Is relationship and sex is 'something' that men 'get' from a woman /she gives

[fortyninethousand322]

I think I have been in the shoes of some of the girls SD "targets," though, and I know what it's like.

 

Oh please, I'm sure it's not that bad. In fact I'm sure it's better than many other fates.

[StillReigning]

Social status doesn't mean just having a great job and making a lot of money. Social status includes: social skills + money + connections +.... Women who are after long term commitment and a family are often going to reject you if you only make 30k a year, no matter how social you are.

 

 

Fair point although I'm not sure about the last statement, plenty of men in this country make 30K and I'm sure they're not all single

[fortyninethousand322]

Social status doesn't mean just having a great job and making a lot of money. Social status includes: social skills + money + connections +.... Women who are after long term commitment and a family are often going to reject you if you only make 30k a year, no matter how social you are.

 

I know I'd reject a woman if she made less than 30k. It's going to be hard to support a family on that low amount of dough and I'm sure as heck not going to be the breadwinner.

[mesmerized]

Fair point although I'm not sure about the last statement, plenty of men in this country make 30K and I'm sure they're not all single

 

No but they have more limited/lower quality options.

[StillReigning]

No but they have more limited/lower quality options.

 

 

Of course but you wanna be careful with generalized views like that. Plenty of married men make 30K

[Els]

As I've said in other threads, women don't actually have to do half the things they do to attract men.

 

Designer clothes, expensive perfume, best quality makeup etc, men don't care about that stuff.

 

It's been said before that women do such thing to compete against other women. And not to win men, it's just to be The Next Top Broad.

 

Really? Let's talk about the things that attract you to women. Seeing as you claim your standards are 'lower' than everyone else's and are the 'bare minimum', that seems as good a place to start as any.

 

Weight - will leave that to the next bit.

 

Long hair - have you any idea the sort of maintenance it takes to keep long hair looking good when it's down? Most girls with long hair that I know spend at least 20 minutes a day on their hair alone, from conditioning and treating and applying serum and whatnot, to blowdrying and straightening. You could keep it long without doing all of that, but unless you're blessed with amazingly rare good genes (more rare than that of the 6' man), you're likely to look like the resident witch.

 

Shaved body hair - ditto. Not even going to go into that. Try keeping your legs, armpits, and pubic area hairless (without stubble!) for a few weeks and you'll see.

 

You claimed you'd like a woman to have makeup that 'covers her flaws well' but doesn't look 'trashy'. Guess how much practice it takes to apply makeup like that, and how much even decent-quality makeup costs.

 

The list goes on, really. Trust me, it isn't about expensive perfume and designer handbags. When women talk about what they do to attract men, they aren't talking about that. They're talking about what I mentioned - and more. Sure, some women do it to compete with other women. But what are they competing FOR? Male attention.

 

Also, sure, women don't have to do all of the above. There are certainly guys (the better ones, IMO) who don't care about that. But it is no secret that many, including yourself, do. Your ideas of what men and women do to attract a mate are just skewed completely out of proportion. Beauty maintenance aside, I've seen women put heartbreaking amounts of effort into men who aren't even really into them. Your reality is not THE reality. You need to be able to open your eyes to see what others do and empathize with how they feel.

 

 

I've never met a woman like that. And even the girls who "struggle" on this forum, have standards, and do a lot better than many men.

 

Have you met Titania?

 

Uh, in that post you quoted, I was talking about if I were a woman. Being a woman with all the qualities I listed and not much more is enough to do fine in the dating game. I know men are judged on more.

 

Because those are the qualities that matter to YOU. Point blank, I would have no problems being with an overweight man. Does that mean that my 'standards' are lower than yours? No, I just have different ones. We can't apply our own priorities to everyone else. It would be akin to a 200 lbs, balding, 60 year old female CEO saying that if she were a man, she would have no problems finding mates, so clearly 'men must have it easier than women do'. Sure, it applies to her situation, but that does not make it the truth.

 

About your constant insistence about your lack of being overweight, I have a niggly feeling it would be different if you were a woman. To begin with, women of your size ARE often called overweight, albeit wrongfully. Secondly, it is exceedingly rare for a 30-year-old woman who does not exercise and doesn't watch her diet, to not be overweight. It is easier for you, because you have the innate basal metabolic rate of a man, and you lack the female hormones that encourage the storage of fat. It is completely possible for a 30-year-old woman to have a good body, but with few exceptions, she has to work at it. You mentioned trying to exercise for a few months to build muscle and gave up because you weren't seeing any returns, claiming your innate body type as a reason. Can you imagine if you were an overweight woman trying to lose weight? You'd still be exactly the same size now.

[mesmerized]

Of course but you wanna be careful with generalized views like that. Plenty of married men make 30K

 

and that's exactly why I said : women are "often" going to reject you and not "always".

[espec10001]

Social status doesn't mean just having a great job and making a lot of money. Social status includes: social skills + money + connections +.... Women who are after long term commitment and a family are often going to reject you if you only make 30k a year, no matter how social you are.

 

And how does that make you feel? Does it take away your feeling of being a man knowing that you're barred from women if you don't make enough money per year?

