tough love Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 You are correct. It is your life. You do as you see fit. But I see you coming back in a year or even a few months with some major resentment issues. I already have resentment issues and have pretty much said so. I am trying to heal from that and she is doing her part to rebuild that trust. Maybe I will be back in a year or months still resentful, but I sure as hell hope not. Hopefully, I can give someone else going through something similar some useful advice and hope, with a success story. I have read other threads that did have a happy ending and hope and think mine will have a happy ending as well.
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I already have resentment issues and have pretty much said so. I am trying to heal from that and she is doing her part to rebuild that trust. Maybe I will be back in a year or months still resentful, but I sure as hell hope not. Hopefully, I can give someone else going through something similar some useful advice and hope, with a success story. I have read other threads that did have a happy ending and hope and think mine will have a happy ending as well. I hope it's a happy ending. I really do! I just think your W CAN offer to restore YOUR peace of mind by DOING certain things. Will she do hypnosis, a polygraph and/or contact that person who would remember the details from that time? If she won't - then she's just telling you to stuff your pain down deep and forget it = which is totally NOT HEALTHY FOR YOU TO HEAL and get past this long ago betrayal but recent bout of lies. IS SHE DOING ALL SHE CAN to restore your trust? It's really hard to forgive when you have no idea what all you're TRYING to forgive... She MUST know that... HOW does she REALLY expect YOU to trust again IF she isn't willing to go to ANY and ALL lengths to provide you with the truth you've always wondered about (for 21 years!) How would SHE feel if you had presented HER with this lie all these years later and still didn't provide the info she NEEDED to begin healing? I think these are very valid points that SHE should be capable of answering!
tough love Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 If all these things are true it does not make the betrayal any better but it does say she has done her best to live a good life with a man she adores. If she is telling the truth and you were in her shoes what would you say? how would you react? She did this thing 21 years ago and has spend a entire marriage trying to atone for it. We seem to utterly disregard that she could be telling 100% of the truth then whats left, do people have to spend every minute of the rest of thier lives reliving a bad decision. If she stops minimizing ,by your standard, all she can say is I am a horrible person, he gets to agree, now everything she has done since that day is the lie. how do you think she will feel after that. I think at that point many people would say "why am i here if I am so horrible?" He does not have to forgive her but if she is telling the truth she is not a bad person by my lights ther arent enough good mothers and wives to throw them out for decades old mistakes, and I wish them all the happyness they can get. Thank you! We really never argued or fought until now, in the 21 years we've been together. So, it hasn't been all bad and I do recognize that. I am not willing to throw what we have away without one heck of a fight! I appreciate your positive comments and well wishes, along with those of anne1701, eleanorhurting, pteromom and the others I am missing. There are also some others that have been BS that have given some useful info. and that is appreciated too.
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 my advice to the OP and her husband is to get out of this site right now! You are in counseling and you should continue to work on this very hard complicated and fragile issue with someone who is a professional not with people who are commenting here without knowing who you are and without having any qualifications to do so. Good luck with everything. You seem to make assumptions here that no one has "qualifications" to help. That's a big leap without knowing your information.
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 You seem to make assumptions here that no one has "qualifications" to help. That's a big leap without knowing your information. Like it or not we all read these threads and give our opinions based upon our own personal experiences. Some of us have gone through similar experience if not worse, so our advice is somewhat bias. None of us, to my knowledge are licensed therapists. The O/P is the one who has to live in his own skin. This is fact. I get emotional because I read his story and I truly feel sorry that he had to go through something like that. I can admit that. He sounds like a good man who was dealt a sh*tty hand. I just cannot understand for the life of me how he can forgive something like that. But that is just one person, me. More assumptions. Ok... If that works for you. For anyone to feel get about themselves (or even good about themselves) it involves NOT betraying self. Yet the H here betrayed himself many years ago when he didn't "trust his gut" because he KNEW he suspected "something wasn't right. Now - all these years later - she's still not willing to give him the peace of mind he deserves from someone he loves and the person who states loves him. IF he doesn't do everything to TOTALLY understand what happened - he will still feel as though he's CONTINUING to betray himself. That isn't a good place to be - especially IF trust is being RESTORED!
Cb3657 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Just a married man who knows how much marriage and family brings to my life. I also feel I have seen enough human nature to stay off high horses. I would not live with a cheating spouse but this is not the case here. I know some would like to think all sins are equal, all wrongs are evil and all evildoers must be punished. This is simply not my view. I will not trade insults with you folks, go on and live your lives by your rules I think the world will continue to be a very disapointing place for you to live in.
