had with your OW was a fantasy that would never last. What you have with your wife is real and it is in desperate need of repair. I suggest you be patient with how she heals after you broke her.

 

With all that said, I don't think you have to suffer a permanently miserable marriage. If she is determined that she will NEVER regain her love for you or never be able to show you the affection you need, that is another question. What do you think are the long-term possibilities of restoring your marriage? Is this a temporary (2-5 year) setback or a permanent one where your wife is saying she will never do what you need? If it is permanent, I suspect she will want out of the marriage, as will you. Either way, stop looking at your affair and your affair partner through rose-colored glasses. Her sh|t stinks just like anyone else's.

Edited September 11, 2012 by BetrayedH

[BetrayedH]

By the way, I again recommend you also post on the wayward forum at survivinginfidelity.com. Many reconciling waywards post there and i think you could greatly benefit from them pointing out how much "wayward thinking" you are doing. Since they are in your shoes, it may really help to hear their impressions and how they deal with the same thoughts. There are a lot of betrayed spouses here (including myself) and OM/OW and our experience is simply different.

[xxxV]

Yes, I am aware of the "rewriting". I did it to justify moving out, and everything else.

Part of this was boosted by resentment.

For example, we are married for 10 years but I never wanted to get married, much less married in church. I am an atheist, never attended church. She is not much of believer too. But we got married in church because her parents demanded that we did! (luckily the priest knew me since I was born and said that it was possible to marry people of different faiths...I know it's weird but I was not going to be an hypocrite and claim to be catholic...)

This always stuck with me as a sign that I was making more than my fair share of effort. Similar things happened relating with where live, if we should buy or rent, etc.

And in the end I have always gave in. Nothing is like I wanted. I know that compromises are necessary to make a relationship work.

 

When the Affair happened all this was blown out of proportion...a re-writting to justify getting out, although these issues were always important to me.

 

Right now, it's different. She says that she loves me, and I believe her. She says that she has forgiven what happened. And I think that's too fast...

Also, she is just not very affectionate now. Of course the A might be influencing that. But things are getting to where they were before very fast, in terms of how we relate. It's not miserable, it's just bland, and it had been like that for some time before the A.

I am not claiming the A and the AP was paradise. It wasn't, I know it. The AP was an extremely needy person that would text me 100+ times a day. I cannot deal with that. Nothing was better, except the feeling of being praised.

 

I am not looking back at AP and the A as an escape. It's not going to happen. I am just afraid that the A was a sign that this relation is dying.

I know that there are bad days in a journey that could last a few years.

Thanks for remembering me of SI.

[BetrayedH]

Yes, I am aware of the "rewriting". I did it to justify moving out, and everything else.

Part of this was boosted by resentment.

For example, we are married for 10 years but I never wanted to get married, much less married in church. I am an atheist, never attended church. She is not much of believer too. But we got married in church because her parents demanded that we did! (luckily the priest knew me since I was born and said that it was possible to marry people of different faiths...I know it's weird but I was not going to be an hypocrite and claim to be catholic...)

This always stuck with me as a sign that I was making more than my fair share of effort. Similar things happened relating with where live, if we should buy or rent, etc.

And in the end I have always gave in. Nothing is like I wanted. I know that compromises are necessary to make a relationship work.

 

When the Affair happened all this was blown out of proportion...a re-writting to justify getting out, although these issues were always important to me.

 

Right now, it's different. She says that she loves me, and I believe her. She says that she has forgiven what happened. And I think that's too fast...

Also, she is just not very affectionate now. Of course the A might be influencing that. But things are getting to where they were before very fast, in terms of how we relate. It's not miserable, it's just bland, and it had been like that for some time before the A.

I am not claiming the A and the AP was paradise. It wasn't, I know it. The AP was an extremely needy person that would text me 100+ times a day. I cannot deal with that. Nothing was better, except the feeling of being praised.