 

Women seek that which they do not understand in men. As much as men don't understand women, neither is the opposite case true either. Would you like to know what draws both sexes? Mystery and intrigue! You look at a woman, and she is different than you, yet you don't know why! A woman looks at a man, and wonders the same thing!

 

No, it is not as simple as money buys love. Love is red, it is heart!

[Mme. Chaucer]

It would be akin to a 200 lbs, balding, 60 year old female CEO saying that if she were a man, she would have no problems finding mates, so clearly 'men must have it easier than women do'. Sure, it applies to her situation, but that does not make it the truth.

 

I know you're talking about me here …

[Els]

Edit to my previous post:

 

TL;DR: It all takes effort. Almost everything in life does. For almost everyone. If you want to go through life complaining about how it takes effort on your behalf and constantly comparing yourself to those whom you 'think' put in less effort (although I haven't seen many people put in less effort than you, into most things), you're in for a pretty miserable life.

[fortyninethousand322]

The thing some people will have to come to terms with is that some men are just not able to attract women. At all. Ever. And it's totally out of their control.

 

Often in that situation, it will cause anger and resentment.

[espec10001]

The thing some people will have to come to terms with is that some men are just not able to attract women. At all. Ever. And it's totally out of their control.

 

Often in that situation, it will cause anger and resentment.

 

That is ridiculously not true! All women; no. A woman, yes.

[fortyninethousand322]

That is ridiculously not true! All women; no. A woman, yes.

 

It's an evolutionary fact that not all men in the past paired off and passed on their genes to the next generation. In other mammal groups not every man gets to mate. Humans are no different.

 

Look at the statistics. Virginity rates flatline after age 25. Meaning that if you're not dating/having sex or married by your mid twenties, it's very likely that something is intrinsically wrong with you.

 

To ignore this is to ignore science, and our own biological history as a species.

[Mme. Chaucer]

^^^

 

Yeah but you are not destined to be one of them, so don't worry about it.

[Els]

It's an evolutionary fact that not all men in the past paired off and passed on their genes to the next generation. In other mammal groups not every man gets to mate. Humans are no different.

 

Look at the statistics. Virginity rates flatline after age 25. Meaning that if you're not dating/having sex or married by your mid twenties, it's very likely that something is intrinsically wrong with you.

 

To ignore this is to ignore science, and our own biological history as a species.

 

This is not proof of your point, for several reasons:

 

1. You don't know that those men are 'doing all they can'. More than likely they are not. I know for a certainty that SD is not.

 

2. Has it ever occurred to you that those men are choosing not to pair off with some women because they are not attracted to them?

 

3. There are as many single women over 25 as there are men.

[fortyninethousand322]

This is not proof of your point, for several reasons:

 

1. You don't know that those men are 'doing all they can'. More than likely they are not. I know for a certainty that SD is not.

 

2. Has it ever occurred to you that those men are choosing not to pair off with some women because they are not attracted to them?

 

3. There are as many single women over 25 as there are men.

 

In the wild, when the alpha male of the pack mates with all the females of the pack, is it not a reality that only the alpha male's genes get passed on?

 

Now, I will certainly grant you that humans no longer live in pack-like conditions so some things are a bit different. But consider this: abusers, rapists, murderers, completely unconfident dweebs, starving artists, workaholic business execs and even repressed homosexuals get into relationships with women every single day, sometimes/often on accident. And you're telling me that SD with the issues he may or may not have is in a worse situation? No one gets to be 32 and in his situation without something deeply wrong. And I'd venture that it's a biological/genetic force.

[johan]

1. You don't know that those men are 'doing all they can'. More than likely they are not. I know for a certainty that SD is not.

 

Actually, I don't share your certainty. Keep in mind he's more than just a physically capable man who also has the time to spend doing the right things in places where things could happen for him. There is more required. I think most who have read his threads would agree he seems to be emotionally and intellectually maxed out right where he is. At least on the topic of women. If so, then he's doing all he can.

[espec10001]

It's an evolutionary fact that not all men in the past paired off and passed on their genes to the next generation. In other mammal groups not every man gets to mate. Humans are no different.

 

Look at the statistics. Virginity rates flatline after age 25. Meaning that if you're not dating/having sex or married by your mid twenties, it's very likely that something is intrinsically wrong with you.

 

To ignore this is to ignore science, and our own biological history as a species.

 

What's your source? Anecdotal evidence? Read something online that told you that? It's bull****. Every man can get a woman, he just might have to go about it differently than another guy.

 

You can quote science all you want, but the first thing any woman with half a brain will tell you is that scientists don't know anything! True love is what we all seek.

Edited August 27, 2012 by espec10001

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think most who have read his threads would agree he seems to be emotionally and intellectually maxed out right where he is. At least on the topic of women. If so, then he's doing all he can.

 

I would agree.

 

This is not advice for SD, but in general, I would say that the best thing a person in this situation could do would be to turn their attention to a completely different focus, with absolute determination and even with a passion. Develop more. That will lead a person to a different place than where they started. That would be good.

[fortyninethousand322]

What's your source? Anecdotal evidence? Read something online that told you that? It's bull****. Every man can get a woman, he just might have to go about it differently than another guy.