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Yeah only someone who has actually cheated on their spouse would give that kind of advice. Is this an attempt to undermine the validity of my post? Or just a personal attack? This is not the first time you have brought my past history into a thread. When people come on this forum, they dont dictate the input that is given to them. Agreed - so why you do you try to as good as tell the OP's husband not to listen to me. It is not me who is attempting to dicate Only cheaters will give the sugar coated advice. Well here is mine: If you want something sugarcoated = go eat a donut. Did I give sugar-coated advice? No, not at all. When I have ever posted advice on reconciliations, I have always made it clear that it is hard work and you both need to be absolutely committed to the process I know some refuse to believe it but it is possible to reconcile a marriage and for it to be happy and strong again.
nofool4u Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 At some point you are going to just have to let it go. I agree, ONLY if he feels he has the complete truth and things don't still seem odd to him. He only has to "let it go" if she has put 100% effort into assuring him of his concerns. But everything happens for a reason. Maybe if she had told you, you would have broken up. So you advocate lying out of fear of losing someone, and denying someone the choice of how their life turns out? Maybe you would have still loved her, but just needed some time apart to heal. That is a possible outcome, but that should have been HIS choice, not hers. And maybe during that breakup, she might have confided in a male friend and ended up falling in love with him. Oh well. And maybe that would have sent your lives into completely different trajectories. So because their lives could turn out differently, that lying is a good option? If my x-wife would have had the guts to tell me instead of fearing I would break off the engagement, my life would have certainly turned out different, and would have had to have been much better if she had given me the respect of letting me decide how my life turns out. Maybe she would be in an abusive marriage, and maybe you would be on your third marriage to serial-cheating women, and maybe neither of you would be happy. Maybe, this, maybe that. We can guess as to how their lives would turn out. Bottom line, he had no control over his own destiny. If she would have told him, he could have dealt with it then, instead of now, and who knows, he might have forgiven her and he wouldn't be going through this right now. 1
nofool4u Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Here's another thing, if she says she's having a hard time remembering "details", Yeah, RIGHT! She remembers EVERYTHING! Women always do! She doesn't want to "HURT" you anymore, that's the reason for not disclosing everything to you! I have to agree with this and this is why TL doesn't feel he is getting the full truth. She remembers, she just is too embarrassed to tell. 3
nofool4u Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Boy does this thread feel like a witch hunt Hammerhill and Tough Love I can completely understand why you are no longer posting in this thread and if you are reading it, I suggest you stop now. It seems to me that the two of you are talking to each other and both want to make things work - don't let yourself be jaded by opinions of others. You both decide what you both want to do. If you are both prepared to do the work, you can get through this together. I usually am the toughest on cheaters. I see this situation as different, and I am just coming from the point of view as someone who was in toughlove's position(although my wife was cheating during the marriage). So I think this marriage will survive, but hammermill needs to stop the continued lying and saying she doesn't remember details. Unless the guy slipped her a roofie, she remembers.
pteromom Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I wish I knew what I needed to hear, really. What I don't need to hear is it was only a 10 min. mistake that happened 21 years ago that meant nothing and wasn't a big deal. I NEED honesty above anything, which I thought I had for the past 21 years. Turns out that wasn't the case. I NEED to know that I have ALL the truth about that night I NEED for this to not be minimized by her and to acknowledge that she DID cheat me of making an informed life choice, whether it meant we stayed together or went our separate ways. You say you wish you knew what you needed to hear, and then you spelled out very clearly exactly what you need to hear. OP - you hear that? This is what he needs from you to begin healing.
pteromom Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I have tremendous respect for you as a poster (it is clear you have a good heart) but I don't know your background and I have to disagree with your post. When it comes to infidelity, encouraging a betrayed spouse in any way to "let it go" just a few months after Dday is unreasonable. Why is the onus on the BS to get over it? He didn't ask for this. He doesn't want to be this way. But her actions have caused it. Why does he have to choke down the sh/t sandwich he was served in silence? If he vomits and some gets on her, it's her own damn fault. It takes years to heal. It's no exaggeration. There is nothing she can "say." It's her actions that created his doubt. It's only consistent actions over time that recreate trust. There is nothing she can say and there should be no pressure on him to get over it. When she busts him in the mouth, she doesn't get to say how long he can bleed. Hi - I understand exactly what you are saying. I hope I didn't come across as pressuring him to let it go. What I was trying to ask was what he needed to hear from her to begin healing so he can get to the point where he can let it go. It was obvious to me he was "stuck", and when he answered my question, it was obvious WHY he was stuck. He needs her NOT to minimize it, and to understand that it is a big deal to him. His post articulates very well exactly what he needs. I do agree with you that time rebuilds trust. This is a different situation than yours though, in which your wife had a long-term affair. This couple have 21 years of faithfulness together. And YES, the husband will need some time to realize that those 21 years were real and she really WAS faithful and loyal that whole time, but assuming she is telling the truth that it was a one-time thing before they were married, I don't think it will take them years to get past this.