 

I am not looking back at AP and the A as an escape. It's not going to happen. I am just afraid that the A was a sign that this relation is dying.

I know that there are bad days in a journey that could last a few years.

Thanks for remembering me of SI.

 

I appreciate your honest responses. Please don't take offense at mine because they are not intended that way.

 

Keep remembering the "why" behind your affair. As much as you had marital difficulties before the affair, so did she and she did not make the same choices. Your affair was (in my opinion) not as much about the state of your marriage (they all have struggles like yours) but more likely about something broken within you that caused you to have a need for more external validation (or "praise" as you call it). I know you're aware of this. Sometimes it just helps to have a reminder from a third party.

 

Gotta run back to work. Keep working on it. I'm glad you have made the more difficult choice to try to reconcile and I am rooting for you.

[turnera]

But things are getting to where they were before very fast, in terms of how we relate. It's not miserable, it's just bland, and it had been like that for some time before the A.

Then I take it you did NOT go get the book I recommended last week?

[xxxV]

No, not yet but I already ordered it.

 

Then I take it you did NOT go get the book I recommended last week?

[turnera]

Come back after you've read it and we'll talk

[xxxV]

This is an update on my story.

The last few weeks have been good.

For a long time I was on meds (antidepressant and anxiety drugs) and I am now off of them for 1 month. And I am not feeling any need.

I am feeling more in control of what I do. This has been a huge issue at IC.

Just now I am realizing to what extent my High Self Monitoring influenced a series of bad decisions, the A being the worst of them.

I have seeking external validation my whole life. From other men, from women, from everybody. I had periods of extremely low esteem and getting people to like me was all I wanted. And getting attention was such a boost...But a fake one, I have realized, the problem lies within.

A non present father, an over-protective mother, a feeling of never fiting in, never being good enough. Just ingredients that helped in creating a weak sucker for female attention.

 

And in the meantime I was married to the most beautiful and loving woman I had ever met. What an ass.

Dday was almost 7 months ago and the really bad days are seldom.

We have been going out on dates, staying home watching movies or reading. My brother and sister-in-law just had a baby and we are delighted with our nephew.

I sometimes just hug my wife and tell her how much I love her and thank her for this second opportunity. I pictured her alone in our house crying when I moved out and I feel so sad.

 

However there are still triggers, too many. But mostly for me, not as much for my BS. NC is in place, mental NC is intermitent. There have numerous days of mental NC but this is just too small a place.

Just now I am realizing the full dimension of the mess I created. Some friends that are not aware of what happened sometimes mention events and people, among them AP. This is how we have come to know that AP had quit her job but now manages a place where we used to go (not anymore). And she might be moving in to the same city we live in. Also same friends mentioned that she ended a relationship that started shortly after the affair (with a former friend of mine, I also cut all contact with him. I am not interested in knowing anything).

I have been cutting contact with these friends and telling the ones that know of the A that we do not want to know anything about AP (other than extreme situations of life or death). This situation breaks mental NC for me. Parts of the movie start again and it's just awful for me. But I am sharing everything with my wife.

Do you have advice at this point?

[turnera]

So, since you are the remorseful former WH, and since the AP was known to a lot of your friends, my advice is to tell the truth to everyone (but tell your wife first that you're going to do it). That way, they'll know not to bring AP up, and they'll know not to do anything to help you trigger. Plus, your humility in admitting the truth will help your wife heal.

[BetrayedH]

I would tend to agree with Tunera. Living an authentic life from here on out should be an objective for you. This approach may also help you maintain NC as everyone around you would know to be sensitive about it. But as Turnera mentioned, discuss it with your wife first; she may not want everyone to know. I was and I still am very open about being a betrayed spouse but others can feel extreme shame for being cheated on, especially if they stayed with the person. Find out what her comfort level is.

 

Otherwise, I suggest you keep doing what you are doing. You seem healthier at each update and other than this occassional contact with the OW, I don't see or hear any red flags. Keep going and remember the 2-5 years. If you ever find a way to move away from this other woman entirely, take it. Continue to remain humble as reconciliation is truly a gift. Speaking from experience, losing the family is painful.