 

You can quote science all you want, but the first thing any woman with half a brain will tell you is that scientists don't know anything!

 

I've stated my case in other posts here if you wish to read them, but I'll just leave it at this: the OP in this thread is 32 and has never had a relationship of an meaning with a woman. He's not the only one on this board who is in that situation. You do not get to be age 30+ without any relationship experience unless you do so on purpose (ie you want to be a player or you're religious and waiting to marry someone) or if you've been in a coma for a decade. It just doesn't happen.

 

All kinds of screwed up people get into relationships all the time. Yet some guys don't. Why? Is it because they're not "trying hard enough"? Or, is it more likely that they are on the short side of the genetic stick?

[espec10001]

I've stated my case in other posts here if you wish to read them, but I'll just leave it at this: the OP in this thread is 32 and has never had a relationship of an meaning with a woman. He's not the only one on this board who is in that situation. You do not get to be age 30+ without any relationship experience unless you do so on purpose (ie you want to be a player or you're religious and waiting to marry someone) or if you've been in a coma for a decade. It just doesn't happen.

 

All kinds of screwed up people get into relationships all the time. Yet some guys don't. Why? Is it because they're not "trying hard enough"? Or, is it more likely that they are on the short side of the genetic stick?

 

What's your passion? What do you do that makes you feel alive?

[Els]

In the wild, when the alpha male of the pack mates with all the females of the pack, is it not a reality that only the alpha male's genes get passed on?

 

Now, I will certainly grant you that humans no longer live in pack-like conditions so some things are a bit different. But consider this: abusers, rapists, murderers, completely unconfident dweebs, starving artists, workaholic business execs and even repressed homosexuals get into relationships with women every single day, sometimes/often on accident. And you're telling me that SD with the issues he may or may not have is in a worse situation? No one gets to be 32 and in his situation without something deeply wrong. And I'd venture that it's a biological/genetic force.

 

Your logical arguments are all over the place. None of what you said here is relevant to your point, either, which is, may I remind you, that 'for some men, it doesn't matter what they do, they will never be able to get any women'.

 

You can't compare humans to the wild. In the wild, firstly there is rarely any monogamy. One alpha male takes tens, sometimes even hundreds of females. Secondly, the males are not picky. They will screw the female twice their age, with spots, with a broken leg, with children.

 

 

Actually, I don't share your certainty. Keep in mind he's more than just a physically capable man who also has the time to spend doing the right things in places where things could happen for him. There is more required. I think most who have read his threads would agree he seems to be emotionally and intellectually maxed out right where he is. At least on the topic of women. If so, then he's doing all he can.

 

Oh, you.

[fortyninethousand322]

Your logical arguments are all over the place. None of what you said here is relevant to your point, either, which is, may I remind you, that 'for some men, it doesn't matter what they do, they will never be able to get any women'.

 

You can't compare humans to the wild. In the wild, firstly there is rarely any monogamy. One alpha male takes tens, sometimes even hundreds of females. Secondly, the males are not picky. They will screw the female twice their age, with spots, with a broken leg, with children.

 

Yes, that is my point. That for some men they are simply unable to attract willing mates. Again, how many really screwed up men get into relationships with women all the time yet people like SD do not. There's no rational explanation as to why he's unique in having personal issues prevent him from meaningful relationships with women.

 

Again consider another fact: male virginity rates flatline after age 25. Now granted SD isn't a virgin, having paid for it, but it illustrates a point. Namely, by age 25 you can tell which men (and which women) will be attractive to the opposite sex.

 

If you don't accept that either, consider anecdotally the men here on LS. Of the "incel" crowd, has anyone in all their time here ever turned their ship totally around? I can only think of two posters whose main issue had nothing to do with dating specifically, but were more generalized issues. There are countless posters on the other hand, who are still stuck in the same place they were when they got here.

[Els]

Yes, that is my point. That for some men they are simply unable to attract willing mates. Again, how many really screwed up men get into relationships with women all the time yet people like SD do not. There's no rational explanation as to why he's unique in having personal issues prevent him from meaningful relationships with women.

 

Again consider another fact: male virginity rates flatline after age 25. Now granted SD isn't a virgin, having paid for it, but it illustrates a point. Namely, by age 25 you can tell which men (and which women) will be attractive to the opposite sex.

 

If you don't accept that either, consider anecdotally the men here on LS. Of the "incel" crowd, has anyone in all their time here ever turned their ship totally around? I can only think of two posters whose main issue had nothing to do with dating specifically, but were more generalized issues. There are countless posters on the other hand, who are still stuck in the same place they were when they got here.

 

...None of this, still, explains how they are doing 'everything they can' or that they would even want to date 'any women at all'.

[johan]

I would agree.

 

This is not advice for SD, but in general, I would say that the best thing a person in this situation could do would be to turn their attention to a completely different focus, with absolute determination and even with a passion. Develop more. That will lead a person to a different place than where they started. That would be good.

 

Yes, also to start with smaller goals. You can't expect to get someone into bed on day 1. Talk. Flirt. Date. Kiss. Make out. Really make out. Have sex. That would be the 12 step plan.