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 You say you wish you knew what you needed to hear, and then you spelled out very clearly exactly what you need to hear. OP - you hear that? This is what he needs from you to begin healing. Yet - his W is still willing to play the "I don't remember" card. THAT is what the problem is here! She COULD tap into resources to "remember" IF she was "willing"... I have issues with her "with holding her info". Same as she did 21 years ago. Nothing loving about THAT - that's why this is difficult to believe... She could be providing solutions - will she offer up hypnosis and polygraph solutions?
pteromom Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Yet - his W is still willing to play the "I don't remember" card. THAT is what the problem is here! She COULD tap into resources to "remember" IF she was "willing"... I have issues with her "with holding her info". Same as she did 21 years ago. Nothing loving about THAT - that's why this is difficult to believe... She could be providing solutions - will she offer up hypnosis and polygraph solutions? I have no idea. I know that *I* have a few encounters in my past I don't remember details from. Some are due to drinking and others are due to actively trying to forget. LOL I don't know if she really doesn't remember or not, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility. What is hypnosis and polygraph going to prove? If she's hypnotized and remembers that the guy had an awesome penis and moves like Jagger, would that really HEAL anything here? I do think she should share the whole truth. If it was really more than 10 minutes or if she saw the guy more than once or if there is more to the story, he should know about it. But I don't think knowing every detail is going to help fix anything. It just gives more images to obsess over.
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Anne, I am sorry that post was not directed at you. Sorry if you took offense to that. It was more of a general statement. Again, I am sorry if you felt that was directed towards you. It was not my intention in the least. Again that was not directed at you. A lo of people create threads then dismiss the advice when given to them, then say well this is my thread if you dont have anything nice to say then get out. That is the way I meant it. Not targeting you. Apology accepted Alex - and thank you
BetrayedH Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Hi - I understand exactly what you are saying. I hope I didn't come across as pressuring him to let it go. What I was trying to ask was what he needed to hear from her to begin healing so he can get to the point where he can let it go. It was obvious to me he was "stuck", and when he answered my question, it was obvious WHY he was stuck. He needs her NOT to minimize it, and to understand that it is a big deal to him. His post articulates very well exactly what he needs. I do agree with you that time rebuilds trust. This is a different situation than yours though, in which your wife had a long-term affair. This couple have 21 years of faithfulness together. And YES, the husband will need some time to realize that those 21 years were real and she really WAS faithful and loyal that whole time, but assuming she is telling the truth that it was a one-time thing before they were married, I don't think it will take them years to get past this. Much appreciated. And yes, his situation is different. I might even have a tendency to agree that they have a better shot than many. He seems convinced that she has been faithful since. It does surprise me that he is so confident. My wife got away with 13 months right under my nose. This girls has had 21 years, has a tendency towards TT, and "doesn't remember" stuff. No matter how intoxicated, I would remember every detail for years if I had cheater and hidden it. I don't buy that. It's a standard WS line right out of the handbook. Ultimately, the problem is the lying and again, that wasn't 21 years ago. I would still guess at years to rebuild trust in her word. I get the impression that the H is rugsweeping and I tried that, too. Regardless, appreciate your clarification. We're not that far off from one another. The H needs what HE needs, not what I would need. It's a valid point. 1
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I agree with pteromom The OP definitely needs to be completely open and honest with her husband and answer all his questions. However I do genuinely believe that she may really be struggling to remember all the details. If it was a 10 minute encounter 20 years ago, then detailed memories of it will quite possibly fade. It is for her husband to then decide whether he believes his wife is being truthful. It is such a shame that something that could have been treated as nothing/minor hiccup if disclosed at the time has been allowed to become a huge issue because of the lack of immediate disclosure. 1
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 "Nothing/minor hiccup?" Do you not understand that the reason that the OP lied about her cheating in the first place, then throughout the marriage, was because she understood it was such a violation of trust, as to quite possibly result in the end of the relationship, had she divulged this information? Why do I keep on need reminding that people who have cheated seem to have this default notion that f8cking the wrong person is just a "minor hiccup"? Did you not read my post???? If she had disclosed straight away then this may have been easily dealt with - that is all that I said. After all, they had only just begun dating. I also said that the failure to be honest has resulted in a huge problem.