[road]

This is an update on my story.

The last few weeks have been good.

For a long time I was on meds (antidepressant and anxiety drugs) and I am now off of them for 1 month. And I am not feeling any need.

I am feeling more in control of what I do. This has been a huge issue at IC.

Just now I am realizing to what extent my High Self Monitoring influenced a series of bad decisions, the A being the worst of them.

I have seeking external validation my whole life. From other men, from women, from everybody. I had periods of extremely low esteem and getting people to like me was all I wanted. And getting attention was such a boost...But a fake one, I have realized, the problem lies within.

A non present father, an over-protective mother, a feeling of never fiting in, never being good enough. Just ingredients that helped in creating a weak sucker for female attention.

 

And in the meantime I was married to the most beautiful and loving woman I had ever met. What an ass.

Dday was almost 7 months ago and the really bad days are seldom.

We have been going out on dates, staying home watching movies or reading. My brother and sister-in-law just had a baby and we are delighted with our nephew.

I sometimes just hug my wife and tell her how much I love her and thank her for this second opportunity. I pictured her alone in our house crying when I moved out and I feel so sad.

 

However there are still triggers, too many. But mostly for me, not as much for my BS. NC is in place, mental NC is intermitent. There have numerous days of mental NC but this is just too small a place.

Just now I am realizing the full dimension of the mess I created. Some friends that are not aware of what happened sometimes mention events and people, among them AP. This is how we have come to know that AP had quit her job but now manages a place where we used to go (not anymore). And she might be moving in to the same city we live in. Also same friends mentioned that she ended a relationship that started shortly after the affair (with a former friend of mine, I also cut all contact with him. I am not interested in knowing anything).

I have been cutting contact with these friends and telling the ones that know of the A that we do not want to know anything about AP (other than extreme situations of life or death). This situation breaks mental NC for me. Parts of the movie start again and it's just awful for me. But I am sharing everything with my wife.

Do you have advice at this point?

 

 

A example post dday and NC is in place that is not enough to recoevr the marriage. You need to move 1,000 miles away from the OW/home town/old common friends because as you see the NC is being broken all the time. Hearing, reading, are forms of contact just as effective as casuing trigger.

 

The 1,000 mile distance is that 2 day car ride makes it to hard to both restarting an affair and to costly to fly. Easier and cheaper to find a new local hoe/hoette.

 

You also need to rethink what it is to be a friend. You let your friend date your ex AP without warning him that she is a cheating @#$%^. Friend's like you and that poor guy does not need any enemies.

[BetrayedH]

A example post dday and NC is in place that is not enough to recoevr the marriage. You need to move 1,000 miles away from the OW/home town/old common friends because as you see the NC is being broken all the time. Hearing, reading, are forms of contact just as effective as casuing trigger.

 

The 1,000 mile distance is that 2 day car ride makes it to hard to both restarting an affair and to costly to fly. Easier and cheaper to find a new local hoe/hoette.

 

You also need to rethink what it is to be a friend. You let your friend date your ex AP without warning him that she is a cheating @#$%^. Friend's like you and that poor guy does not need any enemies.

 

I have to agree with Road that continued reminders of the affair (by this incidental contact with the OW) is extremely troublesome. Every contact can set you back to square 1 and it is troublesome/disrespectful to your wife whether she has the courage to say it or not.

 

I know you have said that due to the nature of your country, moving is impractical, if not impossible. I would challenge you to challenge yourself about moving anyway. Examine every possbility. In my view, a loss of income would be irrelevant compared to the loss of my marriage.

[xxxV]

I know that most readers/contributors of this forum are based in the USA, and so you don't realise that other countries are much smaller.

Where I live, moving 1000 miles would mean moving at least 2 countries apart to a place where I don't even know the language!!!

