Mme. Chaucer Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I don't see how a girl being insecure is a bad thing. If it is, why are there hundreds of songs out there song by men, telling women that they're beautiful and that they are amazing just the way they are? How does telling a woman she is amazing and beautiful "just the way she is" equate to or imply in any way that the beautiful, amazing woman is insecure? 1
somedude81 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 How does telling a woman she is amazing and beautiful "just the way she is" equate to or imply in any way that the beautiful, amazing woman is insecure? Yeah, I know, I know when I compliment her, she won't believe me And it's so, it's so sad to think that she don't see what I see But every time she asks me do I look okay? I say When I see your face There's not a thing that I would change 'Cause you're amazing Just the way you are
Kofybean Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 ...How is me having trouble with women, at all related to women working hard or not to get good men in general?... (So what I posted previously never showed because it has links in it, so I will just take out the links, if you want the source just google the quote.) I hate how perfectly good discussions get ruined because people argue against the person and not the subject. Discounting what someone says because of who they are is so cheap. Here is some examples of the topic: "So please save yourself the manual exercise and the sad excuse of, oooh I'm afraid of being rejected! Man up, grow a pair and If she rejects you walk away and continue mingling with those who do show to be interested." <link removed> "If you want to approach a girl and lead a successful interaction or conversation, you’re going to have to do most of the talking, at least initially. " <link removed> "Of course this rarely happens, but this is what guys honestly are thinking about when they are deciding about whether or not to approach a girl. Its nerve-racking." <link removed> Of course women have to have confidence in their lives. I don't think a sane person, regardless of how experienced they are with the opposite sex will hold that women need no measurable levels of self esteem to have a quality life. IN DATING, because this is a DATING FORUM, why is it that men need to bear the burden of something that is generally regarded as nerve wracking by developing skill they weren't born with, instead of a 50/50 requirment from society? Why do sites, and common dating advice say that men have to bear the burden of rejection, do most of the talking, or overcome fears of embarrasment? I think these are valid discussion points, and a lot more meaningful that pointing fingers at people who are virgins and assuming their thoughts are invalid.
Mrlonelyone Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I can tell you from experience, that in this day and age, when some girls really want you, they will come after you, ask you to chill, and jump your bones to get what they want. As long as youre receptive, those kind of women will make things happen. ^This. Take it from someone who has been twice plied with drugs and alcohol by women who then took advantage of my lowered guard this happens. If a woman wants you badly enough they will do that, and they don't have to be ugly or anything. It's not common. It does not necessarily lead to a relationship etc but it happens. What the men here want really is a relationship not just sex. Sex is hollow and empty without that context.
mesmerized Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Only very extremely attractive girls don't need confidence and personality. Even they I think need it to be happy, but they might be able to get away with not having it. Most women aren't super model quality. Most women have to work for it in one way or the other.
SteveC80 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 HUGE Misconception. It is not that women look up to men as "superiors". WTF. This would mean she thought he was better then her, I can tell you that isn't the case. I am disturbed that you even said that. Please you dont expect somebody to lead unless you think that person is smarter and a better decison maker.. Its like a child parent thing..the man[parent] makes decisions for the better of the women[child] because of more common sense and knowledge
Disenchantedly Yours Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Please you dont expect somebody to lead unless you think that person is smarter and a better decison maker.. Its like a child parent thing..the man[parent] makes decisions for the better of the women[child] because of more common sense and knowledge Well that's true. Sometimes I can't figure out how to cross the road. Before you know it, you got like 5-10 women piled up behind me with an equal dilemma I'm experiencing. Luckily, there is always a man that comes across at the right moment and leads us across the road two at a time. Since this man had the foresight to fill his pockets with candy before he left the house, sometimes I, and the other women, get a lollipop for the success of our journey. 3
SteveC80 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Well that's true. Sometimes I can't figure out how to cross the road. Before you know it, you got like 5-10 women piled up behind me with an equal dilemma I'm experiencing. Luckily, there is always a man that comes across at the right moment and leads us across the road two at a time. Since this man had the foresight to fill his pockets with candy before he left the house, sometimes I, and the other women, get a lollipop for the success of our journey. No need to be snippy and facetious because i speak the truth.
somedude81 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Only very extremely attractive girls don't need confidence and personality. Even they I think need it to be happy, but they might be able to get away with not having it. Most women aren't super model quality. Most women have to work for it in one way or the other. Why did you lump together confidence and personality? Of course personality is required. That wasn't the question.
gaius Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Women who have no confidence and do whatever I want are not sexy. I like being called a smart ass and told no occasionally. 1
kaylan Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 "Behavior". I've been nothing but respectful and honest on here. Perhaps a bit too self effacing at times but no one (aside from you) has ever complained. Perhaps I should only hang out in the part of the forum meant for "inexperienced" people. Since when is the word behavior indicative of something inherently negative? I was just saying that you and somedude have a general view about women and dating that I dont particularly agree with. And I think those views would change with more experience.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 No need to be snippy and facetious because i speak the truth. Facetious yes. Snippy no. You don't speak the truth Steve.