pteromom Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I would remember every detail for years if I had cheater and hidden it. I don't buy that. It's a standard WS line right out of the handbook. I can't speak for you, only for myself. I had a few years where I was quite wild in my 20s. There are a few encounters I truly DON'T remember details about. There was one guy - I don't remember his name, but we met at a party and hit it off, and he asked me out. I do not remember where we went, but I know we went back to his place, because I have ONE memory of him on top of me in his room and I remember that it was really HOT in there (as in temp-wise, not in sexy-wise LOL). I don't remember anything else. And I wasn't drinking. I can't remember his face. I don't remember his name. I can't remember anything else we did that day or how we even got to the point where we were having sex. So it is possible to just FORGET details. And in her case, since it was something that carried a great deal of guilt for her, it would make sense to try to erase the memory completely. She certainly wouldn't be reliving it over and over in her head for years. (I have a few things in my past that fall in that category too! ) It's possible she does remember. It's possible she is lying and has been cheating on him over and over throughout their entire relationship. It's ALSO possible she is telling the complete truth and she has been faithful other than the one time, and she really doesn't remember details of that encounter. It's really up to her husband to determine. 1
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I have no idea. I know that *I* have a few encounters in my past I don't remember details from. Some are due to drinking and others are due to actively trying to forget. LOL I don't know if she really doesn't remember or not, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility. What is hypnosis and polygraph going to prove? If she's hypnotized and remembers that the guy had an awesome penis and moves like Jagger, would that really HEAL anything here? I do think she should share the whole truth. If it was really more than 10 minutes or if she saw the guy more than once or if there is more to the story, he should know about it. But I don't think knowing every detail is going to help fix anything. It just gives more images to obsess over. Nope. It gives her H an idea of what he's REALLY trying to (or EXPECTED TO) forgive. They could also contact her room mate and ask what she knows! There's another resource for her truth. 1
nofool4u Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Did you not read my post???? If she had disclosed straight away then this may have been easily dealt with - that is all that I said. After all, they had only just begun dating. I also said that the failure to be honest has resulted in a huge problem. I think he took issue simply with the idea that cheating can be considered as a "minor hiccup". Unless the betrayed party simply doesn't care about a whole lot, there is nothing minor about cheating. I agree it may have been able to have been dealt with on an easier level for both of them, but the cheating itself isn't minor and IMO, indicates a character flaw(yes, I know this happened when she was a 19yo adult.) 1
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 It;s not the 10 minute mistake that bothers me as much as the lies for 21 years and knowing that I had always said I would rather know about being cheated on than being played Straight from the husband's mouth - he would have been able to deal with things at the time if the OP had been honest.
2sunny Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Anne - referring to the cheating AND subsequent and CONTINUAL lies is a far cry froma MINOR HICCUP!!! It's NOT just her lack of immediate disclosure - its her HUGE character flaw of the CONTINUED LIES - and lack of respect to her H forNOT being HONEST with him - and THAT has affected the marriage and what he THOUGHT he had! He no longer has a wife whos been HONEST. Sheis not the woman he TOUGHT she COULD be! THAT is a REAL problem! 1
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 I think he took issue simply with the idea that cheating can be considered as a "minor hiccup". A "minor hiccup" compared to 20 years of happy marriage. They had only been dating a couple of months so the boundaries would be different to those expected in a marriage.
anne1707 Posted August 27, 2012 Posted August 27, 2012 Anne - referring to the cheating AND subsequent and CONTINUAL lies is a far cry froma MINOR HICCUP!!! It's NOT just her lack of immediate disclosure - its her HUGE character flaw of the CONTINUED LIES - and lack of respect to her H forNOT being HONEST with him - and THAT has affected the marriage and what he THOUGHT he had! He no longer has a wife whos been HONEST. Sheis not the woman he TOUGHT she COULD be! THAT is a REAL problem! I absolutely did not say that the continual lies were a minor hiccup - the complete opposite in fact. Please go back and re-read my post.
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