 

Imagine that in the USA you would need to move to Greenland and speak Inuit.

 

And if everyone that cheated in my country (or similar sized places) were to do the same, our countries would be full of foreigners. And that is just not feasible. It is not a question of money, income, opportunities.

 

So this can and be will handled here.

 

It would probably be easier to overcome if we were far away, of course. But since we cannot do it what I am doing is changing my routines and always talking with my wife about that. I know that these reminders are very troublesome to our marriage. She is vocal about that and so am I. I don't want to be around anywhere AP might be.

 

Road: I would say that the marriage is recovering at a good pace. Our MC said that we were on the right track. We communicate much better than before.

When NC is broken I just make it harder to break.

I warned my friend when he told me about it. You are very quick to judge. He entered a relationship knowing that. I haven't spoken with my friend in a long time. In fact, I cut all contact with him because he was with AP. I have been doing that with others. My wife is just more important than any tie that leads to AP. I really want to don't know anything.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Road that continued reminders of the affair (by this incidental contact with the OW) is extremely troublesome. Every contact can set you back to square 1 and it is troublesome/disrespectful to your wife whether she has the courage to say it or not.

 

I know you have said that due to the nature of your country, moving is impractical, if not impossible. I would challenge you to challenge yourself about moving anyway. Examine every possbility. In my view, a loss of income would be irrelevant compared to the loss of my marriage.

[xxxV]

Hi

I am posting to update a bit on my story and to make a few question to those that have trailed the path of a WS trying to reconcile.

 

 

Since my last update good things have happened.

I had a few problems with NC. Although there was no deliberate contact, a few bump-ins occurred, since fAP works in my town. But I (we, me and BW) have been able to avoid all contact.

Would you say that deliberately avoiding places and/or circumstances where we might find my fAP is giving her too much relevance? A form of breaking mental NC?

 

I ask this because I had a bigger problem with mental NC. Reoccurring mind movies kept popping up and there were a lot of triggers. This has to do with the fact that most of the events related with the A happened real close to where I live. But that has also subsided dramatically.

IC has been really helpful with that. Nevertheless, from time to time I have what I call an unwanted curiosity about fAP. These moments are followed by sadness, anguish and self-criticism. After the affair I was taking anti-depressant meds for about 6 months. I was extremely anxious and even had suicidal thoughts. I am off the meds now and it seems like I am getting back on my feet.

But I still fear my fAP. That’s right, I fear her. I fear that I might see her and what my reaction might be. Is this normal?

 

I know that the A was my mistake; I have been addressing the whys in IC. I believe that this fear relates with the fact that I really don’t want to lose my wife but I still doubt myself and my self-control (big issue in IC, it goes back to early childhood). I know that I love my wife, always loved her but for a moment, while under various stressful circumstances, I fell for someone because I had bad boundaries, low self-esteem, etc.

My BW, on the other hand, says that she is rebuilding her trust in me and that she knows that I love her. She has been so supportive and caring that sometimes I even feel that I am not worthy. I sometimes cry and just embrace and say thank you and I am so sorry.

 

Another question that keeps coming up is disclosing the A to friends and relatives. Only a few relatives on my side know, and a few friends. A few others don’t know and sometimes ask questions or make suggestions that they wouldn’t if they knew. Should we tell them? I am not proud of what happened but I really wouldn’t care if they knew, as long as I am solid with my wife. She says that she is not very comfortable with them knowing but that we might need to say at some point. Any advice?

 

Thanks

[BetrayedH]

Hi

I am posting to update a bit on my story and to make a few question to those that have trailed the path of a WS trying to reconcile.

 

 

Since my last update good things have happened.

I had a few problems with NC. Although there was no deliberate contact, a few bump-ins occurred, since fAP works in my town. But I (we, me and BW) have been able to avoid all contact.

Would you say that deliberately avoiding places and/or circumstances where we might find my fAP is giving her too much relevance? A form of breaking mental NC?