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Since when is the word behavior indicative of something inherently negative? I was just saying that you and somedude have a general view about women and dating that I dont particularly agree with. And I think those views would change with more experience. Maybe. But, it's not likely that we'll be testing this hypothesis anytime soon.
Emilia Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Women who have no confidence and do whatever I want are not sexy. I like being called a smart ass and told no occasionally. smart ass No! sit down 3
Mrlonelyone Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I read, I think it was on OK cupid, that people toss out generalized gender expectations when they describe who they want to date. Things like a man has to be confident, alpha, etc. Then, when it comes to who they actually date those gender expectations go out the window. Take Woddy Allen for example. He has been in LTR's with attractive women and he's anything but the macho stereotype. Furthermore, guys, think of the women you found most attractive. Were they confident with an age appropriate level of worldly success? Were they wearing rags and begging for loose change? If you sit back and think about it, they were women with a good level of social status. The popular girl in school, the single woman that all the single men were gunning for in the office etc. The bottom line of social interactions, especially romance, in humans is all about social status. No relationship exist in a vacuum. Everyone wants to be known and liked. One quick way to get that is to date someone who's already known and liked. If you are unknown and or despised well your going to have a hard time finding a date. 1
Disenchantedly Yours Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 smart ass No! sit down She told you Gaius. 1
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I don't change them either but I am going to make sure that she is right for me before I take her as she is. You can't quickly test that. As time goes on I make sure that her actions and words match up. What does loyalty have to do with confidence? Some guys like confidence in a woman, but I think most of us don't really value that much as a trait. I value loyalty and I believe most guys would agree with me on that... it's just impossible to test for that up front. So, the OP of this thread is supposing that men have a super low bar set for dating while women have all these upfront requirements... top one being confidence. I believe it appears that way to some guys, because for men we are much more willing to give anything a try... but much more picky when making lasting choices. Most non-physical guy criteria takes a long time to determine. Women can bring their shopping list and have half the boxes checked by the end of date 1. It takes time too for sure.... but traits like honesty really take a long time to figure out. I'm sure when you met the right one, you were happy to "take her as she is." The differences here is that the person who posted that phrase initially in this thread meant, I believe, that all a woman has to do is have that chromosome configuration and its concurrent secondary sexual characteristics and she'll be A-Okay for "men." Maybe for a few. I've known lots of guys with the attitude... "you bring the vagina and I will bring everything else".
ascendotum Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I know many and I can almost guarantee that most people here do as well. I know many who are and many who put on a front. Some are brash for some of the month and insecure for part of the month. I guess OP's beef is that many women who lack confidence don't want their equivalent when it comes to a man. OP - Pretty much what SC80 said is your answer. The trend wont change, you just need to get with the program. Give those sublimimal 'you too can have confidence' cds a whirl. You too can seek confidence in a woman, like the ones who have the confidence to show off her figure in a short dress & tight top.
Negative Nancy Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 while women on the other hand who are not socially retarded are good to go for most men. No,they're not. They have to be pretty / hot.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Take Woddy Allen for example. He has been in LTR's with attractive women and he's anything but the macho stereotype. Woody Allen is rich and famous. Also, massive drug use helped him a lot.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Woody Allen is rich and famous. Also, massive drug use helped him a lot. His massive drug use or theirs?
Mrlonelyone Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Woody Allen is rich and famous. Also, massive drug use helped him a lot. Even before the was rich and famous. Of course he was also a director. If someone didn't know who he was he would just be some mousy meek little man. I've known lots of guys with the attitude... "you bring the vagina and I will bring everything else". Ladies pay attention to this. Lots of men think just like this and say so when they are in the company of men. I would guess 1/5 to 3/4's of all heterosexual men would gladly support a woman who had no personality, or life, if they looked good enough and gave them good sex. (See the definition of trophy wife). 1
Hopeful30 Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 i think because a woman doesnt need to be confident to get a guy (they focus more on her looks) but a woman needs a confident man because looks arent enough for her
jakelongot Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 women on the whole are less confident than men. You think you are afraid to approach? How many times has a woman approached you and started flirting or trying to get your number? Probably very few. It isn't just the social conditioning of guys should approach...women are actually scared to death to be embarrassed in a public setting (how about that for a confidence boost guys). That being said, the women that are on the far end of the spectrum in terms of confidence are not bringing home a lot of men or getting a lot of attention, so don't pretend like every shy girl is getting laid.
Negative Nancy Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 Ladies pay attention to this. Lots of men think just like this and say so when they are in the company of men. I would guess 1/5 to 3/4's of all heterosexual men would gladly support a woman who had no personality, or life, if they looked good enough and gave them good sex. (See the definition of trophy wife). Yeah, no doubt about it, who would have thought. Doesn't really come as a surprise, yet people call me bitter and jaded when posts like this one simply prove over and over again that the accurate description for my attitude would be "realistic" instead.
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