 

I ask this because I had a bigger problem with mental NC. Reoccurring mind movies kept popping up and there were a lot of triggers. This has to do with the fact that most of the events related with the A happened real close to where I live. But that has also subsided dramatically.

IC has been really helpful with that. Nevertheless, from time to time I have what I call an unwanted curiosity about fAP. These moments are followed by sadness, anguish and self-criticism. After the affair I was taking anti-depressant meds for about 6 months. I was extremely anxious and even had suicidal thoughts. I am off the meds now and it seems like I am getting back on my feet.

But I still fear my fAP. That’s right, I fear her. I fear that I might see her and what my reaction might be. Is this normal?

 

I know that the A was my mistake; I have been addressing the whys in IC. I believe that this fear relates with the fact that I really don’t want to lose my wife but I still doubt myself and my self-control (big issue in IC, it goes back to early childhood). I know that I love my wife, always loved her but for a moment, while under various stressful circumstances, I fell for someone because I had bad boundaries, low self-esteem, etc.

My BW, on the other hand, says that she is rebuilding her trust in me and that she knows that I love her. She has been so supportive and caring that sometimes I even feel that I am not worthy. I sometimes cry and just embrace and say thank you and I am so sorry.

 

Another question that keeps coming up is disclosing the A to friends and relatives. Only a few relatives on my side know, and a few friends. A few others don’t know and sometimes ask questions or make suggestions that they wouldn’t if they knew. Should we tell them? I am not proud of what happened but I really wouldn’t care if they knew, as long as I am solid with my wife. She says that she is not very comfortable with them knowing but that we might need to say at some point. Any advice?

 

Thanks

 

Welcome back, xxxV. I've been curious how you are doing.

 

I think you may have difficulty getting good advice here on the "mental NC" as there are very few reconciling waywards here that stick around. They have a tough audience. I hope several of them prove me wrong. Remember SI because their wayward forum is really built for guys like you and these exact questions.

 

Just a few thoughts of my own:

 

I don't think that intentionally avoiding the OW is giving her too much of your mental headspace. I think keeping physical NC is important and if you cannot get away, taking steps to prevent contact is your only option. I think you are over-thinking that part because you would so much like to be at mental NC. Hope that makes sense. I might be curious what your W thinks, though. If she thinks you are being obsessive about "her," perhaps there is an issue.

 

I'm not sure if "fearing" your xAP is normal. My gut says that you are quite normal in very much wanting to completely keep your distance as you know that this snake came out and bit your marriage in the leg once before and injected some venomous poison. I would want to steer clear, too. That said, it is a little concerning that you have little faith in your self-control. While you certainly have a history with her, you seem like one of the most remorseful waywards I can recall on this forum. You are doing everything you can; it appears to be working well. The concept that you would fold around the OW seems pretty unlikely to me since you have made such an investment in changing. What vision do you have where your self-control evaporates? If she walked up to you and you were unable to leave, what do you think would happen? Perhaps it would be helpful to envision every scenario possible and the best outcome from each one so that you can be decided before it even occurs. Just a thought. I would like to see you expand on how you think your self-control would crumble. You have used the word, fear, several times. Sometimes it is best to directly face our fears with both eyes wide open so that we can see that they aren't that scary after all. If you don't mind me asking, what is this big childhood issue?

 

As for your BW, it sounds like things are going well. You're a lucky man. I would remind you not to let your guilt outshine your remorse. Being too absorbed in your guilt can be selfish; being remorseful means changing that focus to your BW. That said, embracing her, thanking her, and apologizing to her are home runs. Keep doing that; most waywards tire of it and of discussing the affair well before the BS is ready.

 

As for exposing to friends and family, I think you take your cues from your BW. Some people are very ashamed of having accepted a cheater and would be very upset about a WS that told anyone. I would hate to see you upset what is a balanced apple cart right now. If something/someone in particular becomes problematic, I think it is ok to ask if she wants you to deal with it. As a matter of fact, asking her is both respectful and proactive. But I would probably avoid any coercion on your part. I think communicating willingness on your part is good enough and she can decide if more exposure would help. Dealing with these difficult people should be a team effort and she gets the last vote.

 

One last question...do you feel that your wife is adequately working to meet your needs as well now? I seem to recall that this was an issue for you (but not one that you really get to address in the early stages of reconciling). I just want to make sure you are not continuing to build resentment over a continually dissatisfying marriage and just trying to choke down the resentment because of guilt or obligation. Those two things are not good reasons to reconcile and could compromise it. I seem to recall someone suggesting the book, His Needs, Her Needs. I know some books may be difficult for you to obtain. Have you tried to get this one?

[xxxV]

Hi BetrayedH.

 

Yes, I think that my effort on keeping physical NC is really an effect of wanting mental NC and still being unable to achieve it. I haven’t shared this extensively with my W, I don’t want to upset her, because I know that this has more to do with me than with us. When mental NC is “broken” the thoughts that I have are not lovely portrayals of me and fAP. It’s more like an haunting feeling.

Haunting would be a more accurate word to describe what I feel regarding OW.

You asked to elaborate on what I fear might happen in the presence of the OW. So here it goes: I fear that I would start talking with her as I did before and that it would all very quickly lead up to restarting the affair. As I said, we were friends before, and we cared for each other. Up to a point, it looked like it was an “innocent” relationship. When things got worse between my wife and me, she was just to close. But the reality was that we were both carrying a candle for each other. And so, this was already damaging my marriage, even if I was unaware of it at the time.

My lack of faith in self-control comes from the affair itself. When I separated from my wife, nothing was going on with fAP but it soon started. A few weeks later I realized that although I had strong feelings for fAP, I loved my wife and that I should come clean and try to repair the damage. And so I did. But there were at least 2 relapses. We couldn’t let go of each other. Eventually I was strong enough to break it off and confess it all.

Although I returned home, changed my ways, feel guilty and remorseful, I cannot say that I despise, hate or scorn my fAP. I know that I don’t love her, not in that sense, but I sometimes miss her and I know that I have fondness for her. And I hate that! I feel it as a lack of character.

The childhood issue(s) are the following: my father left us several times (at least 2). He migrated to a different country. The first time he returned. The second time he didn’t return, he had a family there. And I never spoke with him again (until last July, when he came to our country and we met for the first time in my adult life). When we met I was nervous and I thought that I would hate my father. After speaking with him and hearing his version, I felt empathy and I realized that I was equally responsible to have broken contact with him for all these years.

I was always a very fearful and sensitive child. My mother was over-protective and those fears marked me all the way through my formative years. There were no men around, no father, no older brothers, no cousins or friends, and so I was a mamma’s boy and it diminished my self-esteem in school, later in work. I was also over-weight.

I have always been extremely rational, organized and productive. I was a straight A’s student, even now I am in the middle of phd that won a merit grant. But my emotional side has always been under-developed and fragile. Right now, I cannot be productive as before. I feel lost and my self-esteem is not that great too.

Just recently I realized the extent to which these factors have harmed me, my relationships and my development as a person. Although I am now able to recognize patterns of behavior that relate with this under-development of my emotional side, they cannot be resolved in a flash.

I now can fully recognize the differences between guilt and remorse. I have plenty of both….I am trying to be as giving as possible with my wife. We go out on dates, we share 90% of our free-time. Unfortunately I don’t think that my wife is able to meet my needs right now. She wants to, but she can’t. She is completely overwhelmed by her mother’s disease. My mother-in-law is extremely sick with cancer. She was just hospitalized yesterday and she might not leave the hospital. I am giving all the support that I can to my wife and I am in no position to demand anything right now. I hope that this doesn’t harm our Reconciliation.

Regarding telling others, I agree with you. I will be proactive but I will leave a vetoing possibility to my W.

Thanks for your continued support.